The usual band of idiots have no idea what they are talking about... what a surprise. For those wondering, everything PG, PL, et al is completely false and as usual they are just making things up without that pesky reality thing getting in the way.
The usual band of idiots have no idea what they are talking about... what a surprise. For those wondering, everything PG, PL, et al is completely false and as usual they are just making things up without that pesky reality thing getting in the way.
Curious as to which parts of my assessment are false. Would you be so kind as to point them out, Josh?Thanks, bud. ~Bruno K~ EDIT: I just found the following: 11-08-2012, 01:29 PMWe just moved the oven to the new facility... hopefully we can get it and the pick and place machine installed and picture worthy in the next couple weeks.
Our laser is awesome! I will post some pictures and video of it in action. I have an almost uncontrollable urge to go Duke Nukem in the back room, rip the laser off it's mount and start zapping people. Is 10770 El Monte the new facility you mentioned above? (As Elmer Fudd would say, "Be very, very, careful when answering that.") You have no idea what you're talking about, you continue to post and your little pet PuertoLibre continues to "agree" with "assessments" that are not based in reality or fact.
Why do you think this is any of your business? Why do you care what we use "valuable resources" on?
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@ Team Avalon
What happened to the last Thursday update? (from TSMC?)
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In other words, they were never ready to build a sizable assembly line?
IF what PG is pointing out is true, there was zero chance of there being an earlier shipment prior to now (or whenever they end up actually shipping).
They drew out the delays a piece at a time?
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Assuming the anonymous VC or any private orders exist...
We also do not know if they paid the website rate either.
Perhaps it is time to approach them by email and ask what is the rate for larger orders?
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I also want to add a notation.
Keep in mind that a BFL rep recently stated that they don't want their competition to know how large their operation is.
Question: Did the VC (Venture Capital) come from a source that expects to be paid in Hardware OR Hardware + Cash?
The reason I ask is, currently most are assuming that the BFL VC (who currently remain anonymous) will be paid back in $$$. What if that isn't the case?
What if they have "other orders" they need to fulfill that does not come from the orders placed on these forum communities? Again, this is hinted/implied in emails as well as public statements.
I think the actual number of units may be much more than what is currently estimated. BFL may have a private obligation to build hardware for an anonymous company. So the hashrate estimates different folks are using may be off by quite a margin.
There may be public orders AND sizable private orders. If there are (or were) 1000 BFL customers, there is no way to tell how many private (off the books?) customers there are.
They might not even use the website to checkout their orders.
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As far as the will-build-to-suit is concern, yes some the office area could have been demoed, thus enlarging the warehouse/assembly area, but that would have taken time. Remember, it was a couple months ago we were shown the eBay oven being unloaded at their new warehouse, a different facility than this one which, according to Jody, they started moving into yesterday.
As far as has been discussed, and as far as I know, the first run of ASICs out of BFL will not involve use of the oven or pick and place machine. If this is the case, all that'll be needed in the next month or so for product assembly is a pretty simple final-assembly area. Ah, At what point does integration of the PCB's happen in-house? BFL's talked about the various machines not being used nor ready for Batch 1. Then Jody says there won't be any Batches. A.K.A "Built on demand." So at which point do they start doing most of the work they are currently outsourcing? |
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Therefore, when they do eventually ship the announcement should be:
"They're here."
LazyOtto, you are hereby the king of framing jokes! |
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http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=9725&p_table=STANDARDS1910.37(a)
The danger to employees must be minimized.
1910.37(a)(1)
Exit routes must be kept free of explosive or highly flammable furnishings or other decorations.
1910.37(a)(2)
Exit routes must be arranged so that employees will not have to travel toward a high hazard area, unless the path of travel is effectively shielded from the high hazard area by suitable partitions or other physical barriers.
1910.37(a)(3)
Exit routes must be free and unobstructed. No materials or equipment may be placed, either permanently or temporarily, within the exit route. The exit access must not go through a room that can be locked, such as a bathroom, to reach an exit or exit discharge, nor may it lead into a dead-end corridor. Stairs or a ramp must be provided where the exit route is not substantially level.
1910.37(a)(4)
Safeguards designed to protect employees during an emergency (e.g., sprinkler systems, alarm systems, fire doors, exit lighting) must be in proper working order at all times.
1910.37(b)
Lighting and marking must be adequate and appropriate.
1910.37(b)(1)
Each exit route must be adequately lighted so that an employee with normal vision can see along the exit route.
1910.37(b)(2)
Each exit must be clearly visible and marked by a sign reading "Exit."
1910.37(b)(3)
Each exit route door must be free of decorations or signs that obscure the visibility of the exit route door.
..1910.37(b)(4)
1910.37(b)(4)
If the direction of travel to the exit or exit discharge is not immediately apparent, signs must be posted along the exit access indicating the direction of travel to the nearest exit and exit discharge. Additionally, the line-of-sight to an exit sign must clearly be visible at all times.
1910.37(b)(5)
Each doorway or passage along an exit access that could be mistaken for an exit must be marked "Not an Exit" or similar designation, or be identified by a sign indicating its actual use (e.g., closet).
1910.37(b)(6)
Each exit sign must be illuminated to a surface value of at least five foot-candles (54 lux) by a reliable light source and be distinctive in color. Self-luminous or electroluminescent signs that have a minimum luminance surface value of at least .06 footlamberts (0.21 cd/m2) are permitted.
1910.37(b)(7)
Each exit sign must have the word "Exit" in plainly legible letters not less than six inches (15.2 cm) high, with the principal strokes of the letters in the word "Exit" not less than three-fourths of an inch (1.9 cm) wide.
1910.37(c)
The fire retardant properties of paints or solutions must be maintained. Fire retardant paints or solutions must be renewed as often as necessary to maintain their fire retardant properties.
1910.37(d)
Exit routes must be maintained during construction, repairs, or alterations. I'm pretty sure I can't convert a farmer's barn into an assembly plant and hire a dozen employees to churn out product without having to worry about OSHA sprinkler and other safety guidelines because the structure was built over 100 years ago. Even if I started doing such, it would only take one disgruntle employee to make a call and my production timeline would be pushed back considerably. In fact, I may be called in from the proprietor next door who's churning out a similar product by his employees inside a barn that is up to OSHA standards out of spite and future sales concern. No worries. I'm sure that in the unlikely event OSHA showed up to inspect the work environment, Josh would lay such a scathing verbal assault upon the goons that they'd beat a hasty retreat and never "troll" in the neighborhood again. Never underestimate the OSHA reps. They are safety minded, but deadly! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDe4G2yyJw8Warning "somewhat" graphic material. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB86FZnjKTw |
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i see matching addresses, minus the city name (leawood and overland park border each other there, so that doesn't shock me much.) what else did i miss? 1200SF warehouse; 4800SF Office. As of Nov. 14th, space was still available, but we were shown equipment moving in prior to that date. Possibly, the earliest starting least date was Dec. 1st. No sprinkler system. Least rate.   My smallest warehouse is 1200SF. It's nothing. BTW, the "No" in the image above reflects if the space is equipped with sprinklers. Is the sprinkler system the focus of your attention? If so, why? What is the importance? (Of there not being one?) |
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i see matching addresses, minus the city name (leawood and overland park border each other there, so that doesn't shock me much.) what else did i miss? 1200SF warehouse; 4800SF Office. As of Nov. 14th, space was still available, but we were shown equipment moving in prior to that date. Possibly, the earliest starting least date was Dec. 1st. No sprinkler system. Least rate. |
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@ Avalon [The Team]
Furthermore, do you have any opinions or insights into the discussion that is going back and forth between several members in this thread? (The software folks and the hardware folks)
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I don't mean to interrupt this most interesting and totally not boring argument, but I feel like I need to second Frequency above: Are there any chances to get another update soon? Maybe one last update before christmas? Also, as far as I understood it, there was a test/demo planned for the end of December. Is that still the case? Or has the demo been moved to January?
Thanks.
Seconded, great question. Add to that, is the schedule looking good so far? |
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Damn I can't wait until Jan/Feb/Mar when someone has finally released an ASIC and all this crap goes away.
Me too!!!  By the way ... did you mean 2013 or 2014? P.S. When are you going to visit BFL? Any dates yet? At this point they might give Kano a refund for the plane ticket they purchased [in theory]. Just a Reflex from all the refunds going on elsewhere. They probably dream of refunds by now. Okay, now I am trolling..! |
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Unlikely! Sir! What you post, while appearing highly unlikely to any person of average intelligence is positive FACT to the BFL Clown Crew! Common Sense and Critical Thinking be damned! They don't need it!
Sigh - if I was on a plane now all this crap would go away VERY soon ... Oh well - it will happen ... some time  Thats is a very nice a subtle way of kicking someone in the balls. That is finesse you can't grow on trees... +100 |
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Well, I was enjoying the technical talk between the three others. I actually want to hear what they have to say.
I want to see what they hash out [pun intended] between themselves on how they think the process should be handled. I dunno about anyone else, but at the end of that discussion I am going to ask Avalon teams members...."So your thoughts on this technical discussion is...?"
Then they will say something clever (one hopes) and let us in on some insight into how they handled the problem at the firmware or silicon level. That will benefit all of us, don't you think?
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@ Mrb
I'll try better next time.
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I don't really like the contest either. Unfortunately if called out, BFL can truthfully say "but our competition does it too!"
Doesn't matter if anyone else is doing it. BFL is running an illegal lottery. No surprise, really, having been founded by a felon convicted of running an illegal scheme. By requiring consideration, in the form of advertising by the participants, and not having a "no purchase necessary" way to enter the contest, they are in clear violation of the law. Wait, so you have to be a customer in order to be eligible? Hmm... |
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But if there were, the slightest overclocking of that group of chips would incur one hell of a performance gain. (And lots of extra electrical use)
This is nonsense. Overclocking by x% always brings a constant x% performance gain, whether it is 88 small chips or, say, 4 large chips. Not exactly true, there are interconnect/bus issues and firmware issues that might stop that from being true. If you have overclocked a normal CPU you know that something other than the main chip itself might limit a decent performance gain. Chips are usually a part of a system and not a standalone device. Talking in terms of ASIC being overclocked, it depends on a number of design decisions. Overclocking 8 massive chips from 60 to 120 Gh/s is not the "exactly" the same deal as overclocking 88 chips that subdivide the work. As long as you are dividing the heat load across a wider array of chips with more surface area [88 for example] and as long as your cooling is sufficient for all 88 (and you have enough space for all the chips), no single die should experience the same heat load as 1 in a group of 8. You can double the clock on a group of 88, but the heat is shared across a wider area. In modern computing the idea is to create hyper efficient chips at a decent clock rate and stack them in as tiny a package as you possibly can. In fact, these days most CPU vendors are trying to compact as many cores as possible into one socket. AMD has 32 per socket as an experimental design while intel is aiming for 50. ---------------- In the ASICs coming from the vendors, depending on the design decisions being made, you don't have to go with that logic. You can spread it out into clusters/modules with their own heatsink (like bASIC did). Anyway, overclocking is much more than just changing the rate of the clock if you are designing the hardware. Perhaps Avalon has gone with the "shot gun" approach where the chips are all very inefficient but they make up the difference by: 1) Perhaps in their simplicity. (reliable, easy to produce dies?) 2) Perhaps by being so tiny alot of them can be packaged together like a mini rig? I dunno. But there is more than one way to build a system. As long as you change the principles of the design enough that it makes practical sense. BFL went with the idea of creating dense "Full custom" chips with high performance in a low nm process. But they are no "Intel" or "AMD". God knows how many failures they might face per wafer if their fab bakes the chips just slightly off. Intel and AMD have their fabs set up to try tons of different combinations in one go. As the fab proceeds they get good data on what worked great and what works terrible as the layers are checked and baked. Therefore the first chips out of their fabs are usually the worst. While the last runs are their best and most efficient chips (and highly overclockable). etc... |
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1) Simply ask them what is so great about BFL. (in very concise terms...no vague remarks)
2) Then, ask them how they view the faults of BFL. (again, in very concise terms)
3) Once they have excused their chosen vendor for their errors, however grave it may be...
4) Use or "Adapt" the exact same reasons and words they used or employed to defend your own vendor.
1) Community as a whole benefits from ASIC vendor competition. BFL's chips should be more efficient (due to 65nm). 2) I don't care, as long as they eventually deliver. The 65nm process is riskier but should keep their product competitive for longer, even if Avalon delivers sooner. 3/4) Obviously I also want to see Avalon and the others succeed. Competition is beneficial. Agreed. As long as none of the vendors over extends themselves [through competition] and subsequently bankrupts their company. I assume every currently available vendor is smart enough to avoid this. (Though, sometimes I have my doubts) |
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