[ANN][OC] Orangecoin ★★ POS ★★ Anon Transactions ★★ Masternodes

[Halofire]

hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here

ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes
ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin
and the devs caught in the middle

I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under.  OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.

Ok how about this?

   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484

See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount.  

I think a price like this can only be realistically and efficiently set by the free and constantly changing market, so it would be optimal (if possible) to have something like bidding every year, with the devs deciding who gets nodes based on performance expectations and price (lower bids).  We just don't want to end up with some pay plan set in stone that pays nodes way beyond reasonable.

Lets not for get the masternodes buying the req. amount of OC to start one will also raise the over all price. They should raise together in ROI, this helps offset the cost to buy the OC at start up. Lets not for get that if OC raises to $2 per coin it will cost $4,000 to start one, and that ROI needs to be equal to coins price.

Does that mean the maximum price is capped because the cost of future Masternodes is dictating the price? If the price explodes regardless, then we'd be paying premium for new MNs. But MN would be making that much more if the price hit that.  The 'buy-in amount' schedule should decrease and increase depending on the price with 2000 OC for 10000 satoshi being the baseline, if that's the concern.

And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....

[btcMagnet]

hmmm we have 3 kinds of oranges here

ppl trying to make the sweetest deal they can for their planned Mnodes
ppl trying to preserve the equity that was promised when they bought into the coin
and the devs caught in the middle

I'm more worried about overpaying the Mnodes than under.  OC pointed out yesterday that the price of orange is going up, 10x and more. so maybe we should have some way to adjust the Mnodes rewards, keep them fat and happy but not obscene.

Ok how about this?

   Coins produced            PoS          PoS rewards      Masternodes    MN rewadrs
1   50,000,000             20%          10000000                      2%            1000000
2   61,000,000             10%             6100000                      1%             610000
3   67,710,000             5%             3385500                   0.5%              338550
4   71,434,050            2.5%           1785851.25             0.25%         178585.125
5   73,398,486.375      2.5%           1834962.159           0.25%          183496.21593
6   75,416,944.7503    2.5%            1885423.618           0.25%        188542.36187
7   77,490,910.7309    2.5%            1937272.76827       0.25%        193727.27682
8   79,621,910.7760    2.5%           1990547.76940        0.25%        199054.77694
9   81,811,513.3223    2.5%           2045287.83305       0.25%        204528.78330
10   84,061,329.9387    2.5%         2101533.24846       0.25%        210153.32484

See how the last column goes up exponentially, what if we deduce the % in a reverse exponential function and shift that extra to more PoS or longer. Meaning do it so that even then though the amount of coins raise each year, the Mnodes still receive the same constant amount.  

I think a price like this can only be realistically and efficiently set by the free and constantly changing market, so it would be optimal (if possible) to have something like bidding every year, with the devs deciding who gets nodes based on performance expectations and price (lower bids).  We just don't want to end up with some pay plan set in stone that pays nodes way beyond reasonable.

Lets not for get the masternodes buying the req. amount of OC to start one will also raise the over all price. They should raise together in ROI, this helps offset the cost to buy the OC at start up. Lets not for get that if OC raises to $2 per coin it will cost $4,000 to start one, and that ROI needs to be equal to coins price.

The problem is in two parts: we are trying to figure out how much to pay, and we will also be paying in OC;
which a currency who's value cannot be known in one week, let alone a month or year.

So we don't know how much to pay Mnodes, and even if we did, we don't know the future value of orange currency.

Maybe bidding is the only answer, but yearly is not often enough, especially in the early months of price rise.

[Jim_Rambler]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

[btcMagnet]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

[Jim_Rambler]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned.

Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin.

And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....

     

For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!!

[Halofire]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them.

[btcMagnet]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them.

Sounds great.  I also think your plan to pay for all this by pealing coins off the last days/months/years of PoS is least disruptive to all parties.

[Jim_Rambler]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Your very right the free market will set this, because 2 variables remade constant and 1 will change. The constants will be OC amount req. and rewards paid out, the variable will be the amount of masternodes. This also changes based on the price of the coin, if the price of the coin goes up (amount cost MN start up) so does the value of the rewards earned.

Masternodes are almost a form of mining, the more the rewards are worth them more MN are set up based also on how much is cost to set one up. But the best part of this kind of "mining" is ppl don't go out and pay some random online supplier for "mining" equipment. They come to you the stake holders to buy the OC at what ever price you all decided to sell them at. So all the money/ value stays in the coin.

And the $4000 figure will fade out of history with all fiat. This is part of the transition, and will be realized when the cost hits $10k for 1 'any-coin' and it wakes people up to crypto, by then, fiat portfolios will be worthless as everyone runs to crypto....

     

For sure!!! at that point ppl will run to turn fiat into crypto while the cost is raising!!!

Guys there is no need to make more work out of this then needs to be, what you are trying to do with this auction will happen on its own, once we set the numbers.

[Jim_Rambler]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them.

Sounds great.  I also think your plan to pay for all this by pealing coins off the last days/months/years of PoS is least disruptive to all parties.

I agree with you both and reappropriating the coin from the back end, I will work on example numbers and post them here later. So that eveyone can tell which ones they like

[Halofire]

This is why a set amount from the start to finish IS necessary, biding would cause way to much uncertainty for future returns.

We set the amount the masternodes receive. Then based on the amount req. to set one up and the constant return, Dictates how many masternodes people will set up. No one out there will come along and set up a masternode if adding their MN to the count divides rewards past the point of profit. So from the start we just set up the req. amount and the reward amount, from there the amount of masternodes that people will set up will depend on how many are already up and how many are left before it is no longer profitable. This number must stay constant and predictable.

I don't see how it is possible to set these amounts reasonably in the future without knowing the future.

And since when does the free market not compensate for an increase in start up cost, or any other hiccup.

If you need extra honey on a deal to get ppl interested, you pour it on, then the supply and demand takes over from there.  This is in fact the only way to even discover the true price of Mnodes.  Only a free market can tell us, anyone else would be guessing (with very little hope of being correct).

Auction off first 10 nodes. take the average price of those. Edit: but we need to determine the specs behind the mn before we can auction them.

Sounds great.  I also think your plan to pay for all this by pealing coins off the last days/months/years of PoS is least disruptive to all parties.

I agree with you both and reappropriating the coin from the back end, I will work on example numbers and post them here later. So that eveyone can tell which ones they like

Very good, thanks jim

[Halofire]

https://poloniex.com/voting
OC is listed in voting!

You know what you must do.... lol

[Byter88]

https://poloniex.com/voting
OC is listed in voting!

You know what you must do.... lol

Only 12??? I voted last week lol, come on people. Vote!

[Byter88]

https://poloniex.com/voting
OC is listed in voting!

You know what you must do.... lol

Only 12??? I voted last week lol, come on people. Vote!

One vote per account, everyone must do this!

[jingzhuipizgi22]

https://poloniex.com/voting
OC is listed in voting!

You know what you must do.... lol

If we add to some list, I will keep voting.

[Specialkey]

https://poloniex.com/voting
OC is listed in voting!

You know what you must do.... lol

Only 12??? I voted last week lol, come on people. Vote!

One vote per account, everyone must do this!

Done.

[fonzerrellie]

just saw the polo votes awesome... seems much more legit without the paid votes


tweet tweet

[Specialkey]

just saw the polo votes awesome... seems much more legit without the paid votes


tweet tweet

21 votes it works the tweet

[Jim_Rambler]

This is just an example of a constant MN reward vs. the % system we had going. I'm going to mess with some more number combos here in a sec.

Year   Coins     PoS    PoS rewards   MN rewards   
1   50,000,000   20%   10,000,000   400,000           
2   60,400,000   10%   6,040,000   200,000      
3   66,640,000   5%     3,332,000   100,000      
4   70,072,000   2.5%   1,751,800   50,000      
5   71,873,800   2.5%   1,796,845   50,000      
6   73,720,645   2.5%   1,843,016   50,000      
7   75,613,661   2.5%   1,890,342   50,000      
8   77,554,003   2.5%   1,938,850   50,000      
9   79,542,853   2.5%   1,988,571   50,000      
10   81,581,424   2.5%   2,039,536   50,000      
11   83,670,960   2.5%   2,091,774   50,000      
12   85,812,734   2.5%   2,145,318   50,000      
13   88,008,052   2.5%   2,200,201   50,000      
14   90,258,253   2.5%   2,256,456   50,000      
15   92,564,710   2.5%   2,314,118   50,000      
16   94,928,827   2.5%   2,373,221   50,000      
17   97,352,048   2.5%   2,433,801   50,000      
18   99,835,849   2.5%   2,495,896   50,000      
19   102,381,745   2.5%   2,559,544   50,000      
20   104,991,289   2.5%   2,624,782   50,000      
21   107,666,071   2.5%   2,691,652   50,000      
22   110,407,723   2.5%   2,760,193   50,000      
23   113,217,916   2.5%   2,830,448   50,000      
24   116,098,364   2.5%   2,902,459   50,000      
25   119,050,823   2.5%   2,976,271   50,000      
26   122,077,094   2.5%   3,051,927   50,000      
27   125,179,021   2.5%   3,129,476   50,000      
28   128,358,497   2.5%   3,208,962   50,000      
29   131,617,459   2.5%   3,290,436   50,000      
30   134,957,896   2.5%   3,373,947   50,000      
31   138,381,843   2.5%   3,459,546   50,000      
32   141,891,389   2.5%   3,547,285   50,000      
33   145,488,674   2.5%   3,637,217   50,000      
34   149,175,891   2.5%   3,729,397   50,000      
35   152,955,288   2.5%   3,823,882   50,000      
36   156,829,170   2.5%   3,920,729   50,000      
37   160,799,899   2.5%   4,019,997   50,000      
38   164,869,897   2.5%   4,121,747   50,000      
39   169,041,644   2.5%   4,226,041   50,000      
40   173,317,685   2.5%   4,332,942   50,000      
41   177,700,627   2.5%   4,442,516   50,000      
42   182,193,143   2.5%   4,554,829   50,000      
43   186,797,972   2.5%   4,669,949   50,000      
44   191,517,921   2.5%   4,787,948   50,000      
45   196,355,869   2.5%   4,908,897   50,000      
46   201,314,766   2.5%   5,032,869   50,000      

[Jim_Rambler]

Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 10% of what the PoS gets. The extra 10% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 5 years off the reward period.

Year/   Coins/               PoS/        PoS rewards/   % of PoS reward/   MN rewards
1   50,000,000      20%   10,000,000   10%   1,000,000
2   61,000,000      10%   6,100,000   10%   610,000
3   67,710,000       5%   3,385,500   10%   338,550
4   71,434,050   2.5%   1,785,851   10%   178,585
5   73,398,486   2.5%   1,834,962   10%   183,496
6   75,416,945   2.5%   1,885,424   10%   188,542
7   77,490,911   2.5%   1,937,273   10%   193,727
8   79,621,911   2.5%   1,990,548   10%   199,055
9   81,811,513   2.5%   2,045,288   10%   204,529
10   84,061,330   2.5%   2,101,533   10%   210,153
11   86,373,017   2.5%   2,159,325   10%   215,933
12   88,748,274   2.5%   2,218,707   10%   221,871
13   91,188,852   2.5%   2,279,721   10%   227,972
14   93,696,545   2.5%   2,342,414   10%   234,241
15   96,273,200   2.5%   2,406,830   10%   240,683
16   98,920,713   2.5%   2,473,018   10%   247,302
17   101,641,033   2.5%   2,541,026   10%   254,103
18   104,436,161   2.5%   2,610,904   10%   261,090
19   107,308,156   2.5%   2,682,704   10%   268,270
20   110,259,130   2.5%   2,756,478   10%   275,648
21   113,291,256   2.5%   2,832,281   10%   283,228
22   116,406,766   2.5%   2,910,169   10%   291,017
23   119,607,952   2.5%   2,990,199   10%   299,020
24   122,897,171   2.5%   3,072,429   10%   307,243
25   126,276,843   2.5%   3,156,921   10%   315,692
26   129,749,456   2.5%   3,243,736   10%   324,374
27   133,317,566   2.5%   3,332,939   10%   333,294
28   136,983,799   2.5%   3,424,595   10%   342,459
29   140,750,854   2.5%   3,518,771   10%   351,877
30   144,621,502   2.5%   3,615,538   10%   361,554
31   148,598,593   2.5%   3,714,965   10%   371,496
32   152,685,055   2.5%   3,817,126   10%   381,713
33   156,883,894   2.5%   3,922,097   10%   392,210
34   161,198,201   2.5%   4,029,955   10%   402,996
35   165,631,151   2.5%   4,140,779   10%   414,078
36   170,186,008   2.5%   4,254,650   10%   425,465
37   174,866,123   2.5%   4,371,653   10%   437,165
38   179,674,941   2.5%   4,491,874   10%   449,187
39   184,616,002   2.5%   4,615,400   10%   461,540
40   189,692,942   2.5%   4,742,324   10%   474,232
41   194,909,498   2.5%   4,872,737   10%   487,274
end of yr 41   200,269,510   

[Jim_Rambler]

Ok here is what it looks like to keep PoS the same and give MN 20% of what the PoS gets. The extra 20% is taken from the back end of the coins reward length. It take 9 years off the reward period.



Year   Coins                   PoS       PoS rewards   % of PoS reward   MN rewards
1   50,000,000   20%   10,000,000   20%   2,000,000
2   62,000,000   10%   6,200,000   20%   1,240,000
3   69,440,000   5%   3,472,000   20%   694,400
4   73,606,400   2.5%   1,840,160   20%   368,032
5   75,814,592   2.5%   1,895,365   20%   379,073
6   78,089,030   2.5%   1,952,226   20%   390,445
7   80,431,701   2.5%   2,010,793   20%   402,159
8   82,844,652   2.5%   2,071,116   20%   414,223
9   85,329,991   2.5%   2,133,250   20%   426,650
10   87,889,891   2.5%   2,197,247   20%   439,449
11   90,526,588   2.5%   2,263,165   20%   452,633
12   93,242,385   2.5%   2,331,060   20%   466,212
13   96,039,657   2.5%   2,400,991   20%   480,198
14   98,920,847   2.5%   2,473,021   20%   494,604
15   101,888,472   2.5%   2,547,212   20%   509,442
16   104,945,126   2.5%   2,623,628   20%   524,726
17   108,093,480   2.5%   2,702,337   20%   540,467
18   111,336,284   2.5%   2,783,407   20%   556,681
19   114,676,373   2.5%   2,866,909   20%   573,382
20   118,116,664   2.5%   2,952,917   20%   590,583
21   121,660,164   2.5%   3,041,504   20%   608,301
22   125,309,969   2.5%   3,132,749   20%   626,550
23   129,069,268   2.5%   3,226,732   20%   645,346
24   132,941,346   2.5%   3,323,534   20%   664,707
25   136,929,586   2.5%   3,423,240   20%   684,648
26   141,037,474   2.5%   3,525,937   20%   705,187
27   145,268,598   2.5%   3,631,715   20%   726,343
28   149,626,656   2.5%   3,740,666   20%   748,133
29   154,115,456   2.5%   3,852,886   20%   770,577
30   158,738,919   2.5%   3,968,473   20%   793,695
31   163,501,087   2.5%   4,087,527   20%   817,505
32   168,406,120   2.5%   4,210,153   20%   842,031
33   173,458,303   2.5%   4,336,458   20%   867,292
34   178,662,052   2.5%   4,466,551   20%   893,310
35   184,021,914   2.5%   4,600,548   20%   920,110
36   189,542,571   2.5%   4,738,564   20%   947,713
37   195,228,848   2.5%   4,880,721   20%   976,144
end of yr 37   201,085,714