Sure, you could have sold at ~$60k, and that would have been the absolute, 100% perfect time to sell all bitcoin. But even at ~$30k or even $10k it's still a great time to sell bitcoin. In fact, as long as it's worth anything, people should be selling it because it's eventually going to trend to $0 or very close to it. Who is selling? Everyone who knows this confirmed fact.
It’s very laughable that trolls waste their time in trying to convince the MARKET, which is actually made up of every particpant from plebs like me, to billionaires and institutions, to you, yes you the troll, that Bitcoin’s value is eventually $0. You are an OG, and should be rich, but you have probably sold under $20,000, OR, under $1,500? Why are you wasting your time trolling?  |
|
|
|
|
OP, you should be asking, “who the hell is BUYING”? Anyone selling today is more Bitcoin that goes to the billionaires for HODLing, never to be seen in market again for maybe a minimum of five years. The crash from ATH is different than the crashes of 2013, and 2017. The market is currently more liquid. Who is providing the liquidity on the bid side?
|
|
|
|
There are definitely people right now that want to hang themselves, not literally, because they are HODLimg with a loss. BUT, zoom out, just remember that Bitcoin’s trajectory is still on the way up. Five years from now newbies will say YOU are only lucky because you bought Bitcoin under $100,000. HODL, or lose them to Saylor and other billionaires.  |
|
|
|
|
Shower thought, is some degree of centralization in the Lightning Network, to find efficiency, truly bad for you, franky1? If you ask me it’s not. Or are you merely criticizing the people who believe that Lightning is on the far right side of the decentralization spectrum?
|
|
|
|
Bitcoin does not care about its price.
The price? Who said anything, or mentioned anything about Bitcoin’s price? You did, though in a roundabout way. I did? Did you read the OP and got the context? They will try to convince you to sell, DON’T, just HODL.
Or how about this? Use Bitcoin for what it was designed to do and don't worry about its price. OR, maybe we should be made more aware that Bitcoin might always be under attack from all directions, from State-level actors, from the gnomes behind the Central Banks, from trolls gaslighting the naive. All the FUD.
C'mon man. We both know that China can shuffle around miners and turn switches on and off to their hearts content and the end result is some wonky block times.
I’m talking about the propaganda that goes with it. “It’s not a currency/store of value, too volatile. It’s risky, criminals use it. POW is a waste of electricity, it’s destroying the environment”. |
|
|
|
Regarding the friends and relatives asking about your well being, that is surely understandable. It would be a rare case that they might consider that the dip/correction is a time for them to be setting up their buy plans (and making sure that they have accounts so that they are actually able to buy), so they may well be having some troubles relating to how to deal with BTC price dippening situations.. and surely the dips can look severe in the charts, and likely exacerbated by the severity of the negative news (that may well be exaggerating what is actually going on.. we have surely seen exaggerations happen many times in BTClandia history).
Very very understandable. I believe they thought that I might have sold in panic, OR maybe they thought I’m losing all. They never realized that buying under $10,000 was an important buying opportunity because it might truly never see under $10,000 again. When I told them to get ready for another golden opportunity,  Because I don’t know when it goes up. I’m a pleb. Hahaha. |
|
|
|
OK, then in that context, can we agree that Chrismas lights are also a wasteful/useless use of energy that doesn’t benefit society? Where’s the “Ban the Christmas Lights Foundation”, or people calling to ban them because it’s harmful for the environment? We don’t see them anywhere.
Because 1. Christmas Lights moved to LEDs , which is way less power. 2. Christmas Lights are spread out across multiple power grids. 3. Christmas Lights don't run 24x7. 4. Christmas Lights usually only run for a few hours at night. 5. All of the world's Christmas lights are not in just a few warehouses overloading the electric grids. So if you want the Bitcoin Bans to stop. And still want to keep PoW. 1. Improve Asics power usage by a factor of 8.5X. 2. Regulate only 1 Asic per house hold. 3. Only run ASICS at Night , 1 Month Out of the Year.  Then you can compare it to Christmas Lights. But to be honest , I am totally over the PoW verses PoS debates, If the Bitcoin Cult refuses to evolve, then the bans will just keep increasing. Solve the PoW energy waste problem or don't, because at the end of the day if the devs fail to step up, the governments will just outright ban it. (Like China Did.)Energy Waste Problem solved.  Have a Great Day. I find the criticism hypocritical. Because IF Bitcoin solves, what you say is a “problem”, and switches to, if possible, POS, would you continue your criticism against other forms of wasteful uses of Elecricity? Or are you doing it because you hate Bitcoin? Plus, who’s to say that POW is wasteful? It secures the network. The more energy spent, the more secure the network is. China cannot even do anything to attack Bitcoin through POW. You say the network has no value. Who decides its value? You? I believe the market is saying that you are wrong, ser. |
|
|
|
Genuine question, wouldn’t large mining farms avoid regions where electricity is in high demand, and therefore have higher electricity rates, making it unprofitable for mining? Plus electricity generated is only “wasted” if there’s a surplus and the surplus isn’t used.
Excess Energy is never wasted, that is a myth. Texas energy rate prices are lower than average, which is why miners are flocking there. Most Power Grids are interconnected, they have to maintain a % of power to keep their grid stable, when their usage is lower, they sell the so called excess energy to the other grids. (Their is No wasted energy.)So their is no massive amount of excess energy in the grid system. But in regions with low demand for electricity, don’t the power stations regulate the output themselves, which could lower profit? Wouldn’t industrial POW miners be welcome consumers for those power stations because it makes them generate the output to their capacity? I don’t know why some people believe this is bad. It’s simply commerce. Actually in the US, power plants and power generators hand over control of their output to Power Grid Operators. They do this to avoid a monopoly. https://peguru.com/2018/09/who-controls-the-power-grid-in-usa/https://www.anthropoceneinstitute.com/science/grid/Grid operators constantly monitor and manage the demand, supply, reserve margins, and power mix to ensure that you have immediate access to power in your home or business. What is the reserve margin? It is a specified backup generation capacity that can compensate for potential forecasting errors, unexpected power plant shutdowns or weather events
The grid operator uses a three-phase planning process to ensure that power plants produce the right amount of electricity to meet electric demand at any given time. Electricity supply must balance demand at all times in order to avoid a blackout or other cascading problem. The production of electricity is adjusted in 15 minute intervals to account for demand changes throughout the day. For this reason, there are three main types of power plants: baseload, load-following, and peakers.
Baseload power plants meet the minimal power needed by the grid and are designed to be on most of the time. Their capacity factor, or percent of time operational, is above 80%. They are only shut down or curtailed when performing maintenance or repair. Baseload power is the cheapest type of generation and usually supplied by coal fired and nuclear power plants because they can provide large amounts of power (up to 1.6 GW).
Load-following plants, also known as intermediate load plants, are typically combined-cycled gas fired power plants, which have a high thermal efficiency of up to 58%. They have a gas turbine and a waste heat recovery system to capture the gas turbine’s exhaust to drive a steam turbine that produces additional electricity. Generation from load-following plants can be ramped up and down as needed. Their capacity factor is usually less than 30% of the time. But they are more complex to maintain and more expensive to operate/
The power plant of “last resort” are peaker plants. They are turned on for even shorter periods of time to meet extremely high high demands, for example, when air conditioning is used during hot days. Due to their low capacity factor, which could be as low as a few hours for the entire year, they the most expensive type of generation.
How is power bought and sold in the US?
Electricity is bought and re-sold on the wholesale power market before finally reaching the final consumer. With the exception of Texas, this market is regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) due to the interstate nature of the grid.
The wholesale market is open to utility owned suppliers and marketers, non-utility independent power producers (IPPs), and excess generation from traditional vertically-operated utilities. Furthermore, participants in the wholesale market do not necessary have own generation capacity or serve the end-user. Much like other commodity markets, individual traders (power marketers) buy electricity on the market to re-sell it.
Once the electricity is procured from the wholesale market, it is sold to the final consumer through the retail market. In states where full retail competition exists, customers may choose from either their incumbent utility supplier or from an array of new competitive suppliers
How do grid operators work together?
Within the regional wholesale markets, grid operators organize under a regional transmission organization (RTO) or independent system operator (ISO). These entities serve as a third-party independent operator of the transmission system to control, monitor, and coordinate the operations of a grid.
About 60% of the U.S. electric power supply is managed by RTOs. Ten Regional Transmission Organizations (RTOs) operate bulk electric power systems across much of North America.
These operators ensure that no preference is given in the dispatch of a utility-owned generator over a competitive generator. Grid operators must be certified under the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC).
Since PoW miners require 24x7 power, they draw down a large % of the Baseload power plants , which in turn means more Intermediate Load plants, are running longer, and that when weather extremes happen, the “last resort” are peaker plants which if unable to meet the increased demand, that is when the power grid operators start rolling blackouts to avoid the whole grid collapsing and transformers burning out. Bitcoin Miners draw such large amounts of power in small regions , they totally remove a large % of the energy generated by the Baseload power plants. If the Number of Bitcoin Mining devices were regulated to limit their number per power grid, then their power drain could be managed better by the power grid operators thus avoiding the rolling blackouts that have to happen to protect the grid. * Regulating the number of ASICS per grid would have huge impact on Miners Profits as further separates locations increases their costs. Which is one reason Ethereum dev decided to avoid the potential coming government regulations by switching to PoS.* A lot of people in the bitcoin community want to cry fud and ignore the power drain of PoW, It is not fud, when the Power Grid operators start rolling blackouts, which has already happen in China and Iran, which is why they started banning mining. Power Grid operators only concern is protecting the Power grids, they don't care about bitcoins , altcoins or any of our opinions on algorithms, so the pretense that they are involved in fud is totally baseless, all they care about is a functioning power grid. It is like this, Bitcoiners don't have to switch to PoS, but they will have to do something to combat the energy drain they are placing on the power grids, before the Governments step in and make the decision for them. Which in China , they decided it was easier to ban bitcoin PoW mining than regulate it. OK, then in that context, can we agree that Chrismas lights are also a wasteful/useless use of energy that doesn’t benefit society? Where’s the “Ban the Christmas Lights Foundation”, or people calling to ban them because it’s harmful for the environment? We don’t see them anywhere. |
|
|
|
For the readers of this topic, I have an off-topic question. Will Bitcoin’s trajectory continue to follow Plan B’s S2F Ratio? Or will it finally be proven to be a broken model?
Why do you have such a habit of going off topic, here? There are other threads for stock to flow specifically (take this one for example), and surely within those other threads, members would be more than likely to attempt to address your questions.. including that you might actually read that some variation of your questions might have already been addressed.  Because, it’s MY thread?
I was debating against S2F before 2020’s halving, then began believing it without scrutinty after the halving because the price surged, following the model. Today, simply confused.
I personally doubt that we could proclaim stock to flow to be broken. Sure, it is currently deviating quite bit from it's trajectory, but what the fuck do you expect? For example, let's presume that the highs of the model are not met or even close to being met, such as between $150k and $288k, and maybe even the top of this cycle ends up being "in" at $64,895..., sure there are a lot of variations in between, and I would expect that the model would thereby attempt to account for the on the ground happenings in terms of where the price goes, and either the trajectory could be shifted down or made more flat or whatever, and those tweakenings of the model would come from updated facts on the ground... and should be a big so fucking what... None of us should be placing high odds into some price prediction model(s) that tell us about the future, when the future is not known. Furthermore, I am not even attempting to denigrate the stock to flow model because currently I consider that it remains amongst the best of BTC price prediction models so long as it is coupled with 4 year fractal (which is also already built into it) and exponential s-curve adoption based on Metcalfe principles and networking effects. Anyhow, any of us buyers, accumulators and HODLers of BTC should be preparing for any BTC price direction even if we might vary in terms of how much weight to be given to various BTC price prediction models. Regarding the buying on dip? You have any money left to buy? you waiting for more dip? You prepared in case there is no more dip? These continue to be individualistic questions and considerations.. don't blow your whole wadd on one dip. I have a job, and currently looking for other sources of income too for the purpose of saving more money for the next big buying opportunity. Close relatives and friends were asking if I was OK because of the crash. I told them they should start saving, this crash is another GIFT. |
|
|
|
MicroStrategy has purchased an additional 13,005 bitcoins for ~$489 million in cash at an average price of ~$37,617 per bitcoin. As of 6/21/21 we #hodl ~105,085 bitcoins acquired for ~$2.741 billion at an average price of ~$26,080 per bitcoin. $MSTR
https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1406946140344442882There’s the answer to the OP’s question. It was Michael Saylor who was actually pumping Bitcoin from $35,000 to $40,000, but it was unsuccessful. I’m among the most bullish of bulls, but I believe it’s the best time to start saving some cash for the next golden opportunity to buy large DIPs. |
|
|
|
This is hardly one of those epic battles. This is just another price adjustment.
Exactly. Bitcoin does not care about its price. The price? Who said anything, or mentioned anything about Bitcoin’s price? I believe many people in the community are not fully aware that there’s a large, totalitarian State that’s actually very aggressive in moving against Bitcoin, and its impact. |
|
|
|
|
BUMP!
I see that the topic was made TWO YEARS early. The largest SOCIO-POLITICAL, and SOCIO-PSYCHOLOGICAL attack is happening RIGHT NOW through the FUD by state-level actors of the Chinese Government. They will try to convince you to sell, DON’T, just HODL. As a community, Bitcoin needs us to stick together, and not be disunited in mind by these FUDsters.
|
|
|
|
the talk about green energy will eventually die. over the years the discussion will die even when the bitcoin miners will still be mining using coal. It's been that way since. there is no way any altcoin would overthrow BTC. Charles of Cardano also troll about BTC's utility but it won't really make any difference. we are already used to using BTC and more countries are participating already.
many will come just like him Ronald instantly becomes like a Elon when he trolled Coca-Cola. Beckham can also be one soon or someone else that's famous.
The “green energy debate” is also very hypocritical coming from those people who use it against Bitcoin. Would those same people also use the same debate for other “wasteful” use of electricity like Christmas lights during the Christmas Season? |
|
|
|
|
Does Michael Saylor have a wife? Truthfully someone should stop him from selling more equity of his company, or from using his company to take on more large debts to use to buy Bitcoin. There is a right time to do this, and currently it is NOT the right time.
|
|
|
|
|
$12,000 would be one of those once in a lifetime “gifts” to buy one of the most valuable “assets” of the cryptocurrency age. The Bitcoin market comes in cycles, and each cycle is bigger than the cycle before it. Sorry if you sold too early, and good luck HODLing your forked-forked-shitcoin-of-a-forked-shitcoin-that-will-never-be-Bitcoin.
|
|
|
|
|
For the readers of this topic, I have an off-topic question. Will Bitcoin’s trajectory continue to follow Plan B’s S2F Ratio? Or will it finally be proven to be a broken model?
I was debating against S2F before 2020’s halving, then began believing it without scrutinty after the halving because the price surged, following the model. Today, simply confused.
|
|
|
|
|
OP, your question might be answered, look at the market. I believe it’s the “Saylor Bids” that are currently supporting this market now. I was expecting to see the correction to continue, and see Bitcoin priced at $33,000 - $34,000 today.
|
|
|
|
My target price for Bitcoin is 15K-20K during the next few weeks.
That would indeed be the gift of all gifts. I HOPE you hit your target because I will definitely be there with you.
The party is clearly over, and investors should consider liquidating anything related to Bitcoin or short it.
Short knowing that Michael Saylor, Steve Cohen, Cathie Wood, and the other billionaires are buying and HODLing? Selling now would only be making it easy for those billionaires to get the thing they want from you most, ser. Your Bitcoin. Hahaha.
Recent collapse proves that Bitcoin isn't a safe haven, store of value, or a hedge against inflation/market correction, but a speculative token that can go down 50% in a week
Zoom out, ser. |
|
|
|
Around 40% - 50% of TOTAL AMOUNT of U.S. Dollars was printed after Bitcoin went online. YES, that much U.S. Dollars was printed AFTER 2011. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SLIf only someone invented a currency which the supply can’t be inflated on a whim by a cabal. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
