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41  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] TrueFlip - Become a part of the world's largest blockchain lottery +Bounty on: March 24, 2018, 04:27:22 AM
What's the percentage of total coins currently held by the team? Can I see that anywhere?
42  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 24, 2018, 03:15:10 AM
Another beauty from the FireLotto White Paper:

Yield per token is 3.20 U.S. cents from each 16 million tickets sold, which is more than 20% per annum of the amount of
funds invested in Fire Lotto tokens.

Sounds great, but is it really that good? First of all, let's assume they will actually sell 16 million tickets per year (~nearly 44000 per day, currently after being active for more than 2 months: less than 400).

I paid USD 0.38 for my FLOTS, assuming a return of 3.2 US cents per year that would be 0.032/0.38*100 = 8.42%

Looking at the increasing cost of the tokens, that yield is only going to get lower:

2. How much will one token cost?
15 March 12.00 UTC - 21 March 12.00 UTC - 0.50 $ - Annual yield 6.40%
21 March 12.00 UTC - 27 March 12.00 UTC - 0.60 $ - Annual yield 5.33%
27 March 12.00 UTC - 2 April 12.00 UTC - 0.70 $ - Annual yield 4.57%
02 April 12.00 UTC - 08 April 12.00 UTC- 0.80 $ - Annual yield 4.00%
08 April 12.00 UTC - 15 April 12.00 UTC - 0.90 $ - Annual yield 3.56%

The only way you could achieve 20% with 16m tickets sold is if you paid USD 0.16 for your tokens, but who paid that?

This is even an updated version, the old version of the white paper stated: "Yield per token is 1.60 U.S. cents from each 16 million tickets sold, ..." So the white paper was updated but they don't use any version management, they still pretend it was written in January.

As for the advertising campaign they keep mentioning, nobody has seen any advertising, the only thing they do is go to trade fairs (which is great) and they have the referral campaign (15% of ticket sales). There doesn't appear to be another advertising campaign pulling in 40+ thousand gamblers per day. All they say is soon, it will happen soon, after ico, after a few months, etc.

I asked them about these calculations, that 20% was a bogus percentage and they couldn't really deny that my figures are correct. Yet, no changes were made. They might as well pretend that they're going to sell 100 million tickets per year, works wonders for the return on investment.

I really thought I signed up for something new, something that would change things, finally I would be on the side of the lottery that always wins, unfortunately I'm now financially linked up with these rude Russian clowns.
43  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 24, 2018, 01:58:05 AM
Scammers never start a project like our lottery platform, they just get money on pre-ico and go away! We have a working product, make PR and advertisements, add new partners and payment services to firelotto.com

Focus more on the positives, answer any and all questions and take away people's doubt. I think you're underestimating how you are feeding the negative thoughts surrounding this project with the strange personal attacks (black PR, paid shills etc). Just address the outstanding issues, clarify the 3 addresses, clarify the adviser issue, back up more statements like "4 months until gaming licence".

Another dodgy example from the WP:
12. How much will your tokens cost in the future?
Token prices are influenced by many different factors, including political and economic ones. We can compare our product with TrueFlip, an online lottery that is already operating. If you look at the diagram below, you will see that the average price of the TFL coin (True Flip lottery) is about USD 1.00 (USD 1.05 as of October 20, 2017), (USD 3.29 as of January 07, 2018).
[TrueFlip charts]
We believe that the price of the Lotto token will exceed USD 1.00.

ICO's rarely make price predictions for after their ICO, prices are made by markets, not by the ICO team. Your claim of a USD 1 valuation is based on TrueFlip being worth USD 1. But you're forgetting one very important issue here, TrueFlip's total supply of tokens is under 9 million, circulating supply under 7 million. So by your reasoning, since TrueFlip is worth ~USD 9 millioni in total, so should FireLotto, since it's such a similar company. So a total valuation of USD 9 million, divided by the total token supply of FireLotto of 100 million tokens, meaning an estimated price per token of USD 0.09.

That piece of information should never have been allowed into the white paper in the first place. It's incorrect, misleading and based on thin air.

PS This is one of the things I wanted answers to in the Telegram channel, after I got banned there (after getting no answers) I opened an account here. And I don't speak Russian, btw.

44  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 24, 2018, 12:32:52 AM

Oh man, do you trust such posts? We have information that FLOTS(C)AM-fiaggin-atenolol-Gorbal is a ONE PERSON! he and a couple of his associates earn on posting such unsubstantiated content!

I think Gorbal also posts in Russian on the Russian thread, flaggin is a bit a-technical in that he doesn't understand html code and we all post throughout the day, possibly indicating we're in very different time zones. The language we use is very different. It's a bit like saying all people supporting this project are really only one person.

So once again: Show us the evidence.

PS I am an actual investor in FireLotto, which is why I care. Since flaggin already proved that showing you a screen print of an investor page doesn't convince you lot ("probably downloaded from the internet"), you're just going to have to take my word for it. You can check all my posts, I - as opposed to quite a few "admins" here - haven't told a single lie.
45  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 11:55:46 AM
If Firelotto turns out to be a scam this would really be a surprise given the effort done in the promotion, with the partecipation to so many international events. Usually scammers wouldn't make such efforts. But are their online lotteries already working or not? It looks like they are. Again, scammers wouldn't make the effort to deliver a working product ahead of their scam. But of course some of the problems raised seem to real. Couldn't it be that we are in front of a legit project which has been advertised in an irresponsible way, by the use of unnecessary lies? Just a thought of mine.

I considered that a lot, and I really hope it to be true but I now think it's wishful thinking.

The effort done in promotion consists of going to gambling trade fairs, which is really not that expensive to organize and they've collected more than 3 million usd already, their goal is to keep the money coming in during the ICO. It seems typical for scam ICO's to have a really low soft cap (hurray, the project goes ahead!) and a really high hard cap, so you don't have to stop the project early on in case it catches on. The approach was also unusual that they had a private sale until 15 January, then one month public pre-sale, then a break of a month (why?), then the "real" ico from 15 March for a month. They seem to have stretched it out as much as they possibly could.

Nearly the whole team is the same as the one behind CashPokerPro, which was very similar in that it promised a very high price after ICO (the markets decide that price, not the ICO team) which was based on nothing. The price of CashPokerPro tanked after ICO and very little communication was done to investors, essentially the project was bled to death. When I did get a reaction from CashPokerPro on this, he said the project is still under development and that a product will be presented "soon". It's an easy defense that you can keep up forever.

There's just too many unanswered questions for it to be a legit ICO.

Just suppose they're genuine, why would you advertise it in an irresponsible way with the occasional lie thrown in. If you're the CEO of an ICO like that, would you not sit down with your team and simply address everyone's concerns? Take away doubt and double the amount of investments? Instead, they call people with criticism liars/scammers and don't address any questions/concerns. In fact, even good scammers would probably just address most of the questions/concerns in order to get more investments.

So the FireLotto team isn't just a bunch of scammers, they're a bunch of bad scammers. Coming up with a working product was an absolute stroke of genius though. They're just letting themselves down with the "customer service" team.
46  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 09:48:19 AM
We're not getting answers from the admins (apart from "You're all scammers and out to get us!"), so we're being made to believe that it is indeed a scam.

They added you to their "Scammers List" too. (In Russian thread)  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2643539.msg32925401#msg32925401 I guess that by the end of this scammy ICO that scammers list will include all forum members who asked a single question about this scam ... Grin

I have always been polite, kind, clear and just want some answers. Being placed on their scam list for that is just ridiculous. This whole story about how they were being extorted by organized scammer is all just a big smoke screen to distract from what they are up to.

It's now abundantly clear that this team are the true con artists, the scammers, there's just no other scenario that would explain their actions.

It's all so dishonest, it makes me wish I had never heard of FireLotto.

For anyone reading this: Please do NOT invest in FireLotto, you're going to lose your investment just like the investors in CashPokerPro.
47  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
very useful information, is this project a scam? currently the firelotto ICO is running and reached the softcap and collected $3.668.290.

They do have a working product and they're going to a lot of trade shows, announced a few strategic partnerships and (appear to have) registered with SEC. Not sure how the SEC would feel about an ICO without KYC though...

They kicked a number of investors out of their Telegram chat for asking persistent (but necessary) questions, for example about some mistakes in the white paper (in roi calculations and unrealistic value claims for the token after ico etc.).

There appear to be at least two advisers who are listed on the FireLotto website that are not actually currently involved in the project (Ronnee Ades and Robert Matuk) but FireLotto keeps them on the site anyway, which is more than strange.

We're not getting answers from the admins (apart from "You're all scammers and out to get us!"), so we're being made to believe that it is indeed a scam.
48  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 06:31:28 AM
Your investors care about evidence, you don't give any and disregard anybody else's. If I had heard people lost money in a project with this many lies and this much deception I would really think they have only themselves to blame. Having a working product and going to all these trade shows is great window dressing, but you cannot answer the most basic questions without telling us lies.

Shame on you.

Btw, here's the evidence about the nicknames accused of scamming:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2579275.msg31655617;topicseen#msg31655617

Dear community, be careful these scammers want to get money from us.
They had black PR attack on other projects. Remember admins never write you first, if it happen please click report as spam.


Says the person with a minus 2 trust rating on Bitcointalk (Warning: Trade with extreme caution!). And by the way, just because you write in big letters doesn't make it true. I am not interested in illegal extortion practices, you don't know anything about me, really.

I am just an investor who isn't getting any answers from our beloved, friendly, kind and cooperative FireLotto team.

All I am asking is:
- Please provide evidence that Ronnee Ades is a current advisor to FireLotto.
(Either get her to confirm her current association with FL on Twitter, or simply apologize for the mistake and remove her from your list of advisors)
- Please provide evidence that Robert Matuk is a current advisor to FireLotto.
(Either get him to confirm his current association with FL, or simply apologize for the mistake and remove him from your list of advisors)
- Please provide evidence that an application has been made with the Isle of Man Gaming commission for a license

That's all, these are hardly the words of a scammer trying to extort money. Anyway, an attack on the person asking (hard) questions is the lowest form of defense. The easiest would just be to answer the questions and take the sting out of it.

But you are unable, unwilling or both.
49  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 04:15:34 AM
Your investors care about evidence, you don't give any and disregard anybody else's. If I had heard people lost money in a project with this many lies and this much deception I would really think they have only themselves to blame. Having a working product and going to all these trade shows is great window dressing, but you cannot answer the most basic questions without telling us lies.

Shame on you.

Btw, here's the evidence about the nicknames accused of scamming:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2579275.msg31655617;topicseen#msg31655617
50  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 23, 2018, 03:58:18 AM
The accounts of extortionists and the team of scammers are created only to defame the reputation of the project Fire Lotto

Scam team accounts:
- Mosprognoz;
- Circles;
- Gorbal
- atenolol
- flagpole
- kermitas
- hemlockboy


Evidence:
https://image.ibb.co/fp01hn/1.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/hGjDTS/2.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/eCehOS/e7e565b2_e10a_40aa_bcf9_3b3e0c3079a9.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b42/1803/6e/f1958c607219.jpg
https://d.radikal.ru/d00/1803/64/3983be6624ea.jpg

I did a member search on the accounts of 'Circles and flagpole' but there are no such members and also no member accounts existing for those people. Can you explain where these names came from, please?

Learned to edit nicknames?

Dear Mr Tommy Cash,

Your accusation become more ridiculous by the day.

Anybody with the time and interest can just browse back in this thread to see:
- Where you (the admins) first called out Mr flaggin as being a scammer. or even part of the team of scammer who are conspiring against you (very James Bond).
- He then proved that he was an investor by showing a screenshot of his investor page, to which you agreed to remove him from the scammer list.
- Now very strangely, instead of removing his name from the list, you changed the name into flagpole, a name that has never taken part in this thread. Most curious.

Your credibility is really going down the drain, yet you don't seem to care. It makes us investors wonder why you don't care. Perhaps this whole ICO etc isn't really that important to you. You probably only have time invested in this thing and no money at stake. Instead you probably gain whether or not FireLotto becomes a success.

The reason we want to see evidence is that you have lied too many times.

A.M.
51  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 22, 2018, 07:07:23 AM
In the worst case scenario they stop developing the website and leave it hanging like they did in CashPokerPro, just walking off with the investments to date. Best case scenario: the website gets successful and the investors do well, the team gets filthy rich.

The problem is that no exchange (good one) will list Fire Lotto tokens. All reputable exchanges are asking about token and crowdsale contracts together with GitHub source. This scammers do not have a crowdsale contract, only a token contract that has just 5 transactions on it. (check previous posts) So called running smart contracts of Fire Lotto on GitHub are closed source and fake. Only a scam exchange like etherdelta or forkdelta will list this token and you will not be able to sell your flots even for a half of ICO price. (same happened with cashpokerpro) This is the real case scenario where scammers will run away with ICO money, leaving investors with low volume and scammy exchanges.


That's my fear and none of the admins do anything to allay those fears. Instead, they probably call you a scammer and say that FireLotto is fully decentralized (it's not) and transparent (it's not).
52  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 22, 2018, 03:23:37 AM

Dear commutiny! You can see these scammers. Please be careful. They had black PR attack on other projects and remember ADMINS NEVER WRITE YOU FIRST!

True will win these liars!



Hello kind sir,

Attacking the messenger is a very common tactic, but won't dissuade me from asking the same, simple questions.

- Please provide evidence that Ronnee Ades is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that Robert Matuk is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that an application has been made with the Isle of Man Gaming commission for a license

You could let Robert and Ronnee post on Twitter that they're advising FireLotto, would be good publicity too. You could post communication from the Isle of Man gaming commission confirming your application.

Thanks!

PS I am not a scammer (how would that work here?) and also not a "stooped donkey" (is that even an insult?).
PPS True will win these liars!
53  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 22, 2018, 03:04:23 AM
New video with popular questions and answers about FireLotto - international blockchain crypto lottery .

https://youtu.be/dJ687hWrRXo

Well.. she speaks perfect English and is very convincing...  Grin Did you hire her for 20 bucks?  Grin

Ok, so I watched the video.

What will happen to all unsold tokens after ICO?
All the unsold tokens will be frozen for a year with no commission if we don't achieve hardcap.


What exactly does commission have to do with tokens? I was of the understanding that the commission was based on the number of tickets sold on the lottery.



The incoming commission is split over all tokens that were sold or are held by the team. The tokens that are not sold will be frozen and not accumulate any commission for the first year (until the end of the year? 12 months into next year? From/until what date?). So currently about 20 million flot sold out of a possible 77 million, 3 million flots bounty and 20 million flots for the team. Just say they sell another 7 million flots over the next few weeks until ico end.

Then the total will look like this:
27 million flots sold, 3 million bounty: 30 million flots
Team holds: 20 million flots
Unsold: 50 million flots

Now let's calculate some commission for an average month. We'll take the most recent draw as being representative of an average day.
4x20: 97 tickets, 5x36: 96 tickets, 6x45: 165 tickets = 358 tickets sold
On average about 30 days in a month and an average ticket price of USD 2.
358 * 30 = 10,740 tickets sold in the month * USD2 = USD 21,480
Commission 10% of ticket sales.
USD 21,480 * 10% = USD 2,148

The unsold tokens do not share in the commission (yet) but will be unfrozen/sold after the year is over.
So commission per token = USD 2,148 / 50,000,000 tokens = USD 0.00004296
So per 1000 tokens = USD 0.04296

Cost to collect commission is playing in the lottery once at a cost of USD 2 (adding $0.20 to the commission), which seems a bit steep.

In this scenario the team holds 40% of the total tokens that share in the commission (20m out of 50m) and after the year is over they will hold (and be allowed to sell) 70% of all tokens (70m out of 100m), seriously diluting the share in commission.

In the worst case scenario they stop developing the website and leave it hanging like they did in CashPokerPro, just walking off with the investments to date. Best case scenario: the website gets successful and the investors do well, the team gets filthy rich.
54  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 22, 2018, 02:40:28 AM
I`m not crazy! We banned in telegram only advertising, links to other projects, rudeness and insults, fraudsters who are trying to breed the participants on the money! No need to lie that we are blocking honest and polite investors for just asking a couple of questions!

You can prove that you invested USD 1000? After ICO you can sell them on the exchange if you have so causeless negativity to the project which you was invested!

No offense, but I don't find it easy to understand what you mean.

Anyway, now that you are online and clearly quite quick to reply (which is much appreciated!), could you please answer the following questions?

- Please provide evidence that Ronnee Ades is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that Robert Matuk is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that an application has been made with the Isle of Man Gaming commission for a license

And please don't change the subject again (it's getting a bit predictable).

Many polite thanks,

A concerned investor.

Send your email you used to invest and we will pm you answers

This is kind of what happened to me in the Telegram chat, I asked questions, got no answers. Then some admin thanked me for my input at the same time as kicking me out of the chat, then they told the chat that they were "working" with me privately to improve the white paper. What really happened was that I was made an offer to correct some mistakes in the white paper (in flot) and when I replied to that I was just left hanging and nobody contacted me again.

So what would I have to gain by giving my email address to you in private? The questions I am asking are simple, general questions that more people would like answers to.

So once again, ever so politely:
- Please provide evidence that Ronnee Ades is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that Robert Matuk is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that an application has been made with the Isle of Man Gaming commission for a license
55  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
Dear flagpole/flaggin,

Apparently you don't accept direct messages from newbies... I meant to send you the following:

Talking to the FL crew seems almost pointless, sometimes I'm convinced that they're a scam and then they do something positive (like update the RNG) that gives me a little hope.

I still hope they're just a little incompetent, rather than malicious.

Fingers crossed, buddy!

flots
(c)
A.M.
56  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 03:01:33 PM
I`m not crazy! We banned in telegram only advertising, links to other projects, rudeness and insults, fraudsters who are trying to breed the participants on the money! No need to lie that we are blocking honest and polite investors for just asking a couple of questions!

You can prove that you invested USD 1000? After ICO you can sell them on the exchange if you have so causeless negativity to the project which you was invested!

No offense, but I don't find it easy to understand what you mean.

Anyway, now that you are online and clearly quite quick to reply (which is much appreciated!), could you please answer the following questions?

- Please provide evidence that Ronnee Ades is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that Robert Matuk is a current advisor to FireLotto
- Please provide evidence that an application has been made with the Isle of Man Gaming commission for a license

And please don't change the subject again (it's getting a bit predictable).

Many polite thanks,

A concerned investor.
57  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 02:42:31 PM

Give any proof of your word about telegram! You is a BIG PAYED LIAR!

You are crazy, I got thrown out myself and personally know 3 other people who were thrown out of the Telegram chat and there's several more here.

Are you even an official admin?

Paid by whom??? I wish I got paid for this, that way I would at least recoup some of my USD 1000 investment in your soon to be worthless flots.
58  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 11:06:54 AM
I read in your whitepaper that the KYC will be introduced. Tell me please, is this necessary for everyone?? How soon it will be?

Kyc - is a policy to know your customer. It doesnt give any guarantees to investors. KYC policy keeps some people away from investing

The best warranty for investor - a running platform with jackpots. For today dont have a KYC.

The best warranty??

This team has told so many lies that it's difficult to believe anything they say. On Telegram they regularly boot people out who ask difficult questions or aren't easily persuaded by the standard non-answers or dodgy Russian/English pasted texts. Here they have been accused of being scammers and in return they accused a whole bunch of other people (at least two of them investors) of trying to scam them... It's like being at primary school all over again.

There was talk of a Gaming registration in the pipeline on the Isle of Man (I personally think they only got their picture taken with the commissioner, which means nothing in itself) but on the Isle of Man you need KYC registration. Not sure how they're going to fix that retroactively.

Accusations instead of answers. VERY difficult to trust.
59  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 09:44:29 AM

Our projects advisors nor team members do not officially respond to private requests due to scam and threat we receive recently.

Even if what you're saying is true, you could still prove it easily. There's really only one reason not to just do that.

It's because you can't.
60  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] Fire Lotto - International blockchain LOTTERY on: March 21, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
What kind of strange defense is it to accuse people with critical questions of being scammers.

Just answer the critical questions.

In case of Ronnee, just provide proof that's she's still your current advisor (same with Robert Matuk). Ronnee agrees that at some stage she advised you on something simple, but she's NO LONGER INVOLVED, stop pretending that she is or provide us with evidence that she is.

Should be very simple, right?

I'm an early investor and we deserve proper answers!

PS My name here might be: FlotsİA.M.
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