I would say that if you're not managing to get the minimum of 0.001 some major pool still have, that's 30$ in let's say two months it's likely you're not making a profit either so you would be better
- dumping the miner on eBay for a few $, people will buy any kind of s&^% and use those to buy some satoshi
- if you don't care about losing money, noise, or heat, you could simply go solo and hope on the jackpot

You missed the biology class, right?
First no, there are whales that eat fish, there are whales that squid, and while everyone called them dolphins both killer whales and sperm whales are also a part of the toothed whale order. And as the name suggests those things kill everything from sharks to other whales.


Of course, it won't because it's just a rip-off from HODL, nothing more.

Anyhow, the term whale was not invented by crypto lovers, it's a term borrowed from gambling as that's one of the first things that really took off with crypto and it's about being a high roller. you can check the forum yourself, before 2012 nearly all the talk about whales was about the animal itself.

I agree on what you say but I was just focusing on this exact case, in which we have no clue of the source and even if it were green and all the energy would be green, the way he does it by driving and then using batteries simply wasteful, probably close to 20% waste of electricity compared to a traditional home-based setup.


It's just for some tesla models, and yes it will last quite a while for the ones who've got it, it will end only if you sell it or you destroy the car
https://www.findmyelectric.com/blog/tesla-free-unlimited-supercharging-how-to-check-if-you-have-it/


Not fake, it started as one guy doing something unheard of and then some taking advantage of cheap energy, although for an ASIC mining is really not such a breakthrough because of the overall huge consumption it would make you travel to the station every 4 hours.

Anyhow, this was debated a few times, including in another topic, and the first event is from 2017
https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-mining-bitcoin-model-s-supercharger-power/

And for everyone thinking of doing so, let me quote myself again:

It depends on the game, till 2009 a lot of my college friends were still playing Diablo 2 on an unofficial server, full 9 years after the release, and let's not even go to the details like the 640 resolution of the game. Good games will never die, people still play age of empires.


The devil is in the details, ML achieved 70 million monthly players, which makes it 3$ per year per player. How are you going to attract people to get paid from that, ignoring the cost for the one thousand strong team developing an actual game, not some jpg animations and server costs?


I was aiming for it to be more like a topic about a socio-economic movement, as this is the new trend where people think they should get paid for everything, for walking, for playing, for watching tv and of course, nobody cares who is going to pay them for that and why?
I did have some heated discussions with a few of my friends or others on more private forums and I'm always telling some of them, sometimes in a nice way, sometimes in a more abrupt one, who the hell do you think you are and why the hell should somebody pay a dime for your data when you're an unemployed &^% that barely makes it month to month by doing black market seasonal jobs?

We're entering an era of the "Give me money for everything cause I'm entitled to!".

So you're a partner of Bimain or Bitmain?


Second:
What's with the covid certificates and the speaker certificates and why is not your company name on it and why do you even had them on your website?

Third:
Why do you use stock and photoshopped pictures for your office?
https://archive.ph/4pcTU
https://theshopcity.com/about-all/cotton-head-office-cotton-on-corporate-offices-headquarters-phone-address.html

Fourth:
Do you really have an address at 123 N Sunset Ave, City of Industry, CA 91744, and why, when you claim you're offering shipping only from China and Kuala Lumpur and you have no business license here?

Bruh, what? The EU is the net exporter of food, seriously, where do you get this idea?
Let's assume you have ignored by previous post and the links in it, what does the EU import in such quantities, coffee, bananas, and macadamia nuts?

Top wheat importers:
https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=wheat&graph=imports
Scanning for European countries....27   United Kingdom, 66   Switzerland   500   ....
Top wheat importers:
Scanning for European countries
https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=wheat&graph=exports
2   EU-27   36,000    lol? Lol?
Chicken meat exports?
3   EU-27   1,800   
Beef?
6   EU-27   685   
Pig meat? And don't you dare touch this subject!!! 
1   EU-27   4,750   

So what do we import so much?  Oh, the famous sunflower oil, which..is not that much used in Europe actually, because well, Italians and with their diet, nordic and central with fat cooking, and the rest with rapeseed oil, which again!! we export a ton of it!



That's true Putin has managed to unite the whole of Europe better than ever.
The army has become so scared of the warmongers pushing them to dos stupid things that finally, Kremlin has given the green light to Khodarenok to come in prime time on Russian state TV and tell them Russia can't fight another war,  telling again and again, each day things they don't want to hear

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1523036461595242498
https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1526329765065539592

Those were two shows one week apart, just thinking that not only he didn't commit suicide by shooting himself 100 times in the back with three different weapons but he came back, pushed in the show by the higher and he simply doesn't give a fuck it's clear what's happening.
The writing is on the wall, we have accomplished our mission despite this not being our original mission and we have done so despite fighting the entire world, so we will just retreat behind our borders since that's what patriotism means, defending the country.  This is Hitler 2.0, we have successfully retreated back to defend the fatherland! 


And ignoring the fact that Canada and Germany make 1/3 of that production and while Germany and Spain produce 7% of it, Europe only needs to feed 1/20 of the world.

How is this green mining?
First, the source of energy comes from somewhere, if it's oil or gas it's definitely not green and if it somehow winds or hydro the station would get the same energy as your house 1 kilometer down the road, so you could simply mine at home.

Second, the waste
- you have to drive your car to the charging station, which means you're wasting electricity, not green
- charging wastes electricity as you fill the batteries, there is no 100% transfer of energy, a round number would be 10%, again not green

So no, there is nothing green about it and it's just one guy wasting tons of electricity because he affords to do so, as vapourminer said, a few of Tesla's clients got a free lifetime supercharger when they bought their car.

 

Gate.io announcement was on the 10th
https://www.gate.io/article/26475
Terra's blockchain stopped on the 12th
https://twitter.com/terra_money/status/1524785058296778752

You knew of those issues and yet you still went to deposit despite all of those risks two days later, you checked the price and despite the warning that is even on that trading page and now you blame them for what?


The thing is, do we know for sure this didn't happen?

I know stuff in the US is pretty weird sometimes with all those checks and stuff but fees for withdrawing cash from an ATM?
Here in Europe, we've had zero fees for cash withdrawal at the ATM oned by your banks for like a decade and with my card, I can withdraw at any national bank with zero fees up to 10k euros a month.


People don't keep using them, some use the non-KYC ones to avoid taxation and some try an ATM for the first time as a novelty or to dump some cash into bitcoin because they had a good feeling the moment they passed by it. So I feel it's more like a souvenir shop client base than a normal soda vending machine for example.

I think this :
https://fcd.terra.dev/v1/circulatingsupply/luna
still works, was 6533024440477 got updated to 6533026628706 and then 6533027424422
so, it's still inflating.

Coingecko is best at finding these as it links directly to the sources, unlike CMC.

So the whole plan would have to be put starting completely the opposite way, first get a really good game that people enjoy then try to monetize the game, not advertise it as a money-making machine and then think about the mechanics of the game.
While in theory, I would agree with this approach, you might have another problem down the road
Nearly 70% of gamers hate NFTs, or the Ubisoft fiasco.

A game can't survive without its fan base and if you push that to the limit you might end with nothing.


Live yeah, on a smaller scale but the hype is gone, or at least I think so.


That's an excuse for control and for printing money, they could make payments via LN as cheap as possible and again, the need for the blockchain is not there in the actual game mechanics,  you have to trap your users in an ecosystem they can't get easy out of this and that's why those tokens are there.


I don't think people get bored with these methods, in my opinion, the main drawback is that the method isn't working anymore.

Revolutionize?
An exchange offering referrals and issuing invoices is a "revolutionary" step?

But the name did sound familiar, the fake youtube video reviews and the , right?

When it comes to Coinsource, the ones that are providing the ATMs it's even worse:

https://www.coinsource.net/faqs


So you can't even try to fool it once or twice by buying two beers the guys loitering around the stores or any other trick, you need a full verified account that will track all your purchases.

And surprisingly Terra still has a market cap of 1.1 billion, with about 6 trillion coins printed, price is $0.0001 right now, basically, they could just print a quadrillion and even if it goes to $0.0000001 they would still be worth 1 billion.
But I love the warning on CMC:




Yeah, quite volatile indeed. Even the EKG of a zombie would be more animated!


The problem is that Luna is doing some real digging after this fall, soon to reach the inner core and burn up in flames.
But you could give us some examples of coins that have fallen from 100$ to one hundred of a cent and recovered since we're unaware of these miracles.!

Yeah definitely.
So the first step will be for you to throw your computer out of the window, buy a pigeon from a pigeon breeder, make your own paper from cotton you've bought from a farmer, I won't suggest anything naughty for the pen, and then send us your post via carrier pigeon. You see, for only this you've created a ton of jobs, if 3000 people will be reading this, you would need at least 1000 pigeons, a ton of paper and ink, and then think of us replying! We would need millions of workers.

Or a better idea, let's have all the oil in the world transported by camels. At 100 million barrels a day and considering a round trip of 30 days just imagine how many jobs would be created to take care of 3 billion camels, not even mentioning the wood and carpenters needed for another 1 million replicas of Noah's ark.

We had 1 million telephone operators in the 50s in the US alone, think of all the lamplighters that had to quit their job, and the ridiculous examples can continue over and over. Europe currently needs millions of workers and not all of them are skilled, you still need tons of mechanics, construction workers, butchers,  retail personnel, cleaning, and so on and on.

But more important, is that you again spy100?  

Two small things first before I start making my arguments about this:
- I put the title "pay to play" instead of the "pay to work" I will refer further down not to make it confusing for readers
- I'm a bitcoin maximalist so I'm obviously biased against tokens and altcoins, deal with it! 
LE: Title update to make sure we're talking about blockchain model games


The model:
First I must point out that games that have described themselves as "play to earn" have existed long before the blockchain, it was either by viewing ads through the game or selling resources in-game or on an afar larger scale and for deals outside the game simply farming the shit out of gold or items and selling those to other players. So the idea is not new at all, the only thing special about it is some buzzwords like NFT and Blockchain, as for the games, are still some lame ass copies of more famous games with no actual revolutioanry technology behind them.

The free to pay entry
This is the main problem with all these games since they have to attract users by rewarding them and then need also an entry point, it's all you can eat but with an entry fee so that not only some might lose money on it but you also keep some desperate people motivated to click endlessly each day to recover the loses. So, at this point, it's not as much play to earn but work your ass to not be in red.

The work part
The game I will mention a few times axie infinity considers itself some pokemon clone, of course with nothing other than having some characters fight. Actually quite funny, pokemon go creatures don't breed in the game at all. So while comparing itself to famous games it lacks one thing, innovation, and it has tons of another, called repetition. And this is where the two models completely cut ties, while gamers on the pokemon side play when they want how much they want, walking eggs to hatch for miles if they have the lungs and legs for it,  in play to work models you're restricted, because, well, it would mean too much money printed. And this is where you completely cut the link between a fun game that has millions of users coming out of their houses in the rain to fight gyms or 5-star raids with millions desperate to sell their tokens as high as possible.

The failing revenue model
And this is the part that is most interesting.
Somehow users new to the cryptocurrency scene think that everything that has currency and decentralization and other bling words will gain value out of thin air and stay like that forever. Probably the 100 to 0 Luna fail might have taught some a lesson but I doubt the majority will indeed understand.

Pay to work apps like axie have a simple revenue model for their users, I will play a bit with the numbers to make it easier, not for accuracy reasons. You have 10 guys trying to start work, they have to pay 500$ for a good team in order to work. For them to earn back their money those 5000$ have to come out somewhere! Money doesn't magically get printed and if it does it turn to 1$=1c luna style.
Ona linear scale this would be sustainable, the first 10 guys invite other 10 guys who pay 500 each, and the next invite other 10 so if the model would really work like that it would be sustainable but the problem arises when somebody is making 50 000 and others are desperate for 50$.
The second problem is that after recouping your investment, in order to earn you have to make more than that, so again with the 10 user model, they have to make at least 100$ a month to make it worth it, which means they need 2 more guys for each user each year for that. Every new user regenerates this way the need for 2 paying players, and here it starts looking like the MLM scheme its actually is.

With currently 3 million players in the game for each to make some 100$ a month you would need 300 million influx each month, now assuming you would find 3 new million players willing to pay 100$, oh now you have 6 million players wanting money.The result?

The failed control
Our entire history is filled with examples of how we managed to lose control over currencies and how fixing them lead to more disastrous events. Every time you try to prop a currency without taking a look at the basics you either postpone the catastrophe or make it happen faster.
And here is the perfect example of a failed patch


To stop the failure of the token, they did cut the supply, but cutting the supply while still printing money isn't fixing a thing if you have more outflow than you still print. And of course, the consequences when you print less money is that you have less money to give out, which again, has consequences like the numbers of players dropping, fewer players coming to the game so less money inflow, or in short a spiral of death.

The Con Patch
There is also another way to try to prop out the falling ruin, and this is rebranding. Rebranding has always the advantage of luring some fools into these new schemes because they have learned one less, the first in Ponzi schemes and MLM schemes are the ones with a chance of getting some money for real, so simply print some other jpgs and sell some virtual plot lands to try and balance the money flow. Of course, it helps short term but long term it suffers from the same drawbacks and you end up with two problems instead of one.

The need for a token.
This is the reason why I mentioned bitcoin maximalism.
Why would any game need its own token if it's a play to earn and obvious all the earnings will be converted into either BTC or ETH and then used to pay in $ for things. There is no need for those tokens, every single game out there could simply run with a database or if they would absolutely want to use a blockchain, a blockchain doesn't need to have a currency on it.
The only real need for the specific token is far away from decentralization, it's about initial money-grabbing and absolute control over it.

So, what's your opinion, will the "play to earn' model really work or at least survive?

More sources for both the info I've posted and for further reading, if you're interested in other's opinion
Play-to-earn sells the dream of gaming for cash — so why isn’t everyone playing?
Axie Infinity Daily Active Users Drop 45% Since 2021 Peak
Axie Infinity Making Big Changes to Fix Its Ailing Play-to-Earn NFT Economy

I don't believe any of those tweets.
How were they even confirmed, if they would have made their last testimony before we would have seen them if there were suicide letters left the same?  Also, the tweet came on the 11, and the crash started on the 9th, even if we assume somebody would have done so the next day when Luna went down to 20$ from 100$ I don't see police confirming the cause of suicide 24 hours after. And again, we would have seen those police reports.

Besides, and here is my turn on just supposition, I don't think people who were accustomed to crypto and played with large sums would have so harshly decided to commit suicide, if this might happen and I don't deny some might, it will take a lot of time before it when there is like zero hope and all the doors are closed.


Unfortunately, this is a bit more complicated case, when some people who were not greedy got burned hard, and those were the ones that hold UST, which would be quite ironic if not tragic, since they were simply trying to (assumption), avoid market volatility and stay safe. The ones that simply exited the market and bought ust just so they would not have to follow the prices during a holiday or a vacation and two days later saw their accounts drop by 20% can't be really blamed for anything other than, let's say gullibility at most.

But even if we cut those numbers to 5 to round it up to 10 million, there is a problem, you also need to replace old homes that are at the end of their lifespan, and when looking at what google tells me, the average age is 46, so roughly would mean you need to restock 1% each year, or about another 20% on top of those 10 million in the last two decades.

And I've not included disasters which, and this was a shock for me, destroy tons of houses, nearly 50k because of fires each year. As a European who has only seen concrete, stone, and brick houses I've never understood this whole wooden house thing. I simply couldn't live in one of them. That being said, I'm not a fan of towers either, communist blocks of the flat were a monstrosity I want to forget, and anything that would be more comfortable, insulated, spacious, and so on and on will cost a ton more.

Either way, if somebody hopes that housing prices will go down drastically in the US or Europe they are going to have to wait, a lot!

How do you even compare the scarcity of those two things?
It's one BTC against a ton of gold, a kilo an ounce, or a milligram of gold against one satoshi?
What is scarcer, 0.002 BTC or 300 grams per living human?

Also, I find it weird to mention the remaining supply, for gold is ~20% and for Bitcoin is ~10%, that's not such a huge difference, and if we talk about lost coins, shouldn't we take about lost gold also? Tons of jewelry are lost each year, gold that can't be recycled after being used in components, or is simply not worth recycling due to the quantities.

I never understood this competition between bitcoin and gold, each has its own pro and cons, bitcoin does a lot of things better than gold but at the same time, it can't be used in tens of cases where gold simply rules. If it weren't like that gold wouldn't be worth a penny now, but, well, it does!

I think they are trying too hard to make a  point and miss on the essentials.
They focus on a few cases that are over evaluated by ( their scoring) 50% and just between the lines mentioned that large cities are usually just 10% over evaluated, and most of them are missing from that fancy map. It's a bit misleading o focus on 30k population towns and ignore metro areas in the size of millions, if you look at the map White Plains is just 7% over and Oakland is 6% why not tell the numbers on the latest metropolis? Maybe because it's less spectacular than any research needs to be right now.

That aside, the US population in 2000 was 282,2 million now is 329,5 million a growth of 47,3 million, that's nearly New York and Texas combined, but only around 1 million houses per year were built on average in the last decade, so what do you expect? And let's not forget it's always one house per family, some have much more than that.