i feel also tempted. sell the gold or not...  |
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If I want to pay someone in Indonesia the equivalent of 100 USD, this needs to happen:
a) sell a suitable amount of bitcoin on the local bourse
b) redraw the local fiat to my local bank
c) order a wire transfer in my local bank
d) the local bank needs to order that in one of my country's internationally connected banks.
e) the sum is converted to dollars
f) that bank must order a wire from its account in an international bank like deutche bank
g) the wire arrives in an internationally connected bank's foreign bank account
h) the sum is converted to rupiah
i) the sum is moved from the local banks account in the big Indonesian bank
j) the sum is moved to the customers account
k) the customer must send the fiat to his local exchange
l) the customer must sell his fiat on the exchange
m) the customer must retrieve his bitcoins
So may smart people here, could this procedure be streamlined?
just put the coins in an envelope, send it via airmail  |
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Das Problem, wenn die Mining-Blase platzt, ist nicht, dass ein paar Miner abgeschaltet werden und die Difficulty sinkt. Sondern die Gefahr ist eine _richtig_ große Panik, wenn mehrere größere Mining-Fische auf einmal ihre akkumulierten Coins abstoßen. Dann sind die überbärischen Prognosen von Kursen unter $100 auf jeden Fall realistisch - und das wird das Vertrauen in BTC wahrscheinlich langfristig schaden.
ich denke, dass die großen miner millionen investiert haben und gewusst haben/einkalkuliert haben, dass es ein paar jahre dauern kann bis zum break even. wer mit millionen superkurzfristig spekulieren will, der kauft keine hardware/baut server/miner center auf sondern zockt an den zahlreichen börsen irgendwelche finanzprodukte. industrielle miner (= millionen investiert) können nicht beim ersten gegenwind die segel streichen. imo die meisten werden es aussitzen, so lange es geht. (sie werden umswitchen auf direktes ankaufen von coins oder alles einfrieren, aber nicht komplett aufgeben (miner verkaufen, halle kündigen etc) |
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I think this will be the last couple of days that 400 holds, I think we will be visiting 300-360 soon enough.
same, generally, but the time part is so hard to nail down. it's impossible to get the short term details right, but everything has been pointing for me to that general range. we could bounce a bit, hell, given all the shorts taken out at 400, we could bounce 30 or 40 points, but i think low-mid 300s are coming in the next couple weeks. There are no buyers. It's that simple. The result of 9 months of dumping and chasing cheap coins. Everybody thought that after crashing down tons of buyers were dying to get in with cheap coins. Nope. There is nobody. Now of course i keep reading we need to hit 350 before we can get back up. And after that 260. Well, these new buyers won't suddenly appear then. Also there is no guarantee we will go back again. As i keep saying one day it will stop. People will get tired of losing money. Of getting dumped on by traders every time they invest some money. For now the Bitcoin hype is over and we better hope for something good to happen or all your cheap coins will be just that. Cheap coins. The question is will we learn from this situation. And the answer is most likely no. There has been tons of buyers that is why the price recovered to 600$ + a few months ago and there is still a lot of buyers but there is a lot of sellers as well and a lot of new coins hit the market The Bitcoin hype will come back when the fiat currencies will show what they truly are : manipulated, inflated and unreliable for store of value But this is not a few months ago. A few months ago tons of people started buying because they expected the price to go up. Instead they got dumped on, day after day. They sold and left and won't make that mistake again. Neither will all the people who watched it happen from the sidelines. You see, that's the "problem". These people actually do learn from their mistakes. Keep in mind that pretty much everyone who invested in Bitcoin this year lost money. Almost a full year. Exactly at the time everyone expected something great to happen. This damaged Bitcoin so much. So many here underestimate this. They think they just can keep crashing the market, pick up cheap coins and go back up again. You can't. After 5 or 6 years now investors are gonna say fuck it. I'm not gonna put money in something and get dumped on day after day by greedy traders obsessed with cheap coins. The previous years was ok for that. Not anymore. This year was the year to get serious. But everyone who tried to invest lost their money because of traders and dumpers. What do you expect them to do? Invest again? From what you wrote, BTC seems a pure bubble and people buy it only because it will rise overnight. If that's sure, it's better to see BTC dies now than later. Maybe your account was newly bought, otherwise really sad to see a Hero Member saying such thing here. I think you are off track. BTC is supposed to be a currency. As a personal example, I travel to Thailand once or twice per year for business. I don't mind keeping a few hundred USD in Thai baht when I leave, since the value is reasonably stable against the dollar (usually rising, in fact). Now, btc, as a currency, has devalued by 60 or 70% in 10 months. Price = exchange rate. It takes 3 btc to buy the same Dell laptop that cost 1 btc last year. I won't even mention store of value, which is my intended use. And, a greater market cap (or whatever term you want to use) allows btc to be used for many more applications. To pretend the price/exchange rate/value is unimportant is insane. If it is supposed to be a currency, then it definitely matters. chill out guys, you are both right. you just have different time frames in mind. if btc should become a world currency it will become also more stable. but in order to get there it needs to scale up several orders of magnitude. that again has to be accompanied by a price rise in the same order of magnitude. |
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It's about to shoot off like a rocket. Buy now!  it took me a while to notice the apple. |
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There is another friend in the millionaire category that i got interested in. he invested in october/november, average about $ 250, never sold and heute is actually interested in the tech, but even services like bitstamp he cannot comprehend, it is all way too complicated for him.
Where did he buy at? the plan was to get him an account at stamp, which worked - but to get a confirmed account never worked (they have not accepted his documents, we never got beyond this point) he actually bought from me. |
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So why aren't they presently taking those actions?
A good friend of mine serves as a case study. He's a very successful businessman in the multi-millionaire category. I convinced him at the beginning of the run up last fall to buy a sizable chunk of btc, at average buy-in price just below $400. His only bitcoin-related comment to me during 2014 was to take note of the fact that the bitcoin price was "in the shitter." He sold a few months ago (against my advice) at about $600, for better than 50% profit. The timing of the sale had more to do with the fact that he needed the cash for a new business venture than for anything related to bitcoin. But the fact is that despite his favorable experience investing in bitcoin, he still isn't interested enough to dig into bitcoin fundamentals. It takes a LOT of time, energy, and research to be confident enough that you are a better judge of bitcoin's long term viability than the market. Most people still don't have the incentive to do that; and if they are not tech-savvy, they will continue to doubt bitcoin until the moment they can see it in action, up close and personal. What would it take for my friend to buy into it again? I'm not sure. But if I could take him and his wife out to dinner and pay for it in bitcoin -- that might do it. my landlord is a multi-millionaire. i got her and her sons convinced to invest in btc last may/june. first thing that happened was we were 50% down ( i invested at the same days ) when october came and price went 10% above the price we went in, they wanted to sell. they wanted to sell almost every day through november and i strongly advised them every time to hold. when their investment had 10-folded they sold. I didn't. they don't care about bitcoin as a technology. it was just a funny investment. I may be too much in love with bitcoin to ever sell, but next run up, i try to perform a little bit better. There is another friend in the millionaire category that i got interested in. he invested in october/november, average about $ 250, never sold and heute is actually interested in the tech, but even services like bitstamp he cannot comprehend, it is all way too complicated for him. |
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nice thread, ty |
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Probably bought another 100 or so coins in the last 12 hours... You are very fortunate to have so much disposable fiat currency wealth. There are many more "traditional" Fiat Wales (or at least a tuna) like myself that have been watching Bitcoin for quite a while. Expect many more of us in the very near future... Welcome! very welcome |
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Dump gold & dump btc on every opportunity. Trend is your friend these days.
now the btc price is so deep down i am starting to feel i should buy more. my average entry is at $ 140, i got some gold i could sell, which would buy more than 50 btc right now. gold will not explode, but it will also not implode. bitcoin, on the other hand.... should i sell the gold? |
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“Bitcoin is an extremely important innovation, but not in the way most people think. Bitcoin’s real innovation is a globally verifiable proof publishing at a certain time. The whole system is built on that concept and many other systems can also be built on it. The block chain nails down history, breaking Orwell’s dictum of ‘He who controls the present controls the past and he who controls the past controls the future’.” j.assange |
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how many coins can the dumper own?
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I'm quite amazed where these huge sellers get their coins from.
Remember those 850.000 bitcoins "lost" on the MtGox? Somebody has the private keys of those BTC. Ask yourself what would you do if that was you. Would you hold all of them, or would you convert some to the fiat? my guess is that if one was smart enough to steal this amount of coins he/she is also smart enough to sell them off exchange. if it was me, selling them via a verified exchange account would be the last thing i would do. |
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The decentralized Bitcoin network is more efficient, cheaper and secure than Apple Pay and eventually should be embraced by the consumer. However, just like digital music needed the evolutionary step from Napster to iTunes, so, too, do digital currencies need this move by Apple. Ziemlicher Unsinn, oder? 7tx/s und unsichere 3d party services sind eine Melange, die nicht dazu geeignet ist Apple in Verlegenheit zu bringen. Ich könnte mir aber vorstellen, dass Apple irgendwann Bitcoin integriert - und sei es als Gimmick. jeder weiß, dass bitcoin noch in den kinderschuhen steckt. die blockchain ist dem alten kreditkartensystem technologisch jahrzehnte voraus. das musst du doch mitbekommen haben ? |
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Krugman is now hedging: Do you think Bitcoin will gain momentum and become a viable currency?
No. I could be wrong, but Bitcoin is harder to use than other forms of electronic payment, and lacks any fundamental source of value (unlike dollars, which can be used to pay taxes). It’s possible that Bitcoin will somehow become self-supporting, but for now my guess is that it’s largely a fad that will collapse one of these days.http://www.princetonmagazine.com/paul-krugman/This is the error which is obvious to many here, but not many mainstream economists. Bitcoin has enormous fundamental value because of its utility. Rapid, global, transfer of monetary value without third-party intervention, is fundamentally of value. The security of the system, through mining, and the cap on total issuance are pillars which makes the technology monetarily viable. There is a subtlety here: the stored value of Bitcoin derives from its ability to transfer value. Eventually Krugman will figure this out, but it will be hard to accept as he will still cling onto the inflation-is-good meme. I think Erik Voorhees' open letter to Peter Schiff on this subject is very good. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1rxmk3/my_open_letter_to_peter_schiff_followup_from_thenice one from erik. needed that, thx |
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I think this Apple pay thing is major good news that we haven't seen hit the price yet. It's like a rumbling in the distance, the thing we didn't see coming on our list of 2014 bubble catalysts. It's always that thing that does it. Hold on tight.
May be it's possible, we can't be sure, what is in the Apple pipeline for mobile payment. May be bitcoin or something else, it's not sure yet. Personally, I don't think it matters if Apple adds bitcoin or not. We've been trying to sell the idea of secure mobile payments to the masses since the inception of bitcoin. It's too convenient of an excuse that people don't want to buy a device to send/receive these kinds of payments, nobody is supporting it, and why do I need it anyways? Suddenly we have Apple stepping up to the plate simultaneously marketing the idea AND rolling out the infrastructure to make it ubiquitous. The idea that these efforts are in competition with bitcoin's success is incorrect. Ultimately from the end user perspective, you're going to be waving your phone around to pay for things soon. That's a reality. And ultimately you're going to be given a choice about how much fees you want to pay to do that. Even for people who don't understand or want to have anything to do with bitcoin, there will be intermediate services like Bitpay or Circle that can facilitate those transactions in the same manner as Apple, only using the bitcoin network as the backbone instead of credit cards, allowing for the exact same thing to happen for less fees. That's something everyone can get behind. So, in my opinion, we can be sure. You make quite a convincing argument. It might take some time, though. + 1 |
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http://www.cnbc.com/id/101988826zum thema apple pay, napster, itunes... Once consumers break the need for a tactile payment method, it will be easier to accept new methods of exchange. When consumers realize how easy it is to pay digitally they will begin to ask for a cheaper way to do so. Apple Pay introduces the consumer to the idea of tokenization and once comfortable, the consumer will likely demand more, more, more. This is the opportunity that digital currencies must embrace. Napster led to iTunes which changed the way we all buy music; Bitcoin has led to Apple Pay which will change the way we all buy "things."
3 reasons Wall Street can't stay away from bitcoin
The announcement of a mobile-payment system by Apple was an evolutionary step. The infrastructure it runs on is old technology linked to a centralized financial system. Tokenization is a time-tested encryption method of "one-time use-card numbers" that has been used prior to Apple Pay. However, Apple's ability to put a user-friendly face on existing technology should not be underestimated. The decentralized Bitcoin network is more efficient, cheaper and secure than Apple Pay and eventually should be embraced by the consumer. However, just like digital music needed the evolutionary step from Napster to iTunes, so, too, do digital currencies need this move by Apple.
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The chargebacks with Apple Pay and OneTouch is going to be ridiculous for merchants.
If it's as easy as one button, where do people sign? As a merchant, we deal with chargebacks all the time. Credit card companies want to see receipts with signatures, or else the customer gets their money back. Where's the incentive for merchants to add Apple Pay?
Apple Pay and OneTouch is the same shit wrapped up in a new box. Instead of pulling your card out of your wallet, you're now touching your phone to some device. Only the "act of payment" has changed. The fundamental technology/rails is the same.
maybe that they have to buy yet another expensive terminal  (including contracts, fees, maintenance...) edit: i run a retail shop. to let customers pay in btc i had to invest ... hm... how much is the cost of a bw printout ... 2 cents ? |
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jobs would have sued satoshi, accusing him of using apple source code.
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