Two things I disagree with.


This is a bit of a misconception.
If the citizen of each state sells a coin to some other citizen, the amount of money overall in the said country stays the same, you buying a BTC for 100$ and then selling it for 60k means that this has changed:
John had 1 bitcoin, you had 100$, I had 60k, now John has 100$, you have 60k, I have one BTC, as bitcoin doesn't produce money out of thin air.

For sure it will tax you for your gains but if it weren't for BTC I would have spent those 60k on something else, maybe a car, and the state would still have got the tax on vat and on annual tax and road tax and gas tax ...and tax and tax!

If now the value of the coin has reached extraordinary levels and the citizens of countries that have stocked up on BTC want to sell their coins at a profit and there are buyers from other countries, what would the governments of those counties benefit since their citizens are actually importing foreign currency at the expense of their own since they spend dollars, euros, and yens to buy coins from abroad?

So basically a government would only benefit if the balance is positive, if everyone would be just buying coins then it will be a loss for them, and there's no way for every country to benefit in the long run, it's impossible!

At a personal level Bitcoin can indeed make you wealthy and protect your finances, but on a global level, it's just a redistribution of money.


The are plenty of services that are just as fast and at least in Europe, I get no fees for an instant national transfer.

Meriting you for the effort with the portfolios, but completely disagree with this.
It's impossible for everyone to get rich by just buying and holding coins, let's cut inflation out of the equation as its irrelevant if we talk about coins purchasing power in the future so for everyone to be at least 3rd world country rich you would need trillions in value getting into this, and not only that, but you will need trillions more as people are exchanging their coins for other things of value or for fiat, percentages are deceiving if we do a raw market cap value, and oversimplify things you will see that in all its history cryptos have managed to get valued at 3 trillion, for an x10 spike to happen and for everyone to be happy including the ones buying at 60k you will need 30 trillion, let's think this is possible and even that won't make everyone rich, not by a long margin.

I really think that this whole we buy 100$ with of coins and in 10 years we're rich and not doing anything else needs to stop.


Just lol.

He missed a 0 in 600, he did the math right, for that moment the average was around that number, funny enough that block came roughly 10 minutes after the previous, but for the last 24 the average is far lower, at 3.1, highest for a 24h average seems to be 5.70 reached back in 2017.

But I think he asks about the maximum possible, at which point LN renders the main chain irrelevant in capacity, so that limit might actually be triggered by the number of coins and funds available and the number of channels, the network could theoretically do 1 million TPS a second but there might never be enough participants do reach that.

Where did you get this idea from?
There is no country in Europe without VAT and there is no country in EU that do so, there is an EU directive that puts limits to both how low and how high this can go in order to harmonize taxes.
Germany has a standard 19% VAT and a 9% VAT for foodstuff.
Also, prices are not "divided" by VAT anywhere, it's value added tax, the name spells it for you.


Actually, the ones overreacting are the ones outside Germany and Europe who are already picturing Europeans freezing to death, starving with no food, with their economies crushing, and so on and on. In reality, one should watch live cams from the summer when the beaches were full, hotels, highways, cinemas, malls, pubs, and clubs were full, there are 100x times more Russians overreacting about this than Europeans.

The one who is not knowing what he is talking about is you:
https://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekisteri/rekisterointipalvelut/rekisterin_tietosisalto.html


The business register address you've linked to accepts postal addresses as main addresses, there is no law in Finland in which any company must disclose all its working addresses, you are allowed to have as many as you want and just list one in the register.

Second, Localbitcoins is an Osakeyhtio, a limited company, as you can see in the registry form:
https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1979/19790129

There is no mandatory fixed address required, but a postal address or the municipality from which they operate.

And it's not just Finland it's the EU or even the UK, for example, Binance is operating in the Uk as Binance Markets Limited, their address is a virtual one, home to no less than 111,446 business or Bitstamp operates from a 200 shared offices in London or the same in Luxemburg and the myriad of examples can continue.

But you're free to go down there and wait for their CEO, post a selfie with him and prove me wrong.  

Nope:
https://resoilfoundation.org/en/environment/eu-forests-growth/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/07/forest-europe-environment/


So, real efforts are not futile, forest in Europe is growing which means it can be done elsewhere too if there is the actual will to do so.


Let me add something to what Lucius said.
Europe is not the land of reindeer, no we don't have 10 meters of snowfalls, we don't have blizzards that freeze everything for months, and no, no artic nights in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, France > insert all the EU countries except for a bit of Norway or Finland.

Just to throw some numbers here:


Second, stop being so dramatic about everything.
We've been through covid where everyone was hoarding bullets and toilet paper, we've been to another grab-everything food rush and the stores are full, we're going to go through this so-called gas shortage and the ones investing in wood will see they've bought a ton of overpriced wood that they will either see decaying or sell for a fraction of the price.

Remember what happened to lumber prices in the US?
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/commodities/lbs

Of course, they are free to do so, if Mara wants to censor all the blocks they mine, it's their choice, if Bitpay wants full KYC, proof of Funds, pictures of all your family and former lovers, and a fresh sperm sample every 6 months, they can ask and see how they go bankrupt...or not!

What I dislike is that for a few pennies or for the hope of seeing their investment go up by 10% some will abandon every single ounce of the reason they have, they will trash their moral principles, will start clapping, and even attack everyone who doesn't bow down and pray to the newly found god turning against any sane idea from the community, throwing away liberty and becoming a pet dog for a few coins. I've seen this with Bukele, have the courage to question his actions, his numbers his past projects, you'll be labeled as a traitor, a western propagandist, a banker, and the bigger the mass of those useful brainwashed idiots the easier for them to gain more and more power till at one point you will realize they outnumber you by an order of magnitude. And by that time...it's too late!


I'm curious how many more such cases, after seeing so many in the past, like CZ asking for a rollback or blocking wasabi addresses and a ton of others from Silbert to Armstrong do we need to see to stop being surprised by this?

Everything is linked together with a few problems:
https://globalenergymonitor.org/projects/europe-gas-tracker/tracker-map/

The main problem is the capacity of some pipes, for example, the biggest obstacle is from Spain to France or Italy, in the past Spain which is a net importer had zero reasons to export or import gas from western Europe, now with its LNG capacity it can do so more than the pipes can take.
Also, the price fluctuates due to demand, it's not something extraordinary at all for a heat wave to hit one part of the continent and cold rainy weather on the other, so the prices will do the same, we had negative prices for a few hours in the Netherlands just like the US
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-25/west-texas-gas-prices-go-negative-for-first-time-in-2-years
There was just too much gas being pumped and no demand in other countries at all, themselves filling deposits at record levels, basically France has no storing capacity left at this point.


https://agsi.gie.eu

Every country has enough gas right now, the problem is the price as some have bought like mad while the price was 5 times this level and they are unwilling to spend it unless it goes a bit up, waiting for winter but at the same time having full deposits and not been able to buy and pump in cheaper gas.
That's what panic does, you end up with more expensive stuff than you actually needed at all.

Dumping the old names does create a feeling of let's go and trust these guys one more time, it does tempt the ones that just had a go for Bitwala to try this one again, maybe something has changed, and so on. If you see the old name and the old interface no way you're going to try it again.
Also, at least in their minds, maybe they were trying to find a new audience, while bitwala doesn't really mean anything according to all these online dictionaries Nuri does have a meaning in Arabic and in Korean (light/world) so who knows their plans might have been expanding in one of those regions if they fail at home.


Probably a small percentage of one round of investment if it were just for the name but from what people were saying overall social media they did change the app also, although the reviews weren't that positive so that might have cost a bit more, but yeah no way closer to change all those physical signs and all the branding in a retail store, Auchan spent on average 1 million euros for each superstore in bought in the last decade just on rebranding. These guys probably spend 500$ on some banners and more than that on their office coffee mugs and pencils.

Why are you people so against an idea that others don't give a damn about and see it as normal?
The western countries do the same over and over, China did the same thing 8 years ago, Jpana will do it the next year, every country does so as the technology has improved in both fields, making it both easier to create intricate patterns but also easier to copy old ones designed half a century ago.

It's this continuously bashing of everything the government does is bad going to help you, or are you going to strat denying even the good things as being god just because it's a politician doing so?


Probably you're not aware but banknotes get printed all the time, in every country tons of notes are being withdrawn from circulation as they are being damaged every day, and the CB prints the replacement, so it will be the same thing long term.



Oh, the irony, when people dump their naira for other currencies evaluating it's bad for the economy when they are dumping it for Bitcoin again evaluating it, it's great for the economy. You just have to love it, no matter what some will do it will be bad because it must be bad!

That's their mailing address (same as on the website), it's a virtual office as required by the Finish law if you don't want to disclose or you don't have the need for a real office, and judging by the number of topics here and the way people are reacting to their problems I can bet that they will never disclose the real workplace. So if you go there and ask for them you will just be pointed to a box where you can leave any letters or citations to them, no way you're going to see the CEO with a coffee walking down the lobby.


Just a suggestion, if you use the same tone and the same threats in your discussions with them even the ombudsman will decline your case as they will deny involvement when there is no cooperation from the accusing side and you don't follow standard mediation procedure, especially if you're the one doing the death threats. For what it is you might actually get yourself in trouble if they file a complaint against you.

Yeah, I can see it, but it's burning red, it seems hot as hell, it smells like it and I can see some horned ones dancing around it.


On top of what Philip and NotFuzzyWarm said, I don't know about the others but with the Binance loan deal, it seems something like a loanshark pawnshop combination with the worse of the worse, so it's not just about taxes but securing a position in which they almost can't lose but also gain a lot.
Setting aside the 10% interest rate it seems like the sum is just credit for the operation, so you don't get a full stash of banknotes upfront you get a credit line from which you might spend 1$ or 100k each month but you pay on total, they have your gears as collateral, and you must secure this with crypto on top of, I assume they will appreciate gear value at 25% of used market price, plus, and this is the cherry on top, you'll be forced to mine at the own pool, so from here I can guess the next step is a lock on all your earnings to secure that credit line.

From what transpired right now it's more of a bankruptcy procedure than a loan even on paper.

You have the explanation in the same article you've quoted:


It's nothing special, every country does so, even the Eurozone launched a new batch of banknotes designs in 2019,  the US has changed the design of the $100 in 2010, and Britain just replaced two of their banknotes just to change them again after the death of the Queen.

Nothing to do with the economy, its standard procedure.

If he managed to get an order for it, he might have been lucky! 
There are already some buying pre-orders on eBay with $400 (confirmed sales) and some asking for even more for a perfume that might be delivered next year, there are fake shops that have already scammed a few clients with their offers. There are even fake shops that have paid for goods ads spots, one of them is claiming 20k bottles delivered! (out of 10k produced)and I'm sure that they've managed to trick at least one percent of their fake claims.

While it might be stupid to buy that thing for daily usage, also a bit disgusting if it does smell like that at all, but most of the ones that bought it did so just to resell and it might have been lucrative enough. Just as some bought those Ukrainian stamps for 10$ just to resell them for a hundred on eBay, people will stop asking questions about morality when they smell easy money.

But after the Balenciaga 10k trash bag, the $290 paper bag or the $185 Prada paperclip, we can't talk about rationally spending or thinking anymore, those days are long gone.

Have you read the ToS when you signed up?
https://localbitcoins.com/terms_of_service/


Finland is part of the EU, meaning that every citizen outside the EU can file a claim with the finish Ombusdan bureau to mediate your case against them if the above fail, if the value is below 5k euros you can also file an online case under the small claims procedure .


And you think the guys there will listen to a stranger saying he's your representative?
This is not about buying a washing machine or returning a laptop.

I'm surprised it took so long, I don't think anyone would be surprised they went down, after all, it's not like they were affected by the ripple waves of the Defi schemes going down, they were actually one of Celsius's partners,  the moment this notice went up:
https://nuri.com/blog/bitcoin-interest-account-withdrawals-paused/
it was clear they will go down.


They only got some 100k from EASME, 18 million came from Early Bird, and some other millions from NKB and others, got 50 mils, lost 500, Erik Voorhees must be proud of all his shilling.

I find it funny quoting the "west" when the entire Europe is east of Salvador but, has he touched the subject of the aid money he has received from the evil west? Oh wait, no, that would bring down his whole commie manifesto against the evil capitalist pigs!

https://www.heritage.org/trade/report/el-salvadors-economy-sputters-and-us-aid-policies-are-theculprit

https://sv.usembassy.gov/usaid-emergency-assistance-to-el-salvador-for-tropical-storm-julia/

The United States has provided over $4.4 billion in development assistance through USAID and its predecessor U.S. Government programs
https://www.usaid.gov/el-salvador/history

And speaking of kool aid,

Where is that geothermal 200MW powerplant that was ready a year ago that would be dedicated just for bitcoin mining?
Where are the incentives for miners in Salvador and why is Salvador importing electricity and asking citizens to pay more than every country around them (from which they import energy)
What happened to the Bitcoin bonds that were supposed to be 300% oversold?
What happened to the 500 million city that is going to cost at least 6 billion by the latest numbers?

Yeah, writing an angry text to the corporate overlords that are chaining the poor socialist worker is easy, running the country into the ground with a 1.7 billion or 6.5% GDP deficit is a completely different story.
But the blame game works on the brainwashed so well!

Or, or, bear with me and watch this totally borderline madness idea, or maybe not to weird

Maybe it's because in reality the EU alone produces as many sunflower seeds for oil as Russia does?
https://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#data/QCL
It's a pain in the ass to link to that table from them on just production by country on a smartphone but trust me, it's the same.
And not only we do produce the same amount but we mainly use rapeseed oil:


And again, weirdly enough, the EU is the largest producer of rapeseed in the world after Canada.
Let's throw in the fact that southern counties use also olive oil and now we have the perfect ingredients why this was just a toilet paper shortage panic?
Maybe, maybe?   


The moment I can go past security pretending the silencer on my rifle is a microphone I promise you I will ask her! Oh, should I wait for the answer?

Yeah, because that's what every human aspires at, leaving in fear, in poverty, with the constant fear of his firstborn being one of those 60 dead in a thousand, a 30x death rate for infants compared to other countries, a lack of basic needs and a constant fear of not having enough food next day and now way to store some food in advance because, well, again, poverty and basic utilities lacking.

For centuries the human race has gone without electricity, do you think that's where we should go back?
Did you go without electricity? My family went through two world wars, concentration camps, and re-education camps, wanna test those and see? Or you would just like to have the normal standards of life like everyone else instead of bragging about how you can go without food and how stupid are those people who have enough in their fridge for a month?

This stupid thing of I'm tough, I don't need that, those pussies in the western world who can't do that or that with a stick and a stone and a banana peel really needs to stop.  Rather than congratulating yourself that you can't live the way you do maybe it's about time to think of improving yourself.

Oh, and btw, where did you get that Batman quote from?
Of from a western movie, made with electricity, distributed to your country with electricity and you've watched it with the help of electricity! So much for that darkness of yours!


And how would those satellites get the data from the people on the ground?
Because I'm pretty sure you know your phone is not able to send data into space, they use ground stations, which run on electricity also.


And without electricity and cell towers and internet how are you going to send the data from your computer or phone to those stations (assuming they still have a back-up power supply?

Probably a lot of you are already accustomed to the name of the FTX founder grabbing headline after headline when he offers to buy assets from Celsius in an altruistic way or how he has "saved" Voyager thinking only of its users. Adding on top of that his desire on helping other troubled exchanges and so on he wants probably to portray himself either as a crypto messiah or at least a copy of JP Morgan.

But of course, in his ideal world where everything runs smoothly, we would need some adjustments and you can get an idea of those from the first paragraphs to the last:
https://www.ftxpolicy.com/posts/possible-digital-asset-industry-standards




Of course, this is just one of the many tips of the icebergs flotilla he has unleashed, for him seems like harmony can be achieved by, guess what, centralized coins, clear predefined protocols where percentage rule (I have a Terra flashback here) can solve everything without bothering anyone, and it's all about his care for the normal user that might be scammed or lose money, not about his own greed for power.

Now, I'm pretty sure that his sudden need for law regulation customer protection has started with the FCA poking around FTX and probably others in different countries especially the US looking more carefully at the way FTX is doing business but still, for him to go that fast in this direction highlight again, at least for me why we must never and never name any kind of leader or head figure or promote someone to this kind of virtual position, I think I don't even need to add that a politician would be the last person needed to be branded as such a savior.