I (and many many many others) believe that vaccines increase one's chances of falling victim to certain negative health impacts.  That does not mean that everyone who gets vaccinated will, or that someone who has not been vaccinated will not.  It's all about the odds.  This really should not be that difficult.

The percentage of the population with negative health impacts from probably a variety of factors is quite high as evidenced by the rates of prescription drug use.  Plotting vaccines doses against negative health issues shows a correlation (not causation.)  Personally I suspect that such things as chronic mycoplasma infections are probably more impactive on overall health than immune system dysfunction caused by vaccines, though vaccines seem to be a vector for some of these infections due to certain necessities involved in their manufacture.  And it is kind of a fact that a lot of these were developed as non-lethal biological warfare agents though it is not clear that our infection rates from the so developed strains were deliberate, accidental, or none of the above.  I suspect that food is also a significant source of problems these days.

As for 'seeing', sometimes one doesn't see the forest for the trees.  I've seen autism rates go from something like 1/10,000 when I was a kid to something like 1/60.  With all our wonderful science somehow we just can't seem to figure it out (shrugs.)  Ya, ya, 'better diagnosis, blah, blah, blah'.  Two+ orders of magnitude?  Not buying it and neither are most nurses and doctors when they are willing to speak freely.  Millennials here in the U.S. have never known a time when 2/3 of the population didn't wander around like zombies but I do.  Even we who remember the 70's look back at films of people from the 50's in awe.

Technically I'm an engineer FWIW.  Or was when last working formally.

You are not saying anything so there are no 'implications'.
If you think you are, just believe me you aren't

And btw, if I wear my white lab coat and eye protection when I post then it's 'science'.

We've earlier established that you have a reading deficit so it would not be a surprise to find one in mathematics as well.  NDD?  Similac baby?  Here are some study words for the day:  'likely', 'possibility', 'less', 'more'.

As an aside, it's worth note that between 60% and 70% of Americans, depending on who's study one uses, now take prescription drugs for one chronic condition or another (and often multiple of them.)  I have no doubt that TPTB would like to see that be up around 90%, and we're getting there.

From: http://smartvax.org/2011/04/29/allergy-and-anaphylaxis-history/

Of course with our modern vaccinations and schedules there are no longer any problems with allergies and no company makes any money selling medicine to people to treat them in a life-long palliative manner.

And so few autoimune related issues either.

No 'scientific' total health outcome studies comparing vaxxed vs. unvaxxed somehow.  Much to difficult I guess.  Hey, here's a very recent article I'd not seen:

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/2016-health-study-on-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-pulled-from-publication-after-it-found-vaxxed-kids-more-likely-to-get-autism_122016


So you can choose for your kids between the possibility of getting a mild rash (or, to be fair, vicious cough for some weeks) and life-long immunity, or possibly being converted into a life-long retard or life-long consumer of expensive pharma offerings to help with the misery of not being able to breath half the time.  Your choice.*

_{(*)not applicable in the state of California.}

For those who are unaware, there is nothing particularly new about the leadership class being highly interested in injecting their peeps, the peeps sensing a problem, and tensions coming to a head:

http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/revolts-and-opposition-against-compulsory-smallpox-vaccination/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Revolt

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

A better question is, 'if vaccines are safe, why the need for liability immunity for the pharma companies who make them?'

It's worse than just that these companies make them.  They also do most of the research as well.  Supposedly entities like the CDC look over the research, but for all intents and purposes the pharma industry owns the CDC.  Personnel at the CDC do their time in 'public service' then walk right through the revolving door to make real money in the 'private sector'...as long as they play ball.  Look at the head of CDC under Bush, Julie Gerberding; she went straight on to become president of Merck’s Vaccine division.

Lots of cannibalism around, and you might be one if you eat at Micky-D's accd to this:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VINntL5cVrM

It's actually pretty funny in a The Onion sort of a way.  Apropos to this thread however.  I wonder if it is associated with the new 'fake news' psy-op.  I kind of doubt it because it is a little bit to clownish, particularly if one follows the links.  But who knows?

Sites which don't have an easy-to-find and easy-to-use comments section are a big red flag saying 'fake news' to me.  I also try to look at news sources from all sides even if I have to force myself, but when one does not have a comments section, I strike it of my list.

Basically 'fake news' cannot survive when there is a comments section.  When they publish fake news it is immediately called out.  I often skim the comments before taking the time to really read the article (as opposed to quickly skimming it.)

Another class of news outfit will have a comments section, but it is highly edited.  Unfortunately the only way to find that out is to make a comment which has no reason to be scrubbed except that it makes a good counter-point, then see it be scrubbed anyway.  I've learned from experience that both OregonLive and TYT are both in this category.  OregonLive is some on-line implementation of one of the state of Oregon's main print newspapers.

If one has been bitten by a rabid animal it makes sense to use rabies vaccine.  One has a very high odds of getting the disease and the disease has a very high mortality (100%).  It's a particularly unpleasant death as well.

There are other cases where vaccination works and makes sense.  The big problem is that the ability to properly use risk/reward decision making is completely broken in our world of pseudo-science, propaganda, and crony economics.  One doesn't need to dig very deep into this issue to see that some weird stuff is going on, but what exactly it is isn't very clear.

'Fake news' is about as old as media itself.  Although the 2000 election was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and I stopped putting any confidence in the mainstream media at that time, they took a serious turn for the worse when certain restrictions on corporate consolidations were lifted (Bush Jr. timeframe IIRC) and again in 2013 when the resources of the military and CIA were allowed/instructed to invent reality from scratch and started doing so in earnest.

The thing about 'fake news' is that it can give a guy a serious advantage when one understands it and how to read it.  Knowing that the CNNs, FoxNews, and NPRs of the world exist to lie to and manipulate Joe Public, one can read between the lines (literally) how the world really is and what the movers and shakers ('TPTB') are up to and where they are trying to 'move their herd'.  Doing just this has contributed to a good outcome for me in economic projects for instance.

I'm not looking forward to increased capabilities as the 'globalists' go about 'Sino-izing' information access in the West because I think it bad for humanity, but opportunities to find silver linings would be created.  Along with dangers of course.  Such opportunities exist for anyone else with an open and quick mind as well.  Opportunities to Just do the right thing if nothing else.

It's worth note that sometimes doing the right by one's fellow human beings also contributes to success in other ways by happenstance from time to time.  My interest in Bitcoin, for instance, was largely due to ethical considerations ('power to the peeps', etc) but also created a windfall in economic terms.

---

I'd give some odds that Criptix is one of the flesh-n-blood perception management operation employees who's assignment includes this forum.  (Let's hope that Trump/Bannon put the pressure on such operations and not just use them for their own ends.)  More likely Criptix is a run-of-the-mill Progressive type doing what he/she thinks right and who may or may not grow out of it someday.

'Never' is a strong term.

I'm probably typical in that I'm not especially or ever remotely 'anti-government'.  I'm 'anti-corrupt-government'.

The 'global climate change' thing is a hoax and a fraud, but it's not really spawned from any particular government level.  It's the brain-child of a group of multi-nationals who have a huge amount of influence in a lot of governments and have made these governments highly corrupt.  That includes my own here in the U.S..

More importantly for the purposes of this discussion, these global interests which have mind-boggling resources at their disposal have had the same impact on academia.  Indeed, they have pretty much succeeded in turning 'science' into a new form of religion.  Typical of religion, the notion of a 'fact' has a different meaning than it does in classical science.

By controlling both academia and government, and by augmenting 'fact' with input injected from other entities which the globalists also control (media, NGO, etc) they have succeeded in 'controlling the narrative' with respect to 'climate change' to a significant degree.  Not as much as they would like to have and need to have however.  Look for this new 'fake news' invention to have an immediate and tangible impact on the climate change discussions.

From an operational point of view, vaccinations programs are (potentially) more effective.  If you force a policy on people they get suspicious, resentful, and disruptive.  If, OTOH, you use propaganda correctly you can get the peeps to gladly pay the costs and a lot more, and to self-enforce policy upon one another.

Note that from the view of a competent Ecologist, there is little difference between having no kid, or having a kid who itself will not have kids for whatever reason; Incapable, unwilling, etc.  Further, a sufficiently damaged kid can be useful to the controllers in a bunch of ways.  The kid(s) can sap a families resources making the family itself more dependent on the state and less likely to or capable of causing problems.  Certain kinds of damage can also make a person more susceptible to propaganda thus reducing the threat and increasing the utility a generation out.

Eugenics can be made to be quite profitable in addition to addressing the primary goals of the practitioner.  In fact, it works a lot better that way because it enlists the support of people who are not necessarily passionate about eugenics programs in and of themselves.  For every 1 eugenics enthusiast there are 1000 people who just want to get rich and don't care much how they do it.

The guy is clearly pretty phony.  Playing to the media, using triple ellipses to pass himself off as a Jew, etc.  My guess is that it's a psy-op to get people to threaten his life and try to paint Trump supporters as violent anti-semites and such.  Yawn.  Probably there will be some bogus false-flag attempt on the guy's life or something.  Might even be 'successful'.  Watch for his mock carcass to be cremated the next day while his perfectly healthy physical body survives to sip pina coladas with Ken Lay, Anton Scalia, etc.

IIRC it was Clinton herself in one of the wikileaks who said that they needed to win the thing or they would all hang.  If half of the circumstantial evidence being turned up by the citizen investigation of the pizzagate associated stuff is on target then there is a fair chance that Hillary's projections could be literally true.  Desperation and panic sets in for a lot of people in and around government and in the media. 

I'll not rest easy until Trump is sworn in and survives 100 days since I don't think there is much that these people would not do.  You are probably right to worry about America destroying the world as long as Obama has the button.  One would hope that he'd be slapped into handcuffs if he tried to push it, but hope is a bad strategy.

I'm sure that a lot of people have some real questions about what the reaction of the peeps would be if something like electorate fraud robbed us of a Trump presidency.  No way to know, but it helps explain the full-court-press against the 2nd amendment over Obama's 8 years.

But a competent snake-oil salesman could see an opportunity here.  Especially one who had effective ownership of the media, the research institutes, the government sponsored 'oversight' organizations, the hospitals, the medical trade organizations, etc.

Of course not.  Somewhat fewer are open to the concept of vote fraud and theft, but still plenty.  The question is, who (if anyone) cares to try to put a stop to what aspects of it, and why?

The $7M that Stein took in for her efforts were sketchy due to the intake profile.  Looked like one of those money laundering scams implemented by setting up an astro-turf project to accept 'donations'.  Most people who noted it blamed Soros.

I'm sort of leaning toward the hypothesis that the effort is funded by the Trump side.  I noticed that Stein just gave a press conference from Trump Tower which is interesting.

The reason for this could be to bore down to instances of election fraud, and if a movement was pretty sure that it would be found, it doesn't matter if it is in Trump-won states.  Indeed, it simply helps the motive forces behind the effort (if my hypothesis is correct) maintain their cover.

I've been hearing widely conflicting reports about what has been found so far.  Some are reporting pretty staggering examples of hard-core fraud.  The reports match the 'narrative' proposed by Bev Harris who is widely considered to be the leading authority in such matters.  That is, specific corrupt jurisdictions producing whatever numbers are necessary to offset the broadly honest jurisdictions in other parts of the state.  As she noted, these counts come in later in the count process because only then is it known that the amount of fraud necessary to flip the state.

If it turns out to be the case that the effort is actually funded by the Trump side, it will be particularly LULZ-worthy that some mouth-breathing Democrats chipped in with their own hard-earned dollars to participate.  This especially if Dr. Stein pockets the unused money.

If someone offered me the choice between a mild childhood ailment when every kid got once and I got to take a week off 4th grade, or a lifetime of booster shots and a very good chance of getting mumps at any time anyway (since even the boosters often fail) and a chance of infertility when I did get the disease, I'll take the former.

The ecology of many of these diseases and the interactions with human populations seem to be that the natural profile results in the fewest severe problems.  Chicken-pox seems also to be in this category.  A segment of the younger people seems to be acting as a natural booster for the rest and thus shingles is reduced in older people.  It was theorized even before chicken-pox was added to the vaccination schedule that shingles would become more prevalent, and that's what happened.  The reaction was that big pharma developed a shingles vaccination also.  The trouble (for us peeps) was that it didn't work for shit at detering shingles but it worked fine for big pharma since they made some bucks off it.

Basically, as long as the vaccine manufactures don't have to worry about liability for problems, they can make a ton of money off vaccines, and a much much larger amount of money off people who are sickened by the vaccines when they provoke auto-immune related problems which are skyrocketing.  Better yet, with a system like Obamacare the medical system generally and big pharma in particular can charge anything they wish for 'products and services'.  Even someone without money is a profitable victim because someone with money will pick up the tab.

The big race here between 'the elite' and 'the peeps' seems to be whether us peeps will wise up to the game or die off before we do.  Most people get smart only after they get sick and start researching this stuff, but by that time they are broke and sick and it's harder for them to be effective at making a difference.

Seems that in the case of whooping cough, for instance, being vaccinated can turn one into a permanent asymptomatic carrier of the wild strain.  And therefore should go live on a desert island for the benefit of the rest of us.

Mumps is another interesting case.  Get this no-big-deal bug as a child as I did and you have life-long immunity.  Get vaccinated (which is less and less effective requiring Merck to engage in outright fraud in order to maintain their monopoly on MMR) and you get mumps after puberty when it can cause infertility in males.  Search 'mumps outbreak university'.

Of course infertility among the peeps is not at all a bad thing to many in leadership positions (like our current science czar, Holdren, under Obama.)

I do believe that some kinds of vaccines can be 'effective' (and to a lesser degree 'safe') in certain situations such as a pandemic or biological warfare environment.  In such situations the risk/reward ratio is well outside the norm.  In 'normal' circumstances it makes little sense to me to vaccinate for non-problems when a vaccination regime could be implemented if/when needed.

One of the justifications for giving vaccine manufacturers immunity in the legal system was that they would then maintain production capacity to a point where it could conceivably meet unusual challenges as above described.

If should have been anticipated that they would use their own legal immunity to make tons of money with which to capture the regulatory system.  When they did just that, it should have been the case that the abuse was ended.  Clearly this has not happened either, and I attributed it to being the case that the same parties who implemented the regulatory capture (by buying/intimidating politicians) have done the same with many other sectors including, most importantly, academia and the press.

Another factor which I'm increasingly convinced is involved is outlined in the following quote.  I've not yet transcribed it to this particular thread.  For well over a century since science came into it's own, a class of elites have recognized the utility of biology, endocrinology, etc.  Just as a people can change their leadership, the leadership can change their people:


Another formation of the quote an others from the author who was in the upper ranks of elite philosophy at his time:  http://www.whale.to/b/russell_h.html  I think it more than fair to suspect that Russell's ideas were in part a transcript of the programs underway by his peers and also formed at least a rough map which has been followed since by the same.

This thread separates 'the diner' from 'the dinner' about two weeks after the failure of the transportation systems servicing the major centers of population here in the U.S..  And in most of the 'civilized' world for that matter.

Actually it probably does not.  I suspect that there will be no particular correlation between what people spout out on this thread and what their actions in actual practice might be.

It's a pretty fair bet that every one of us alive today owe our existence to survival cannibalism practiced among our ancestors.  In the case of many of our East Asian peers, tracing the tree back only a small integer number of generations would be sufficient to find it.