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Sorry for my ignorance of MN, few questions.
What happens if someone doesn't want to be a MN any more, do they get the original 2000 back with any gains, or is that 2000 gone? What is the 'exit' procedure? We'd be able to sell the nodes themselves to each other like on ebay if necessary.
Also, what's the required amount of time (like contract?) needed for a MN?
Funny you ask because I was in the middle getting ready to post this info. I saw the word "contract" and thought it a good time to explain a few things more. Ok the very rough steps on how you set one up. - Get a machine with a static ip (Amazon or Digital ocean or other server platform) - Setup firewall rules (close all ports except 9999) - Make sure only port 9999 is Open - Download the daemon - Use getaccountaddress 0 to get an address on that daemon - Send EXACTLY 2000 OC to that daemon - Encrypt the wallet with a strong password, make a backup of the wallet, do not copy the wallet while the daemon is running - In the conf file add "connect=xxxxxxxx" and "masternode=1" - Restart the daemon - masternode start `head -1` (type your password on the next line) Once your set up the masternode start `head -1` is what locks your 2000 OC and makes them available for Anon transactions. Also makes the wallet address made by getaccountaddress 0 eligible for reward payouts. The 2000 OC will be locked and unable to be spent, However if you want to spent them and Stop the masternode its a simple as a Stop command I'm working on you being able to spent the reward earnings out of the wallet address with out stopping the masternode, More to follow on that. This was just a rough example and is not the final or may not be the exact way to set the Masternode up, however you guys need to see that you contral when your 2000 OC are and are not Masternodes.
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ok lets look at the 15% payment plan (using say 10 nodes)
the first year these 10nodes will get 1,500,000 OC div by 12months = 125,000 OC div by 10nodes = 1,250 OC (average)
which at say 500 sats/OC is currently worth about $41 per node (per month)
all seems reasonable so far
but when the nodes go online the whole world is expecting a substantial price rise (modestly say 10x) so within a month we could be paying $410 per node for the same service
or Orange could be 20x in a month (we'd be paying $8,200 for our 10 MNs in month two), and where will OC be in 4 months? with 8 months left on this 15% contract being proposed.
bottom line is... the price/value of OC is too serious a variable to set a sane fixed payment plan that has any shelf life, i don't see how we divine the value of orange even a few weeks down the road. That is the source of confusion here.
I think this MN service has to be floated on the market from month-one (month-one seems to have some extra complications anyway)
For the moment at least, we simply make deals with 10 or so MN entities and we try to keep them happy on a month by month basis.
If we fail, they stop the service, but first they will just say they need more compensation. so we either pay them, replace them, or both (in that order) if we don't like their price, ie if we think they've grabbed us by the curlies.
So suppose we just pay the orange equivalent (pealing OC off the end of PoS) of some USD dollar amount, either monthly (just for availability) or based on trans/amount handled.
so that the average MN payouts would be X dollars per month (then we only have to decide what X is)
i know ppl want to avoid the USD but i don't see how we proceed at all here with out some kind of benchmark, and orange is currently way too young and restless to be that mark.
EDIT: (alternately i guess we could offer a fixed btc reward paid in OC, but even this would have to be market flexible [say monthly] reacting to the changing value of btc)
well really there will be 100's and then 1000's of nodes, if I ever said 10 nodes it was defiantly a mistake!! N=numbers of masternodes M= required amount of coins for a masternode H= Total coins in masternodes M*N
E= coin % rewarded to masternodes first year of the 10 million D= % reward per PoS (E-10 million)/50 million/24.33333
B= coins per block (E/365/720) (E/days/blocks) F= coins per block per masternode (B/N)
S= reward that M would make every 15 days from PoS stake to compare to masternode (M*D) Z= masternode reward every 15 days (F*720*15)
Py= 1 year compounding PoS interest of M, (24 stakes/yr) Py=M(1+ APR/24)^24 My= 1 year of masternode rewards (24 staking days of a yr, or 360days) Z*24
N= 1,000 200 1,000 1,000 500 1,000 2,000 1,000 M= 10,000 10,000 5,000 1,000 2,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 E= 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 1 mil 500k 500k 1 mill
H= 10 mil 2 mil 5 mil 1 mil 1 mil 1 mil 2 mil 2 mil
S= 61.64 61.64 30.82 6.16 14 7.8 7.8 14 Z= 102 513 102 102 82.19 20 10 41
Py= 1,589 1,589 794 158 386 205 205 386 My= 2,465 12,328 2,465 2,465 1,972 480 240 984 here is may original works, "N" is the number and it was worked out for 500 and 1,000 nodes. Once again once ppl see that more can be made (10% of the 20% or 2%) if they set up a master node. The more ppl that will set one up, meaning have to come and BUY the 2000 OC at the market price. As we all know buying at the SELL price causes the price to raise. And once again I'm very sorry to have to use another coin as an example but this example is purely for the numbers here. http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/ Ok we see a masternode count box 280 / 351 active/total This is why we have set the req OC to only 2000, so that it increases how many ppl can get involved. Let use look at the Active number of masternodes, they have 280 at price right now ($ 11.41) and their req at 1,000 that is $3,194,800 Lets look at that 1 more time $3,194,800 invested in masternodes Now I'm not saying we will get that kind of number however 10 masternodes is way to low of a number to do the math with. 1,000 MN for OC would cost $5,458 at market value right now. Saying 10 is like thinking only 10 ppl will mine a coin at launch, but the real amount of miners is equal to ROI. So once again the number of MN will be set based on when profits are to low.
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.
Year/ Coins/ PoS/ PoS rewards/ % of PoS reward/ MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 10% 1,000,000 2 61,000,000 10% 6,100,000 10% 610,000 3 67,710,000 5% 3,385,500 10% 338,550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1,785,851 10% 178,585 5 73,398,486 2.5% 1,834,962 10% 183,496 6 75,416,945 2.5% 1,885,424 10% 188,542 7 77,490,911 2.5% 1,937,273 10% 193,727 8 79,621,911 2.5% 1,990,548 10% 199,055 9 81,811,513 2.5% 2,045,288 10% 204,529 10 84,061,330 2.5% 2,101,533 10% 210,153 11 86,373,017 2.5% 2,159,325 10% 215,933 12 88,748,274 2.5% 2,218,707 10% 221,871 13 91,188,852 2.5% 2,279,721 10% 227,972 14 93,696,545 2.5% 2,342,414 10% 234,241 15 96,273,200 2.5% 2,406,830 10% 240,683 16 98,920,713 2.5% 2,473,018 10% 247,302 17 101,641,033 2.5% 2,541,026 10% 254,103 18 104,436,161 2.5% 2,610,904 10% 261,090 19 107,308,156 2.5% 2,682,704 10% 268,270 20 110,259,130 2.5% 2,756,478 10% 275,648 21 113,291,256 2.5% 2,832,281 10% 283,228 22 116,406,766 2.5% 2,910,169 10% 291,017 23 119,607,952 2.5% 2,990,199 10% 299,020 24 122,897,171 2.5% 3,072,429 10% 307,243 25 126,276,843 2.5% 3,156,921 10% 315,692 26 129,749,456 2.5% 3,243,736 10% 324,374 27 133,317,566 2.5% 3,332,939 10% 333,294 28 136,983,799 2.5% 3,424,595 10% 342,459 29 140,750,854 2.5% 3,518,771 10% 351,877 30 144,621,502 2.5% 3,615,538 10% 361,554 31 148,598,593 2.5% 3,714,965 10% 371,496 32 152,685,055 2.5% 3,817,126 10% 381,713 33 156,883,894 2.5% 3,922,097 10% 392,210 34 161,198,201 2.5% 4,029,955 10% 402,996 35 165,631,151 2.5% 4,140,779 10% 414,078 36 170,186,008 2.5% 4,254,650 10% 425,465 37 174,866,123 2.5% 4,371,653 10% 437,165 38 179,674,941 2.5% 4,491,874 10% 449,187 39 184,616,002 2.5% 4,615,400 10% 461,540 40 189,692,942 2.5% 4,742,324 10% 474,232 41 194,909,498 2.5% 4,872,737 10% 487,274 end of yr 41 200,269,510
I do like the 10% it only takes 5 years off the reward period and still gives the masternodes an ok amount
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 15% of what the PoS gets. The extra 15% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 7 years off the reward period.
Year Coins PoS PoS rewards % of PoS reward MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 15% 1,500,000 2 61,500,000 10% 6,150,000 15% 922,500 3 68,572,500 5% 3,428,625 15% 514,294 4 72,515,419 2.5% 1,812,885 15% 271,933 5 74,600,237 2.5% 1,865,006 15% 279,751 6 76,744,994 2.5% 1,918,625 15% 287,794 7 78,951,412 2.5% 1,973,785 15% 296,068 8 81,221,266 2.5% 2,030,532 15% 304,580 9 83,556,377 2.5% 2,088,909 15% 313,336 10 85,958,623 2.5% 2,148,966 15% 322,345 11 88,429,933 2.5% 2,210,748 15% 331,612 12 90,972,294 2.5% 2,274,307 15% 341,146 13 93,587,747 2.5% 2,339,694 15% 350,954 14 96,278,395 2.5% 2,406,960 15% 361,044 15 99,046,399 2.5% 2,476,160 15% 371,424 16 101,893,983 2.5% 2,547,350 15% 382,102 17 104,823,435 2.5% 2,620,586 15% 393,088 18 107,837,108 2.5% 2,695,928 15% 404,389 19 110,937,425 2.5% 2,773,436 15% 416,015 20 114,126,876 2.5% 2,853,172 15% 427,976 21 117,408,024 2.5% 2,935,201 15% 440,280 22 120,783,505 2.5% 3,019,588 15% 452,938 23 124,256,030 2.5% 3,106,401 15% 465,960 24 127,828,391 2.5% 3,195,710 15% 479,356 25 131,503,458 2.5% 3,287,586 15% 493,138 26 135,284,182 2.5% 3,382,105 15% 507,316 27 139,173,602 2.5% 3,479,340 15% 521,901 28 143,174,843 2.5% 3,579,371 15% 536,906 29 147,291,120 2.5% 3,682,278 15% 552,342 30 151,525,740 2.5% 3,788,143 15% 568,222 31 155,882,105 2.5% 3,897,053 15% 584,558 32 160,363,715 2.5% 4,009,093 15% 601,364 33 164,974,172 2.5% 4,124,354 15% 618,653 34 169,717,180 2.5% 4,242,929 15% 636,439 35 174,596,548 2.5% 4,364,914 15% 654,737 36 179,616,199 2.5% 4,490,405 15% 673,561 37 184,780,165 2.5% 4,619,504 15% 692,926 38 190,092,595 2.5% 4,752,315 15% 712,847 39 195,557,757 2.5% 4,888,944 15% 733,342
end of yr 39 201,180,042
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 20% of what the PoS gets. The extra 20% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 9 years off the reward period.
Year Coins PoS PoS rewards % of PoS reward MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 20% 2,000,000 2 62,000,000 10% 6,200,000 20% 1,240,000 3 69,440,000 5% 3,472,000 20% 694,400 4 73,606,400 2.5% 1,840,160 20% 368,032 5 75,814,592 2.5% 1,895,365 20% 379,073 6 78,089,030 2.5% 1,952,226 20% 390,445 7 80,431,701 2.5% 2,010,793 20% 402,159 8 82,844,652 2.5% 2,071,116 20% 414,223 9 85,329,991 2.5% 2,133,250 20% 426,650 10 87,889,891 2.5% 2,197,247 20% 439,449 11 90,526,588 2.5% 2,263,165 20% 452,633 12 93,242,385 2.5% 2,331,060 20% 466,212 13 96,039,657 2.5% 2,400,991 20% 480,198 14 98,920,847 2.5% 2,473,021 20% 494,604 15 101,888,472 2.5% 2,547,212 20% 509,442 16 104,945,126 2.5% 2,623,628 20% 524,726 17 108,093,480 2.5% 2,702,337 20% 540,467 18 111,336,284 2.5% 2,783,407 20% 556,681 19 114,676,373 2.5% 2,866,909 20% 573,382 20 118,116,664 2.5% 2,952,917 20% 590,583 21 121,660,164 2.5% 3,041,504 20% 608,301 22 125,309,969 2.5% 3,132,749 20% 626,550 23 129,069,268 2.5% 3,226,732 20% 645,346 24 132,941,346 2.5% 3,323,534 20% 664,707 25 136,929,586 2.5% 3,423,240 20% 684,648 26 141,037,474 2.5% 3,525,937 20% 705,187 27 145,268,598 2.5% 3,631,715 20% 726,343 28 149,626,656 2.5% 3,740,666 20% 748,133 29 154,115,456 2.5% 3,852,886 20% 770,577 30 158,738,919 2.5% 3,968,473 20% 793,695 31 163,501,087 2.5% 4,087,527 20% 817,505 32 168,406,120 2.5% 4,210,153 20% 842,031 33 173,458,303 2.5% 4,336,458 20% 867,292 34 178,662,052 2.5% 4,466,551 20% 893,310 35 184,021,914 2.5% 4,600,548 20% 920,110 36 189,542,571 2.5% 4,738,564 20% 947,713 37 195,228,848 2.5% 4,880,721 20% 976,144 end of yr 37 201,085,714
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.
Year/ Coins/ PoS/ PoS rewards/ % of PoS reward/ MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 10% 1,000,000 2 61,000,000 10% 6,100,000 10% 610,000 3 67,710,000 5% 3,385,500 10% 338,550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1,785,851 10% 178,585 5 73,398,486 2.5% 1,834,962 10% 183,496 6 75,416,945 2.5% 1,885,424 10% 188,542 7 77,490,911 2.5% 1,937,273 10% 193,727 8 79,621,911 2.5% 1,990,548 10% 199,055 9 81,811,513 2.5% 2,045,288 10% 204,529 10 84,061,330 2.5% 2,101,533 10% 210,153 11 86,373,017 2.5% 2,159,325 10% 215,933 12 88,748,274 2.5% 2,218,707 10% 221,871 13 91,188,852 2.5% 2,279,721 10% 227,972 14 93,696,545 2.5% 2,342,414 10% 234,241 15 96,273,200 2.5% 2,406,830 10% 240,683 16 98,920,713 2.5% 2,473,018 10% 247,302 17 101,641,033 2.5% 2,541,026 10% 254,103 18 104,436,161 2.5% 2,610,904 10% 261,090 19 107,308,156 2.5% 2,682,704 10% 268,270 20 110,259,130 2.5% 2,756,478 10% 275,648 21 113,291,256 2.5% 2,832,281 10% 283,228 22 116,406,766 2.5% 2,910,169 10% 291,017 23 119,607,952 2.5% 2,990,199 10% 299,020 24 122,897,171 2.5% 3,072,429 10% 307,243 25 126,276,843 2.5% 3,156,921 10% 315,692 26 129,749,456 2.5% 3,243,736 10% 324,374 27 133,317,566 2.5% 3,332,939 10% 333,294 28 136,983,799 2.5% 3,424,595 10% 342,459 29 140,750,854 2.5% 3,518,771 10% 351,877 30 144,621,502 2.5% 3,615,538 10% 361,554 31 148,598,593 2.5% 3,714,965 10% 371,496 32 152,685,055 2.5% 3,817,126 10% 381,713 33 156,883,894 2.5% 3,922,097 10% 392,210 34 161,198,201 2.5% 4,029,955 10% 402,996 35 165,631,151 2.5% 4,140,779 10% 414,078 36 170,186,008 2.5% 4,254,650 10% 425,465 37 174,866,123 2.5% 4,371,653 10% 437,165 38 179,674,941 2.5% 4,491,874 10% 449,187 39 184,616,002 2.5% 4,615,400 10% 461,540 40 189,692,942 2.5% 4,742,324 10% 474,232 41 194,909,498 2.5% 4,872,737 10% 487,274 end of yr 41 200,269,510
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This is just an example of a constant MN reward vs. the % system we had going. I'm going to mess with some more number combos here in a sec.
Year Coins PoS PoS rewards MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 400,000 2 60,400,000 10% 6,040,000 200,000 3 66,640,000 5% 3,332,000 100,000 4 70,072,000 2.5% 1,751,800 50,000 5 71,873,800 2.5% 1,796,845 50,000 6 73,720,645 2.5% 1,843,016 50,000 7 75,613,661 2.5% 1,890,342 50,000 8 77,554,003 2.5% 1,938,850 50,000 9 79,542,853 2.5% 1,988,571 50,000 10 81,581,424 2.5% 2,039,536 50,000 11 83,670,960 2.5% 2,091,774 50,000 12 85,812,734 2.5% 2,145,318 50,000 13 88,008,052 2.5% 2,200,201 50,000 14 90,258,253 2.5% 2,256,456 50,000 15 92,564,710 2.5% 2,314,118 50,000 16 94,928,827 2.5% 2,373,221 50,000 17 97,352,048 2.5% 2,433,801 50,000 18 99,835,849 2.5% 2,495,896 50,000 19 102,381,745 2.5% 2,559,544 50,000 20 104,991,289 2.5% 2,624,782 50,000 21 107,666,071 2.5% 2,691,652 50,000 22 110,407,723 2.5% 2,760,193 50,000 23 113,217,916 2.5% 2,830,448 50,000 24 116,098,364 2.5% 2,902,459 50,000 25 119,050,823 2.5% 2,976,271 50,000 26 122,077,094 2.5% 3,051,927 50,000 27 125,179,021 2.5% 3,129,476 50,000 28 128,358,497 2.5% 3,208,962 50,000 29 131,617,459 2.5% 3,290,436 50,000 30 134,957,896 2.5% 3,373,947 50,000 31 138,381,843 2.5% 3,459,546 50,000 32 141,891,389 2.5% 3,547,285 50,000 33 145,488,674 2.5% 3,637,217 50,000 34 149,175,891 2.5% 3,729,397 50,000 35 152,955,288 2.5% 3,823,882 50,000 36 156,829,170 2.5% 3,920,729 50,000 37 160,799,899 2.5% 4,019,997 50,000 38 164,869,897 2.5% 4,121,747 50,000 39 169,041,644 2.5% 4,226,041 50,000 40 173,317,685 2.5% 4,332,942 50,000 41 177,700,627 2.5% 4,442,516 50,000 42 182,193,143 2.5% 4,554,829 50,000 43 186,797,972 2.5% 4,669,949 50,000 44 191,517,921 2.5% 4,787,948 50,000 45 196,355,869 2.5% 4,908,897 50,000 46 201,314,766 2.5% 5,032,869 50,000
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This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.
We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future. And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup. If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there. This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes. Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct). Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them. Sounds great. I also think your plan to pay for all this by pealing coins off the last days/months/years of PoS is least disruptive to all parties. I agree with you both and reappropriating the coin from the back end, I will work on example numbers and post them here later. So that eveyone can tell which ones they like
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This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.
We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future. And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup. If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there. This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes. Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct). Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned. Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin. And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....
For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!! Guys there is no need to make more work out of this then needs to be, what you are trying to do with this auction will happen on its own, once we set the numbers.
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This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.
We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future. And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup. If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there. This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes. Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct). Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned. Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin. And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....
For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!!
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This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.
We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
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hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here
ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin and the devs caught in the middle
I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under. OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.
Ok how about this? Coins produced PoS PoS rewards Masternodes MN rewadrs 1 50,000,000 20% 10000000 2% 1000000 2 61,000,000 10% 6100000 1% 610000 3 67,710,000 5% 3385500 0.5% 338550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1785851.25 0.25% 178585.125 5 73,398,486.375 2.5% 1834962.159 0.25% 183496.21593 6 75,416,944.7503 2.5% 1885423.618 0.25% 188542.36187 7 77,490,910.7309 2.5% 1937272.76827 0.25% 193727.27682 8 79,621,910.7760 2.5% 1990547.76940 0.25% 199054.77694 9 81,811,513.3223 2.5% 2045287.83305 0.25% 204528.78330 10 84,061,329.9387 2.5% 2101533.24846 0.25% 210153.32484
See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount. I think a price like this can only be realistically and efficiently set by the free and constantly changing market, so it would be optimal (if possible) to have something like bidding every year, with the devs deciding who gets nodes based on performance expectations and price (lower bids). We just don't want to end up with some pay plan set in stone that pays nodes way beyond reasonable. Lets not for get the masternodes buying the req. amount of OC to start one will also raise the over all price. They should raise together in ROI, this helps offset the cost to buy the OC at start up. Lets not for get that if OC raises to $2 per coin it will cost $4,000 to start one, and that ROI needs to be equal to coins price.
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hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here
ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin and the devs caught in the middle
I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under. OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.
Ok how about this? Coins produced PoS PoS rewards Masternodes MN rewadrs 1 50,000,000 20% 10000000 2% 1000000 2 61,000,000 10% 6100000 1% 610000 3 67,710,000 5% 3385500 0.5% 338550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1785851.25 0.25% 178585.125 5 73,398,486.375 2.5% 1834962.159 0.25% 183496.21593 6 75,416,944.7503 2.5% 1885423.618 0.25% 188542.36187 7 77,490,910.7309 2.5% 1937272.76827 0.25% 193727.27682 8 79,621,910.7760 2.5% 1990547.76940 0.25% 199054.77694 9 81,811,513.3223 2.5% 2045287.83305 0.25% 204528.78330 10 84,061,329.9387 2.5% 2101533.24846 0.25% 210153.32484
See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount.
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on what % of trans will ppl will actually need/desire anon? If this is a fraction, less than 10% why are we paying an arm and leg for 100% anon when optional would take a fraction of the Mnodes/cost and please as many people?
i mean who cares if the nsa finds out i buy my shorts at overstock
It takes a certain amount of maternodes to make the feature secure. Need a good amount of nodes to be avalible to make it secure, and decentralized. To do this there is a balance, which is what we are all working on to create Halofire: great point, on my moblie now but will run these numbers soon, Cheers
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It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.htmlYes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen. So why are we trying to under-replicate? Do the entire 10% and add it to the coin cap. 220 million. or take 4-5 years off PoS. It still wont affect the price that much if we added 20 million over 46 years to the cap for a feature. Why are we now back to 220 Mio coins ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) OC can replicate or not replicate is not important, what is important is that we come out with something logical, clear and attractive facts and numbers. I don't know if you notice but all coins are constantly adapting or correcting things to stay competitive. Where is the problem with shortening things up ? Your right I forgot to post an example of reducing coin cap. Sorry for the spacing this forum messes it up and it takes for ever to fix Coins produced PoS PoS rewards Masternodes MN rewadrs 1 50000000 10% 5000000 2% 1000000 2 56000000 5% 2800000 1% 560000 3 59360000 2.5% 1484000 0.5% 296800 4 61140800 2% 1222816 0.25% 152852 5 62516468 2% 1250329.36 0.25% 156291.17 6 63923088.53 2% 1278461.7706 0.25% 159807.721325 7 65361358.021925 2% 1307227.1604385 0.25% 163403.395054813 8 66831988.5774183 2% 1336639.77154837 0.25% 167079.971443546 9 68335708.3204102 2% 1366714.1664082 0.25% 170839.270801026 10 69873261.7576195 2% 1397465.23515239 0.25% 174683.154394049 11 71445410.1471659 1.5% 1071681.15220749 0.25% 178613.525367915 12 72695704.8247413 1.5% 1090435.57237112 0.25% 181739.262061853 13 73967879.6591743 1.5% 1109518.19488761 0.25% 184919.699147936 14 75262317.5532098 1.5% 1128934.76329815 0.25% 188155.793883025 15 76579408.110391 1.5% 1148691.12165587 0.25% 191448.520275978 16 77919547.7523229 1.5% 1168793.21628484 0.25% 194798.869380807 17 79283139.8379885 1.5% 1189247.09756983 0.25% 198207.849594971 18 80670594.7851533 1.5% 1210058.9217773 0.25% 201676.486962883 19 82082330.1938935 1.5% 1231234.9529084 0.25% 205205.825484734 20 83518770.9722866 1.5% 1252781.5645843 0.25% 208796.927430716 21 84980349.4643016 1.5% 1274705.24196452 0.25% 212450.873660754 22 86467505.5799269 1.5% 1297012.5836989 0.25% 216168.763949817 23 87980686.9275756 1.5% 1319710.30391363 0.25% 219951.717318939 24 89520348.9488082 1.5% 1342805.23423212 0.25% 223800.87237202 25 91086955.0554123 1.5% 1366304.32583118 0.25% 227717.387638531 26 92680976.768882 1.5% 1390214.65153323 0.25% 231702.441922205 27 94302893.8623375 1.5% 1414543.40793506 0.25% 235757.234655844 28 95953194.5049284 1.5% 1439297.91757393 0.25% 239882.986262321 29 97632375.4087646 1.5% 1464485.63113147 0.25% 244080.938521912 30 99340941.978418 1.5% 1490114.12967627 0.25% 248352.354946045 31 101079408.46304 1.5% 1516191.1269456 0.25% 252698.521157601 32 102848298.111144 1.5% 1542724.47166715 0.25% 257120.745277859 33 104648143.328089 1.5% 1569722.14992133 0.25% 261620.358320221 34 106479485.83633 1.5% 1597192.28754495 0.25% 266198.714590825 35 108342876.838466 1.5% 1625143.15257699 0.25% 270857.192096165 36 110238877.183139 1.5% 1653583.15774709 0.25% 275597.192957848 37 112168057.533844 1.5% 1682520.86300766 0.25% 280420.14383461 38 114130998.540686 1.5% 1711964.97811029 0.25% 285327.496351716 39 116128291.015148 1.5% 1741924.36522722 0.25% 290320.727537871 40 118160536.107913 1.5% 1772408.0416187 0.25% 295401.340269783 41 120228345.489802 1.5% 1803425.18234703 0.25% 300570.863724505 42 122332341.535873 1.5% 1834985.1230381 0.25% 305830.853839683 43 124473157.512751 1.5% 1867097.36269127 0.25% 311182.893781878 44 126651437.769224 1.5% 1899771.56653836 0.25% 316628.594423061 45 128867837.930186 1.5% 1933017.56895279 0.25% 322169.594825464 46 131123025.093964 1.5% 1966845.37640946 0.25% 327807.56273491
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Coins produced PoS PoS rewards Masternodes MN rewadrs 1 50,000,000 20% 10000000 2% 1000000 2 61,000,000 10% 6100000 1% 610000 3 67,710,000 5% 3385500 0.5% 338550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1785851.25 0.25% 178585.125 5 73,398,486.375 2.5% 1834962.159 0.25% 183496.21593 6 75,416,944.7503 2.5% 1885423.618 0.25% 188542.36187 7 77,490,910.7309 2.5% 1937272.76827 0.25% 193727.27682 8 79,621,910.7760 2.5% 1990547.76940 0.25% 199054.77694 9 81,811,513.3223 2.5% 2045287.83305 0.25% 204528.78330 10 84,061,329.9387 2.5% 2101533.24846 0.25% 210153.32484
This is what the first 10 years looks like, the only small thing I see is year 4 masternode reward is pretty low, However this may be ok. The thing with masternodes is the coins price raises with it or the node count drops to adjust. either way this may be ok.
Then here is what the end looks like with the 10% 41 194909498.347209 2.5% 4872737.45868023 0.25% 487273.745868023 42 200269509.551757 2.5% 5006737.73879394 0.25% 500673.773879394 43 205776921.064431 2.5% 5144423.02661077 0.25% 514442.302661077 44 211435786.393703 2.5% 5285894.65984257 0.25% 528589.465984257 45 217250270.519529 2.5% 5431256.76298824 0.25% 543125.676298824 46 223224652.958817 2.5% 5580616.32397041 0.25% 558061.632397041 end of 46 years total 229,363,330.915184 or we end it after 41 which is the total that 42 starts with 200,269,509
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Coins produced PoS PoS rewards Masternodes MN rewadrs 1 50,000,000 20% 10000000 2% 1000000 2 61,000,000 10% 6100000 1% 610000 3 67,710,000 5% 3385500 0.5% 338550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1785851.25 0.25% 178585.125 5 73,398,486.375 2.5% 1834962.159 0.25% 183496.21593 6 75,416,944.7503 2.5% 1885423.618 0.25% 188542.36187 7 77,490,910.7309 2.5% 1937272.76827 0.25% 193727.27682 8 79,621,910.7760 2.5% 1990547.76940 0.25% 199054.77694 9 81,811,513.3223 2.5% 2045287.83305 0.25% 204528.78330 10 84,061,329.9387 2.5% 2101533.24846 0.25% 210153.32484
This is what the first 10 years looks like, the only small thing I see is year 4 masternode reward is pretty low, However this may be ok. The thing with masternodes is the coins price raises with it or the node count drops to adjust. either way this may be ok.
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It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.htmlYes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen. So why are we trying to under-replicate? Do the entire 10% and add it to the coin cap. 220 million. or take 4-5 years off PoS. It still wont affect the price that much if we added 20 million over 46 years to the cap for a feature. Are you saying do 10% of the reward and just add it to the cut the whole way down? yr1 PoS 20% MN 2% yr2 PoS 10% MN 1% yr3 PoS 5% MN 0.5% Flat PoS 2.5% MN 0.25% it's compounded interest so it adds about 30 million or we take 5 years off but its a good point
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It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.htmlYes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen.
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Also, just to throw it out there, it would take one year of shortening the 2.5% PoS to provide the Mnodes with 5+ million coins.
Any way how you choose the payout schedule, how would you be able to program the OC itself to divide 5 million coins over 45 or 46 years to work harmoniously with PoS? Won't PoS generate 20% of all coins, including the Mnodes payout? Thats where I can't answer since I don't know the mechanics.
that is the easy part after we get the number, to write the code. it's part of seeing what we end up doing how i work the numbers to run. but what we are thinking is paying out every masternode their % of every block reward. so (and sry this is off my mobile) lets say we go with 2.5% and we dont change the 20% PoS. This is rough math here but starting the MN now and taking out the month that has already been passed. MN get 1,062,500 still left paid out over the next about 11 months. so just say there is 330 days left in this year that means masternodes get 4.4718 coins per block to be divided between the total number of masternodes. once again sry for the rough numbers ok so that 1,062,500 looked high if that was only 1 year and we said 5 million was going to last 46 yrs. so i factored the 2.5% compounding interest over 46 years and we would need to add a little over 104 million to the coin cap to keep the PoS the same as it is now. Yes also I think reducing the PoS % rate after all the advertising amounts to breach of contract with the people that have already invested in OrangeCoin... bad idea, negative PR for the coin. I'm just going to repost my original numbers so we can re look at them yr1 PoS 18% MN 2% yr2 PoS 8.5% MN 1.5% yr3 PoS 3.5% MN 1.5% Flat PoS 1% MN 1.5% Your right it does change things a little vs adding almost 105 million to the coin cap How bout this? yr1 PoS 18% MN 2% yr2 PoS 8.5% MN 1.5% yr3 PoS 3.5% MN 1.5% Flat PoS 1.5% MN 1%
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