Jim_Rambler
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Activity: 70
Merit: 10
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June 10, 2014, 08:10:13 AM |
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 15% of what the PoS gets. The extra 15% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 7 years off the reward period.
Year Coins PoS PoS rewards % of PoS reward MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 15% 1,500,000 2 61,500,000 10% 6,150,000 15% 922,500 3 68,572,500 5% 3,428,625 15% 514,294 4 72,515,419 2.5% 1,812,885 15% 271,933 5 74,600,237 2.5% 1,865,006 15% 279,751 6 76,744,994 2.5% 1,918,625 15% 287,794 7 78,951,412 2.5% 1,973,785 15% 296,068 8 81,221,266 2.5% 2,030,532 15% 304,580 9 83,556,377 2.5% 2,088,909 15% 313,336 10 85,958,623 2.5% 2,148,966 15% 322,345 11 88,429,933 2.5% 2,210,748 15% 331,612 12 90,972,294 2.5% 2,274,307 15% 341,146 13 93,587,747 2.5% 2,339,694 15% 350,954 14 96,278,395 2.5% 2,406,960 15% 361,044 15 99,046,399 2.5% 2,476,160 15% 371,424 16 101,893,983 2.5% 2,547,350 15% 382,102 17 104,823,435 2.5% 2,620,586 15% 393,088 18 107,837,108 2.5% 2,695,928 15% 404,389 19 110,937,425 2.5% 2,773,436 15% 416,015 20 114,126,876 2.5% 2,853,172 15% 427,976 21 117,408,024 2.5% 2,935,201 15% 440,280 22 120,783,505 2.5% 3,019,588 15% 452,938 23 124,256,030 2.5% 3,106,401 15% 465,960 24 127,828,391 2.5% 3,195,710 15% 479,356 25 131,503,458 2.5% 3,287,586 15% 493,138 26 135,284,182 2.5% 3,382,105 15% 507,316 27 139,173,602 2.5% 3,479,340 15% 521,901 28 143,174,843 2.5% 3,579,371 15% 536,906 29 147,291,120 2.5% 3,682,278 15% 552,342 30 151,525,740 2.5% 3,788,143 15% 568,222 31 155,882,105 2.5% 3,897,053 15% 584,558 32 160,363,715 2.5% 4,009,093 15% 601,364 33 164,974,172 2.5% 4,124,354 15% 618,653 34 169,717,180 2.5% 4,242,929 15% 636,439 35 174,596,548 2.5% 4,364,914 15% 654,737 36 179,616,199 2.5% 4,490,405 15% 673,561 37 184,780,165 2.5% 4,619,504 15% 692,926 38 190,092,595 2.5% 4,752,315 15% 712,847 39 195,557,757 2.5% 4,888,944 15% 733,342
end of yr 39 201,180,042
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Jim_Rambler
Member
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Activity: 70
Merit: 10
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June 10, 2014, 08:43:01 AM |
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.
Year/ Coins/ PoS/ PoS rewards/ % of PoS reward/ MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 10% 1,000,000 2 61,000,000 10% 6,100,000 10% 610,000 3 67,710,000 5% 3,385,500 10% 338,550 4 71,434,050 2.5% 1,785,851 10% 178,585 5 73,398,486 2.5% 1,834,962 10% 183,496 6 75,416,945 2.5% 1,885,424 10% 188,542 7 77,490,911 2.5% 1,937,273 10% 193,727 8 79,621,911 2.5% 1,990,548 10% 199,055 9 81,811,513 2.5% 2,045,288 10% 204,529 10 84,061,330 2.5% 2,101,533 10% 210,153 11 86,373,017 2.5% 2,159,325 10% 215,933 12 88,748,274 2.5% 2,218,707 10% 221,871 13 91,188,852 2.5% 2,279,721 10% 227,972 14 93,696,545 2.5% 2,342,414 10% 234,241 15 96,273,200 2.5% 2,406,830 10% 240,683 16 98,920,713 2.5% 2,473,018 10% 247,302 17 101,641,033 2.5% 2,541,026 10% 254,103 18 104,436,161 2.5% 2,610,904 10% 261,090 19 107,308,156 2.5% 2,682,704 10% 268,270 20 110,259,130 2.5% 2,756,478 10% 275,648 21 113,291,256 2.5% 2,832,281 10% 283,228 22 116,406,766 2.5% 2,910,169 10% 291,017 23 119,607,952 2.5% 2,990,199 10% 299,020 24 122,897,171 2.5% 3,072,429 10% 307,243 25 126,276,843 2.5% 3,156,921 10% 315,692 26 129,749,456 2.5% 3,243,736 10% 324,374 27 133,317,566 2.5% 3,332,939 10% 333,294 28 136,983,799 2.5% 3,424,595 10% 342,459 29 140,750,854 2.5% 3,518,771 10% 351,877 30 144,621,502 2.5% 3,615,538 10% 361,554 31 148,598,593 2.5% 3,714,965 10% 371,496 32 152,685,055 2.5% 3,817,126 10% 381,713 33 156,883,894 2.5% 3,922,097 10% 392,210 34 161,198,201 2.5% 4,029,955 10% 402,996 35 165,631,151 2.5% 4,140,779 10% 414,078 36 170,186,008 2.5% 4,254,650 10% 425,465 37 174,866,123 2.5% 4,371,653 10% 437,165 38 179,674,941 2.5% 4,491,874 10% 449,187 39 184,616,002 2.5% 4,615,400 10% 461,540 40 189,692,942 2.5% 4,742,324 10% 474,232 41 194,909,498 2.5% 4,872,737 10% 487,274 end of yr 41 200,269,510
I do like the 10% it only takes 5 years off the reward period and still gives the masternodes an ok amount
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daxiake
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June 10, 2014, 09:22:31 AM |
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vote as the 26.wish oc to da moon
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ChrisLandin
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June 10, 2014, 11:48:20 AM |
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Good afternoon Orangers. Done my bit voting today on polo and mintpal.
Soon the value of this exceptional coin will be realized
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MrMinerMan
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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June 10, 2014, 02:07:22 PM |
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WOW almost 100 pages. All options are up, speak now or forever hold your peace.
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cryptoba
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June 10, 2014, 02:28:42 PM |
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Hi Orangecoin, Halofire and Jim Rambler,
It would be great to make, as soon as possible, a new official announcement with new structure, new specifications, new release and all the next future steps and goals for OC ?
It was great and important to discuss about all those ideas, but it is also very technical. And, you all seem to head in the right direction, I am sure you will make the best decision.
But, now, it would be great if you all together took a decision and made a new fresh announcement with all new specifications and future steps.
When could this happen ?
Thanks
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Halofire
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June 10, 2014, 02:33:34 PM |
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Goodmorning!
JimRambler gets a big thank you, first off. I know how tedious it was for you to provide these models.
Looking good!
I'd go for any of those models but maybe 20% is a little much, ends the minting 10 years earlier which is the limit before the 'oc:btc' catch up' kicks in. Doesn't allow for future 'play' room for new, undiscovered features. Maybe 15% as the compromise.
What happens if/when the PoS doesn't mint all of its coin when the planned schedule ends? Where would the coins go? Would that affect the amount the MN get paid along the way if MN based on a percent or can you designate whole integers for MN? I know this kinda goes back to what I was asking before, a bunch of posts ago, but its kinda different.
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OC Development - oZwWbQwz6LAkDLa2pHsEH8WSD2Y3LsTgFt SMC Development - SgpYdoVz946nLBF2hF3PYCVQYnuYDeQTGu Friendly reminder: Back up your wallet.dat files!!
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Halofire
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June 10, 2014, 02:34:31 PM |
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Hi Orangecoin, Halofire and Jim Rambler,
It would be great to make, as soon as possible, a new official announcement with new structure, new specifications, new release and all the next future steps and goals for OC ?
It was great and important to discuss about all those ideas, but it is also very technical. And, you all seem to head in the right direction, I am sure you will make the best decision.
But, now, it would be great if you all together took a decision and made a new fresh announcement with all new specifications and future steps.
When could this happen ?
Thanks
We're getting there, I feel the end of this discussion is in sight.
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OC Development - oZwWbQwz6LAkDLa2pHsEH8WSD2Y3LsTgFt SMC Development - SgpYdoVz946nLBF2hF3PYCVQYnuYDeQTGu Friendly reminder: Back up your wallet.dat files!!
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cryptoba
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June 10, 2014, 03:04:20 PM |
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Hi Orangecoin, Halofire and Jim Rambler,
It would be great to make, as soon as possible, a new official announcement with new structure, new specifications, new release and all the next future steps and goals for OC ?
It was great and important to discuss about all those ideas, but it is also very technical. And, you all seem to head in the right direction, I am sure you will make the best decision.
But, now, it would be great if you all together took a decision and made a new fresh announcement with all new specifications and future steps.
When could this happen ?
Thanks
We're getting there, I feel the end of this discussion is in sight. You are all doing a great job ! Hope you understand I am loving all this energy ! I just have also the feeling that others are watching and might want to see a few clear announcement sooon
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Specialkey
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June 10, 2014, 03:46:01 PM |
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99 sides on this beautiful OCthread
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Halofire
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June 10, 2014, 04:38:18 PM Last edit: June 10, 2014, 06:23:40 PM by Halofire |
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Welcome To ⓄⓇⒶⓃⒼⒺⒸⓄⒾⓃ
Don't forget to vote @ Cryptsy, Poloniex, and Mintpal! https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes https://www.mintpal.com/voting https://poloniex.com/voting
Come on over to orangecoins.info/forum/ for the latest updates on everything Orange! Stop by and check out the giveaways, Art Contest with BIGGER OC prizes, bounties, paid referral program and more...!
ONLY 5 DAYS LEFT TO ENTER THE ART CONTEST! Don't miss your chance at 30k in prizes!
We're on IRC! #orangecoindev
Do you have something to add to Orangecoin? A service or merchandise, perhaps? Inquire with Orangecoin or myself!
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OC Development - oZwWbQwz6LAkDLa2pHsEH8WSD2Y3LsTgFt SMC Development - SgpYdoVz946nLBF2hF3PYCVQYnuYDeQTGu Friendly reminder: Back up your wallet.dat files!!
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Rainer4256
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
For the benefit of medical research
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June 10, 2014, 05:14:14 PM |
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99 sides on this beautiful OCthread You mean "pages"?
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btcMagnet
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
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June 10, 2014, 06:33:52 PM Last edit: June 10, 2014, 07:01:23 PM by btcMagnet |
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Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 15% of what the PoS gets. The extra 15% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 7 years off the reward period.
Year Coins PoS PoS rewards % of PoS reward MN rewards 1 50,000,000 20% 10,000,000 15% 1,500,000 2 61,500,000 10% 6,150,000 15% 922,500 3 68,572,500 5% 3,428,625 15% 514,294 4 72,515,419 2.5% 1,812,885 15% 271,933 5 74,600,237 2.5% 1,865,006 15% 279,751 6 76,744,994 2.5% 1,918,625 15% 287,794 7 78,951,412 2.5% 1,973,785 15% 296,068 8 81,221,266 2.5% 2,030,532 15% 304,580 9 83,556,377 2.5% 2,088,909 15% 313,336 10 85,958,623 2.5% 2,148,966 15% 322,345 11 88,429,933 2.5% 2,210,748 15% 331,612 12 90,972,294 2.5% 2,274,307 15% 341,146 13 93,587,747 2.5% 2,339,694 15% 350,954 14 96,278,395 2.5% 2,406,960 15% 361,044 15 99,046,399 2.5% 2,476,160 15% 371,424 16 101,893,983 2.5% 2,547,350 15% 382,102 17 104,823,435 2.5% 2,620,586 15% 393,088 18 107,837,108 2.5% 2,695,928 15% 404,389 19 110,937,425 2.5% 2,773,436 15% 416,015 20 114,126,876 2.5% 2,853,172 15% 427,976 21 117,408,024 2.5% 2,935,201 15% 440,280 22 120,783,505 2.5% 3,019,588 15% 452,938 23 124,256,030 2.5% 3,106,401 15% 465,960 24 127,828,391 2.5% 3,195,710 15% 479,356 25 131,503,458 2.5% 3,287,586 15% 493,138 26 135,284,182 2.5% 3,382,105 15% 507,316 27 139,173,602 2.5% 3,479,340 15% 521,901 28 143,174,843 2.5% 3,579,371 15% 536,906 29 147,291,120 2.5% 3,682,278 15% 552,342 30 151,525,740 2.5% 3,788,143 15% 568,222 31 155,882,105 2.5% 3,897,053 15% 584,558 32 160,363,715 2.5% 4,009,093 15% 601,364 33 164,974,172 2.5% 4,124,354 15% 618,653 34 169,717,180 2.5% 4,242,929 15% 636,439 35 174,596,548 2.5% 4,364,914 15% 654,737 36 179,616,199 2.5% 4,490,405 15% 673,561 37 184,780,165 2.5% 4,619,504 15% 692,926 38 190,092,595 2.5% 4,752,315 15% 712,847 39 195,557,757 2.5% 4,888,944 15% 733,342
end of yr 39 201,180,042
ok lets look at the 15% payment plan (using say 10 nodes) the first year these 10nodes will get 1,500,000 OC div by 12months = 125,000 OC div by 10nodes = 1,250 OC (average) which at say 500 sats/OC is currently worth about $41 per node (per month) all seems reasonable so far but when the nodes go online the whole world is expecting a substantial price rise (modestly say 10x) so within a month we could be paying $410 per node for the same service or Orange could be 20x in a month ( we'd be paying $8,200 for our 10 MNs in month two), and where will OC be in 4 months? with 8 months left on this 15% contract being proposed. bottom line is... the price/value of OC is too serious a variable to set a sane fixed payment plan that has any shelf life, i don't see how we divine the value of orange even a few weeks down the road. That is the source of confusion here. I think this MN service has to be floated on the market from month-one (month-one seems to have some extra complications anyway) For the moment at least, we simply make deals with 10 or so MN entities and we try to keep them happy on a month by month basis. If we fail, they stop the service, but first they will just say they need more compensation. so we either pay them, replace them, or both (in that order) if we don't like their price, ie if we think they've grabbed us by the curlies. So suppose we just pay the orange equivalent (pealing OC off the end of PoS) of some USD dollar amount, either monthly (just for availability) or based on trans/amount handled.
so that the average MN payouts would be X dollars per month (then we only have to decide what X is) i know ppl want to avoid the USD but i don't see how we proceed at all here with out some kind of benchmark, and orange is currently way too young and restless to be that mark. EDIT: (alternately i guess we could offer a fixed btc reward paid in OC, but even this would have to be market flexible [say monthly] reacting to the changing value of btc)
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Specialkey
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June 10, 2014, 07:05:58 PM |
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99 sides on this beautiful OCthread You mean "pages"? +1
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Halofire
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June 10, 2014, 07:15:26 PM |
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I understand completely what you are saying. Paying out compared to other crypto's worth, but in actual OC, would definitely work since they tend to grow and shrink together.
Fiat value is irrelevant. We can't base our crypto's off of fiat much longer, because we would be hurting crypto every time we'd depreciate OC to fit in with fiat. Let the price go up to $4000 for a MN buy-in. The payout would be the same percent as if it were $100 buy-in.
Let me poke your brain for a minute btcmagnet. Think of crypto as the new USD like this: How many USD can I sell for one OC? Not like: How many OC can I buy with 1 dollar?
Two similar sentences ending at same result, the exchange of fiat for OC. But with the first way I said it, the buying power is in the OC. And that's what will wake people up and smell the crypto's. ''Who has ever sold fiat before?'' What a silly question right? Well, the answer is.... every single person who has held fiat. Everytime you buy or pay for something, you just sold your fiat for a good or service. This is how he governments have made us think since the dawn of currency. "buying power'' instead of ''selling power''.
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OC Development - oZwWbQwz6LAkDLa2pHsEH8WSD2Y3LsTgFt SMC Development - SgpYdoVz946nLBF2hF3PYCVQYnuYDeQTGu Friendly reminder: Back up your wallet.dat files!!
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Jim_Rambler
Member
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Activity: 70
Merit: 10
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June 10, 2014, 07:40:21 PM |
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ok lets look at the 15% payment plan (using say 10 nodes)
the first year these 10nodes will get 1,500,000 OC div by 12months = 125,000 OC div by 10nodes = 1,250 OC (average)
which at say 500 sats/OC is currently worth about $41 per node (per month)
all seems reasonable so far
but when the nodes go online the whole world is expecting a substantial price rise (modestly say 10x) so within a month we could be paying $410 per node for the same service
or Orange could be 20x in a month (we'd be paying $8,200 for our 10 MNs in month two), and where will OC be in 4 months? with 8 months left on this 15% contract being proposed.
bottom line is... the price/value of OC is too serious a variable to set a sane fixed payment plan that has any shelf life, i don't see how we divine the value of orange even a few weeks down the road. That is the source of confusion here.
I think this MN service has to be floated on the market from month-one (month-one seems to have some extra complications anyway)
For the moment at least, we simply make deals with 10 or so MN entities and we try to keep them happy on a month by month basis.
If we fail, they stop the service, but first they will just say they need more compensation. so we either pay them, replace them, or both (in that order) if we don't like their price, ie if we think they've grabbed us by the curlies.
So suppose we just pay the orange equivalent (pealing OC off the end of PoS) of some USD dollar amount, either monthly (just for availability) or based on trans/amount handled.
so that the average MN payouts would be X dollars per month (then we only have to decide what X is)
i know ppl want to avoid the USD but i don't see how we proceed at all here with out some kind of benchmark, and orange is currently way too young and restless to be that mark.
EDIT: (alternately i guess we could offer a fixed btc reward paid in OC, but even this would have to be market flexible [say monthly] reacting to the changing value of btc)
well really there will be 100's and then 1000's of nodes, if I ever said 10 nodes it was defiantly a mistake!! N=numbers of masternodes M= required amount of coins for a masternode H= Total coins in masternodes M*N
E= coin % rewarded to masternodes first year of the 10 million D= % reward per PoS (E-10 million)/50 million/24.33333
B= coins per block (E/365/720) (E/days/blocks) F= coins per block per masternode (B/N)
S= reward that M would make every 15 days from PoS stake to compare to masternode (M*D) Z= masternode reward every 15 days (F*720*15)
Py= 1 year compounding PoS interest of M, (24 stakes/yr) Py=M(1+ APR/24)^24 My= 1 year of masternode rewards (24 staking days of a yr, or 360days) Z*24
N= 1,000 200 1,000 1,000 500 1,000 2,000 1,000 M= 10,000 10,000 5,000 1,000 2,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 E= 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 2.5 mil 1 mil 500k 500k 1 mill
H= 10 mil 2 mil 5 mil 1 mil 1 mil 1 mil 2 mil 2 mil
S= 61.64 61.64 30.82 6.16 14 7.8 7.8 14 Z= 102 513 102 102 82.19 20 10 41
Py= 1,589 1,589 794 158 386 205 205 386 My= 2,465 12,328 2,465 2,465 1,972 480 240 984 here is may original works, "N" is the number and it was worked out for 500 and 1,000 nodes. Once again once ppl see that more can be made (10% of the 20% or 2%) if they set up a master node. The more ppl that will set one up, meaning have to come and BUY the 2000 OC at the market price. As we all know buying at the SELL price causes the price to raise. And once again I'm very sorry to have to use another coin as an example but this example is purely for the numbers here. http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/ Ok we see a masternode count box 280 / 351 active/total This is why we have set the req OC to only 2000, so that it increases how many ppl can get involved. Let use look at the Active number of masternodes, they have 280 at price right now ($ 11.41) and their req at 1,000 that is $3,194,800 Lets look at that 1 more time $3,194,800 invested in masternodes Now I'm not saying we will get that kind of number however 10 masternodes is way to low of a number to do the math with. 1,000 MN for OC would cost $5,458 at market value right now. Saying 10 is like thinking only 10 ppl will mine a coin at launch, but the real amount of miners is equal to ROI. So once again the number of MN will be set based on when profits are to low.
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Specialkey
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June 10, 2014, 08:56:42 PM |
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Welcome To ⓄⓇⒶⓃⒼⒺⒸⓄⒾⓃ
Don't forget to vote @ Cryptsy, Poloniex, and Mintpal! https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes https://www.mintpal.com/voting https://poloniex.com/voting
Come on over to orangecoins.info/forum/ for the latest updates on everything Orange! Stop by and check out the giveaways, Art Contest with BIGGER OC prizes, bounties, paid referral program and more...!
ONLY 5 DAYS LEFT TO ENTER THE ART CONTEST! Don't miss your chance at 30k in prizes!
We're on IRC! #orangecoindev
Do you have something to add to Orangecoin? A service or merchandise, perhaps? Inquire with Orangecoin or myself! Voting time
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Halofire
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June 10, 2014, 08:58:20 PM |
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Sorry for my ignorance of MN, few questions.
What happens if someone doesn't want to be a MN any more, do they get the original 2000 back with any gains, or is that 2000 gone? What is the 'exit' procedure? We'd be able to sell the nodes themselves to each other like on ebay if necessary.
Also, what's the required amount of time (like contract?) needed for a MN?
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OC Development - oZwWbQwz6LAkDLa2pHsEH8WSD2Y3LsTgFt SMC Development - SgpYdoVz946nLBF2hF3PYCVQYnuYDeQTGu Friendly reminder: Back up your wallet.dat files!!
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