I'm really enjoying the price stability the past few days. If it continues I do think it will be quite good for bitcoin adoption. As the market is typically extremely volitile it does make me think that there are people who are creating the stability intentionally. If so, keep up the good work. Do others think this as well?
To me, the enthusiastic crowds of new bitcoin buyers are missing. Bargain-hunting buyers are more cautious about buying above these levels. Caution facilitates patience. But should prices slowly slump, or perhaps simply not rise, then I believe there will be another leg down testing $80. In a collapsing bubble, price trend bias is downwards. Not a bad outcome. Everything above $50 feels bullish to me. IMO there is a lot of real economy to be built around Bitcoin, and it has to be much easier to buy and trade before prime time |
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Ok, you detractors, I might be incorrect here, but I don't think this is meant to be a serious coin. It's meant to make fun of all the supporters of new altcoins with smaller and smaller caps that are 'designed' to help 'increase the coins value'. It's drawing attention to the fact that all you're really doing with ultimate caps is moving the decimal place around. Of course, I could be wrong, and this could be serious, in which case I would have to say it's fairly retarded.  I'm one of the supporters of coins with smaller and smaller caps because coins with larger and larger caps just end up being pump and dump coins. Prove otherwise. Make a coin worth more than Bitcoin or Litecoin with a higher cap. That said Onecoin takes it too far to the extreme. I support SLIGHTLY less than Bitcoin. 10 million coins is half of Bitcoin. 5 million is half of 10. But 1 coin is too much less. That's like if I make a coin called cloud coin and I say the cap is 500 trillion. This would be fine right? Sigh. Again, I see people talking about how much individual coins are worth.  the success of a coin is not how much the individual coin is worth, but in how stable, accepted, and useful it is. So far, yes, bitcoin is winning. But it had a huge head start on most of the others, and litecoin is giving it a good run in terms of stability and acceptance. Bitcoin already is acceptable and useful. We need coins to store our wealth also. Where do we put our money when Bitcoin crashes? Cash out into USD? Hell no. We need store of value coins for the same reason we need gold bars so the concept behind Bitbar or Bitgold or whatever is sound. You're looking for a currency, nothing stops you from just buying Bitcoins and trading them since they are clearly the most useful coins. But when those coins crash due to volatility then tell me the worth of each coin doesn't matter. When people buy Bitcoins and they find out their $260 purchase is now worth $50 you tell me it doesn't actually matter how much each coin is worth. It does matter when people start putting life savings into it. And yes we need coins for people to put their live savings into and clearly it's not Bitcoin. Bitcoin is being set up to be the default store of value coin. It's valuable, but while it IS currently used for most real world buy something transactions, it's not very good at it, due to block times and long waits for confimation. It's got a good setup as a savings account, but not so much as a checking account. And we are on the same side here. What I'm promoting is virtual commodity coins which take on the role of default store of value so Bitcoins can evolve into a currency. Bitcoins will never evolve into a currency when there are no coins worth more than Bitcoins to put our savings into. When I want to put my savings somewhere right now Bitcoin is a better place than the banks, maybe even could be better than gold someday, but that is not what Bitcoin was designed for and that is not going to be good for the long term viability of Bitcoin. Bitcoin has to transition into becoming a currency and the way to speed this up is to create virtual commodities so people can take their Bitcoins and buy these commodities and let these commodities go way up in $ value so that if Bitcoin goes down then through diversification our life savings, retirement, etc are safe. The idea of buying gold bars is silly, but the idea of buying virtual gold bars makes a lot of sense if you buy them with Bitcoins and who knows maybe something like Bitplatinum could come along and we can buy that when the price of Bitcoins is sinking and protect our selves knowing the value of Bitplatinum will never really lose it's $ value. The niche exists, fill it and Bitcoin and Litecoin can become currencies. This would mean the price of Bitcoin and Litecoin would have to be around $60-70 not $100+. Eventually the Bitcoin price would even go down as people buy the virtual commodities for their long term investment purchases. Sigh. Why does bitcoin have to be the currency? Why does ANY specific coin have to be the currency? Let things evolve to what they're best suited for, not for what YOU think that they would be best suited for. Use what's available instead of trying to force something to work in a way that might be better served by something else. Because the success of all cryptocurrencies depends on the success of Bitcoin. It's not the ideal situation but as of right now there is only really Bitcoin which is going mainstream. Maybe when Litecoin, Namecoin, PPcoin or some others share the spotlight we can stop worrying about making Bitcoin into a currency but right now if Bitcoin does not become a currency then the whole experiment will fail. wow. That's like saying the success of a software company is dependant upon the success of Microsoft. That's ridiculous. Sure, if bitcoin went into some kind of death spiral, say suffering from continuous 51% attacks etc, the alt coins would take a hit. no one's arguing that. And then, the alt coins would start to slowly divorce their value from bitcoin. The reason that people want bitcoins is because bitcoin is the first, it's big name, it's well known. Heads up, Henry Ford was pretty smart, and the Model A WAS an entirely new concept. But while BILLIONS of people are driving automobiles, not too many of them are driving a Model A. Or a Model T, which was even more popular than the Model A. Things progress, through trial and error. people try things, and they work better or they don't. And then they try MORE new things, and THOSE things work better or they don't. That's just how it is. Has been forever. Will always be. They can't. Litecoins can never be more valuable than Bitcoin and can never divorce their value from Bitcoin because Bitcoins are more scarce than Litecoins. So if Bitcoins fail then so will Litecoins. Namecoins and PPcoins have a chance because they are significantly different and currently as scarce or more scarce than Bitcoins. Mincoin has a chance if it's actively developed, but Litecoin, Chinacoin, Feathercoin and all those coins with double, triple, or x10 as many total cap as Bitcoin will not be able to divorce their value from Bitcoin. The reason for this is when Bitcoin prices crash no one is going to think "yeah let me go buy some of them Litecoins that are worth 0.3 the value of Bitcoins!". What people think is "Let me cash out right now, this is stupid!". I study the charts all day and when Bitcoin goes down so does Litecoin and all the other coins which follow that style of expanding the total cap. The coins which seem to not be tied to Bitcoin are PPcoin which are scarce, Mincoin which are scarce, etc. My point is I need coins to put my money in when Bitcoin is volatile and I don't want to have to sell out. I beg you pardon? PPCoin are scarce? What's the total market cap of PPCoin, sir? |
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Price discovery phase. End of speculative mania. Sounds good, right?
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If the guys making the charts could actually predict the market movements, they'd be rich and they wouldn't be on here making charts trying to convince people.
\troll Yeah, that's not like any of us bought BTCs years ago because we predicted it would go up.  Anyhow, a little introduction to TA for the interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIdzeC77eOo&list=UUL9No2CVecC_8WazyduwHawYou buying BTC in 2011 had nothing to do with TA or charts. Give yourself the credit for that, you saw the potential (I've read your posts). No, I wasn't defending TA with this, simply pointing out that "they'd be rich and they wouldn't be on here making charts" wasn't exactly true. (With a tongue-in-cheek, I must admit.) Edit: I saw the potential, but I was also too entrenched to recognize a possibility of a bear market. Now at least I'm sitting on the fence. For me it's the opposite. I was convinced about a bear market the very first days, and at each crash I thought the bottom would have been lower ($30ish during the crash to $50, $60 when we went to $80). But I was too pessimistic. I still think we can go quite lower short term, but I'm now pretty much convinced that $50 was the real bottom. In my book, thats quite bullish - heck, we where at $14 at the beginning of this year |
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Respectfully, it is surprising to me that with your attention to semantics you missed the distinguishing point that I made.
Of course I take for granted that doubling of bitcoin price every 30 days is not something that can go on forever,
The market has already demonstrated that the January to March trendline was not sustainable - the crash from $266 fell right through it. One must have numerical blinders on not to recognize bitcoin prices cannot double every thirty days indefinitely.
What I actually said was that the notion is unsustainable. If bitcoin stops going up, then obviously the notion, i.e. belief that it will keep doublling upwards every 30 days, becomes less prevalent - right?
I agree with oda.krell in principle, however pragmatically speaking you are 100% correct here. Doubling every 30 days would be a 4000-fold increase each year. I think double every 6 months or so would be much more reasonable/sustainable. If you think that is slow, you should recalculate. Bitcoin would reach trillion dollar market size within 5 years, if we experienced such "moderate" growth starting now  Both oda.krell and SlipperySlope are correct. Bitcoin huge potential is scary in itself. It's a wild motherfucker, and as soon as it gets so big that the powerful realize that it will truly endanger their position, they will have to make a call. Freedom, greed and fear - all these elements play a fundamental role in bitcoin. And its growing. |
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The truth is that this post went through a lot of different phases. First cheering joy. Then, doubts start spreading. After than, burst of irrational anger. Insults and accusations fly all over the place. Suddenly, denial. And finally, acceptance |
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1000 BTC sold . Price didn't move much.
I think there is plenty more where that came from. enough to satisfy demand? That's the point. I say yes, ATM. I'm sure you agree |
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re reading the OP, I see two distinct sections. The people should vote which coins are legitimate, which is almost a good idea, but there is a ton of abuse there. If a new fantastic coin wanted to come in, something completely different and actually deserved a shot, people could see it as a threat, and vote no out of own self interest, and then it would be inhibited.
I do like the prefix idea, but that is really up for users to establish themselves, just getting into the habit of it. I could create a sticky to raise awareness and try and get people into the habit, to see if that would catch on, doesn't sound like it could do any harm really.
There are to be no sub-subforums within the alt currency subforum, but maybe the tags will help cut down on the clutter that readers have to sift through. Really the only way I see things being fully resolved, is if the new coins take a break from being made every 10 minutes. But that wont happen until its no longer profitable to do so, so either everyone has to be on board with letting the coins that aren't worth while die, or just roll with the blows.
If any, the prefixes should be implemented and there should be a filter for them. Should make things a lot easier for the active users of that particular coin. Actually there's no point for an "alternate cryptocurrencies" subforum. Yes, Bitcoin was their daddy - but now alt currencies should have grown up and live their own life. You created the latest flash-ponzi, pump&dump scheme, and you want to promote it hard? Grow a pair of balls and make your own forum (like LTC has), or create an "altcointalk.org" for all this stuff. Every time I click "Show unread posts since last visit" 90% of the post displayed have nothing to do with Bitcoin |
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However, invest only what you can afford to lose, is not what you are applying in my opinion.
Sure, when you start out with the 5k, few percent of your capital, you do, but the $5k became $5 million in your example, which now represents say 95% of your capital. Can you honestly say at that point that you are 'investing in bitcoin only what you can afford to lose'?
Investing is a continuous activity. If you really continuously invest in bitcoin only what you can afford to lose, then you keep your exposure at a low percentage.
Really good point. "What you can afford to lose" is always changing, in some sense. Well in one sense if you keep the same lifestyle and aren't in debt, you could "afford to lose" your Bitcoin millions. But in another sense, if you had recently won the lottery and had $5 million of new money representing 95% of your wealth, would you really think it wise to put almost all of it into bitcoins to play the "binary bet"!?  This (bolded part). I understand both you and "rationalspeculator" points, but I do not agree with them. I live comfortably on what I generate with my job. I have and I always had 0 debt - in fact I really don't understand how US citizens take loans for everything... jeez man, to buy new furniture for the house too, how crazy is that? In my book, what you cannot pay cash, you cannot afford. This includes cars and real estate. But that's another story. What I mean is that my life won't change a bit if BTC goes to 0. And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying "hold every single bitcoin till you die". I have already established clear exit points for 50% of my BTC holdings. If all those points are reached, my life will improve A LOT, and I will still keep 50% of my current holdings till the very end. |
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We need to simply wipe out the "alternate cryptocurrencies" subforums from bitcointalk.org
You create your own alternate cryptocurrency? Fine, create your own forums for it.
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While I generally agree that holding is the better strategy, it is incorrect to say you could've bought 52,000 BTC for $5,000. In the real world, as soon as you start buying, you push the price up. This is a common misconception for all the arguments that start with "back in 2011, if you had bought X number of BTC"... the fact is, the price was low back then because nobody was buying 50k BTC, and not the other way around.
Nevertheless, buy and hold is a MUCH better strategy than trying to predict market swings where the number of unknown variables is as high as it is with Bitcoin.
True, with the market depth we had back then, buying $5,000 worth of coins would have pushed the price very hard - let's say that you would have bought half of what I said ( BTC53,000). My point still stands, obviously. |
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Do you know if it's possible to find somewhere a bid sum graph for 2011?
Not that I know of. It would be interesting to see how fast the money was taken out from Gox's order book, compared to today - don't you think so? Actual figure seems pretty healthy. |
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I care about short term future price.
I'm not sure I agree with the words of wisdom.
1. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
If I follow such advise I end up investing only a few percent of my capital in anything. Losing more then a few percent means I need to reduce my lifestyle.
However, investing only a few percent will not allow me to increase my lifestyle if it works out. Basically investing a few percent won't make a difference for me, when it goes down, or when it goes up.
I think this is generally true for most people.
Just to check. Do you follow that advice yourself? How much percent of your capital is invested in Bitcoin today? Can you really afford to lose this? What would be the impact on your life if this were to happen?
2. The worst thing you can do is to sell too cheap (i mean right now).
If bitcoins become cheaper in the future this statement will have empirically proven to be wrong, not?
I follow my own advice. And I will demonstrate you something empyrically: on 10th, September 2010 you could have bought BTC52,361 for $5,000 (the price per 1BTC was $0.095). One year later, that amount of BTC was worth $210k dollars. If you could afford to lose $5,000, you might have followed my advice and HOLDED. I know many who did. If you couldn't afford to lose $5,000, and as in September 2011 we were in the middle of multi-month bear market, you would have sold to secure your "amazing" profits. Now make the calculations with the current price, and you will realize how much money you would have lost in just one year and a half for not being cold minded enough to hold onto your BTC53,361 The following statement was just empirically proven wrong in the recent past: However, investing only a few percent will not allow me to increase my lifestyle if it works out As I said earlier, BTC is a gamble - and the real winners will be the ones with the balls to hold till the last minute. If you invested an amount you cannot afford to lose, from one side you are a fool because Bitcoin is beta software, and it can go south at any minute. Not acknowledging this is plain and simply delusional. And secondly, I can guarantee that you will not be one of the real winners, because you will have trembling hands as soon as a deep crash puts in danger your investment, and thus you will not be able to hold till you are really set for life. However, invest only what you can afford to lose, is not what you are applying in my opinion. Sure, when you start out with the 5k, few percent of your capital, you do, but the $5k became $5 million in your example, which now represents say 95% of your capital. Can you honestly say at that point that you are 'investing in bitcoin only what you can afford to lose'? I simply do not agree with you. My savings are composed by X fiat and X BTC. I don't multiply the total amount of BTC I own x the USD/BTC exchange rate. I think this is the difference between you an me: you want to speculate with bitcoins to produce fiat profits. On the contrary, I made a gamble with bitcoins - if I lose, let's be it. If BTC truly succeeds, my life really changed. I knew this was my choice from the very beginning. Why? Because BTC can change the world, it has an amazing potential - and I believe my strategy is the only one that will enable me to maximize that potential. Because BTC is extremely risky, and in my opinion my strategy is the only wise one - with it I have my soul in peace. Then: use the search tool in these forums. Check the 2010 and 2011 posts. You will read about people that had hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins that cashed out just one year ago... To buy a nice flat (for example: http://sc5.io/blog/2013/02/sc5er-intro-the-bitcoin-guy/). Well, I've made a choice: I'm in it for the long term. Sure, I can accept using a little part of my BTC to buy something I cannot afford with my fiat savings - let's say a nice car. But I'm sure as hell that I'm not here to reap fiat profits, I will not let greed or fear to take over, because everyone who did that made a mistake. I'm here to play this game till the very end. |
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Man, look at the guy. Are you sure that it's him? He looks like a homeless. I thought he was scamming just because he is a sociopath, but it looks like he really needs the money. BTCguy: if that guy is really you, I'm willing to donate.
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Volume tends to build on itself. Given the Gox commision structure (flat % regardless of order size). There is little incentive to trade unless the market is volitile. Overall, stability is good, low volume should lead to stability in exchange rate, which should lead to more businesses accepting BTC, which should lead to slowly increasing exchange rate. Be happy that we have low volume on the exchanges.
This is true. However, it has been very boring lately! Perhaps I like it a little more exciting? It was a huge adrenalin rush when the price was going up like crazy! I think if there is a day where it starts to jump really fast people will panic and start buying again. I think there are many people just waiting it out, with so low buy orders, to see if it goes down again but will buy when a new rush begins. Just my thoughts. Rush won't start anytime soon. And this is good. Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. |
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"Get rich quick schemes" my ass
This is the musical chairs, only purpose is to see who are the imbecills that are left holding the bag. Flash-light ponzi schemes, that's it.
IMO "alternate cryptocurrencies" should just disappear from these forums. It should be wiped out. Let's every alt coin to have their own forums, so at least the "developers" will have to work a little bit more to promote their "get rich quick" schemes.
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I have a device ordered and I believe they are ridiculously incompetent more than anything else. My worry is less about them being a scam or not but the fact that if they do not deliver, in 2-3 month, avalon chips will be deployed and my ROI on my BFL preorder will pretty much double or triple their original estimation. Part of me feels I should take refund and buy ASICminer shares instead.
It depends on when you ordered. If you ordered 1 Jalapeņo in July 2012, you might get it in 3 months. But that's VERY optimistic. Super optimistic. A gamble in itself. If you ordered a Jalapeņo in 2013, you won't get your order this year. If you ordered a Mini Rig, regardless of the order date, you will never get it. If you ordered a single or little single, regardless of the order date, you won't get your order this year. That's the reality. And yes, I'm an early BFL customer. And i'm not asking for a refund just because I paid in Bitcoins, so an USD refund would just be a slap in my f**** face. I took a gamble, and I lost big time. But anyhow I will keep telling the truth to anyone asking. |
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Agreed. The rise of new alt coins I think is also influenced by btc-e adding new coins that arent worth anything and giving them a value.... People see this as a opportunity to make some extra money.
An opportunity to scam - the only business model here is to be the first one in and the first one out. Again: you have to be an idiot to participate in this pump&dump schemes. |
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You are talking about removing a right from all of the JR Members, solely for an Alt Coin issue.
Not specifically for the issue of alt coins, but the influx of new members has been massive. A lot of them obviously not reading or abiding by board rules and arriving for the sole purpose of launching alcoins, colluding on sales and scamming people. JR members would still be able to post inside topics as usual etc. I am just getting sick and tired of every board being populated by scams and sale/purchase threads by people that have no idea of etiquette and common sense. Anyhow, you have to be an idiot to participate in 99% of the scam coins that are being launched en masse lately. If people is eager to be scammed... Well, what can we do? So be it. |
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