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41  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZNN] ZENON • The Network of Momentum on: March 21, 2019, 05:16:13 PM
the logo and website look interesting and informative, the colors remind me of one of the existing cryptocurrency. but, I don't expect more with cryptocurrency staking

As you can read above, the first phase of the network is bootstrapped using a PoS implementation and NoM will be using its own protocol.
42  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZNN] ZENON • The Network of Momentum on: March 21, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
why it’s not an erc20?

The community support is crucial for the growth of such an ambitious project; Zenon is currently based on its own blockchain implementation in order to avoid depending on 3rd party implementations (e.g. ERC-20 tokens) in a transparent manner.
43  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZNN] ZENON • The Network of Momentum on: March 21, 2019, 01:10:35 PM
How do you mine this with cli?

You can create coins using BTC directly in the wallet.
44  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZNN] ZENON • The Network of Momentum on: March 21, 2019, 12:34:15 AM
The distribution cycles are starting with block 1440.
Expect to receive your created ZNN by the end of the following cycle.

https://zenon.network
 
https://t.me/zenonnetwork

https://twitter.com/Zenon_Network
45  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / [MOVED] on: May 25, 2018, 11:54:32 PM
This topic has been moved here.
46  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: POW vs. POS on: May 21, 2018, 04:15:25 PM
PoW's disadvantage is all the energy use.

I think that the advantage of PoW over PoS in large scale implementations is indeed the fact that it uses raw processing power (translated in hashpower) and electricity; this way, the coin gets a real value, being backed by the amount of energy and equiment involved in securing the blockchain, while making it more resilient to larger attackers such as nation states.

Also, when the any cryptocurrency is attacked and part of the network/miners/stakes went offline or can't reach other part of the cryptocurrency network. That would make split-chain happen, but PoW won't have any problem when part of the network went online/can reach other part of network again since the "true" chain is the chain/block with biggest hashrate while in PoS there's no way to determine which chain is "true". CMIIW.

I think if a big miner decide than all the newly started POW coin can be easily attacked by the raw mining power.

A newly started PoW coin can have a different hashing algorithm implemented; for example, Bitcoin uses SHA-256d, Litecoin uses Scrypt, Ethereum uses Ethash, Dash uses X11, Zcash uses Equihash, and so on. The attack depends on your hashpower with regard to a specific hashing algorithm.
47  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Developmentin Blockchain vs. Distributed Ledger on: May 21, 2018, 02:22:23 PM
Let's not deviate from the main topic.

The main topic is the discussion around advantages and disadvantages of different types of distributed ledger technologies; but to do so, one need to understand the inner workings and principles of the underlying technology.

Here are some of my queries

1) If the technology behind bitcoin such as blockchain is suited to build decentralized infrastructure and apps, why some of them are moving to DLT. For example, I was looking into some of the startup such as Radix. They claim that they are an alternative to blockchain, however use DLT for maintaining decentralization. Until this, I thought only blockchain was available so far for building decentralized apps. Does that mean there will competitor to blockchain in the future within the scope of decentralization infrastructure and applications?

For example Radix; they have a distributed ledger secured by their consensus protocol called Tempo; whitepaper link here: https://papers.radixdlt.com/tempo/

Making assumptions like them about synchronized clocks and timely network behavior can unexpectedly turn into vulnerabilities that can undermine the network's security and stability.
48  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Radix - Tempo Whitepaper on: May 20, 2018, 11:03:31 PM
This talk by radix CEO might help you understand the consensus architecture, much better than anything I could explain on a forum post.

https://youtu.be/t46NIbOsztg

I want to bring into discussion the following paper, "On Stake and Consensus" link here: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf

More specifically, chapter 3.4 "No Universal Time":

[...] there is no well-defined clock time in a distributed system. Network latency gives a finite speed of information propagation, which we know from special relativity means different observers cannot agree on the time-ordering of events that occur closely in time [...]

With respect to the time-ordering mechanism that is mentioned in earlier posts to prevent double-spend attacks;

[...] Network latency is not something that can be bounded in an adversarial setting. An attacker may be able to slow systems by arbitrary amounts using denial-of-service measures, and may be able to physically partition the network by other means. In relativistic terms, this means that there is no amount of waiting that will assure somebody that they are no longer spacelike separated from other participants in the network [...]

How this can affect the finality of transactions and how does Radix address network partitioning?

[...] Users who are new to the network or have been offline recently need access to historical data.   But  there  is  no  way  to  verify  after-the-fact  what  order  transactions  occurred  in,  so they cannot be assured that the transactions they are receiving actually occurred before any conflicting ones [...]

This can impact the permissionless property of Radix as an open, public cryptocurrency.

49  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Developmentin Blockchain vs. Distributed Ledger on: May 20, 2018, 09:29:39 PM
No. Bitcoin is a protocol. The miner inside the bitcoin network use PoW to create blocks and ensure security. Bitcoin uses a blockchain as a public transaction ledger.

Bitcoin is "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" - re-read the whitepaper; Bitcoin uses a blockchain architecture, a consensus protocol based on PoW (known as Nakamoto consensus) and an incentivization mechanism to maintain an open, permissionless and public distributed ledger of transactions within a peer-to-peer network of nodes without identities that tolerates byzantine adversaries. I recommend further reading here: https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/454.pdf

A blockchain basically IS a linked list.

This IS an oversimplification.

No. The immutability (or better: resistance against modification) is given through the blockchain. The blockchain is resistant against modification by design.

Your statement is invalid; blockchain is resistant against modifications that do not follow the consensus rules.
50  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Developmentin Blockchain vs. Distributed Ledger on: May 20, 2018, 05:50:47 PM
Bitcoin is NOT a 'special kind of blockchain'.
Bitcoin is utilising a blockchain in order to achieve its goals (fast, trustless transfer of wealth).

It is a special type of blockchain in the way it uses PoW for security, is open and permissionless and has a built-in incentivization mechanism to sustain it; the "special" adjective I used is to describe the underlying cryptoeconomic layer; there are also other blockchain implementations in the form of different cryptocurrencies.

'Blockchain' is simply just a data structure.


The data structure is called hashed linked list;

It is a way to organise/verify/share data in an immutable, trustless way.

The immutability property is given by the consensus protocol; in Bitcoin's case it's the Nakamoto consensus protocol; do some research before commeting without undestanding the points in the post.
51  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: POW vs. POS on: May 20, 2018, 10:49:06 AM
I would like to bring this twitter post from Hal Finney into the discussion: https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1153096538

"Thinking about how to reduce CO2 emissions from a widespread Bitcoin implementation"

Please note the date of the tweet, 27 Jan 2009.
52  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: POW vs. POS on: May 20, 2018, 09:40:15 AM
A lot of people argue that POS is better in the sense that it doesn't contribute to to making climate change worser than it is. I think both POW and POS has its ups and downs.

The problem is that there is a misconception about PoW impacting the climate on a large scale. For example, mining gold and other ores can be much more energy intensive; more insights you can get from this article (several months old): https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-04/bitcoin-vs-gold-which-ones-bubble-how-much-energy-do-they-really-consume although there are other reports with more recent information on the internet
53  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Developmentin Blockchain vs. Distributed Ledger on: May 19, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
A distributed ledger (aka DLT, the abbreviation for distributed ledger technology, also known as shared ledger) is a ledger replicated across a peer-to-peer network that runs a consensus protocol to synchronize digital data.

One definition of the blockchain can be the following: a decentralzied, immutable ledger secured by a consensus protocol that enables trustless transfer of value.

Bitcoin is a special kind of blockchain that enables furthermore permissionless access and provides an incentivization mechanism to sustain and secure the network. The cryptoeconomic layer involves a token in form of a cryptocurrency - bitcoin - that is provided by the network itself to miners that secure it and further to users that proliferate it.

Nowadays more and more DLTs have a cryptoeconomic layer in order to achieve openess, permissionless, trustless transfer of value while maintaining decentralization, censorship-resistance (security) and immutability.
54  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: POW vs. POS on: May 19, 2018, 06:36:53 PM
PoW's disadvantage is all the energy use.

I think that the advantage of PoW over PoS in large scale implementations is indeed the fact that it uses raw processing power (translated in hashpower) and electricity; this way, the coin gets a real value, being backed by the amount of energy and equiment involved in securing the blockchain, while making it more resilient to larger attackers such as nation states.

That would make split-chain happen, but PoW won't have any problem when part of the network went online/can reach other part of network again since the "true" chain is the chain/block with biggest hashrate

Actually, as far as I know, in Bitcoin there are already implemented some mechanisms that can detect network partitioning; the downside is the fact a large portion of the hashpower is geographically located in areas susceptible to network partitioning behind strong firewalls - this can affect decentralization because not always the longest chain/with most accumulated hashpower is the *true* chain, as one can remember what happened in early 2013: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/
55  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: POW vs. POS on: May 19, 2018, 05:24:24 PM
PoW's disadvantage is all the energy use.

I think that the advantage of PoW over PoS in large scale implementations is indeed the fact that it uses raw processing power (translated in hashpower) and electricity; this way, the coin gets a real value, being backed by the amount of energy and equiment involved in securing the blockchain, while making it more resilient to larger attackers such as nation states.

Neither one is perfect. They both have big flaws.

Every complex system has trade-offs, but for the moment PoW has shown its advantages in open, permissionless blockchains due to the robustness of the consensus protocol and its inherent simplicity that greatly reduces the attack surface.
56  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Trillema of scalability, security and decentralization on: May 19, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
trillema triangle

The corners of the triangle are scalability, security and decentralization; for example bitcoin leans towards security and decentralization and less towards scalability.
57  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Quick survery: Consensus mechanisms on: May 19, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
For instance I can bet that if we find pro bitcoin guy he could explain why POW matters and why we shouldn't go against it same goes for other consensus that exists out there.

Proof of Work has many interesting properties. Bitcoin uses a specific PoW puzzle based on SHA-256 hash function in order enforce the miner's commitment of hashing power solely to the security of the bitcoin blockchain; also PoW is more resilient in the context of some attack vectors such as Sybil attacks; it also has some downsides of course, but some of them can be refuted from an economical perspective - bitcoin is backed by raw processing power.

What is economic based?

Some variations of the PoS model that do not have inherently mathematical proofs and usually are inspired from real world scenarios.
58  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Overcoming block limitation in decentralized network architectures on: May 18, 2018, 01:47:00 PM
I agree to your points. The scalability is one of the limitations of blockchain system. To have a smoother transaction experience, the blockchain system has to work more on this drawback of theirs.

The problems arise from the architecture so that's why some concepts should be discussed and treated not only from an implementation perspective, but from real world scenarios as well.
59  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Blockstream's Bitcoin Satelite WWW w/ OuterNet USB Reciever. on: May 16, 2018, 04:04:51 PM
I'd love to see Bitcoin launch a few cubesats via Elons SpaceX and get some nodes orbiting the globe... someday that will happen.   Grin

Cubesats is a viable option but the difficult part is getting them into orbit. There is more competition now in the space industry and the economical entry barrier is lower that is very good from a network decentralization perspective
60  Other / Off-topic / Re: Cant Sleep :( on: May 16, 2018, 03:17:24 PM
Whatever you do, consider medication only as a last resort, but most important figure what actually keeps you awake. A worry, a medical issure and try fix the root of the problem.

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