OP so desperate to flame BitShares it's spamming the alt section ahah epic  You always find a way to amuse me! Just like the politics who attack each others like dogs with no valid arguments.

DecentralizeEconomics

I have read some of your posts about BitShares however can you explain why BitShares does not work technically?

It's visible in this screenshot from the future - https://i.imgur.com/0nkszPg.png

Good job.

Now take the bitAssets dollar value, ~$29K and delete that. It would be like options/derivatives volumes being added to the underlying stock volume itself. You can keep track if them individually, but adding them all together is nonsense. Trading BTS for BTS is not an exchange for anything. BitUSD is just another form/derivative of BTS.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/?markets=all#markets

Do the math mother fucker. Add it up and tell me how I am lying. You guys are such idiots. "Blatant bullshit", "lies about coins", "not sure it's the case", god, you guys are some of the dumbest people on here. Even TestZ provided the link. You couldn't even click it and see because your heads are so far up your ass.

main problem with bitshares is : it's too complicated.
it's my own opinion, but i wanted to invest in it few days ago and tried to get more informations.... but i resigned
there isn't an official ann thread here, i couldn't find any clear coin specifications,
i was lost between what is bitshares, bitsharesX, pts, etc. etc..etc....  
WTF so complicated?  is that coin only for the tech nerds?  
make it simple... or at least keep it complicated for the insiders, but build a simple cover for newcomers that aren't such tech-hardcore
this stuff exist already? cool.... please post the link and i will check again cuz i'm still interested

DecentralizedEconomics, you seem to be under the impression that if you call Bitshares enough words that people associate to negative things, that you can make reality bend to your will, and the Bitshares codebase will somehow morph into some monstrosity.

I am not sure what your gameplan is, whether you are an NXT supporter who desires to hurt Bitshares as a perceived competitor, or what.  Personally NXT and Bitshares are my two favorites, and I wish both communities could get along better.  They are the most similar coins to each other, and yet we bicker, when we should all be ganging up against Ripple!


Anyway, a corporation governed by the vote of its shareholders is hardly "communist".  Calling it such is a misrepresentation of Orwellian terms, like saying 'slavery is freedom'.   You claim to want to have a rational discussion of Bitshares, and yet your choice of terms reveals a very strong and clear bias against it.  Wouldn't it be much more productive to analyze the Bitshares consensus system in a fair and balanced, academic way?  (Of course, on the other side Stan Larimer is not exactly an impartial voice here either.  I'm pretty sure the truth lies somewhere in between you two).




If Bitshares is a successful implementation of a corporate voting structure on a blockchain, then that is an important innovation!  It is important just like NXT's asset exchange is an important innovation.


Your claim that Bitshares inflaiton is "theft" does not pass the test of reason.  Were participation in the Bitshares blockchain compulsory, then you could claim that taxation is theft and make this case.  But being a Bitshares holder and using the Bitshares blockchain is an entirely voluntary act.  One can choose to take their business elsewhere and use NXT or Bitcoin or anything else if one desires.  Thus, even in the very worst case, in which Bitshares delegates have locked themselves in place and issue themselves free BTS, one could not make the case that it was "theft", only that this inflation was a fee that a user would need to voluntarily pay in order to use the service of BTS. 

In reality, most delegates are probably going to be providing value to Bitshares.  If delegates act as parasites and shareholders cannot remove them, then that is a flaw in Bitshares, and would make it clearly worse than NXT, but it would be no more of a flaw than Bitcoin inflating itself 10% a year for miners.   Until we see such parasitical behavior, we should not assume it will be the case, rather we should treat Bitshares as an experiment, which might work or might not.  So far Bitshares voters have already kicked out one paid delegate who didnt provide updates on their progress.  That seems to be a positive sign.

Yes, things would be better if a greater percentage of the total stake was voting.  18% for top delegate and 8% for 101st delegate is too low, and this means that one could execute an attack with only 10% of stake or so, whereas ideally we would want it to require 51%.  But is that better than in the alternatives?  What percentage of NXT are used to forge?   

These numbers have been rising slowly over time.  A few months back it was around 12% for top delegate and 5% for the bottom.  The Bitshares system scales up as people care more.  If the price rises, if the market cap were to grow by an order of magnitude, how much more would people care? 



I definitely feel that the Bitshares team has made some mistakes.  Their product is too complicated and difficult to explain, they have not delivered on time on some promises, and they hurt their community with the 'merger'.  But I do not see them as malevolent as you imply.  Rather, I think they are too idealistic, they lack a get it done type who pressures them to execute on their schedule and meet deadlines.  The Bitshares devs are too fond of dreaming up new ideas when they haven't finished the old ones yet.

To refer to such libertarian idealists as 'communist' is unfair and absurd.  Few coin developers embody libertarian ideals as much as Bytemaster does on his blog.  It would be much more reasonable to accuse the Bitshares devs of being libertarian dreamers than 'communists'.   Perhaps some day they will succeed in actually getting a product released that is as usable as NXT.  I find it strange sometimes that Bitshares has a higher market cap than NXT when I think NXT is further along in its development, but I still invest in it because I can see the potential and I believe in diversification.  Bitshares is more highly valued only because it is popular among the chinese, I think, but as a result it has the potential to catch on in china which would make it huge.


At the very least we should be fair to each coin and rationally analyze their strengths and weaknesses.  Being a communist engine of oppression is not Bitshares' weakness, it is simply a gross misrepresentation. 

(Everything)

No, they did not start out good, from everything I've read.

They started out taking orders for mining hardware they didn't have, and my understanding is that they just took the money, bought Zeus miners (maybe mined with them a while before shipping), then shipped some of those Zeus miners to people and called them GAW miners.

But then they kept taking orders for hardware and stopped shipping hardware.  After people waited a few months to receive the hardware they had already paid for, GAW eventually told them "You're not getting any hardware, but you can have these imaginary hashlets instead."

But the hashlets didn't exist, it was a ponzi scheme where they paid out a little bit at a time to make people think they were earning money.  But it was just "Give me $3,000 and I'll give you back a few dollars a day of your own money".

So it couldn't last forever;  eventually the money would run out...unless they could convince everyone to "convert" their hashlets into Hashcoins, Paycoins, HashStakers, and other made-up b.s. that GAW can create out of thin air. 

So GAW kept the dollars, GAW kept the bitcoins, and they made up a new worthless money to give people instead.  And people accepted it, based on false promises such as "guaranteed $20 price" and "XPY debit card" and "major retailer acceptance" and "Paybase services" and things like that.  You know, basically fraud.


So at what point was it a legitimate business of any kind?  Wasn't it all a scam from the start, which just kept morphing into different kinds of scams?

If any of my facts are incorrect, please tell us what really happened.

honestly
i hate this price