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3681  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Timejacking & Bitcoin on: May 28, 2011, 11:05:12 PM
The huge majority of stratum 1 NTP nodes are getting their feed from GPS, so trust in NTP is essentially trust in the US Government.
3682  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: BTC Guild - 0% Fee Pool, Long polling, JSON API, invalid insurance [~275 gH/sec] on: May 28, 2011, 06:51:06 PM
Feature request:  A way to change a worker's password.
3683  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Should I invest in a mining rig? on: May 28, 2011, 03:38:46 PM
What made me sarcastic and condescending (not to mention bitter) was answering this exact same question about 30 times.

If we assume the difficulty will grow by 30% every 2 weeks (both of these estimates are very conservative, by the way), 700 Mhash/sec worth of hashing power will probably find about 1.95 blocks between now and the end of time.

You'll have to plug in what you think a bitcoin will be worth to find out if this is a good idea or not.

You'll need to scale that to the GPU you are planning to buy.  If, for example, you get a 5850, you can expect about 300 Mhash/sec out of it, so it would earn about 1.95 * (300/700) = 0.835 * 50 = 41 BTC.  Even that estimate is probably very high.

Why do you have to answer?

Because I'm helpful.
3684  Economy / Economics / Re: U.S. dollar could 'collapse': UN on: May 28, 2011, 03:18:54 PM
Yawn.

These stories come out every couple of months, and have for years, and years, and years.

The dollar has some big problems, as does the US in general, but there is simply no viable alternative, and no prospects for an alternative.  Also, nearly every man, woman and child on the face of the planet has a vested interest in preventing a full blown collapse.

ummm, what is bitcoin all about?

Maybe some day.  Not today, not soon.
3685  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: proposal to reduce potential effects of majority miner attack on: May 28, 2011, 03:15:56 PM
The idea is not to kick them off the network.  It is to make it harder to win block races.

If there is an honest disagreement about the block chain, the version that is believed by more nodes is likely to win eventually.  That means that there is an advantage to being well connected.

If you are intending to attack the chain, you will want to have as many connections as you can, to get as much of the network on your side as possible.  This proposal makes it more difficult for an attacker to remain well connected.  Not impossible, of course, just more difficult.
3686  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / proposal to reduce potential effects of majority miner attack on: May 27, 2011, 10:48:59 PM

I'm a networking guy, so I propose that we use the term "chain flapping" or merely "flapping" to describe the phenomena evident when two long term competing branches are fighting for control of the chain.  Look up route flapping, if you aren't familiar with the term already.

In the case of an attacker with a lot of hashing power, since the attacker never has a 100% certain chance of getting their block out first, there will be times when an honest node will get a valid block out first, and the attacker will then have to publish multiple blocks to regain control.  This is an inevitable result of this type of attack.

I propose a countermeasure.  Every time a node is forced to reshuffle because a side chain grows longer than the main chain, the peer that caused the shuffle is noted.  If a third arrives within a certain timeframe, that link is considered to be flapping, and will be disconnected.

This will have little effect on middle nodes, since on average they will only need to pass the block to a small fraction of their peers, and the remaining connections will not be closed.  The attacker, however, will have to pass it to many peers, and will lose many connections.

There is more, but I've gotta run.  Gonna get drunk and watch game 7, but not necessarily in that order.  Heh, I'm in such a hurry I haven't even had time to search on this.  Hope I'm not rehashing something that was sorted out years ago.

Quote from: kjj
You would need not just 50% of the world's hashing power, but closer to 95%+ of it if you wanted to pull off any meaningful BTC scam.
I don't think so. You can steal the vast majority of blocks from then on by storing up blocks you generate and release them only when someone else also solves one. Not sure if you consider that meaningful or not. (There was some long ago thread about this that I can't find now) You could double spend by getting one block ahead of the good network and then just stay ahead until you are ready to drop your one block longer chain.

The time to find a block is not a linear function of your hashing speed, it is a probabilistic process.  Having 10% more power than the other guy doesn't mean you find blocks 10% faster, it means that you have a ~5% chance of finding it before him.

Say that you fraction of the global networking power is X, where 0 <= X <= 1;

The probability that you will be able to do this for one block is X
The probability that you will be able to do this for two blocks is X^2
The probability that you will be able to do this for three blocks is X^3
The probability that you will be able to do this for four blocks is X^4
Etc...

Actually, those are the high end estimates.  In reality, you will need another factor, Y, to correct for the portion of the network that believes in the attack chain.  Over time, Y will get smaller and smaller.

Since this topic keeps coming up over and over again, I'm going to propose a potential solution: every time a node reshuffles, they should make a note of which peer it came from.  More than three reshuffles from the same peer in like 24 hours, and that node is dropped.
3687  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin without mining on: May 27, 2011, 10:29:56 PM
Agreed.
3688  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin without mining on: May 27, 2011, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: kjj
You would need not just 50% of the world's hashing power, but closer to 95%+ of it if you wanted to pull off any meaningful BTC scam.
I don't think so. You can steal the vast majority of blocks from then on by storing up blocks you generate and release them only when someone else also solves one. Not sure if you consider that meaningful or not. (There was some long ago thread about this that I can't find now) You could double spend by getting one block ahead of the good network and then just stay ahead until you are ready to drop your one block longer chain.

The time to find a block is not a linear function of your hashing speed, it is a probabilistic process.  Having 10% more power than the other guy doesn't mean you find blocks 10% faster, it means that you have a ~5% chance of finding it before him.

Say that you fraction of the global networking power is X, where 0 <= X <= 1;

The probability that you will be able to do this for one block is X
The probability that you will be able to do this for two blocks is X^2
The probability that you will be able to do this for three blocks is X^3
The probability that you will be able to do this for four blocks is X^4
Etc...

Actually, those are the high end estimates.  In reality, you will need another factor, Y, to correct for the portion of the network that believes in the attack chain.  Over time, Y will get smaller and smaller.

Since this topic keeps coming up over and over again, I'm going to propose a potential solution: every time a node reshuffles, they should make a note of which peer it came from.  More than three reshuffles from the same peer in like 24 hours, and that node is dropped.
3689  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Physical Bitcoins on: May 27, 2011, 08:00:22 PM
And, using asymmetric crypto you could probably even do this in such a way that if you ever lost physical possession of the card, you could easily revoke the ability for that card to access your private bitcoin keys (even if someone key-logged your pin code on a terminal of some sort).

It's simpler than that.  The data on the card consists of the private key(s) that have the ability to sign transactions spending certain bitcoins.  So, assuming you realize the card has been stolen before all of those bitcoins are transferred elsewhere by the thief, you simply use your home copy of your wallet.dat to transfer those coins to brand new addresses whose associated private keys are not on the lost card.  You'd never have your only copy of private keys for addresses of bitcoins under your control be on the card; you'd always have that info at home too.

Why would anyone accept a physical coin from you that you can revoke?
3690  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Should I invest in a mining rig? on: May 27, 2011, 06:52:13 PM
I'm hardly an early adopter, joining up 9 whole days ago.  What made me sarcastic and condescending (not to mention bitter) was answering this exact same question about 30 times.

If we assume the difficulty will grow by 30% every 2 weeks (both of these estimates are very conservative, by the way), 700 Mhash/sec worth of hashing power will probably find about 1.95 blocks between now and the end of time.

You'll have to plug in what you think a bitcoin will be worth to find out if this is a good idea or not.

You'll need to scale that to the GPU you are planning to buy.  If, for example, you get a 5850, you can expect about 300 Mhash/sec out of it, so it would earn about 1.95 * (300/700) = 0.835 * 50 = 41 BTC.  Even that estimate is probably very high.

See that is what I was looking for...Some data on what Mhash/s I could get out of various cards...And I couldn't find any place,with a list of cards and their respective perfomance...

bitcoin.org -> Wiki / Help -> Mining -> Mining hardware comparison
3691  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Will bitcoin computation power eventually rest in the hands of a few? on: May 27, 2011, 06:32:56 PM
when you get right down to it, there's really nothing quite as scientifically beneficial as money.
+1
3692  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin without mining on: May 27, 2011, 06:17:37 PM
You would need not just 50% of the world's hashing power, but closer to 95%+ of it if you wanted to pull off any meaningful BTC scam.  That means you would need twenty times more hashing power than the rest of the world combined.
3693  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Should I invest in a mining rig? on: May 27, 2011, 06:12:07 PM
I'm hardly an early adopter, joining up 9 whole days ago.  What made me sarcastic and condescending (not to mention bitter) was answering this exact same question about 30 times.

If we assume the difficulty will grow by 30% every 2 weeks (both of these estimates are very conservative, by the way), 700 Mhash/sec worth of hashing power will probably find about 1.95 blocks between now and the end of time.

You'll have to plug in what you think a bitcoin will be worth to find out if this is a good idea or not.

You'll need to scale that to the GPU you are planning to buy.  If, for example, you get a 5850, you can expect about 300 Mhash/sec out of it, so it would earn about 1.95 * (300/700) = 0.835 * 50 = 41 BTC.  Even that estimate is probably very high.
3694  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Should I invest in a mining rig? on: May 27, 2011, 05:48:56 PM
Yup.  Go for it.  You've managed to ignore all of the dozens of other threads asking this same question, plus all of the wiki pages, guides, calculators, spreadsheets and other utilities that could help you make a ration decision.  Based on this, and because I'm sick of doing simple math for people, I feel that you have the true believer spirit that is necessary to be a successful miner.
3695  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Physical Bitcoins on: May 27, 2011, 05:45:43 PM
Gold and silver coins are the perfect physical companion to bitcoins.  They have many desirable characteristics in common.
3696  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Nigerian Scam writing competition [1 BTC] on: May 27, 2011, 05:43:25 PM
Heh.  Those errors are intentional.  There are more hidden too, including a really big one.

I could have gone more realistic, but I figured I'd go for the authentic 419 flavor this time.
3697  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: FPGA mining for fun and profit on: May 27, 2011, 05:40:15 PM
Also, you will not see a bitcoin ASIC. Complex ASICs required highly skilled (read: expensive) engineers and even more expensive processes to put them into place. When there is already a very good solution to the problem (GPUs) and an enormously volatile and unpredictable exchange rate, you're not going to see such an investment. Not to mention that investors in such a project would almost certainly demand immediate cashing out of mining proceeds to pay off their investment, which would put significant downward pressure on the exchange rate. ASIC mining is a pipe dream.

I hate to disappoint you...

Unless you're referring to those had to read your vague half sentence, I don't think you've disappointed anyone.

Are you suggesting that you know of someone putting millions of dollars into developing a custom ASIC for mining?

You mean other than ArtForz?
3698  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Nigerian Scam writing competition [1 BTC] on: May 27, 2011, 05:27:47 PM
Subject: Dear Respected One,

Dear Respected One,

GREETINGS,

Permit me to inform you of my desire of going into business relationship with you. I got your contact from the International web site directory. I prayed over it and selected your name among other names due to it's esteeming nature and the recommendations given to me as a reputable and trust worthy person I can do business with and by the recommendations I must not hesitate to confide in you for this simple and sincere business.

I am Wumi Abdul; the only Daughter of late Mr and Mrs George Abdul. My father was a very wealthy cocoa merchant in Abidjan,the economic capital of Ivory Coast before he was poisoned to death by his business associates on one of their outing to discus on a business deal. When my mother died on the 21st October 1984, my father took me and my younger brother HASSAN special because we are motherless. Before the death of my father on 30th June 2008 in a private hospital here in Abidjan. He secretly called me on his bedside and told me that he has a sum of 12.500.000 BTC (Twelve Million, five hundred thousand bitcoins) left in a secure wallet.

He also explained to me that it was because of this wealth and some huge amount of bitcoins his business associates supposed to balance his from the deal they had that he was poisoned by his business associates, that I should seek for a God fearing foreign partner in a country of my choice where I will transfer these bitcoins and use it for investment purpose, (such as real estate management).

Sadly, he died while he was telling me the public key that matches the account, so some advance funding will be required to crack the remaining 43 bits of the private key. Sir, we are honourably seeking your assistance in the following ways.

1) To provide a bitcoin address where these bitcoins will be transferred to once the key recovery is complete.

2) To serve as the guardian of this since I am a girl of 16 years.

3) To provide an advance of 1.000 BTC (One thousand bitcoins) to be used to purchase computers that will be used to search for the remainder of the private key.

Moreover Sir, we are willing to offer you 15% of the sum as compensation for effort input after the successful recovery and transfer of this fund to your designate account. please feel free to contact ,me via this bitcoin address 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf

Anticipating to hear from you soon.
Thanks and God Bless.
Best regards.
Miss Wumi Abdul
3699  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Let's add up the KNOWN lost bitcoins on: May 27, 2011, 05:14:39 PM
geez, u clicked back almost a year?  sounds like u had to remember that Stone Man posted here on the forum, search back for the post and date, and then u knew about how far back u had to go.  the point i'm trying to ascertain is if u didn't know that info and u were looking back in time for this tx, u would have to patiently click back and examine each block carefully for that 8999.  altho in this case it is easy to spot.  what if u were looking for some .01 btc tx?

It's only like 50,000 blocks back.  OCD hath its privileges.

His loss was pretty easy to find.  There aren't many transactions like it.  Finding one specific .01 transaction would be a lot harder.  You'd have to look at something else that you know, like one of the addresses, or the transaction ID.
3700  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Let's add up the KNOWN lost bitcoins on: May 27, 2011, 05:00:05 PM
kjj, how'd u find the block?

I just clicked back through the chain until I saw a 9000 -> 8999 + 1 transaction around the right date.

i assume u did this in Block Explorer.  just went there and they only have the last 20 or so blocks listed?  how'd u search further back?  also how did u know what date the block got solved?

You can click all the way back to the genesis block by using the Previous Block links.  Stone Man posted about the loss here on the forums the next day.
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