You are comparing apples to oranges. People are not going to run large scale mining needed to secure today's network at a loss. You can't compare that to a few people running CPU's or GPU's. Mining profitability is a major issue for Bitcoin survival.
I totally agree that no one is expected to act unless there is a profit motive. But that is how it scales. When prices are high it is worth the investment in equipment. When they crash hard and mining is not profitable, some mines will close. Because of open competition we should always be at about the lowest profitable transaction fee. That may not be enough for a large scale mine, but it will be enough for someone.
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So let me get this straight, a guy I've never heard of says something is going to happen? Something he can't say, but it could be good or bad for the bitcoin economy. Just wanted to recap and clarify. Which I was not able to do. ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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Looks like another reporter just heard about bitcoin. He has done his due diligence and spent 20 mins. googling "What is bitcoin?" Now he's an expert! ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) do you have to be an expert to use Bitcoin? If YES, then say it straight. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) IF NOT then it is not so hard to see that Bitcoin is bubble and only few people are earning from it. It is OK but admit that ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Bitcoin will not dissapear as system, the so called "exchangers" will dissapear because they will be closed very soon. The first ones will be from USA. Either BitPay, either Coinbase. I do know more than most. I've been doing this since 2010 and I've seen a lot. But a true expert would also have a degree in cryptography and economics. No one knows the future however, least of all an internet reporter who does not even understand what a ponzi is. I do have to disagree about the exchanges. BitPay and Coinbase are crushing it. There is just too much money on the table for no one to jump in. In the US there are some legal stumbling blocks, but bitcoin is a global phenomena and many places it's easy to set up.
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Bought at $170, spent at $186. Missed some gains, but took some profits. It's all good.
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Looks like another reporter just heard about bitcoin. He has done his due diligence and spent 20 mins. googling "What is bitcoin?" Now he's an expert! ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Well said Smoothie. There is a lot of emotion in the bitcoin economy and it does not come from the code. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Oh, the poster above beat me to it. Read the whitepaper. That is what all this bitcoin talk is about. The link is also in my sig.
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Btw I wonder how you got named as the Chief Scientist for the Bitcoin Foundation when you don't have a background in cryptography and only came to know Bitcoin later. How did you climbed the ladder so fast Mr. Bell a.k.a Andresen?
Well his background is that he is a computer scientist, that's how. And he worked with Satoshi early on. He's not new at all to bitcoin.
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Who is Andreas Antonopoulos and why should we give a shit what he says?
He's like the jesus of Bitcoin, number one authority, Bitcoin spokesman etc... If there's a single face of Bitcoin it's Andreas Antonopoulos. He's just another guy like you and me. Nobody is special in bitcoin, IMO. P.S.: Why did you change his quote for the title? ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Thanks for posting this. Interesting thoughts. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Many of us thought about the fundamentals pretty deeply 3 or 4 years ago. Nothing's changed, except massive development and expansion of the ecosystem.
+1 pretending to 'think deeply' doesn't change your charts. The charts are proof your 'deep thinking' is worth jack shit. Stop with the bucket-bong, you deep-thinking potheads. Oh I think they are spot on. It's the fundamental utility of bitcoin that I look at also. The price is a function of a bunch of amateur speculators. The utility is what has attracted smart money. The fastest, safest and cheapest payment network is worth billions. Whatever you say. You specifically have been seen to advise people to hold and buy all year long. You, sir are a failure. Not sure where you get that. I do not advise ANY speculation. But if this is failure, bring it! I have spent more than 10 times what I bought. I buy guns, vacations, electronics, camping gear, dinners, pounds of gold, etc. The trick is having a strategy and the discipline to follow that strategy. I don't just make it up as I go. I have specific mathematical formulas for buying when the price is right and I never put in money that I need elsewhere.
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Government DOES want to keep us under their thumb... so THEY can rape and plunder us with power company ripoff, using fear of EMP, while they don't let us do anything about it. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I dunno man. If the government launched an EMP attack in the US they would be the primary loser. It would destroy millions of cars and other things with electrical circuits. It would require billions and billions to rebuild. For what? That's not the point. The point is that they are scaring us into a fearful frenzy so we don't know which way to go. With the efficiency of modern diesel engines, we don't need power companies any more. But, if we realized it, we would move towards freedom, and they don't want that. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Let's scare them back and talk about on site solar electricity. They certainly don't want to buy electricity from you when they sell it to you now. Perhaps in the future their only revenue will come from renting out the transmission grid so that users can share/sell what they generate? Now that is scary! lol
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Many of us thought about the fundamentals pretty deeply 3 or 4 years ago. Nothing's changed, except massive development and expansion of the ecosystem.
+1 pretending to 'think deeply' doesn't change your charts. The charts are proof your 'deep thinking' is worth jack shit. Stop with the bucket-bong, you deep-thinking potheads. Oh I think they are spot on. It's the fundamental utility of bitcoin that I look at also. The price is a function of a bunch of amateur speculators. The utility is what has attracted smart money. The fastest, safest and cheapest payment network is worth billions.
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Let me understand. You bought in cheap and are telling noobs to buy now or to hodl even if they bought in late. That's getting people screwed.
I never tell anyone what to do. I buy all the time and spend all the time. I largely ignore the price. And I certainly do not speculate or invest in bitcoin, that would be very risky unless you spend more than you put in. At that point you are using the casinos money and who cares what happens? I have been advising to get out of BTC since forever ago. We went down quite a lot, people lost a lot.
Well, once you trade BTC for cash or buy something when the price is low you have locked in your loss. People who are holding, which I don't recommend, may still realize profits. You have only lost when you sell low. So you are helping people get screwed and you are asking me if *I* lost money or "missed the train?". How exactly does that work?
The businesses I have helped love bitcoin. I advise them to use a service like BitPay or Coinbase. They face zero volatility risk, are paid in minuets, and make an extra 3% on each sale. There is absolutely NO GUARANTEE this will go back up like it did in the past. This is serious shit, people are losing real money son.
I agree. There are few guarantees in life. Anyone who thought "investing" serious money in bitcoin was seriously mistaken about what bitcoin is. It goes up and down on demand alone. That's a brutal but fair market, if you have the stomach for it. I prefer to buy some then use them as a way to spend on the internet.
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Just because bitcoin was pumped&dumped several times in the past doesn't make it a good investment.
Stop scamming noobs into losing money.
Are you a noob? Did you lose money? ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) My guess, this is his second account. He lost all his money with the other account because a guy on the internet said he could double his money. Fukin bitcoin.
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Government DOES want to keep us under their thumb... so THEY can rape and plunder us with power company ripoff, using fear of EMP, while they don't let us do anything about it. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I dunno man. If the government launched an EMP attack in the US they would be the primary loser. It would destroy millions of cars and other things with electrical circuits. It would require billions and billions to rebuild. For what?
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the fundamentals of bitcoin allowed for this big miningindustry and hashpower in the first place. Compare here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=918068.0All the incentive to miners and no incentive to investors (other than its novelty). Bitcoin is just inefficient and a black hole for investors money. It uses huge electricity and supports far too big miningindustry. Sure, Bitcoin works best when it's 6 cents, i would agree on that. Again, it's just like gold. When mining gold was panning in a stream it was easy. Now you must buy a 10 million mine and equipment. Gold pays for all this, until the price drops and they close all the mines. It's a brutal business. All incentive to miners? I have never mined or sold a bitcoin, but I have made huge profits. And I never "invest" in bitcoin.
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The strongest argument against this is incentive. The Chinese could not afford an EMP attack. Any such attack would be limited in scale but huge in geopolitical relations. They would become a pariah state. China has become the most powerful nation by selling stuff to the west. If that went away they would be hurting more than us. We wold not be plunged into the stone age. The effect would cause chaos in one or two cities, But we could fix it all in a few months tops. A nationwide EMP would require a thermonuclear war that would make the the EMP part trivial.
I'm sure the Chinese, and every other country, are interested in EMPs. They could be used to knock out satellites or specific targets. But the context is using them as part of a broader war, by themselves they will only piss off your enemy.
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We keep forgetting that bitcoin does not need money to live, you do, but not bitcoin. This is also a difference between bitcoin and a traditional financial instrument like a stock or bond. Those things do need money or they will crash and leave the issuer insolvent. At that point a stock could be worthless. Not so with BTC. As long as two people on Earth are using it the system will work fine. I'm one... Anyone want to second that?
Bitcoin needs a constant money supply to support the operation of mining computers. True. But it worked fine when bitcoins were $0.06. It may not support the big mines with fancy ASICs, but bitcoin does not care about them either. It's kinda like gold. Most of the time gold mining is not profitable and most mines close. When the price goes up they open the mines again.
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More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer? Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized. Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element. Safer? yes. No system is as safe as bitcoin. By comparison credit cards are a joke. There are scams everywhere but those who "invest" in scams are not exposing a bitcoin risk, they are the risk. The FDIC insurance does protect your money. However you could also insure your bitcoins. Like any insurance, you have to pay for it. I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves. We must be using different versions of the word 'safe' then. Bitcoin is as far from safe as you can get for the average person. I don't think we are in disagreement. I just meant that when used properly bitcoin is very safe. But yes, if you are treating it like your FB account then you may be robbed.
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