Is it me or here in NY at 12 cents a kw/hr this isnt even profittable.....1000 watts for 4TH when you could have S9 doing 11-14TH for 1200/1400 watts. Its a cheap miner but it isnt even profittable lol. Unless btc is like 20k each. These are electricity guzzling space heaters.
There are many reasons for these devices. Perhaps obligatory contracts and these help replace end of life hardware. Here is what it would look like if BTC/USD was at $15,000.00. From what I can see buying BTC at this low rate vs hardware purchase of this type makes business sense. UPDATE: Here is the document for reference. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharingBTC/USD 15000 NETWORK DIFFICULTY INCREASE OF 10% FOR 6 RE-TARGETS.  BTC/USD 8500 NETWORK DIFFICULTY INCREASE OF 5% FOR 6 RE-TARGETS.  ^ updated to reflect proper name and other purchase options, |
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Just apply a new sticker on top of the S7 miner and undervolt & underclock it a little and voilà you have a 'brand new' V9 miner.  Sorry unless it mines LTC at the same time then it is not profitable at the present BTC/USD price. Best to buy BTC. What? How is your post related to my post in any way?  I took your comment as satire "sarcasm" with respects re-branding the S7 to V9 and wanted to add that it's return on investment at present BTC/USD is in the -$. Here is what it would look like if BTC/USD was at $15,000.00. From what I can see buying BTC at this low rate vs hardware purchase of this type makes business sense. UPDATE: Here is the document for reference. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharingBTC/USD 15000 NETWORK DIFFICULTY INCREASE OF 10% FOR 6 RE-TARGETS and 2% thereafter.  https://i.imgur.com/VWPahOE.pngBTC/USD $8500 USD NETWORK DIFFICULTY INCREASE OF 10% FOR 6 RE-TARGETS and 2% thereafter.  https://i.imgur.com/8ZIwfis.png^ updated to reflect proper name and other purchase options, including more accurate near-term network difficulty adjustments. UPDATE #2: To reflect recent difficulty change. |
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Just apply a new sticker on top of the S7 miner and undervolt & underclock it a little and voilà you have a 'brand new' V9 miner. Sorry unless it mines LTC at the same time then it is not profitable at the present BTC/USD price. Best to buy BTC. |
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Past Performance Is No Guarantee of Future Results
I speak from experience. Know that people who mine "Miners" are known as hardcore investors in BTC. When it makes business sense to buy BTC rather then to buy mining hardware then you have your new floor. |
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Learn to read I am well capable of reading, here’s what was said: ...
To clarify the chart I have is set to have an increase in difficulty at 1% every 18 days. THIS IS AN ESTIMATE. It may drop % a few times. However I have factored in the average increase over the last two years and even the average from the last year.
... 5% preset difficulty every 14 days, thats an avg of 11% monthly, the avg was 7% in 2017. Last year there was some big jumps in difficulty too... Have you had a look at the curve over the last 2 years: https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/difficulty/2y?t=lAs HoleShot correctly points out in the previous post, it’s following a logarithmic function. What you are doing is on this graph, you’re drawing a straight line between the first and last point, you’re then extending that line to predict the future. Surely you can see that the slope of the line you’re drawing is not following the latest trend of the curve. And like i told you some posts before i dont know what hashrate chart u are looking at. The one im looking at we are back at hashrate lvls of 15 days ago and it keeps going down. Perhaps this one: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rateor this one: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-hashrate.html#1yor this one: https://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/bitcoin-network-hashrate-chart, or this one: https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/hashrate/6m?c=m&g=15&t=a… Which one are you looking at? Also nobody expects difficulty to simply go flat Good. but to go up in lower numbers than it is raising after the whole craze in December Not sure why you would expect that, growth rate has always increased. PD: I dont think anybody is discussing with you that selling a s9 for 5k is much better than mining i sold my order of 6 for 4.5k each Very wise decision Sir, instant 12k profit :-) No point in getting too excited. Those numbers are highly conservative and simply to pose as an example to the newbies that are unaware that selling Bitcoin at 7500 USD/ BTC is foolish. When I first started this project and keeping the spreadsheet going we were having 30% to 20% gains on average every difficulty target. What I wanted to demonstrate with this chart that even if the network balanced out and remained at an improbable 1% gain. At the present rate 7500 USD you'd be hard-pressed even make one Bitcoin profitably. I have also set one to a more reasonable 10% increase for the next 6 retargets while BTC is trading at 15000 usd I also make note that anything past 3 difficulty retarget is hard to predict. For reference I set a second difficulty at 1% after 6 target levels.. That is why I try to take the average of 2016-2017 and the last month of 2018. I personally believe that come April we're going to see another 20% increase. This is simply because Samsung is now making a ASICs. With increased production we are also due for an increase in chip performance with the next-generation hardware. Update: For instance if you mined with the S9 under those conservative network difficulty increases you would net 0.49 BTC and at 15000 = 4850 USD. After hardware and power costs your profit would 2500usd. This doesn't even factor in overhead such as employee security and rent or any incidentals. If you took that same investment and purchased BTC at 7500usd now. You would have 0.65btc. So ultimately selling BTC now for hardware seems foolish. That is unless instead of paying tax you prefer to have that tax portion work for you by reinvested in a mining asset you can depreciate. Dude, it is foolish to assume that btc will go back to 15k usd. There is no guarantee of that.... Past performance is not an indication of future performance. Feel free to make a copy of the document and enter your own perspective. All I know is that miners are hardcore investors and reinvest into BTC. When it is better to buy BTC than miners then you have your new floor of value. |
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Hopefully Samsung wakes up their idea and realizes that there is no point competing with bitmain in such a small market.... No one wins then.
Samsung is making ASICs for company's like bitmain. As for the true value of BTC. 1 BTC is still 1 BTC. As for the limited BTC supply and it's true value. Is can be likened to the cost of participating on the Bitcoin blockchain. |
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Looks like bitmain is cleaning house. I wonder if they're just shutting down mining at least in China, making room for new technology, or what.
I think we are about to get new hardware with far better performance. J/gh |
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the current happening do not encouraging people to actually invest. Many countries are set to ban bitcoin and other cryptocoins.
Bitcoin will still go further down and I get $5,000 to be the bottom. We should expect the 2013 pattern to repeat itself and I expect a reverse of directoins from next month.
All theses arguments are old and proven false. What we don't need is scams and fraudulent ICOs as well as exchanges that run as a fractional reserve. Government and laws that are part of the traditional trading platforms are going to need to be introduced at the exchange levels. Even penny stocks have been used for fraud. The deliberations next Tuesday will clarify the stance as far as what steps should and will be taken. As for miners and setting the prices??? Hardware and infrastructure investment both by accredited investors, bank loans, and reinvestment in hardware to lower taxes is one of the primary ways that crypto gets new money into the echo system. All the hacks and fraudulent ICOs simply drain the market cap as they attempt to get away with their theft. Miners reinvest in crypto. Get rich quick simply bleed both the reputation and the true value of the Bitcoin economy. |
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I can see it going down to $2000 level, since 90% haircut is par for the course here in bitcoinland; however, $1000 is a bit too much. Most likely, we will see $4000 level sometime soon, if not we'll be on our way to $10K soon.
Wow dispute wishful thinking I am also lost for words. Practical application should be considered. Here is a profitably vs network difficulty vs going rate for BTC spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharingPlease note the network difficulty at 5% is highly conservative and is used here as an example for newbies that are unaware that selling Bitcoin at 7500 USD/ BTC is foolish. When I first started mining with ASICs and keeping the spreadsheet going we were having 30% to 20% gains on average every difficulty target. What I wanted to demonstrate with this chart that even if the network balanced out and remained at an improbable 1% gain. At the present rate 7500 USD you'd be hard-pressed even make one Bitcoin profitably. I have also set one to a more reasonable 10% increase for the next 6 retargets while BTC is trading at 15000 usd I also make note that anything past 3 difficulty retarget is hard to predict. For reference I set a second difficulty at 1% after 6 target levels.. That is why I try to take the average of 2016-2017 and the last month of 2018. I personally believe that come April we're going to see another 20% increase. This is simply because Samsung is now making a ASICs. With increased production we are also due for an increase in chip performance with the next-generation hardware. Update: For instance if you mined with the S9 under those conservative network difficulty increases you would net 0.49 BTC and at 15000 = 4850 USD. After hardware and power costs your profit would 2500usd. This doesn't even factor in overhead such as employee security and rent or any incidentals. If you took that same investment and purchased BTC at 7500usd now. You would have 0.65btc. So ultimately selling BTC now for hardware seems foolish. That is unless instead of paying tax you prefer to have that tax portion work for you by reinvested in a mining asset you can depreciate.  ^ UPDATE: Now with two difficulty dates. Presently set at 5% and 1% on the 6th month. 2ND UPDATE: I added a result at 15,000.00 USD to BTC Estimated Return with a Network difficulty increase of 10% |
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Learn to read I am well capable of reading, here’s what was said: ...
To clarify the chart I have is set to have an increase in difficulty at 1% every 18 days. THIS IS AN ESTIMATE. It may drop % a few times. However I have factored in the average increase over the last two years and even the average from the last year.
... 5% preset difficulty every 14 days, thats an avg of 11% monthly, the avg was 7% in 2017. Last year there was some big jumps in difficulty too... Have you had a look at the curve over the last 2 years: https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/difficulty/2y?t=lAs HoleShot correctly points out in the previous post, it’s following a logarithmic function. What you are doing is on this graph, you’re drawing a straight line between the first and last point, you’re then extending that line to predict the future. Surely you can see that the slope of the line you’re drawing is not following the latest trend of the curve. And like i told you some posts before i dont know what hashrate chart u are looking at. The one im looking at we are back at hashrate lvls of 15 days ago and it keeps going down. Perhaps this one: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rateor this one: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-hashrate.html#1yor this one: https://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/bitcoin-network-hashrate-chart, or this one: https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/hashrate/6m?c=m&g=15&t=a… Which one are you looking at? Also nobody expects difficulty to simply go flat Good. but to go up in lower numbers than it is raising after the whole craze in December Not sure why you would expect that, growth rate has always increased. PD: I dont think anybody is discussing with you that selling a s9 for 5k is much better than mining i sold my order of 6 for 4.5k each Very wise decision Sir, instant 12k profit :-) No point in getting too excited. Those numbers are highly conservative and simply to pose as an example to the newbies that are unaware that selling Bitcoin at 7500 USD/ BTC is foolish. When I first started this project and keeping the spreadsheet going we were having 30% to 20% gains on average every difficulty target. What I wanted to demonstrate with this chart that even if the network balanced out and remained at an improbable 1% gain. At the present rate 7500 USD you'd be hard-pressed even make one Bitcoin profitably. I have also set one to a more reasonable 10% increase for the next 6 retargets while BTC is trading at 15000 usd I also make note that anything past 3 difficulty retarget is hard to predict. For reference I set a second difficulty at 1% after 6 target levels.. That is why I try to take the average of 2016-2017 and the last month of 2018. I personally believe that come April we're going to see another 20% increase. This is simply because Samsung is now making a ASICs. With increased production we are also due for an increase in chip performance with the next-generation hardware. Update: For instance if you mined with the S9 under those conservative network difficulty increases you would net 0.49 BTC and at 15000 = 4850 USD. After hardware and power costs your profit would 2500usd. This doesn't even factor in overhead such as employee security and rent or any incidentals. If you took that same investment and purchased BTC at 7500usd now. You would have 0.65btc. So ultimately selling BTC now for hardware seems foolish. That is unless instead of paying tax you prefer to have that tax portion work for you by reinvested in a mining asset you can depreciate. |
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those Avalon 821s ... do you need the separate controller for a single unit or no? NETWORK CONNECTION Through AUC3 + AUC3 I2c to AvalonMiner Controller CONTROLLER AvalonMiner Controller AUC3 Each AUC3 may daisy-chain connect up to 5 devices https://i.imgur.com/v4xu4s1.png - OLD DIFFICULTY from December 6th 2017 New from January 26 2018. https://i.imgur.com/2oBJ4ZD.png |
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Here is a chart that you can use that will help. I have updated it with Bitmains latest offering of the Antminer S9. It seems that the network difficulty will be dropping. Perhaps due to BCH taking a little of the mining hardware out of the picture or older hardware being taken offline to to operating costs. To clarify the chart I have is set to have an increase in difficulty at 1% every 18 days. THIS IS AN ESTIMATE. It may drop % a few times. However I have factored in the average increase over the last two years and even the average from the last year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharing https://i.imgur.com/v4xu4s1.pngGreat work, goes to show some naysayers here talking about Avg 15% increases... Some ppl are very naive to think big mining operations will run at a loss based on faith of a bitcoin price increase. Fact is mining will always be profitable, the only way a S9 becomes unprofitable is if something REALLY good is released in the next few months and they flood the market with it. I do apologize as I had posted the sheet ahead of completing the difficulty estimates. However it still may prove better to buy hardware as the difficulty will level out as adding new hardware to the network does subside.  Here is an example from the above linked document with the new offering from Bitmain. ^ UPDATE: Now with two difficulty dates. Presently set at 5% and 1% on the 6th month. 2ND UPDATE: I added a result at 15,000.00 USD to BTC Estimated Return with a Network difficulty increase of 10% |
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Amazing research man, great job! Can't wait to see the new calculations with the yet-to-be-released chips. Anyway, if I am reading this right, ROI of 1 S9 will be 1 year (if the current BTC price remains unchanged) by November 2018. It is more than highly unlikely to have the same BTC price by Nov, so I think that all S9 owners are pretty safe, right? Safe is relative to how much ASIC hardware will hit the network by then. Additionally if your objective is to accumulate more BTC then it seems like a small risk at this point. I also factored the max difficulty before it would become unprofitable. However it seems like a good offering. Also if you liked the work then +1  |
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You know that the power cost needed to mine 1 btc is approximatively (depends on many factors) between 2k and 4K usd ?
It can't go to 0. Never. 3k seems to be the absolute bottom to me, and we won't reach it.
Here is a chart that you can use that will help. I have updated it with Bitmains latest offering of the Antminer S9. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharingBetween 2k and 4k to create 1BTC? There is a short window of oportunity to make such things as network difficulty depending on how much hardware does make its way onto it. The network difficulty rises you may never make 1BTC from the hardware. At this price it may be way more profitable to simply purchase BTC. Here is an example from the above linked document. ^ UPDATE: Now with two difficulty dates. Presently set at 5% and 1% on the 6th month. It seems that the network difficulty will be dropping. Perhaps due to BCH taking a little of the mining hardware out of the picture or older hardware being taken offline to to operating costs. |
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i don't know why the price keep dropping Pay attention to the altcoins Bch Trading pairs with dash ether ltc zec seem to be funneling ETH - BTC value in order to pop up bch USD. |
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The market players exchanges will though, when Robinhood launches crypto we will see a premium on there I'm sure until enough supply moves over to there, pulling from other exchanges. When others see how many people are trading on Robinhood (a company the others are already stressing about) they'll have discussions of their own cryptocurrency exchanges. This doesn't just power supply on each exchange but it increases standard market investors ease of buying and sure will increase demand.
How does an exchange have impact on a price? Coin supply vs demand  once you have to hold reserves and are frequently audited that you comply there is less fractional reserve trading going on. Kraken is one such exchange that had audits to prove BTC balances were 1 to 1. Here ends today's master class session |
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The more coins these funds will contain, the lower the number of available on-exchange coins will be
But that's what I just said: these etf's will NOT be coins based, they will NOT acquire coins, but futures instead. So the impact on the market is 0. I shared my perspective free of charge. Little to no accountability on existing exchange platforms are going to soon be a thing of the past. Soon we should expect to see regular 1 to 1 reserve and perhaps quarterly audits to verify there is no fractional reserve trading going on. There is nothing wrong to have different opinions Oh and forgot to add: "On February 6, the Senate Banking Committee will be held and broadcasted live online" that is tomorrow" update" You are correct it is re-scheduled for the 14th http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr7690-18 |
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