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41  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 09:29:23 PM
Sorry for my ignorance of MN, few questions.

What happens if someone doesn't want to be a MN any more, do they get the original 2000 back with any gains, or is that 2000 gone? What is the 'exit' procedure? We'd be able to sell the nodes themselves to each other like on ebay if necessary.

Also, what's the required amount of time (like contract?) needed for a MN?


Funny you ask because I was in the middle getting ready to post this info. I saw the word "contract" and thought it a good time to explain a few things more.

Ok the very rough steps on how you set one up.

- Get a machine with a static ip (Amazon or Digital ocean or other server platform)
- Setup firewall rules (close all ports except 9999)
- Make sure only port 9999 is Open
- Download the daemon
- Use getaccountaddress 0 to get an address on that daemon
- Send EXACTLY 2000 OC to that daemon
- Encrypt the wallet with a strong password, make a backup of the wallet, do not copy the wallet while the daemon is running
- In the conf file add "connect=xxxxxxxx" and "masternode=1"
- Restart the daemon
- masternode start `head -1` (type your password on the next line)

Once your set up the masternode start `head -1` is what locks  your 2000 OC and makes them available for Anon transactions. Also makes the wallet address made by getaccountaddress 0 eligible for reward payouts.

The 2000 OC will be locked and unable to be spent, However if you want to spent them and Stop the masternode its a simple as a Stop command

I'm working on you being able to spent the reward earnings out of the wallet address with out stopping the masternode, More to follow on that.

This was just a rough example and is not the final or may not be the exact way to set the Masternode up, however you guys need to see that you contral when your 2000 OC are and are not Masternodes.  
42  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 07:40:21 PM
ok lets look at the 15% payment plan (using say 10 nodes)

the first year
these 10nodes will get 1,500,000 OC
div by 12months = 125,000 OC
div by 10nodes = 1,250 OC (average)

which at say 500 sats/OC is currently worth about $41 per node (per month)

all seems reasonable so far

but when the nodes go online the whole world is expecting a substantial price rise (modestly say 10x)
so within a month we could be paying $410 per node for the same service

or Orange could be 20x in a month (we'd be paying $8,200 for our 10 MNs in month two), and where will OC be in 4 months? with 8 months left on this 15% contract being proposed.

bottom line is... the price/value of OC is too serious a variable to set a sane fixed payment plan that has any shelf life, i don't see how we divine the value of orange even a few weeks down the road. That is the source of confusion here.

I think this MN service has to be floated on the market from month-one (month-one seems to have some extra complications anyway)

For the moment at least, we simply make deals with 10 or so MN entities and we try to keep them happy on a month by month basis.

If we fail, they stop the service, but first they will just say they need more compensation.
so we either pay them, replace them, or both (in that order) if we don't like their price, ie if we think they've grabbed us by the curlies.

So suppose we just pay the orange equivalent (pealing OC off the end of PoS) of some USD dollar amount, either monthly (just for availability) or based on trans/amount handled.

so that the average MN payouts would be X dollars per month
(then we only have to decide what X is)

i know ppl want to avoid the USD but i don't see how we proceed at all here with out some kind of benchmark, and orange is currently way too young and restless to be that mark.

EDIT:
(alternately i guess we could offer a fixed btc reward paid in OC, but even this would have to be market flexible [say monthly] reacting to the changing value of btc)


well really there will be 100's and then 1000's of nodes, if I ever said 10 nodes it was defiantly a mistake!!


Quote
N=numbers of masternodes
M= required amount of coins for a masternode
H= Total coins in masternodes M*N

E= coin % rewarded to masternodes first year of the 10 million
D= % reward per PoS (E-10 million)/50 million/24.33333

B= coins per block (E/365/720) (E/days/blocks)
F= coins per block per masternode (B/N)

S= reward that M would make every 15 days from PoS stake to compare to masternode (M*D)
Z= masternode reward every 15 days (F*720*15)

Py= 1 year compounding PoS interest of M, (24 stakes/yr) Py=M(1+ APR/24)^24
My= 1 year of masternode rewards (24 staking days of a yr, or 360days)  Z*24


N=  1,000        200          1,000        1,000         500      1,000      2,000      1,000
M= 10,000      10,000       5,000        1,000        2,000    1,000      1,000      2,000
E=  2.5 mil      2.5 mil       2.5 mil      2.5 mil      1 mil      500k      500k       1 mill

H=  10 mil       2 mil          5 mil        1 mil         1 mil      1 mil       2 mil       2 mil

S=  61.64       61.64         30.82       6.16          14          7.8         7.8          14
Z=  102          513           102          102           82.19       20         10           41

Py=  1,589     1,589         794          158           386         205        205         386
My= 2,465     12,328        2,465       2,465        1,972       480        240         984

here is may original works, "N" is the number and it was worked out for 500 and 1,000 nodes. Once again once ppl see that more can be made (10% of the 20% or 2%) if they set up a master node. The more ppl that will set one up, meaning have to come and BUY the 2000 OC  at the market price. As we all know buying at the SELL price causes the price to raise.

And once again I'm very sorry to have to use another coin as an example but this example is purely for the numbers here.

http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/

Ok we see a masternode count box

280 / 351
active/total

This is why we have set the req OC to only 2000, so that it increases how many ppl can get involved.

Let use look at the Active number of masternodes, they have 280 at price right now ($ 11.41) and their req at 1,000 that is $3,194,800

Lets look at that 1 more time $3,194,800 invested in masternodes

Now I'm not saying we will get that kind of number however 10 masternodes is way to low of a number to do the math with.

1,000 MN for OC would cost $5,458 at market value right now.

Saying 10 is like thinking only 10 ppl will mine a coin at launch, but the real amount of miners is equal to ROI. So once again the number of MN will be set based on when profits are to low.
43  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 08:43:01 AM
Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.

Year/   Coins/               PoS/        PoS rewards/   % of PoS reward/   MN rewards
1   50,000,000      20%   10,000,000   10%   1,000,000
2   61,000,000      10%   6,100,000   10%   610,000
3   67,710,000       5%   3,385,500   10%   338,550
4   71,434,050   2.5%   1,785,851   10%   178,585
5   73,398,486   2.5%   1,834,962   10%   183,496
6   75,416,945   2.5%   1,885,424   10%   188,542
7   77,490,911   2.5%   1,937,273   10%   193,727
8   79,621,911   2.5%   1,990,548   10%   199,055
9   81,811,513   2.5%   2,045,288   10%   204,529
10   84,061,330   2.5%   2,101,533   10%   210,153
11   86,373,017   2.5%   2,159,325   10%   215,933
12   88,748,274   2.5%   2,218,707   10%   221,871
13   91,188,852   2.5%   2,279,721   10%   227,972
14   93,696,545   2.5%   2,342,414   10%   234,241
15   96,273,200   2.5%   2,406,830   10%   240,683
16   98,920,713   2.5%   2,473,018   10%   247,302
17   101,641,033   2.5%   2,541,026   10%   254,103
18   104,436,161   2.5%   2,610,904   10%   261,090
19   107,308,156   2.5%   2,682,704   10%   268,270
20   110,259,130   2.5%   2,756,478   10%   275,648
21   113,291,256   2.5%   2,832,281   10%   283,228
22   116,406,766   2.5%   2,910,169   10%   291,017
23   119,607,952   2.5%   2,990,199   10%   299,020
24   122,897,171   2.5%   3,072,429   10%   307,243
25   126,276,843   2.5%   3,156,921   10%   315,692
26   129,749,456   2.5%   3,243,736   10%   324,374
27   133,317,566   2.5%   3,332,939   10%   333,294
28   136,983,799   2.5%   3,424,595   10%   342,459
29   140,750,854   2.5%   3,518,771   10%   351,877
30   144,621,502   2.5%   3,615,538   10%   361,554
31   148,598,593   2.5%   3,714,965   10%   371,496
32   152,685,055   2.5%   3,817,126   10%   381,713
33   156,883,894   2.5%   3,922,097   10%   392,210
34   161,198,201   2.5%   4,029,955   10%   402,996
35   165,631,151   2.5%   4,140,779   10%   414,078
36   170,186,008   2.5%   4,254,650   10%   425,465
37   174,866,123   2.5%   4,371,653   10%   437,165
38   179,674,941   2.5%   4,491,874   10%   449,187
39   184,616,002   2.5%   4,615,400   10%   461,540
40   189,692,942   2.5%   4,742,324   10%   474,232
41   194,909,498   2.5%   4,872,737   10%   487,274
end of yr 41   200,269,510   


I do like the 10% it only takes 5 years off the reward period and still gives the masternodes an ok amount
44  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 08:10:13 AM

Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 15% of what the PoS gets. The extra 15% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 7 years off the reward period.



Year   Coins                   PoS       PoS rewards   % of PoS reward   MN rewards
1   50,000,000   20%   10,000,000   15%   1,500,000
2   61,500,000   10%   6,150,000   15%   922,500
3   68,572,500   5%   3,428,625   15%   514,294
4   72,515,419   2.5%   1,812,885   15%   271,933
5   74,600,237   2.5%   1,865,006   15%   279,751
6   76,744,994   2.5%   1,918,625   15%   287,794
7   78,951,412   2.5%   1,973,785   15%   296,068
8   81,221,266   2.5%   2,030,532   15%   304,580
9   83,556,377   2.5%   2,088,909   15%   313,336
10   85,958,623   2.5%   2,148,966   15%   322,345
11   88,429,933   2.5%   2,210,748   15%   331,612
12   90,972,294   2.5%   2,274,307   15%   341,146
13   93,587,747   2.5%   2,339,694   15%   350,954
14   96,278,395   2.5%   2,406,960   15%   361,044
15   99,046,399   2.5%   2,476,160   15%   371,424
16   101,893,983   2.5%   2,547,350   15%   382,102
17   104,823,435   2.5%   2,620,586   15%   393,088
18   107,837,108   2.5%   2,695,928   15%   404,389
19   110,937,425   2.5%   2,773,436   15%   416,015
20   114,126,876   2.5%   2,853,172   15%   427,976
21   117,408,024   2.5%   2,935,201   15%   440,280
22   120,783,505   2.5%   3,019,588   15%   452,938
23   124,256,030   2.5%   3,106,401   15%   465,960
24   127,828,391   2.5%   3,195,710   15%   479,356
25   131,503,458   2.5%   3,287,586   15%   493,138
26   135,284,182   2.5%   3,382,105   15%   507,316
27   139,173,602   2.5%   3,479,340   15%   521,901
28   143,174,843   2.5%   3,579,371   15%   536,906
29   147,291,120   2.5%   3,682,278   15%   552,342
30   151,525,740   2.5%   3,788,143   15%   568,222
31   155,882,105   2.5%   3,897,053   15%   584,558
32   160,363,715   2.5%   4,009,093   15%   601,364
33   164,974,172   2.5%   4,124,354   15%   618,653
34   169,717,180   2.5%   4,242,929   15%   636,439
35   174,596,548   2.5%   4,364,914   15%   654,737
36   179,616,199   2.5%   4,490,405   15%   673,561
37   184,780,165   2.5%   4,619,504   15%   692,926
38   190,092,595   2.5%   4,752,315   15%   712,847
39   195,557,757   2.5%   4,888,944   15%   733,342

end of yr 39   201,180,042   

45  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 07:57:30 AM
Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 20% of what the PoS gets. The extra 20% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 9 years off the reward period.



Year   Coins                   PoS       PoS rewards   % of PoS reward   MN rewards
1   50,000,000   20%   10,000,000   20%   2,000,000
2   62,000,000   10%   6,200,000   20%   1,240,000
3   69,440,000   5%   3,472,000   20%   694,400
4   73,606,400   2.5%   1,840,160   20%   368,032
5   75,814,592   2.5%   1,895,365   20%   379,073
6   78,089,030   2.5%   1,952,226   20%   390,445
7   80,431,701   2.5%   2,010,793   20%   402,159
8   82,844,652   2.5%   2,071,116   20%   414,223
9   85,329,991   2.5%   2,133,250   20%   426,650
10   87,889,891   2.5%   2,197,247   20%   439,449
11   90,526,588   2.5%   2,263,165   20%   452,633
12   93,242,385   2.5%   2,331,060   20%   466,212
13   96,039,657   2.5%   2,400,991   20%   480,198
14   98,920,847   2.5%   2,473,021   20%   494,604
15   101,888,472   2.5%   2,547,212   20%   509,442
16   104,945,126   2.5%   2,623,628   20%   524,726
17   108,093,480   2.5%   2,702,337   20%   540,467
18   111,336,284   2.5%   2,783,407   20%   556,681
19   114,676,373   2.5%   2,866,909   20%   573,382
20   118,116,664   2.5%   2,952,917   20%   590,583
21   121,660,164   2.5%   3,041,504   20%   608,301
22   125,309,969   2.5%   3,132,749   20%   626,550
23   129,069,268   2.5%   3,226,732   20%   645,346
24   132,941,346   2.5%   3,323,534   20%   664,707
25   136,929,586   2.5%   3,423,240   20%   684,648
26   141,037,474   2.5%   3,525,937   20%   705,187
27   145,268,598   2.5%   3,631,715   20%   726,343
28   149,626,656   2.5%   3,740,666   20%   748,133
29   154,115,456   2.5%   3,852,886   20%   770,577
30   158,738,919   2.5%   3,968,473   20%   793,695
31   163,501,087   2.5%   4,087,527   20%   817,505
32   168,406,120   2.5%   4,210,153   20%   842,031
33   173,458,303   2.5%   4,336,458   20%   867,292
34   178,662,052   2.5%   4,466,551   20%   893,310
35   184,021,914   2.5%   4,600,548   20%   920,110
36   189,542,571   2.5%   4,738,564   20%   947,713
37   195,228,848   2.5%   4,880,721   20%   976,144
end of yr 37   201,085,714   
46  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 07:47:31 AM
Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.

Year/   Coins/               PoS/        PoS rewards/   % of PoS reward/   MN rewards
1   50,000,000      20%   10,000,000   10%   1,000,000
2   61,000,000      10%   6,100,000   10%   610,000
3   67,710,000       5%   3,385,500   10%   338,550
4   71,434,050   2.5%   1,785,851   10%   178,585
5   73,398,486   2.5%   1,834,962   10%   183,496
6   75,416,945   2.5%   1,885,424   10%   188,542
7   77,490,911   2.5%   1,937,273   10%   193,727
8   79,621,911   2.5%   1,990,548   10%   199,055
9   81,811,513   2.5%   2,045,288   10%   204,529
10   84,061,330   2.5%   2,101,533   10%   210,153
11   86,373,017   2.5%   2,159,325   10%   215,933
12   88,748,274   2.5%   2,218,707   10%   221,871
13   91,188,852   2.5%   2,279,721   10%   227,972
14   93,696,545   2.5%   2,342,414   10%   234,241
15   96,273,200   2.5%   2,406,830   10%   240,683
16   98,920,713   2.5%   2,473,018   10%   247,302
17   101,641,033   2.5%   2,541,026   10%   254,103
18   104,436,161   2.5%   2,610,904   10%   261,090
19   107,308,156   2.5%   2,682,704   10%   268,270
20   110,259,130   2.5%   2,756,478   10%   275,648
21   113,291,256   2.5%   2,832,281   10%   283,228
22   116,406,766   2.5%   2,910,169   10%   291,017
23   119,607,952   2.5%   2,990,199   10%   299,020
24   122,897,171   2.5%   3,072,429   10%   307,243
25   126,276,843   2.5%   3,156,921   10%   315,692
26   129,749,456   2.5%   3,243,736   10%   324,374
27   133,317,566   2.5%   3,332,939   10%   333,294
28   136,983,799   2.5%   3,424,595   10%   342,459
29   140,750,854   2.5%   3,518,771   10%   351,877
30   144,621,502   2.5%   3,615,538   10%   361,554
31   148,598,593   2.5%   3,714,965   10%   371,496
32   152,685,055   2.5%   3,817,126   10%   381,713
33   156,883,894   2.5%   3,922,097   10%   392,210
34   161,198,201   2.5%   4,029,955   10%   402,996
35   165,631,151   2.5%   4,140,779   10%   414,078
36   170,186,008   2.5%   4,254,650   10%   425,465
37   174,866,123   2.5%   4,371,653   10%   437,165
38   179,674,941   2.5%   4,491,874   10%   449,187
39   184,616,002   2.5%   4,615,400   10%   461,540
40   189,692,942   2.5%   4,742,324   10%   474,232
41   194,909,498   2.5%   4,872,737   10%   487,274
end of yr 41   200,269,510   
47  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 10, 2014, 07:20:28 AM
This is just an example of a constant MN reward vs. the % system we had going. I'm going to mess with some more number combos here in a sec.

Year   Coins     PoS    PoS rewards   MN rewards   
1   50,000,000   20%   10,000,000   400,000           
2   60,400,000   10%   6,040,000   200,000      
3   66,640,000   5%     3,332,000   100,000      
4   70,072,000   2.5%   1,751,800   50,000      
5   71,873,800   2.5%   1,796,845   50,000      
6   73,720,645   2.5%   1,843,016   50,000      
7   75,613,661   2.5%   1,890,342   50,000      
8   77,554,003   2.5%   1,938,850   50,000      
9   79,542,853   2.5%   1,988,571   50,000      
10   81,581,424   2.5%   2,039,536   50,000      
11   83,670,960   2.5%   2,091,774   50,000      
12   85,812,734   2.5%   2,145,318   50,000      
13   88,008,052   2.5%   2,200,201   50,000      
14   90,258,253   2.5%   2,256,456   50,000      
15   92,564,710   2.5%   2,314,118   50,000      
16   94,928,827   2.5%   2,373,221   50,000      
17   97,352,048   2.5%   2,433,801   50,000      
18   99,835,849   2.5%   2,495,896   50,000      
19   102,381,745   2.5%   2,559,544   50,000      
20   104,991,289   2.5%   2,624,782   50,000      
21   107,666,071   2.5%   2,691,652   50,000      
22   110,407,723   2.5%   2,760,193   50,000      
23   113,217,916   2.5%   2,830,448   50,000      
24   116,098,364   2.5%   2,902,459   50,000      
25   119,050,823   2.5%   2,976,271   50,000      
26   122,077,094   2.5%   3,051,927   50,000      
27   125,179,021   2.5%   3,129,476   50,000      
28   128,358,497   2.5%   3,208,962   50,000      
29   131,617,459   2.5%   3,290,436   50,000      
30   134,957,896   2.5%   3,373,947   50,000      
31   138,381,843   2.5%   3,459,546   50,000      
32   141,891,389   2.5%   3,547,285   50,000      
33   145,488,674   2.5%   3,637,217   50,000      
34   149,175,891   2.5%   3,729,397   50,000      
35   152,955,288   2.5%   3,823,882   50,000      
36   156,829,170   2.5%   3,920,729   50,000      
37   160,799,899   2.5%   4,019,997   50,000      
38   164,869,897   2.5%   4,121,747   50,000      
39   169,041,644   2.5%   4,226,041   50,000      
40   173,317,685   2.5%   4,332,942   50,000      
41   177,700,627   2.5%   4,442,516   50,000      
42   182,193,143   2.5%   4,554,829   50,000      
43   186,797,972   2.5%   4,669,949   50,000      
44   191,517,921   2.5%   4,787,948   50,000      
45   196,355,869   2.5%   4,908,897   50,000      
46   201,314,766   2.5%   5,032,869   50,000      
48  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodesh on: June 09, 2014, 10:58:15 PM
This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them.
Sounds great.  I also think your plan to pay for all this by pealing coins off the last days/months/years of PoS is least disruptive to all parties.
I agree with you both and reappropriating the coin from the back end, I will work on example numbers and post them here later. So that eveyone can tell which ones they like
49  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodesh on: June 09, 2014, 10:18:03 PM
This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned.

Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin.

And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....
     

For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!!


Guys there is no need to make more work out of this then needs to be, what you are trying to do with this auction will happen on its own, once we set the numbers.
50  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodesh on: June 09, 2014, 09:37:49 PM
This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned.

Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin.

And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....
     

For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!!
51  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodesh on: June 09, 2014, 09:04:48 PM
This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.
52  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 06:42:14 PM
hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here

ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes
ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin
and the devs caught in the middle

I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under.  OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.

Ok how about this?


   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484


See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount.  
I think a price like this can only be realistically and efficiently set by the free and constantly changing market, so it would be optimal (if possible) to have something like bidding every year, with the devs deciding who gets nodes based on performance expectations and price (lower bids).  We just don't want to end up with some pay plan set in stone that pays nodes way beyond reasonable.


Lets not for get the masternodes buying the req. amount of OC to start one will also raise the over all price. They should raise together in ROI, this helps offset the cost to buy the OC at start up. Lets not for get that if OC raises to $2 per coin it will cost $4,000 to start one, and that ROI needs to be equal to coins price.
53  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 06:05:44 PM
hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here

ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes
ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin
and the devs caught in the middle

I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under.  OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.

Ok how about this?


   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484


See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount.  
54  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 04:18:59 PM
on what % of trans will ppl will actually need/desire anon?
If this is a fraction, less than 10% why are we paying an arm and leg for 100% anon
when optional would take a fraction of the Mnodes/cost and please as many people?

i mean who cares if the nsa finds out i buy my shorts at overstock

It takes a certain amount of maternodes to make the feature secure. Need a good amount of nodes to be avalible to make it secure, and decentralized. To do this there is a balance, which is what we are all working on to create


Halofire: great point, on my moblie now but will run these numbers soon, Cheers
55  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 02:32:54 PM
It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes

https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.html

Yes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen.  



So why are we trying to under-replicate? Do the entire 10% and add it to the coin cap. 220 million. or take 4-5 years off PoS. It still wont affect the price that much if we added 20 million over 46 years to the cap for a feature.

Why are we now back to 220 Mio coins Huh

OC can replicate or not replicate is not important, what is important is that we come out with something logical, clear and attractive facts and numbers. I don't know if you notice but all coins are constantly adapting or correcting things to stay competitive.

Where is the problem with shortening things up ?

Your right I forgot to post an example of reducing coin cap. Sorry for the spacing this forum messes it up and it takes for ever to fix

Coins produced                PoS    PoS rewards        Masternodes       MN rewadrs
1   50000000              10%       5000000                 2%                1000000
2   56000000                 5%       2800000                1%                 560000
3   59360000                   2.5%       1484000               0.5%        296800
4   61140800                   2%       1222816              0.25%         152852
5   62516468                   2%          1250329.36      0.25%        156291.17
6   63923088.53             2%       1278461.7706      0.25%        159807.721325
7   65361358.021925      2%         1307227.1604385   0.25%   163403.395054813
8   66831988.5774183     2%      1336639.77154837   0.25%   167079.971443546
9   68335708.3204102   2%      1366714.1664082   0.25%   170839.270801026
10   69873261.7576195   2%      1397465.23515239   0.25%   174683.154394049
11   71445410.1471659   1.5%   1071681.15220749   0.25%   178613.525367915
12   72695704.8247413   1.5%   1090435.57237112   0.25%   181739.262061853
13   73967879.6591743   1.5%   1109518.19488761   0.25%   184919.699147936
14   75262317.5532098   1.5%   1128934.76329815   0.25%   188155.793883025
15   76579408.110391   1.5%   1148691.12165587   0.25%   191448.520275978
16   77919547.7523229   1.5%   1168793.21628484   0.25%   194798.869380807
17   79283139.8379885   1.5%   1189247.09756983   0.25%   198207.849594971
18   80670594.7851533   1.5%   1210058.9217773   0.25%   201676.486962883
19   82082330.1938935   1.5%   1231234.9529084   0.25%   205205.825484734
20   83518770.9722866   1.5%   1252781.5645843   0.25%   208796.927430716
21   84980349.4643016   1.5%   1274705.24196452   0.25%   212450.873660754
22   86467505.5799269   1.5%   1297012.5836989   0.25%   216168.763949817
23   87980686.9275756   1.5%   1319710.30391363   0.25%   219951.717318939
24   89520348.9488082   1.5%   1342805.23423212   0.25%   223800.87237202
25   91086955.0554123   1.5%   1366304.32583118   0.25%   227717.387638531
26   92680976.768882   1.5%   1390214.65153323   0.25%   231702.441922205
27   94302893.8623375   1.5%   1414543.40793506   0.25%   235757.234655844
28   95953194.5049284   1.5%   1439297.91757393   0.25%   239882.986262321
29   97632375.4087646   1.5%   1464485.63113147   0.25%   244080.938521912
30   99340941.978418   1.5%   1490114.12967627   0.25%   248352.354946045
31   101079408.46304   1.5%   1516191.1269456   0.25%   252698.521157601
32   102848298.111144   1.5%   1542724.47166715   0.25%   257120.745277859
33   104648143.328089   1.5%   1569722.14992133   0.25%   261620.358320221
34   106479485.83633   1.5%   1597192.28754495   0.25%   266198.714590825
35   108342876.838466   1.5%   1625143.15257699   0.25%   270857.192096165
36   110238877.183139   1.5%   1653583.15774709   0.25%   275597.192957848
37   112168057.533844   1.5%   1682520.86300766   0.25%   280420.14383461
38   114130998.540686   1.5%   1711964.97811029   0.25%   285327.496351716
39   116128291.015148   1.5%   1741924.36522722   0.25%   290320.727537871
40   118160536.107913   1.5%   1772408.0416187   0.25%   295401.340269783
41   120228345.489802   1.5%   1803425.18234703   0.25%   300570.863724505
42   122332341.535873   1.5%   1834985.1230381   0.25%   305830.853839683
43   124473157.512751   1.5%   1867097.36269127   0.25%   311182.893781878
44   126651437.769224   1.5%   1899771.56653836   0.25%   316628.594423061
45   128867837.930186   1.5%   1933017.56895279   0.25%   322169.594825464
46   131123025.093964   1.5%   1966845.37640946   0.25%   327807.56273491
56  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 04:54:10 AM
   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484


This is what the first 10 years looks like, the only small thing I see is year 4 masternode reward is pretty low, However this may be ok. The thing with masternodes is the coins price raises with it or the node count drops to adjust. either way this may be ok.


Then here is what the end looks like with the 10%

41   194909498.347209   2.5%   4872737.45868023   0.25%   487273.745868023
42   200269509.551757   2.5%   5006737.73879394   0.25%   500673.773879394
43   205776921.064431   2.5%   5144423.02661077   0.25%   514442.302661077
44   211435786.393703   2.5%   5285894.65984257   0.25%   528589.465984257
45   217250270.519529   2.5%   5431256.76298824   0.25%   543125.676298824
46   223224652.958817   2.5%   5580616.32397041   0.25%   558061.632397041

end of 46 years total
229,363,330.915184

or we end it after 41 which is the total that 42 starts with 200,269,509
57  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 04:44:57 AM
   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484


This is what the first 10 years looks like, the only small thing I see is year 4 masternode reward is pretty low, However this may be ok. The thing with masternodes is the coins price raises with it or the node count drops to adjust. either way this may be ok.
58  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 04:16:09 AM
It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes

https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.html

Yes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen. 



So why are we trying to under-replicate? Do the entire 10% and add it to the coin cap. 220 million. or take 4-5 years off PoS. It still wont affect the price that much if we added 20 million over 46 years to the cap for a feature.


Are you saying do 10% of the reward and just add it to the cut the whole way down?

yr1   PoS 20%   MN 2%
yr2   PoS 10%   MN 1%
yr3   PoS 5%     MN 0.5%
Flat   PoS 2.5%  MN 0.25%

it's compounded interest so it adds about 30 million or we take 5 years off but its a good point 
59  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 03:12:59 AM
It's important to look at the only other coin using masternodes with Anon and how the masternodes effected their price when they went live. And they took 10% of the reward and shifted it to the masternodes

https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_90.html

Yes I know this is not us and its a different coin, I only bring it up to show what can happen when 10% of rewards where shifted to Masternode payouts. Because its the only other real example around, sometimes it good to look at others who have done it. As well as for us to guess what will happen when we do it and what could happen. 

60  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes on: June 09, 2014, 12:58:54 AM
Also, just to throw it out there, it would take one year of shortening the 2.5% PoS to provide the Mnodes with 5+ million coins.

Any way how you choose the payout schedule, how would you be able to program the OC itself to divide 5 million coins over 45 or 46 years to work harmoniously with PoS? Won't PoS generate 20% of all coins, including the Mnodes payout?
Thats where I can't answer since I don't know the mechanics.


that is the easy part after we get the number, to write the code. it's part of seeing what we end up doing how i work the numbers to run. but what we are thinking is paying out every masternode their % of every block reward. so (and sry this is off my mobile) lets say we go with 2.5% and we dont change the 20% PoS. This is rough math here but starting the MN now and taking out the month that has already been passed. MN get 1,062,500 still left paid out over the next about 11 months. so just say there is 330 days left in this year that means masternodes get 4.4718 coins per block to be divided between the total number of masternodes. once again sry for the rough numbers
ok so that 1,062,500 looked high if that was only 1 year and we said 5 million was going to last 46 yrs. so i factored the 2.5% compounding interest over 46 years and we would need to add a little over 104 million to the coin cap to keep the PoS the same as it is now.
Yes also I think reducing the PoS % rate after all the advertising amounts to breach of contract with the people that have already invested in OrangeCoin... bad idea, negative PR for the coin.


I'm just going to repost my original numbers so we can re look at them

yr1  PoS 18%  MN 2%
yr2  PoS 8.5% MN 1.5%
yr3  PoS 3.5% MN 1.5%
Flat PoS 1%    MN 1.5%

Your right it does change things a little vs adding almost 105 million to the coin cap


How bout this?

yr1  PoS 18%  MN 2%
yr2  PoS 8.5% MN 1.5%
yr3  PoS 3.5% MN 1.5%
Flat PoS 1.5%  MN 1%

 
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