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401  Other / Off-topic / Re: Please, stop having children. (Discussion about overpopulation) on: June 15, 2011, 09:49:27 AM
Stormtrooper, in my opinion the best way to lower the birth rate without imposing draconian birth laws on people (like China does) would be to raise standards of living significantly as it has been shown that higher standards of living decrease birth rates.  The best way to raise standards of living, of course, is through capitalism. 

[This is when Father McGruder shows up to argue with me.]
402  Other / Off-topic / Re: Please, stop having children. (Discussion about overpopulation) on: June 15, 2011, 09:45:54 AM
I am only reminded of the intro to the movie "Idiocracy". If I don't breed, 2 dozen hillbillies will outbreed me and then where will the world be?? I have to breed just to make sure we don't go extinct!!!


^^  This.  Smiley

403  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Your Political Perspective? on: June 15, 2011, 09:34:06 AM
I voted an-cap, because I think that is what a anarchy founded on the NAP will end up being.
404  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Implications of Satoshi holding 10% of bitcoins on: June 15, 2011, 09:22:54 AM
The implication is that he'll be able to buy a boat island.  That's pretty much it.

FTFY

It cracks me up how the legend of Satoshi Nakamoto grows.  First he was some Japanese dude with a really good idea.  Then he can't possibly be Japanese and is a mysterious libertarian benefactor who wants to change the world.  Now he's a woman and is hoarding her coins in order to benevolently "protect" the bitcoin market from instability.  I can just see people in the future commenting on price fluctuations: "Looks like ol' Satoshi is at it again, God bless 'im!"
405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There will be blood. on: June 15, 2011, 09:14:07 AM
Where would violence come from? Austrian commandos storming the Federal Reserve? A nuclear exchange between Mt.Gox and Paypal?

I don't see it.

^^ This is funny.  I get this mental picture of Mises and Hayek storming the Fed in ninja gear.  I award you +1 internets. 

I am not aware of any entities that have a monopoly on force.

What if I add "within a specific geographic location"?  Can you think of any entities that have a monopoly on coercion and compulsion within a specific geographic location?
406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Namecoin better than Bitcoin? on: June 15, 2011, 09:02:59 AM
I was thinking, some minutes ago...

* Bitcoins don't have intrinsic value
* Namecoin do have an intrinsic value (they can be "bartered" with the "system" for a new domain/for renewing the domain)

Both can be traded between persons. Clearly the value of a domain isn't "fixed" but...

Nothing has intrinsic value. What you wanted to say is that namecoins has another use apart from bieng money while bitcoins can only be used as money.

The problem with Namecoin is that if it does become money its value will skyrockedt and it wont be used for domains, therefore rendering its porpouse useless. It could also cause a panic when people realize its original poropouse is lost.

Air, food, and water all have intrinsic value, at least to humans.

Oh yes?  And what would that be?
407  Other / Off-topic / Re: Alaska? Anyone? on: June 15, 2011, 08:58:09 AM
Is anyone else here living in Alaska? I sometimes think I'm the only Bitcoiner in the state.  Sad

Anyone else? Anyone?  Bueler?

If you can convince me (and my boyfriend)why it is better than New Hampshire (my choice)or Colorado (his choice), I might move there.....(Currently the top 2 choices, I live in CA now)

Depends on what you are looking for.  If you have strong Libertarian views as do many on this forum then New Hampshire is a much better choice.  If you don't care about politics and don't mind the cold weather than Alaska is not a bad place to live.  The people tend to be very courteous and friendly on the whole, and personal freedoms are still fairly well respected. 
408  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Arrested for feeding the homeless on: June 15, 2011, 08:53:28 AM
As much as I hate rich greedy old men like Atlas, I have no sympathy whatsoever for homeless adult men. They are ultimately the reason for a lot of the poverty in our society. Since they'd rather drink, do drugs, and enjoy themselves than take care of the children they ultimately sire.

Ultimately, the laissez-faire system people like Atlas propose is fair. People who work should not be forced to support those who refuse to do so and are detriment to society. Except in the case of impoverished children. Children born into poverty and abusive homes do not deserve their plight at all. They can't possibly support or defend themselves.

In the case of children and young people (it takes a long time for someone to fully mature in this society) I feel complete government support is justified. The thing is, if the government stopped giving handouts and healthcare to useless old men, there'd be a lot more available for the children they've been abusing and forcing into poverty. We don't really need more taxes but better management of what's collected now.

"People have no control of what circumstances they are born into."

Really does the homeless veteran have control over the nightmares that keep him from having a steady job?
Does the soulcrushed prostitute who has been on the street for a decade have control over the fear of pimps and battery?

You don't want to help, fine. You don't want to help because you judge, that's fine too, just stay out of my way when I choose to help. But if anyone ever so much suggests shutting down a group that was helping people help themselves because it irritates their armchair sensitivities, I'm going to be a pain in the ass in that endeavor.

I like what a lot of people on here are doing for bitcoin, but my alarms go off when people look down on people in pain regardless of whether it's self inflicted.

Hear, hear!  Very well put.
409  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Your ideological evolution. on: June 15, 2011, 08:51:23 AM
I started as a Social Democrat, evolved into a regular Communist, then turned into a market anarchist. Go figure.

To me that just says you are capable of rationally reviewing facts and changing your mind when you find new data to convince you.  You would be surprised how many people cling stubbornly to beliefs that they cannot back up.  Sad

Anyway, welcome, brother.

Is your name a reference to the C.S. Lewis book?  (or totally unrelated?)
410  Other / Politics & Society / Re: I will admit something... on: June 15, 2011, 02:33:05 AM

What does knowing the religion of a person have to do with knowing their meaning of rational?

Your kidding right? You don't think an individual's rationality will be shaped by their religion? So now it is ok to give the unconscious agent blood?

I love this thread; it's so full of bull.

Simple. If I need a blood transfusion and the Jehova's Witness sees me and has never seen a Mormon before and assumes all people should be Jehova's Witnesses and refuses me treatment, then how are my rights not infringed?

In questions of life and death, life trumps the debate.

Does he owe you your life?  Is it your right to demand others make sure you stay alive?
411  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Arrested for feeding the homeless on: June 15, 2011, 01:59:52 AM
This is such fucking bullshit.  I can barely believe it. 
412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Name the Whale Contest - MetaCo.in promotion (Win 1.5 BTC) on: June 14, 2011, 04:47:15 PM
Moby Rick
413  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ebay? bitcoins? LOL! on: June 14, 2011, 09:29:37 AM
I love the "Free Shipping" notice below the price.   Grin
414  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the CIA on: June 14, 2011, 09:27:21 AM
Who is the creator? Gavin, you should know? Does anyone who agree that Satoshi is from Russia? I don't think Satoshi is from Japan.

I doubt it.  His writing syntax doesn't seem to be Russian to me, but I could be wrong.  Perhaps I'll go through the forum to find all Satoshi's writings and do a comprehensive analysis on them to attempt to identify the most-likely native country of his.
415  Economy / Economics / Re: Read this before having an opinion on economics on: June 14, 2011, 08:47:11 AM
Economics in One Lesson: http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf

It's a great read. It's brief. It doesn't go into a lot of technical detail but it does illustrate a central fallacy that many people, even some economists, make when thinking about economics. If you haven't read this book, I'm going to assume you're ignorant about economics until proven otherwise.

That is like saying that if you haven't read the Koran you're ignorant about god and spirituality.  This is a political document first and a treatise on economics second.  Let's not forget that.  There are other schools of economics.  Everything beyond the basics in economics is a fundamentally political statement.

Well, really, this book IS just the basics, but even so I disagree with your statement. I'm reading Mises' Human Action right now, and he delineates between political ideas and economics. True economics, after all, are amoral and apolitical.

"True economics, after all, are amoral and apolitical."

Could you please define what you consider to be "True Economics"?  I would interpret that to mean just basic supply and demand curve stuff but since you also say that "This book IS just the basics" leads me to believe that you consider the below quotes from the book to be completely non-political statements: 

"We have already seen some of the harmful results of arbitrary governmental efforts to raise the price of favored commodities. The same sort of harmful results follows efforts to raise wages through minimum wage laws."

Chapters titled: "WHO'S "PROTECTED" BY TARIFFS?" & "TAXES DISCOURAGE PRODUCTION" and others.

These are blatantly political topics.  I'm amazed that anyone can claim that there is some sort of disinterested 'correct' answer regarding this positions that wouldn't seek to favor one segment of the population over the other.  This is the nature of political economy.


"It is true that economics is a theoretical science and as such abstains from any judgement of value.  It is not its task to tell people what ends they should aim at.  It is a science of the means to be applied for the attainment of ends chosen, not, to be sure, a science of the choosing of ends.  Ultimate decisions, the valuations and the choosing of ends are beyond the scope of any science.  Science never tells a man how he should act; it merely shows how a man must act if he wants to attain definite ends."  --Ludwig Von Mises, Human Action, pg 10

In the tradition of the Austrian school I consider economics to be a sub-category of the more general theory of praxeology, the general science of human action.  As such, it is intrinsically a valueless science.  To be sure, the different men who study it have their own biases and judgements of values, which cannot entirely be discarded.  Both Mises and Hazlitt held classical liberal (what now would probably be called "libertarian") views and did not seek to hide it.   However, their study of economics was an attempt to reveal the truths behind economic law and how one must act in order to achieve specific goals. 

I'm amazed that anyone can claim that there is some sort of disinterested 'correct' answer regarding this positions that wouldn't seek to favor one segment of the population over the other.  This is the nature of political economy.

The lesson that Hazlitt tries to teach in this book is:

"The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups." (pg 5)

You are right that there isn't a "correct" answer regarding positions of value judgements.  However, often, policy makers enact policies that contradict their stated aims.  The goal of that book is to show how certain seemingly innocuous policies and acts are actually harmful to large portions of the population or, at least, contradict the goals they were supposed to achieve.  I feel that Hazlitt dealt with it in a very thorough, logical and even-handed manner.  You should consider reading the work in its entirety.  It is short and a fairly easy read.

There are 2 fundamental dynamics you should keep in mind when it comes to schools of thought on economics: does this person's position represent the monied intrests or those without?  Or where between these two do they strike a balance?  If you can't accept that, then how do you rationalize that the person writing the book and presenting their arguments are completely removed from the system that they intend to influence with their arguments and positions?  Is it your position (and I honestly do not intend to misrepresent it) that they all are completely 100% objective, somehow above the political and social landscape yet are involved enough with it's working to comment on all facets of it to which they intend to see a desired effect?  Not to say that they don't have a point and that their interests need a degree of representation but there exists extremes on both sides of this argument and those very extremes seem to offer the least in terms of practical worth in our modern era.

Man is a product of his social and political environment--I will not deny it.  I would like to point out however, that Mises, for example, was writing at a time when socialism was the most popular socio-political movement of the age and when his free-market laissez faire views were in the extreme minority.  Mises had first-hand experience with the authoritarian statist policies of the day, fleeing his homeland of Austria because of the Nazis.  He wasn't writing for the money-interests of crony capitalism, the rampant corporatism we see today.  Also, I will not deny that no man is 100% objective and that no science is perfect, but as Mises says

"[it] is customary for people to blame economics for being backward.  Now it is quite obvious that our economic theory is not perfect.  There is no such thing as perfection in human knowledge, nor for that matter in any other human achievement.  Omniscience is denied to man.  The most elaborate theory that seems to satisfy completely our thirst for knowledge may one day be amended or supplanted by a new theory.  Science does not give us absolute and final certainty.  It only gives us assurance within the limits  of our mental abilities and the prevailing state of scientific thought.  A scientific system is but one station in an endlessly progressing search for knowledge.  It is necessarily affected by the insufficiency inherent in every human effort.  But to acknowledge these facts does not mean that present-day economics is backward.  It merely means that economics is a living thing--and to live implies both imperfection and change."

And that is what Mises and the other Austrians attempt to do.  That is, within the limits of their own imperfection as humans, to discover the immutable laws of economics as derived logically through a priori reasoning.  You can know things apodictically: if two parties engage in uncoerced exchange, then they do so because they are both expecting to receive something of greater value than what they are giving up.  Axiomatic propositions such as these do not need to be verified through empirical studies, but can be known logically to be true.  This is the Austrian science of economics.
416  Economy / Economics / Re: Mises regression theorem is inconsistent on: June 14, 2011, 07:37:22 AM

The argument from the Mises' Regression Theorem and Menger goes that a money good must have demand for some non-monetary utility, at least initially in history, in order to even become money.

Careful, Menger said that usually, all commodities that became money throughout history had a non-monetary use before becoming money.  It is was just an historical observation, but he did not establish that as a necessary precondition for money.   Only Mises, with his regression theorem, established it as a necessary precondition.

Quote
Namecoins are identical to bitcoins in the way that the are mined, and in the way transactions occur, but you can do something with a namecoin: register and hold a .bit domain name.

As I said from the beginning, I donīt think itīs mandatory for anything to become money to have a prior non-monetary use.  Besides, having a non-monetary use does not guarantee that the good is not demonetized in the future and probably lose most of its value.  Nevertheless, having more than one utility is a nice property, which will make that new money more valuable and stable.   Namecoins would fullfill the regression theorem for sure.  I agree with you.


Maneulgar,  this is a really interesting point.  I'm not sure I can disagree with you at this point.  I want to think and read about this for a while and then will post my thoughts back on here.  It would have been impossible for Mises to predict the emergence of a scare money source out of non-scarce items (bitcoins which are based on electrons, or digital ones and zeros) so does his Regression Theorem fail?  Food for thought. 
417  Other / Politics & Society / Re: most libertarian US states? on: June 12, 2011, 07:44:02 PM
Alaska obviously. Open carry, legal marijuana, and very few laws which infringe on civil rights are a few factors that make Alaska the most libertarian state.

NH is slowly growing because of the FSP and other movements. The state house is definitely the most libertarian legal body in the country.

Marijuana isn't exactly legal, only for medical use and less than 1 oz for personal use.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/marijuana-laws-and-penalties/alaska.htm

We're a weird state because there are a lot of "independent" minded people ande a fair amount of personal freedoms but the State is heavily dependent on the Federal Governement and that shows up in other ways.
418  Other / Off-topic / Re: The chaos thread. on: June 12, 2011, 07:30:45 PM
Cool, but should be in Off-Topic, no?  Smiley
419  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why I have fallen out of love with democracy. on: June 12, 2011, 10:28:51 AM


Atlas, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You're getting to be as bad as Kiba.   ;-)
420  Other / Off-topic / Re: send out your women on: June 10, 2011, 06:16:02 PM
I don't see how telling someone to fuck off is the same as crying.

You got emotional over a post on the internet.

Read through this forum.  Plenty of guys get emotional about posts on the internet.  In fact, John Doe, I could probably dig up some posts by you that could be considered "emotional" responses.  People get pissed off and upset about posts all the time, regardless of gender.
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