current version of my Nxt infographic based on Btc transactions:  Looks good! The Transactions Per Second section says Nxt will be able to handle 1000 TPS with Transparent Forging. My understanding is that it won't be limited to this, but may actually support much larger numbers. What is a better way to phrase this? "thousands of transactions per second"? The section on mixing services could be expanded to include examples that the average citizen would find useful. e.g. "you can prevent your insurance company or employer from snooping on your medical expenses and terminating your contract if they suspect you of being ill, and prevent advertizing companies or neighbors from spying on your spending habits". Typo in Transparent Forging section: desifgned => designed. |
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Along those lines **** ANY **** conference you can fund getting Nifty there, I highly recommend it. I showed him the ropes, I brought him into every meeting I had... he's ready to kill it moving forward.
True. A lot of people here have just silly speech, but no action. We need to stop talkin and get movin  Btw many people are willing to pay for conferences themselves too, but let's also invite skilled people who cannot afford it +1 for getting Nifty to every conference possible. It would help to establish continuity with existing contacts and use his experience to coordinate the floor team and meetings. Why not make him a paid "official" Nxt rep? |
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Please do, you would save us a huge headache and efforts, I say we pony up 3Mil Nxt total to compensate you for the work, would that be amenable?
I don't need this 3M. Let's do the task in parallel, spend this amount for the development of another mixing algo and then we'll use the best one. +1. Zerocoin's approach is not simple mixing, it's something more. And if the SNARK thing will hold, it will allow all sorts of applications. The ability to prove that you've executed some code might not seem like much, but it's actually very cool! +1. There's a lot of people watching the ZeroCoin project with great interest. If we can officially release NxtCash as a joint venture with ZeroCoin, that would be a big endorsement, and we'll get a lot of attention from everyone who is interested in anonymity/fungibility. |
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Mom told me to study C++, but I preferred useless stuff like Asm, Basic and Pascal.  That source code is old, anyway. Here's what I could understand from video and reading till 4 in the morning yesterday: The core of their proof is SNARK (Succinct Non-interactive ARgument of Knowledge) - voodoo math that allows others to verify that you actually executed some piece of code, that's why it's so complicated. Everything else is easy: in new version they just use SHA256 and Merkle tree to store the coins. So this SNARK thing looks a bit suspicious to me, but that's probably because it's so original and counter-intuitive and I don't even fully understand it yet Anyway, what they do with it, is create an alternative way for you to prove that you did a chain of SHA256's up to the root. So you can prove that your coin is somewhere on the tree, without revealing any actual hashes, which would identify on which branch your coin is located. Gonna drink my coffee and read more. He also said he hopes people don't invest too much in it at first in case it's flawed. This might give him reason to be cautious about integrating with Nxt before he can prove it works well in a real-world test application. |
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Also, I don't know anything about this, but do economies of scale also apply to electricity? I.e. is it more efficient/cheaper-per-unit to run 10000 computers than it is to run one?
Yes. If you use a lot of power, you can negotiate with your power company to get cheaper rates. Ok, if that's true, then the assumption of linearly increasing electricity costs needs to be corrected as well. Any idea what rate of discount is reasonable? On page 25: "The person with 1 million Nxt has 100x higher chance to get the transaction fees than the person with 100 Nxt. He still pays the same electricity. The person with 1 million GPU miners has 100x higher chance to get Bitcoin block than the person with 100 GPU miners. But he pays 100x more for the electricity.However, he was able to purchase those 1 million GPU miners at a fraction of the cost per miner than the person who only purchased 100, and negotiate a discount with his electricity supplier, due to the economies of scale advantage associated with large-scale operations." And on page 26: "World of Bitcoin: - If you have 1000$, you can mine X Btc thanks to the GPU - If you have 100.000$, you can mine 1000X Btc thanks to some super machine you buy - if you have 100x1000$GPU, you get 100X Btc (+ pay 100x minus discount for electrocity electr icity) - if you have 1x100.000$Machine, you get 1000X Btc (+ pay for electrocity electr icity)" Another edit: on page 26 the title "Only PoW is unfair and rich gets richer" would make more sense as "The rich are favored more in PoW than PoS". |
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After a month of almost daily work I can present you a full text version of the NxtMyths:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtM3g1cU1VSHZtTGM/edit?usp=sharingNew still unpublished chapters - 7. Rich get richer and 8. (no) Innovations over Bitcoin start at the page 25 (actually 8th chapter is only one known table..). There are also some new tables you probably didn't see on previous pages. Comments are enabled for grammar mistakes. Facts and wrong ideas can be discussed here... If you think it's worth any donations, feel free to send them to: 15003961341330858247  Now I can finally switch to the infographics stage  (infographics will mention the NxtMyths paper as a source...) This paragraph at the bottom of page 25 seems to conflict with the general thrust of the argument it is supporting: "The person with 1 million Nxt has 100x higher chance to get the transaction fees than the person with 100 Nxt. He still pays the same electricity. The person with 1 million GPU miners has 100x higher chance to get Bitcoin block than the person with 100 GPU miners. But he pays 100x more for the electricity." You should add: "However, he was able to purchase those 1 million GPU miners at a fraction of the cost per miner than the person who only purchased 100, due to the economies of scale advantage associated with large-scale acquisitions." This provides a logical connection with the next statement concerning economies of scale. Also, I don't know anything about this, but do economies of scale also apply to electricity? I.e. is it more efficient/cheaper-per-unit to run 10000 computers than it is to run one? |
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We just need the 288 byte zeroknowledge proof mechanism
Yep. Searching various related articles too. How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces. Biggest benefit i see for them is that they can skip the long difficult process of getting a secure blockchain with hundreds of servers Also when TF is doing many TPS, so will zerocash Great! This is HUGE incentive for ZeroCoin to work with Nxt! |
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off topic:
Interesting development at eMunie what I told for months now, and where the whole emunie community accused me and attacked me for is becoming true.
Emunie is now emunie ltd. (yes an compagny) and applied with UK law. A lot of the early community members have left emunie for that reason. So one of the consequences is
they can not run any exchange in the software, etc…
Pin
Politely invite the ones who left to get involved with Nxt.  |
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How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces.
This is a good question. We should always be asking what we can offer the other party to help them get what they want. I have heard that the ZeroCoin people were a little miffed that after they found a way to bring anonymity to Bitcoin, they realized that their solution would never see the light of day. The Bitcoin Devs are just too conservative with a $10 B market cap at stake...they can't afford any more screwups, so they are extra cautious. So maybe we can tell ZeroCoin that we are happy to help them implement their solution into our blockchain, and they can also proceed with their Bitcoin fork that implements ZeroCoin. This would show the practical versatility of their solution and give them academic bragging rights. At that point, Zerocoin would have been implemented in both a 100% PoW Bitcoin fork, and also implemented in the 100% PoS Nxt invention. "Our truly anonymous ZeroCoin protocol has not only launched its own currency, it's also been successfully implemented into Nxt, the first 2nd generation cryptocurrency." This would be huge news in the cryptocoin scene and would bring a lot of prestige to both Nxt and ZeroCoin. We should also offer them a respectable bounty and let them choose to take it in Nxt or BTC or some combination of the two. If they want BTC, then we can hold a sale on the forums like they did to raise money for the cryptographic audit. I think it would be a mistake to try to shove NXT down their throats if they prefer bitcoins instead. Totally agree with you, I've reached out to Matthew Green stating such. I hope he gets back to me. Beyond recognition/publicity, what are the application advantages? Speed? TPS? Scalability? Energy efficiency? ... ? Any cool 2nd gen features they can leverage? What do the devs think? Let's hammer out some details. Wish I knew enough to do this myself. |
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We just need the 288 byte zeroknowledge proof mechanism
Yep. Searching various related articles too. How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces. |
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do you all like it? not even started ... plenty more to come I hope i don't kill the coin I like it. No kidding. If that's really u, then u solve the main problem of Nxt - distribution. Edit: I want to see 0.05... that can be aranged no problem, do i get bountie for it? ill bring it to kingdom come just cos i can Why would you care about a bounty if you're a whale and cashing out? Oh wait, you're not. |
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With a divide and conquer approach, we might be able to get zerocoin functionality for NXT before zerocoin!
I'm not sure it's not a theft... Not a theft, they want us to port, they describe exactly how to do it. They wanted bitcoin to adopt their libzerocoin They wanted altcoins to adopt their solution Nobody did, so they were forced to start developing their own coin They are professors, not really into making new coins If this is true then maybe someone should approach them again and tell them what we're planning to do, and ask for their help. Mention that this work will be paid for from the bounty. Klee approached them once, but that was earlier when they may have thought Nxt was a scam, and Klee is not a developer so probably not able to open a discussion on the technical details. If approached by a developer they might be more willing to join the effort. If they don't want to help, then the community can still go ahead and do it without them. |
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I've been meaning to do a major volume overhaul, but haven't the time. Yes, ideally it would aggregate from all exchanges with significant volume. I really want to get that done soon.
Thanks! Keep up the good work! |
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Didn't Cfb once say that Alais + encrypted url = stealth address? |
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Regarding Mixing Service. Do we need such on-chain service that mixes coins with anonymity-reliability trade-off? 30% anonymity means 70% reliability to get all the coins back. Yes, it means that with 100% anonymity u could get 0% - 200% coins back.
can you elaborate on how the mixing service can work and why such high risks are involved? the anonymity feature is quite important in my view. I can't. I don't know the algo. It costs 1M NXT. Cfb, you mentioned BCNext says his concept for mixing is not ready. Is mixing something that needs to be implemented ASAP, or can we wait to compare this guy's idea with BCNexts? Does BCNext think this guy's idea is a better solution? Also this: why not implement zerocoin's zero knowledge proof on top of NXT blockchain using AM?
James
And: oh wow. if both of our major competitors fail just think about how much capital we would absorb.
Hi. How much do u charge as an escrow agent? Estimated amount is 1M NXT. Getting Anon to escrow might be a good way forward! |
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Ya know what i was thinking today? of course you don't thats why I'm about to tell you.
I've been hearing a lot of criticism of bitcoin lately from the potential for altcoins to erode the trust in the concept of digital scarcity. Most notably the interview with adam back on lets talk bitcoin. By building decentralized exchange into the bottom protocol layer I think nxt can potentially restore this trust. Think about it, no other copy of nxt will ever have markets with as much market depth as nxt. Meaning their copy nxt will never has as much utility. Thus a copy of nxt is not "just as good as nxt". Since no copy of nxt will ever be "just as good as nxt" nxt can be thought of as scarce in a way that bitcoin can not.
I think this could be added to our list of "core arguments" in favor of nxt.
Couldn't some other crypto also implement a decentralized exchange into its protocol and compete to gain market depth based on that + some extra advantage that they claim to have? Yea they could in theory. But it wouldn't be like just making a doge and having something thats more or less functionally equivalent to bitcoin. It would have to find some way to build that utility. In a situation where nxt had first mover advantage there wouldnt be any incentive for traders to want to operate in that alternative market when it had low depth, thus it would be difficult for it to ever achieve great depth. Not imposable but difficult. And if this altcoin did manage to pass nxt and become the main trading platform than the same argument would then apply to that coin. Meaning either way the faith in digital scarcity is restored. It doesnt need to be imposable to expand the money supply, only difficult. like gold its not imposable to get more of it, just hard. This is article-worthy. Yea i think it may be also. I'll have to think really hard for a while about whether its wrong or not. Whatever the case, statements like "Please stop making altcoins because they devalue Bitcoin" can only be seen as a greater incentive to create an altcoin. Whichever cryptos end up succeeding need to have so much network effect in their favor that simple clones wouldn't threaten them, and I think accessibility/useability features that can't be cloned (because they depend on a large userbase to be useful, not just simple speculation on value) are a key part of this. I think the real worry for Bitcoin holders is the new wave of truly second generation cryptos like Nxt, because they actually do provide strong reasons for Bitcoin to be devalued. And the solution is simple: buy Nxt! However, if your argument is true, then the future of cryptocurrencies/platforms will not be threatened by Bitcoin's demise. Just because the Ford Model-T is no longer competitive doesn't mean we should all give up on driving cars. |
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Ya know what i was thinking today? of course you don't thats why I'm about to tell you.
I've been hearing a lot of criticism of bitcoin lately from the potential for altcoins to erode the trust in the concept of digital scarcity. Most notably the interview with adam back on lets talk bitcoin. By building decentralized exchange into the bottom protocol layer I think nxt can potentially restore this trust. Think about it, no other copy of nxt will ever have markets with as much market depth as nxt. Meaning their copy nxt will never has as much utility. Thus a copy of nxt is not "just as good as nxt". Since no copy of nxt will ever be "just as good as nxt" nxt can be thought of as scarce in a way that bitcoin can not.
I think this could be added to our list of "core arguments" in favor of nxt.
Couldn't some other crypto also implement a decentralized exchange into its protocol and compete to gain market depth based on that + some extra advantage that they claim to have? Yea they could in theory. But it wouldn't be like just making a doge and having something thats more or less functionally equivalent to bitcoin. It would have to find some way to build that utility. In a situation where nxt had first mover advantage there wouldnt be any incentive for traders to want to operate in that alternative market when it had low depth, thus it would be difficult for it to ever achieve great depth. Not imposable but difficult. And if this altcoin did manage to pass nxt and become the main trading platform than the same argument would then apply to that coin. Meaning either way the faith in digital scarcity is restored. It doesnt need to be imposable to expand the money supply, only difficult. like gold its not imposable to get more of it, just hard. This is article-worthy. |
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Maybe there are many nodes but their solution to the byzantine generals problem is the same one that has been used for thousands of years, central authority. If the ripple foundation was ever compromised than ripple would not be able to continue without them. That is precisely the problem that bitcoin solved and ripple unsolved.
Please expand? I'm not a Ripple expert, but I believe the keyword is "distributed". Big difference. If they could claim decentralized, they would. My understanding is that all transactions on the Ripple network depend on trust relationships between gateways, which act as the authority. Here's an article I found helpful when trying to understand Ripple: http://blog.coinsetter.com/2013/04/29/virtual-currency-trading-wars-bitcoin-versus-ripple-xrp/Gateways deal with all the govt regulations and the issuing of IOUs into the ripple network. Once in the ripple network, all the trades, etc. are done via consensus of distributed rippled servers. The gateways are not directly involved in ripple network transactions other than redemptions. Not sure of the number of non-RL servers, but my guess is around 100 total rippled servers are running. James Ah, so the trust relationship is between the ripple servers. Got it. So, if the server operators (Ripple Foundation, governments, banks?) ever collude to come to a consensus that supports a dishonest transaction, there would be no way to prove otherwise, because the transaction confirmation depends on their consensus rather than a decentralized processing of the blockchain? So the difference between Ripple and all truly decentralized cryptocurrencies is that all Ripple users have to trust the people who control the servers (i.e. the Ripple Foundation). A true crypto like Bitcoin or Nxt is entirely trustless in operation. I think there should be an article on this in the Nxt wiki, because once our decentralized exchange comes out, a lot of people will be asking what the benefit over Ripple is. No, you have it not quite right. The trust relationships are purely between gateways and the customers. This is the way Ripple avoids darkNXT equivalent. Not only does an account have to be funded with a minimal amount of XRP (currently 20 XRP min), in order to accept a specific IOU, the user has to specifically set a trust line for that specific issue from that specific issuer with a specific maximum. It is a real pain in the ass, but it pretty much eliminates any chance of ending up sending something to the wrong address. So, once you get your acct funded and establish a trust line (just filling out a form from your wallet), then you can receive the IOU. You make a fiat deposit to your gateway, then the fiat is exchanged for the IOU. Similar to NXT's Asset Exchange at the high level, with some very big differences. a) In ripple anybody can issue any asset, I think three characters is the limit for Asset name. So in essence each asset gets variants, eg. BTC.bitstamp, NXT.peercover, etc b) Ripple requires minimal XRP balance to do anything, including establishing a trust line or making a trade offer, so really 30 XRP is the practical minimum. c) Ripple requires a trust line to be established before anybody can receive that issue. However, you can directly purchase it from the orderbook without any trustline d) There is this thing called "rippling", which allows the ripple network to automatically convert IOU from one issuer to another issuer of the same asset, if you have it enabled. Pretty nasty if your USD.bitstamp gets rippled into USD.snapswap! USD.snapswap trades at 10% discount to USD.bitstamp. There is even an evil bot in ripple land that searches for hapless newbies that allow rippling between USD.bitstamp and USD.snapswap and automatically converts it. The bot makes an immediate gain of 5% to 10% So, if anybody is afraid about ripple competing with NXT, rest assured, it can't. Ripple is designed for mass market consumers to exchange their local currency to another currency, across the world. As far as the servers go, unless some entity gets control of 51% of servers, I doubt any funny business is possible. Everything is in a public ledger. Ripple is basically firstgen as far as immunity from 51% attack goes, eg. not immune at all. Very unlikely ripple would attack its own network as they need it to expand so they can continue to add the 48 billion XRP stockpile into the network. Nothing is perfect and ripple is no exception. It does have a lot of corporate backing and it does have some utility, so it won't go away. I just don't see it growing by leaps and bounds. That being said, XRP value could easily double or triple or lose 50%, as it is not very liquid at all. Total daily volume of XRP trades are less than $250,000/day for all issues in ripple. This is why I keep saying Ripple's function is to be a gateway of fiat <-> crypto, including NXT. James Thanks for the explanation James! Any thoughts on writing something on this for the wiki? You could use what you just wrote as the base. |
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Leveraging contacts... want to get the ball rolling: https://bittylicious.com/Is there anyone with a UK based bank account willing to sell their Nxt (you name the price) for a service such as Bittylicious? I've been in contact with Marc quite a bit for Peercoin and want to start the ball rolling here. If you're interested, please drop me a PM. This is a VERY EASY way to get Nxt into the hands of new people. Cool! Hope it works out! |
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