It seems to me that it really does not matter very much if any of us accumulate bitcoin over some arbitrary point, such as having at least 1 BTC..

yeah, sure some people get these kinds of dumb and arbitrary round numbers in their head, but it does not matter.  Bitcoin has 8 digits.. so there are a lot of fairly arbitrary BTC/satoshi accumulation goals that people can pick, aim for or even try to maintain once getting to that point.

Don't get me wrong.  On a personal level, it is good that we attempt to tailor goals for ourselves, and it is also good that if we do establish goals for ourselves then we figure out ways to work towards establishing them, so we may have some goals that we know are for sure attainable and then longer goals that may or may not be attainable but would be the goals that we work towards after achieving the lower level goals...

When I first got into bitcoin in late 2013, many folks had goals to get up to 100 BTC. but then as the price went up, then the goals changed, and maybe became 50 or 21 or 10 or now maybe 1 BTC or perhaps, there may well be needs to lower the threshold to satoshi measurements as other users had already mentioned.. so maybe start the goal out to get to 1 million satoshis, then 21 million than of course if we get to 100 million satoshis, then we have reached 1 BTC.. which may or may not be reachable for any of us... depending on how much we are able to invest as a lump sum, or on a regular basis or perhaps over several years into the future.


Yes this can be challenging to continue to raise the amount of BTC that you have over the years, and sometimes mistakes are made along the way.  I would speculate that folks who focus on ONLY accumulating bitcoin, until they reach some BTC/wealth accumulation threshold values should be able to constantly increase their BTC over the years, so long as they focus on ONLY buying and keeping their BTC in safe places in order that they do not lose any BTC... so within this example, anyone who  actually ends up selling any BTC would be on a sell and replace kind of practice, and so if we continue to accumulate BTC in this manner, then our BTC stash should ONLY be going up.

One of the difficulties is that people will sometimes start to try to trade their BTC prior to having had accumulated BTC at or above their goal level.. and then if any of us sell our BTC and try to buy back more later, then we run chances that we could well end up with less BTC and unable to buy back as much BTC as we had once had.

Once you reach your BTC accumulation target level, then it would make sense that with the passage of time that your BTC amount would go down.. but if you are still in BTC accumulation mode, then ideally the BTC accumulation amount should not start to go down until after you have reached your target amounts.


Of course, there is going to be country to country variation, and also there are classes of people within countries too.. so some folks are more rich than others.  Accordingly, there are going to be places in which it is easier to accumulate greater levels of wealth, so long as you are able to manage your money, and there are going to be places in which there are challenges to earn very much money.. to be able to buy BTC, likely you mentioned.. that's part of the reason why focusing on 1 BTC or some random number like that might be somewhat arbitrary and abstract because it does not mean anything in respect to your particular circumstances.


Surely, it is not a bad idea to frame these kinds of BTC accumulation abilities ideas in terms of how much money that you are able to make.  Are you ONLY able to make minimum wage?  Are there ways that you are able to earn more than minimum wage?

If you are able to invest 10% of your annual income into BTC, then it may well take you 10 years to have had invested Up-to your annual wage amount into BTC, and of course, if you can invest 20%, then you will be able to achieve investing your annual wage in 5 years, so then the question might become in regards to how long does it take you to be able to get to a certain investment level, and where are you going to put that investment value in terms of hoping that the value will either sustain itself (at worse) or better if the value is able to increase with the passage of time. 

Of course, many of us regular BTC advocates believe that bitcoin is either the best or amongst the best of places to store your value and in order to consider that you would have decently good chances of being able to hold your value or to increase the value contained in that investment with the passage of time, so even if it might well end up taking you 10 years to invest up to 1 years worth of wages, you are also likely to get growth in the value of that investment while it is sitting in BTC... no need to be greedy and to search for ways to enhance your investment and likely is better to preserve the value by building it and making sure that you keep your BTC safe so that you do not lose any of it over the time that you are building it.. whether that is 10 years or 20 years or maybe even longer than that.


I am not opposed to using debt to front load your investment timeline, but you have to be careful NOT to be too greedy in terms of making sure that you are able to service the debt with other sources than the item that you are investing into.  Of course it is better if you are able to assure that your investment into BTC goes up during the period that your loan is outstanding, yet there are no guarantees that BTC prices are going up.. so in that regard, you have to lessen the chances that you will get totally recked rather than merely just making your situation worse off because of your having had gone into debt... I am not opposed to debt as long as you have a variety of means to service the debt besides merely praying that your BTC goes up.. and that would be called leveraged gambling rather than being smart, reasonable and prudent.


I agree.  It does not really matter very much if you earn the money in bitcoin or in fiat, you still have to figure out how much value that you want to keep in each, and so earning in BTC will likely cause you to have to sell way more frequently than other people who are earning in fiat.  If you have bills in fiat, then you likely still have to make sure that you keep some of your balances in fiat so that you can attempt to choose the time that you are selling your BTC rather than holding onto too much BTC and then not being able to cover your expenses.


For someone like you, it might be difficult to get to 1 BTC if you have not been able to save $30k in the past 30 years, yet you can still figure out some kind of a system to be able to put as much as you are reasonably able to put into bitcoin - and if you are able to put 10% of your income into BTC, then after 10 years you would have invested up to 1 years worth of your income into BTC, and if you are able to be more aggressive than that, then you can lessen the timeline to get to the point in which you have put a whole year's income into BTC.


Yep it is not likely to help your BTC investment to be gambling on shitcoins... and in fact if you fuck around in shitcoins, you have decently good chances of making your BTC accumulation level worse rather than better.


You have a good point about the creation and maintenance of a "business strategy" in regards to how you may well approach building your BTC over the years, and you do not need to fuck around in shitcoins or to trade in order to build your "business strategy."

Your "business strategy" in regards to bitcoin should be to just continue to accumulate until you reach or exceed your BTC accumulation target levels.  Once you get to your target levels, then you can adapt your strategies.  Of course, the longer that you are in bitcoin and the more bitcoin that you accumulate, the more options that you likely are going to feel that you have...and hopefully each of us are able to figure out ways to enhance our BTC "business strategies" rather than entering into gambling, trading or screwing around with shitcoins (which tends to be another form of gambling).


That's right.  Even though we should start right away, we should start slowly and in such a way that we know that we have a sustainable and systematic way of investing into bitcoin and building our bitcoin holdings over time because, like you said, the journey into building our bitcoin holdings is not easy in the beginning, and it likely takes a while to get to a point in which we are comfortable.. perhaps 4-10 years or longer.. just to start to build a level of comfort and then perhaps even longer before we might feel comfortable that we can start to draw upon our bitcoin holdings in order to support our lifestyles.

We are not talking about cryptocurrency, here...

Of course, the way to structure the bet is for the two betting parties to work out, and if you figure out a way to make it a 50/50 odds bet, then that usually would be more straight-forward.. which does seem quite doable with how the potential terms have already been expressed.

Many of us already know that frequently members here will make relatively strong, clear and unambiguous assertions, but they won't necessarily stand behind those same assertions when it comes time to place the bet - and sometimes it can turn into a bit of a battle regarding what the assertions were and if the assertions as made are bettable,.. who were making which of the assertions, and then that can be another matter in which bets do not end up getting logged. ...

Wow!  That's an optimistic timeline.  I am thinking that 2nd Quarter 2023 would be the soonest (or best case scenario) for a new ATH...

And let me think.. worst case.. .....

naw.. skip worst case...   who needs to be wasting time on negative nancy-isms?  Not this peep.


Maybe longer scenario would be that BTC does not make another ATH until late 2024... so then the range between best case and less good case would be that we reach another BTC ATH between something like May/June 2023 to December 2024 - and maybe something like early 2024 would be the middle of that range.. and surely does not make me feel good to be throwing out specifics that are not really easy to pin-down currently.. without our first showing that we might potentially be able to proclaim that the "bottom is in".. but hey .. maybe by the time that we are able to proclaim that "the bottom is in" then by that point we are way closer (timeline wise) towards reaching a new ATH.


Wow... My worser case scenario (Q4) is your base case.

Sure, you might be correct... I hate to see it but it is not that unreasonable for you to have your base case in the same place as my worser case scenario.. and I may well have a wee bit too much hopium that is fogging my current perceptions.  Perhaps? perhaps?


That's not a bad article Abdulkader765.  What do you think?  Are you able to express your thoughts on the question of whether you believe bitcoin to be an investible product?

You know where you are at right?  

This is one of the longer living of bitcoin-focused threads, so surely it is quite likely the vast majority of longer term active thread participants here are going to consider bitcoin as an investible product - even though we might have differences of opinions regarding how any of us might invest into bitcoin or how we might talk about such topics of investments in terms of what "the general" might think about bitcoin.  

You can browse through this thread's history and see that there have been various ideas about bitcoin, but the idea of bitcoin as investible is not new and it surely preceeds this thread.. including going all the way back to the very first blocks in which bitcoin first went live in early 2009 - even though bitcoin did not really develop much of any kind of monetary value until around mid-2010.. . but surely bitcoin was really niche in the earliest of days.. so may well not have been until 2013 or so (or maybe even later?) that bitcoin's investment thesis began to spread more widely into the general population and beyond the more computer geek technical circles.  

These days, there are a lot of crazy and weird ideas out there in the "general" world and with the general population, yet that is not really new, except maybe that bitcoin has been increasingly been getting more attention - even if in negative and misleading kinds of ways, so probably many of the active participants in this thread would not really reflect the "general" population and views so much yet still many of us still may well be considering the various ways to attempt to navigate those weird and general ideas that exist in the general world and to figure out whether some of the weird ideas might affect the ways that we think about bitcoin (as an investment) or even to potentially taint the case for bitcoin as an investment.. or even that not everyone (even here) necessarily consider bitcoin as an investment, but instead in other ways, including as a kind of thing (asset) to trade in order to try to maximize the quantity of dollars that they might be able to make from figuring out bitcoin's price moves.

What do you think?

How long have you been in bitcoin?

Are you new to bitcoin?

Is the idea of bitcoin as an investment new to you?

Do you have investment strategies in bitcoin or ways that you want to figure out investing into bitcoin.. or have you not yet gotten that far in regards to figuring out where you are at in respect to your finances (your psychology) and bitcoin?


That's interesting.. whether you might go with a 50/50 type of a bet or if one side might give odds to the other?

I pretty much agree with everything that you say GigaBit. however, much of DCA is to buy at any price until you reach some BTC accumulation goals that you have set for yourself.. and including that maybe it could take you 4-10 years or longer to reach your BTC accumulation goals.. and then once you reach your BTC accumulation goals, it might take another 4-10 years before you are going to start to feel that maybe you are in a position to start to cash out parts of your bitcoin in order that you start to directly and materially benefit from having had spent so much time building your BTC stash....

I am not suggesting that anyone will necessarily have to wait 20 years to materially profit from bitcoin, or even that any of us would necessarily have to sell our bitcoin in order to substantially and materially profit building up a BTC stash.

Largely we are able to profit from building up wealth, even if we are not necessarily spending from our built up wealth.. because having the wealth gives more options including that we may well be way more liberated to spend our dollars more quickly and readily once we have already built wealth in bitcoin, so we would not necessarily have to wait for 20 years or even have to wait to actually directly spend our bitcoin in order to profit from our having had built our bitcoin stash... to whatever level that we are able to do at our own individual level of capability.. and like you seem to be suggesting GigaBit to be aggressive about the BTC accumulation without becoming overly aggressive.

Personally, I do not mind the idea of trying to improve upon DCA by buying on the dip or increasing buys at certain times, but it is not really easy to accomplish and sometimes it is better to just buy without trying to be too strategic about it... because it is quite likely that there is not going to be much ability to maximize dip buying points, and in the very long run, the extent that you might have stacked more sats or bought at lower prices is NOT likely going to make BIG differences  - or at least not as BIG of a difference as the fact that you are just doing the buying ongoingly and regularly.  I recall that for my couple of years in bitcoin (mostly in 2014 and 2015 a little bit in other years, too)..  I was DCA'ing and buying on dips, and I tended to have a weekly timeline in which I tried to make my buys (or at least the weeks that I had an allowance for that week), and surely sometimes I was able to identify dips, but I also had practices where if I had not bought (used my weekly allowance) for that week by a certain date, then I would just buy BTC at whatever the BTC price was at that deadline time.. and then at that point after I bought for that week, I would have my allowance for the following week that I could use for attempting to strategize my buying on the dip for the next week.. and the same thing, if I could not identify any further dip for several days into the week, I would just buy my allowance amount at the end of that following week.. and keep repeating the same thing each week - at least during the weeks that I had established an allowance for myself.

Frequently it can also be painful to continue to buy BTC and even to be attempting to buy BTC aggressively, because frequently it can feel like the BTC price keeps dipping (which it has done for the last year).. so sure now may well be a bottom, but now might not be the bottom, so there likely still remains some will power to keep buying if you are able to buy..and so it can be ongoingly painful financially and psychologically and sometimes we might just run out of money, but if we have a cashflow, we might still be able to buy from time to time when our cashflow is coming in and if our cashflow is enough, even though maybe not every single week and maybe not as much as we would want to because we need to make sure that we do not screw up our cashflow in such a way that we are not able to cover our regular expenses (including emergency expenses too)..

We can agree to disagree, and I already stated my various reasons in my earlier post including suggesting getting started in getting into bitcoin asap, learning along the way and having some presumptions that people have basic money management knowledge and/or the should be able to learn basic money management practices on their own..

I am not responsible to teach newbies or anyone else basic money management merely because I am telling them to get started into BTC ASAP.. and the essence is that I am just letting them know (my opinion) that it would be a good idea for them to both look into bitcoin and get started ASAP, which includes (without my necessarily having to say it because there is a bit of common sense involved) their making sure that they protect themselves and engage in sufficient and adequate risk management within their own discretion and in regards to their own financial and psychological circumstances.

Edited to clarify the way that I had presented a few of my points

Some shitcoiners do believe that they are "investing" in their shitcoin, so they believe that they are "in it" for the long term.. and even try to apply the same principles (such as DCAing into their positions) like is good for an investment like bitcoin but may well not be a very good idea for an overwhelming majority of shitcoins.

I doubt that we are saying anything different.  My main point was that our agreement results in our creation of money.. blame OgNasty for that because he granted us credit.

Sure, it is possible that we never end up paying him back.


Maybe we are disagreeing here, in part?  because I doubt that the bank is very much different, except they are just doing it on a larger scale, and they specialize in that kind of service of loaning and creating money and sure they follow standards too.. and they have licenses and permissions.. but we are able to do those kinds of things too.. just more informally.. and of course, banks might get so specialized and BIG that they are permitted special status to fuck people over.... and you remember in March 2020 or soon thereafter, banks were allowed to go from 10% reserves to zero% reserves...

Moral hazard in regards to loans and creation of money can exist on either side of the loan.  Maybe we don't really disagree? - each of us is just emphasizing different aspects.



Of course they engage in fractional reserve, and I doubt that governments are going to necessarily want to stop them from engaging in behaviors to attempt to undermine bitcoin - even though sometimes they might give some lip service to "protecting people" so both of us realize, likely, that it will take a while to change behaviors and even for customers to realize that they might have to be able to preserve their contractual relationships with third parties that allow them to take possession of their coins.  Some third parties will be more responsible than others, and so we all have to get used to some of these dynamics, including figuring out how much we might want to participate in any of those transitional services that are going to continue to evolve. but not without several casualties along the way including that some of us could become casualties as well if we do not sufficiently / adequately play our own hands.


Yes.  Maybe he does need to delegate some of that spokesperson work.

Elon should delegate some of his work sometimes too.. and sometimes big leaders have trouble with some of that.

Could be.  But CZ is no dummy, even though I agree that clip makes him look not so smart.. and the clip is also being misread too, so I am kind of thinking that he might have gotten caught off guard..  

By the way, I think that even really smart people can get caught into weird positions and situations and they say dumb things.. so sometimes any of us can be smarter than even the greatest of geniuses when we are Monday morning quarter-backing or even if we are seeing that a situation is running out of control (like a run on the bank in relation to Binance that is likely not going to end up in a crash, but who wants a run on the bank anyhow?... even though there are probably ways to take advantage of runs on the bank, too.. including short-squeezes)..  

For example, I think that Saylor is way smarter than me, but I have seen him do and say some pretty dumb things that he has had to walk back.. even Adam Back.. hahahaha.. I am not going to claim to be smarter than Adam Back, but I have seen him say some things that were not really very smart.. so maybe any of us can do it.. especially if we might have worked through a topic or even specialized in a certain area, and then we see smart people who are not very versed in the area of our specialty.


FTFY

 


You got a good point.  Touché.


You might be mixing up "jelly" with "spineless".  Those are similar concepts but different in reference to context.. like how this here cat had used "jelly" in that there previous sentence..  

Lookie uie..

Bonding with your favorite butt buddy.. aka cryptotourist..

hahahahahahaha

I am blushing by merely witnessing such public display of affection..







and, no... I am not jelly.

 


Yep.. truth of the matter is that paper bitcoin will be hard to eliminate complete.. even though it is likely people will get burnt, and burnt and burnt when they do not adequately protect themselves during circumstances in which paper bitcoin are "at issue."

Look: you, me an OgNasty can go out for dinner and fun on the town, and then the bill ends up being 1.2 Bitcoin.. but we decide NOT to pay it all in full at the moment.. so maybe OgNasty covers for you and me, Gachapin.. and therefore we each owe him 0.4 BTC.. and we decide to do payments over the next 4 years... or maybe 2 years?  who knows?. we can figure out something... but in the process of agreeing to our paying back the guy with the BIG bucks (aka OgNasty), then we have created 0.8 BTC.. but hey, if we settle our bill in 4 years and pay back Ognasty for all the fun that we had out on the town, then we are back to normal after we pay him back.. and who's going to stop us from entering into such an arrangement if we all agreed to it?

Thanks.  Many times, I just try to bounce off the ideas of others, and it is true that there are a lot of us who will sometimes have really bad information and practices regarding money management matters that would allow us to even be able to invest, yet money management seems to be one of those kinds of skills that anyone can improve - especially the basics, and the more time that s/he works at improving it, then the more likely s/he will be able to develop systems in which s/he is able to profit from investing (rather than devolving into gambling).  Sometimes we might not even recognize the difference between investing and gambling until we have practiced, thought about it, and practiced some more.


There is a kind of human nature appeal towards shitcoin marketing ideas, and many of us are easily trapped into a variety of shitcoin marketing tactics.  So I can surely relate to the actual ongoing prevalence of ideas that are tied around shitcoin marketing ideas.  For example, people might even "know that shitcoins" are bad, so they will stay away from them, but then they believe that bitcoin is a shitcoin too.

It is similar to the fallacy that libertarians make.  There will be assertions of so many correctly wrong things that governments do, so then the solution will be to just tear everything down and not appreciating that sometimes there can be positive aspects to government - but frequently it all just gets lumped into frustration.. even by very smart people.  There are some really smart people who are "into" shitcoins and frequently what they say makes a lot of sense... so it can surely take a while to sort the wheat from the chaff.. and the wheat is bitcoin, as you seem to realize and appreciate... and actually, sometimes we might not even be sure if we are hitched to the right horse.. especially while we are learning.. or new to bitcoin (and/or crypto/shitcoins).

FTFY... So far our bottom is $15,479 on 11/21/22 - and so yeah, you may well be correct that it is already difficult to get the bottom to go down further, even though there seems to be a lot of desperation in the air, trying to achieve such further bottom, yet for me it continues to be difficult to assign very high odds that the bottom is actually in, until we can get some distance from the current bottom... so therefore, I cannot even get beyond 50%.. because the assessment is that we are in a bear market, we continue to be in a bear market until we are not... .. yet we ONLY know that we are no longer in the bear market when the odds for down get lower than 50%.. so.. how to achieve that kind of a confirmation remains a 2.1 quadrillion satoshis kind of a question.

Don't listen to me.. I will believe it when I see it, and you are not going to find me to be brave enough to actually make a claim about the future shows bitcoin prices going up that is anything more than 49%.. until we can extract our lil selfies into greater distances away from the current local bottom...what is that price?  I don't know for sure becuae it seems to be a product of both price and time, so merely getting above the 200-week moving average (wich is currently at $24k would not even be enough for me.. even though getting above such 200-week moving average would likely inspire quite a bit of confidence... getting above the 100-week moving average would inspire even greater confidence, but that 100-week moving average is currently at $38k.. so that seems like asking way too much confirmation in order to feel like we are returning to UP and that the bottom is "in" for this cycle.

It's a bit of a weird answer from CZ, but it could be a kind of purposeful reading the answer out of context.  

because CZ is correct when it comes to the possibility that Binance will not have to give back $2.1 billion due to clawbacks.

So surely one thing is if clients continue to withdraw money, then does Binance have such money. .then the answer to that should be that they do.

Now the answer to a clawback question would be that fuck that shit.. we are not giving any of it back, and the lawyers will figure out a way that we do not have to .. but if we were to have to give it back, then we would be able to handle it.. but at this point, we doubt that it is likely that we are going to have to give it back because of what it was and how it was structured.. so it is pure speculation that we would even have to give it back.

I think that there is just a confounding of information and CZ should not have to answer those kinds of legal strategy and speculation questions.. so in that sense, he said the right thing, but it just appears that CZ is being evasive because the questions of client funds and the questions of having to give back the money from the proceeds of a loan are different categories of kinds of money.

CZ seems smarter than that.. and there seems to be some out of context in the clip, and it appears as if CZ should understand what she is asking, but the reporter rolls her eyes because she seems to be wanting to create an impression that CZ is being unduly evasive when he largely gave the right answer but it could have seemed to have been answering a different question... it is not a difficult answer if talking about client funds (being SAFU).. pretty basic.. but when it comes to money that Binance had lent to FTX and then FTX was paying it back.. that is another category of kinds of funds in which Binance may well not have very high odds of having to pay that back... that's why lawyers working on those kinds of matters.    

I never really thought about it like that.  You are really enlightening dee peeps in these here parts with such profoundening insights.

In other words, it sounds like we are fucked.

Spiraling BTC prices - headed to zero for sure.

 


Oh golly gee.


Rome was not built in a day.

#justsaying  


Just pointing out that you are engaged in lowcoiner and no coiner talk.

Why does buddy need to drop in order for you to feel good about being able to buy more corns? whether at these prices or whatever happens to come, without having to wish/cheer for BTC prices to fall?

Haven't we had enough DOWNity in recent times?  such as the last 7 months?  of course, even worse downity in the past month.  Why do we need more down just so that you can pick up an additional 0.1BTC?


ok... no problema with that, mostly.


Fuck off with your repetitive cheering for down..  ain't nobody got time for dat.

Edit: PS.  By the way, about 3 weeks ago, I received a pretty decent amount of extra cashflow from a source that was not expected.. and I largely used that extra money to plug in some areas in which I had considered that I could buttress some of my buying on dips.. and then to move down my buying on dip orders.. I am not cheering for any of those extra orders to get filled.. and I would be quit content if they did not get filled.. but if they do, they do.  

I guess what I am largely attempting to say is that anyone who has been in bitcoin for a decently long period of time.. (perhaps 4 years or more) should already largely be established in bitcoin in such a way that they profit more from bitcoin prices going up rather than BTC prices going down.. especially at these kinds of (relatively speaking) historically low prices... and especially the longer that any of us has been in bitcoin, then it should be expected that we would be stack/biased towards UPpity.

Personally, I am not against suggesting that someone (including newbies) to get started in bitcoin right away.. .and to figure it out as they go, but to avoid shitcoins.

So surely each person is responsible for his / her own investment strategy and also to figure out his/her budget in order that s/he is not investing too much and then ending up gambling rather than investing.

So yeah a lot of regular people do not seem to be very good at managing their own money, but to me, it seems that managing money is a basic task that any of us should be able to figure out.. especially several of the basics in regards to making sure that we are not spending more than we earn, unless we know how to manage debt as well..

but anyhow, general deficiencies that people have in managing their own money does not stop me from both suggesting that they get started investing into bitcoin right away and to clarify that I am talking about bitcoin rather than shitcoins.. and then also I suppose that I am going to attempt to presume a certain level of competence that people should have, even though I know that if I were to get into details with many people I will find that a lot of people do not tend to be very good at managing their finances, but on a basic and general level I am still not getting into whether they are good at managing their finances, I am getting into telling them that they should figure out how to include bitcoin into their lives... and they need to figure out the specifics.. even though of course, I will tend to attempt to answer questions when people have them... especially it comes to bitcoin, and if they start to talk about various shitcoins or throwing out the term "crypto" (which does sometimes happen if you just approach some random persons) then I will attempt to clarify that I am not talking about investing into "crypto" or shitcoins, and then at that appoint attempting to clarify that bitcoin is different.. and then once their eyes start to glaze over because they are not really interested in the topic or they are already lost in the topic, then maybe at that point it would be time to change the topic.

So if someone really wants to engage on the topic, then that may well be a different story.. and provoke even more conversation.. and from my perspective, there will frequently be needs to clarify between bitcoin and shitcoin (and crypto) just to continue to clarify what I am trying to talk about and sometimes to attempt to respond to any of the misconceptions that they might have if they are getting their information about bitcoin from the mainstream media.. which surely it is not going to be as probable to find some random person who really actually knows the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and crypto and even knowing the difference between holding actual bitcoin and/or having bitcoin on exchanges (having third parties holding bitcoins, which at best are claims/vouchers to bitcoin rather than actual bitcoin). So it can take a while to get through these kinds of discussions with actual understandings and not getting caught up upon various misunderstandings that seem to be quite widely spread if any of us talk to random people on the street or in real life meaning our friends, relatives and other acquaintances that we meet in real life.

It does not hurt to know that these days whenever we talk about bitcoin, that we are likely going to be interacting with people who may well have quite a few too.  It's just part of our current landscape that information is all over the place out there, and maybe from time to time we might get lucky and find some people on the street who actually know a lot more than the average person about bitcoin, and it is true that from time to time, I have met those kinds of people in the real world, too.


That comes off as a bit patronizing to me.

I agree that a lot of people do not know how to manage their money very well, but the fact that a lot of people are not good at investing is not going to stop me from telling them about bitcoin and telling them that it would likely be to their advantage to look into it sooner rather than later.  They are still responsible for what they do, even if I am telling them to get the fuck started asap... and good luck.  I am not responsible if they fuck up how much they put into bitcoin or how they go about their investment or how they manage their finances.. but I do feel that I have to make sure that they understand that I am referring to bitcoin and not to shitcoins, not to crypto and not to ONLY having price exposure.. while recognizing that it can take a while for someone to figure out specifics, and if they engage and ask questions then I will do my best to answer from my opinion and experiences, and they won't know my opinion and experiences unless they engage and we end up going back and forth for a while to see that they are actually interested..

Another thing is that personal finances seem to be an area in which people have to be willing to discuss.. and those kinds of areas can end up being quite sensitive discussion areas, too... so there can be some balancing back and forth and also there can be some reluctancies to share too many personal details too.. So, even I am careful to try not to overly share, so maybe instead of talking about specific amounts, I might refer to hypothetical amounts.. such as saying buying $100 of bitcoin per week or something like that... which again depends on the other person in terms of if the other person might bring up his/her own specifics in terms of some investment that he has or maybe some kind of budget amount that he is thinking about, and then our conversation might go in the direction of their hypothetical (or their personal example) rather than my hypothetical.


We are not selling anything.  I will tell people that it is up to them to do whatever they like.. and I give less than two shits if they actually buy any bitcoin or not.. but it would likely be to their advantage to look into the matter, then to take some action to establish a bitcoin position.. and everyone who invests at all should attempt to figure out their bitcoin position and a good starting position is anywhere between 1% to 25% of their quasi-liquid investment portfolio, but they still have to figure out if those numbers work for them and how to get them to work for them if they are going to end up choosing to get started in bitcoin.


It is up to people the extent to which they want to take anything that I say seriously.  If they have erroneous perceptions, then sure maybe I will attempt to help them for a while, but if they are not taking any of the matters seriously, then I am not going to want to spend very much time with those kinds of people because we are not communicating sufficiently well in order to be valuable use of time for either of us.

Do you tell them about bitcoin or about crypto?

Do you tell them that there is a difference between bitcoin and crypto, or do you just interchangeably use the two words (of bitcoin and crypto) so that they might not even know what you are talking about?

Do you tell them that it is better to hold your own keys, even if a newbie might start out getting used to bitcoin through an exchange?

Do you tell them to be careful in regards to shitcoins, as in they are all scams.... and some of them are more scammy than others..  so if you want to fuck around with shitcoins, you are gambling?

Do you talk to people about potential investment timelines.. or are you largely talking about trading - getting in and out?  what about position sizes do you talk about that?

Do you tend to follow up if people are interested with your way of discussing matters?  And what would you consider to be your success rate to be, in which someone actually ends up acting beyond just downloading / installing an exchange app?

By the way, Swanbitcoin.com is a bitcoin oriented platform that emphasizes education, long term BTC accumulation and holding your own keys..

As you might be able to see, I have a lot of reservations about conversations with newbies that potentially get newbies into shitcoins.. when it seems to be a better practice to attempt to steer newbies (or maybe some of the people that you meet might be kind of newbies) to some kind of a bitcoin first approach - even though on their own, they still may well end up getting into shitcoins and not really understanding the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and also they might not know the difference between self-custody and having a third party hold your value (which still gives you price exposure to the underlying asset, bitcoin or otherwise, but is still a kind of risk when considering whether there might be some goals to get value that goes beyond mere price exposure).

Surely, I am not opposed to letting the price come to you... so in some sense, it might be a BIG so what.. even though also I know the feeling of being "so close" but just not hitting it.

I had a few standing orders at just a bit over $16,550 - and two of them hit and the other one was right around $20 short of hitting... .. and in some sense it is a big so what, but in another sense, it is like "so close, but just not quite"...

So yes, if we use Stamp, then we have only a $72 difference between the so far price reached and the target threshold price of $16,500 and less than 0.5% from meeting such target price.. but sometimes in the psychological arena of "letting the price come to you" is a good thing.. whether it happens or not might be another question.. even though as I type this response post, we are now bouncing around $16,600.. so getting another $100 dippening seems to have pretty decent odds of happening..

Amended that for you.

Yeah, but we do not agree.. especially the way that you phrased the matter.

Merely if something (such as bitcoin) happens to go sideways and/or perform the same as the various other asset classes does not cause them to be correlated (or linked), even if they might have a short period of doing the same thing... and furthermore, there is nuance in terms of looking at why they might be performing similarly on a short term basis, but might not even capture any kind of essence of what is going on or even any kind of ability to predict what they might do, even if we might consider that the odds are good (or maybe the most likely scenario.. not even sure about that) that they all could possibly go sideways together and at the same time and even for several months.


I agree with you on this part.  There are going to be ways in which bitcoin is manipulated and even tried to be manipulated, and some wealthy people will figure it out better than others, and at the same time, some not very wealthy people are likely going to prosper from bitcoin too.. just like a lot of normies have already profited from bitcoin as the largest wealth transfer in history continues to take place, whether some people recognize it or not.. and whether some people figure out how to allocate for themselves in profitable ways or not.  Wealth transfer is not going to come without any battles and without casualties... and some of those casualties will come from folks that we might not have expected.. .. surely some of the "rich folks" had gotten caught up in the FTX shenanigans (pension plans, right?), and likely in the future, some governments are going to get caught on the wrong side of some of the future battles, too.


what fellow bot?

I will bite.

What is the referred-to "shame"?


I don't believe that uie-pooie will be giving up so easily.

 







Edit - PS.. by the way, who are these "beloving" peeps of whom you refer?  

Are they in the room with us now?

Cat's got your tongue?



Jojo?  Is that you?  Speaking 100% in pics.