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4181  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Difficulty - I don't get it on: July 08, 2011, 07:18:53 PM
is the difficulty calculated to compensate the inherited error, or is it only to match the next 2016 blocks so they would be all 10min long from now on?

No, difficulty does not attempt to compensate for the inherited error.  So assuming that difficulty continues to go up, and never down, average block creation over the lifetime of Bitcoin will be something slightly faster than every ten minutes.  Thus it is possible that the entire production curve for bitcoins will be compressed slightly, and the blocks wherein the block reward will come earlier than projected.  However, there will still be exactly the same amount of bitcoins issued as is projected.
4182  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Daily blockchain updates on Android Market? on: July 08, 2011, 06:51:55 PM
I'm having the same problem, and am starting to suspect that we've been tricked into sending small change to an address not under our own control.  I can't find evidence on my own phone that it's actually downloading the blockchain (headers or full).  There is no block count, only a spinning icon; so there is no way to judge it's progress.  The only option in the settings section is 'refresh'.  What is it refreshing?  I can't examine the code, so until I see evidence otherwise, or someone on this forum that I trust will inform me otherwise, I will consider this a rather ingenious method of 'phishing' fraud.
4183  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Just jumped into the bitcoin game... thoughts and questions on: July 08, 2011, 06:33:04 PM
I think that if defficulty will not drop, the mining will die  Sad

If mining dies, difficulty will drop.


It's interesting how quickly the BTC economy has gotten to the point where mining is only barely profitable; that should, of course, theoretically happen, but it happened quite fast. So people will make money on the bleeding edge - folks who have slightly more efficient rigs (or access to free electricity), or can capitalize quickly on sudden increases in the BTC exchange rate, will make a little money for a bit. The ebb and flow of difficulty vs miners' dropping out, others getting more efficient, etc, should keep mining at near-zero profit for folks with average equipment. This is the nature of an efficient market. It's just surprising we got here so soon.

Don't forget about those who mine to heat their little flats in higher latitudes.  I seriously expect that Bitcoin mining will be concentrated in locales with either very inexpensive electricity (at least relative to the costs of other heating fuels) and locales where heating demand is high.  Thus, if you live in Hawaii, forget about it.  Denver in Winter, maybe.  Iceland?  It's bound to be a year round occupation.
4184  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Guys, you should not buy in such a hurry on: July 08, 2011, 06:12:43 PM
Yes. He used to to be an investment consultant.

I think he is concerned that the market is very easy to manipulate with less than $300Million in value.

He is likely correct.  Bitcoin is very high risk, but with a very high potential gain.  And it will continue to be this way for some time.  However, increases in the size of the Bitcoin economy will dampen this issue eventually; but by then it can be assumed that the price of a bitcoin will reflect that.  Listen to your father, proceed with caution.  Do not invest anything into something that you don't understand.
4185  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Just jumped into the bitcoin game... thoughts and questions on: July 08, 2011, 06:04:45 PM
I think that if defficulty will not drop, the mining will die  Sad

If mining dies, difficulty will drop.
4186  Other / Politics & Society / Re: To all of those who would feel oppressed in a Libertarian society... on: July 08, 2011, 05:41:05 PM
And we're done here.
4187  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Android Released! on: July 08, 2011, 05:32:24 PM
This is kinda cool, Wired just ran a piece on it.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/07/bitcoin-android-app/

Am I wrong or do they have this part backwards??

Quote
When you want to transfer Bitcoins to another account, a QR code pops up on your smartphone’s screen. The other user simply scans the QR code with his or her phone, and the Bitcoins are transferred to the second phone’s account.

The phone that 'pops up' a QR code would be the receiver.
The person scanning a QR code would be the sender.


You would be correct.
4188  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Android Released! on: July 08, 2011, 05:20:40 AM
Could anyone post a link in this original Android thread to send folks over to this thread?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1812.120

Being eligible for the bounty would obviously be nice.  Thanks!

I'm actually trying to determine that.
4189  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Android Released! on: July 08, 2011, 05:19:58 AM
How do I know that it's actually making progress downloading the blockchain?  And why not have a regularly updated app that is really just an archive of the blockchain headers?
4190  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: July 08, 2011, 05:05:21 AM
Thanks MoonShadow, I have to take your word for it (and it makes sense), but I can't see much from graphs. I'm looking at st. Louis fed and m0, m1, m2, all look more or less the same except for scale (well m0 sky rockets in 2008 while the others increase as always).

Now I have to wrap my head around what happens to imaginary credit backed by defaulted imaginary credit. Why not just write the loss off the books?


The minimum reserve requirements of the bank in question could be breeched.
Quote

Why doesn't the entire economy collapse after just one default?


Well, it's not really quite so fragile.  It's all a fiction, really; so it just becomes a greater fiction, but all the while someone is making money even when that money is disappearing.  The fiction begets a real world effect.
Quote

 Do the banks just get fined when they drop less than 10% reserve?


Under normal times, such a bank would be put on probation of sorts, and given a time period to raise the reserve requirements.  If they failed they would be seized on behalf of the FDIC and sold to a more capitalized bank.  In the present times, we are running out of more capitalized banks.

Quote

The bail out just put them in the legal boundaries, precisely creating the monetary inflation the reserve laws are meant to prevent?


Sort of, but the apparent inflation creeps into the greater economy at a lag of around 14 to 18 months.  So the banks have some time to make full use of that new money before the markets respond.  Stock & bond markets tend to react much faster than the rest of the economy, though.

Quote
If what you say is correct, then the Fed did prevent price deflation (in one sector). The money supply growth remains stable. What's the problem?

The problem is that it's a balancing act, and one that always has victims.  Also, keep in mind that although the banks didn't fail due to bad loans, they made those bad loans and in the end of it all those banks not only ended up with the money (which must be paid with taxation, thus a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the banker class) they also ended up with the properties.  Literally getting their cake and eating it too.
4191  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Would killing the minimum wage help? on: July 08, 2011, 04:51:07 AM
Well, it's a matter of property rights. I should be able to sell my labor for less than $7 an hour if I want to. It's my body, damn it.

Actually, you can.  Minimum wage laws have exceptions.
4192  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is actually slower than my bank? on: July 08, 2011, 12:57:55 AM
I really don't know what to tell you.
4193  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Would killing the minimum wage help? on: July 08, 2011, 12:52:49 AM

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm opposed to the minimum wage, but in reality repealing it would have almost zero effect.  There are relatively few minimum wage jobs as it is, as most unskilled jobs pay more.  Most of the unemployed are unemployed because they have a certain skillset, and will chose to remain on unemployment insurance payments so long as they last rather than take a lower wage job.  If we were to repeal both the minimum wage laws and restrict or repeal unemployment insurance, there might be some measurable effects.  But the truth of the matter is that most of the unemployed can find minimum wage work, but won't because they are accustomed to a higher wage and better working conditions than a minimum wage job.
4194  Economy / Economics / Re: What we need is FAIR markets, not free markets. on: July 08, 2011, 12:45:28 AM
If you're actually interested in level headed analysis you should check out the unabomber manifesto.  of course it mostly isn't anything *new*, but it is put together in an fairly efficient way.

I wouldn't call anything that led to the conclusion: "Therefore I will mail you explosives" 'level-headed'

prepare to be surprised.

http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

Well, After a quick skim, I saw nothing that leapt out and screamed 'WACKADOO', and he does seem to have outlined the insanity of what he calls 'Leftism'. So, color me surprised. How he thought explosives could fix things, though...

The Unabomber wasn't trying to fix anything, in reality.  He was enacting vengence towards people he belived had done him wrong.  The manifesto was a distraction and cover.
4195  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Destroying bitcoin, by coin, by coin... on: July 08, 2011, 12:33:45 AM

You'd actually be much better off trying to reverse-engineer
(factor) the private elliptic key from the public one: there are
methods that are slightly faster than brute-forcing it the way
you describe. However: IMO still completely unfeasible with
current technology, and being able to do that would, for obvious
reasons, signify the end of bitcoin.

No, it wouldn't.  It would only signify the end of using that particular type of public/private cryptographic signature.  Bitcoin is modular, the encryption methods in use can be replaced.
4196  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is actually slower than my bank? on: July 08, 2011, 12:23:31 AM
Ok - I'm using this

/home/nick/bitcoin-0.3.17/bin/64/bitcoin  -rescan -noirc -addnode=64.31.38.250-addnode=74.82.216.10 -addnode=178.63.62.15 -addnode=173.224.125.222 -addnode=91.85.220.84 -addnode=91.85.220.84 -addnode=173.224.125.222 -addnode=86.5.50.90 -addnode=178.255.199.8

How long should I have to wait before it does anything?

I've waited 10 minutes and it's still showing a grand total of zero connections... ever once in a while it'll make 1 connection - but not enough to dowload a single block

Then you have a firewall that is actively killing your outbound connections.  If you were just blocked for inbound connections, you'd hit 8 and stay there.  More than 8 means that you're unblocked.  A single connection that keeps dying means that there is an active process killing your connections.
4197  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: July 08, 2011, 12:07:30 AM
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." - Friedman, Milton. A Monetary History of the United States 1867-1960 (1963).


Perhaps some econ guru can clear something up for me. In 2008 the supply of dollars M0 most certainly went way up. However at the same time (in some cases before) the price in dollars of hard commodities such as silver, platinum, and crude oil (not gold) dropped significantly. That seems counter intuitive to me and contradicts the seemingly obvious idea that monetary inflation generally effects price inflation.

During that same time period that M0 was rising, consumer credit was collapsing.  Particularly with regard to housing loans.  Mortgage defaults (or any credit default, really) is deflationary.  As the market value of homes across American tanked, much of the monetary base ceased to exist, because much of the monetary base is digits these days, and not just paper.  As homeowners filed for bankruptcy, and got it, the digits that depended upon those debts simply ceased to exist; and so the real monetary base (could be M1, M-Prime, the Austrian Money metric; choose one, they all have faults) still contracted.
4198  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is actually slower than my bank? on: July 07, 2011, 11:59:31 PM
Nope - not mining


re: downloading all blocks... that'll be why. My client says "133901", Bitcoin charts says 135218.

It claims to have one connection - oop... now it's zero... now it's one again. The 133901 appears not to change... no... I lie, after about 5 minutes, it's gone up to 133902

Now it has two connections and it's gone up to 133903.


So... 135218-133903=1315 ... at about 12 blocks downloaded an hour - that comes to about 4.5 days... about the time it would take to send money in cash, by plane.


Down to zero connections again.

I've got client version .3.17 - do I need to upgrade it or something?

All right, I know what is happening, as I have had it happen to me.  Restart your client using the -rescan, -noirc and -addnode= switches.  The addnode= switch needs the IP address of a fallback node just after the equal sign.  Use two or more fallback nodes.  The client should then rescan the blockchain and then not announce it's presence on the IRC channel, but it will get more nodes from the fallback nodes, and other nodes should do the same for you.
4199  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is actually slower than my bank? on: July 07, 2011, 10:36:02 PM
There's two transactions because your friend's addresses didn't have the full amount on one address.

No, that's not it.  Even if his friend didn't have the full amount on one address, bitcoin consolidates by default, and all of the input addresses would have been included into one transaction and processed at the same time.
4200  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is actually slower than my bank? on: July 07, 2011, 10:34:08 PM


Someone paid me some bitcoins yesterday - if I look in Bitcoin-explorer the transaction is there... though for reasons I don't understand, there actually appears to be two transactions

http://blockexplorer.com/address/1B6TPhjmRWNHwDxtjax5WTy4RyPWCeVY3q

but it hasn't turned up in my bitcoin client.

So I leave it overnight... still not there.

If it's visable in Blockexplorer, you already have it.  It's your client that isn't seeing the transaction, for whatever reason.

Quote


In the same time, HSBC have completed a transaction.

So um... am I missing something here - because as far as I can see, bitcoin is really slow.


Out of curiosity, why are there two transactions for 1B6TPhjmRWNHwDxtjax5WTy4RyPWCeVY3q ?

That second one is curious.  Are you in a mining pool using this address?
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