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3841  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: September 21, 2011, 12:52:42 AM
I understand that deflation cannot be as high as inflation can. So what? I'm not advocating for inflation.
Deflation doesn't last for long. It

1) Liquidates the unsustainable debt that interest (very often with the help of politicians and/or monetary inflation) has created.
2) Destroys (or just stops to produce) enough real capital so that capital yields can be high enough (higher than interest rates) again.

And then disappears. Deflation is unsustainable in the long run. By sustained deflation, an ounce of gold could buy the world with enough time which is nonsense, but it still is a destructive force.

I suppose that our disagreement is more of a matter of degree.  I don't contest that deflation can be a destructive force.  I do think that a monetary system that tends towards deflation (gold standard, Bitcoin) and is naturally moderated is preferable to one that tends towards inflation (fractional reserve fiat) and is actively moderated.  The reason that it's preferable is because the consequences of the business cycle are more muted in a deflationary monetary model.  Thus, deflation is not "good" so much as it's better than the alternative, generally speaking.


Probably my view of praxeology is too simple, I just learn about it last year. I just wanted to say that I prefer to rely on logic and undeniable truths rather than "historical evidences" in our discussion.

Although praxeology attempts to use reason and logic, it's still a social science.  There are no such things as 'undeniable truths' in any social science.  And the greatest folly of most self-described economists, both in history and modern, is the failure to recognize that economics is a social science.  Otherwise, mathmatical models really could be developed that consistantly predict economic events.  People have been trying to do this for decades in some form or another, but none are particularly good.  The best predictive model ever devised is the predictive market, such as Intrade, that leverages the collective wisdom of society itself in an organized fashion.  Even the best prophet among us isn't as good as all of us.


 If you master that methodology, then use it to make me see the light. I just don't see how you can convince me that "deflation is good/innocuous" (as many people here claims) with logic.

Again, I'm not making such a claim.  I'm been arguing that it's better than the alternative.


The argument to defend deflation that I've heard more times is "look, inflation is bad because...". I don't want to solve the problems of deflation with inflation. I prefer to look for the source of deflation. As far as I can tell the sources of deflation are:

1) The downside of economic cycles, debt and credit destruction (the worst and bigger cause).
2) Hoarding (that allows parties with enough money to cause deflation on their own)
3) Economic growth

What causes economic cycles in my opinion is interest, a quality of scarce and everlasting moneys (capital-money).

Again, I have to say that you are correct, but not completely so.  Economics is a complex topic, and any such simplification of causes such as you present are bound to leave out or gloss over non-trivial contributing factors.  But it doesn't matter what the root causes are, if one accepts that any market is 'unstable' and always seeking it's equalibrium.  Once you accept that, then it becomes obvious that the business cycle, as the agragate view of that unstablility, is inevitable.  If the cycle is inevitable, then the best overall solution is to use a monetary system that is self-regulating and generally less likely to reach extremes.  The only monetary systems that fit that description are commodity standards and Bitcoin.

We could talk about gold instead of bitcoins, both are flawed as money in the same way.

In what way do you consider them flawed?
3842  Economy / Economics / Re: Does America Really Need More Jobs? on: September 21, 2011, 12:26:27 AM
Machines actually create wealth and make things less expensive in society and free up innovation to fill more desires.

This is dead on correct.  By hindsight, we now know that the most important change in society that led to the equal rights of women was not the Women's Sufferage movement.  It was the invention of the automatic washing machine.

Those who are wealthy enough to afford a maid to clean their homes pay them because they favor their free time over their money.  The maid cleans the home because they favor the money over the free time.  It's a difference in wants and values.  The wealthy don't value money as much as the poor, because they have more than enough to satisfy their primal needs.  Thus they are willing to pay the poor woman to be their maid.  So who benefits most from the advancements in consumer technology?  The middle class and the poor.  Because of the inventions of washing machines, vacuums and automatic dishwashers; both middle class housewives and those nearly destitute maids of the rich are better off then their predecessors a few generations ago.  If a man is wealthy enough, he didn't have to labor to meet his own needs even back in Roman times, since he just had to hire more servants (or by more slaves).  The modern maid, however, directly benefits from the effectiveness of labor saving devices designed for the American middle class homemaker.  Because of a washing machine, the maid does not need to commit so much time or personal effort into the washing of clothes.  Because of the Roomba, she might be able to vacuum personally in one room while the robot vacuums in the next room; so that the maid only need to check the robot's work and finish up the details.  To sum it up, machines don't actually displace workers unless you are looking at a particular subset of work.  Before the machines, the maid did the work while her employer (or a manager) surveyed the results.  Now the maid has taken over much of the tasks of the manager, while the machines do much of the labor.  Thus she is more productive overall, and can earn more money (by doing the same work that would have required many more maids two generations ago, perhaps by freelancing and cleaning a different client's home each day of the week rather than laboring all day every day for one rich guy) while her employer benefits from lower labor costs as well.  This doesn't actually remove jobs, because although there is less need for professional maids, the rich man still has other unmet desires.  For example, since he doesn't have to pay two maids because one is enough, now he also hires a gardener (or a landscaping company, same principle) so that he doesn't have to worry about the yard work either.  Or a poolman.  Or he buys a home theater, which employs not just engineers to design the thing, but also those factory workers; who now rather than standing on an assembly line driving two screws into the product 1000 times each workday monitors three or four screw driving robots.  Now he is an 'operator', or a 'tech'.  So the employee makes more money, performing a less (physically) demanding task; while the consumer gets an improved product at a more affordable cost.

Literally everyone in society benefits from the improvements in productivity that automation provides, from the wealthiest industrialist down to the unemployed drunkard whose beer costs half as much because the brewing process is now controlled by a computer rather than a trained brewmaster.
3843  Economy / Economics / Re: Does America Really Need More Jobs? on: September 21, 2011, 12:01:04 AM

You can blame the FED, corporatism, the welfare state, regulation, whatever you want, but in the end there is something else that is driving this disparity, something naturally occurring in a market situation. 

You assume that the 'something' is a naturally occurring force in a market situation, but you can't offer any evidence to support that.  You can't, because it's not true, and it's provablely not true.  The 'something' that is driving disparity presently isn't a naturally free market mechanism, but the long predicted side effects of intervention into the free market.  It's just taken this long to accumulate to the current crisis.  I can actually support this premise, but I don't have the time and you wouldn't likely accept it anyway, so take the above however you wish.
3844  Economy / Economics / Re: Does America Really Need More Jobs? on: September 20, 2011, 11:54:17 PM

Your examples are trivial - the types of income/employment that you list have always been in existence, they just take a different form these days thanks to computers.

Trivial to whom?  They are not trivial to those who engage in free agency in order to earn an income.  And the addition of the Internet into the mix ultimately only makes free agency more efficient, otherwise it wouldn't happen.  Higher efficiency and effectiveness in the realm of using the Internet to match up individual desires with individuals willing to fill those desires (be it shippable products, or personal labor services) only increases the market share that free agency can effectively provide.  In the beginning, the new 'TaskRabbit' type people who can make a real living will be rare and annecdotal, but over time those jobs will increase with the increasing public awareness that such a system can satisfy their needs in less expensive or less frustrating ways than are presently possible.  A decade ago, anyone making a living from home via the Internet who wasn't an accomplished author was a news article.  Today most people know someone who does or could make a living solely from home via the Internet.  Craigslist is another example of the improvement of efficiency of the Internet altering an existing market, resulting in it's massive expansion compared to the prior model.  In the case of Craigslist, the local market of used goods is what changed.  Not only did Craigslist improve the advertising of yard sales, it permitted sellers of single used items to avoid the need for a yard sale or the purchase of a classified ad in a local newspaper.  Thus allowing those people looking for a deal on a used item that is impractical to ship (think used refrigerator) to find sellers locally.  I have an android app that scans Craigslist for me, looking for items that match keywords, so that I can be quick to reply to any such ad that I should be interested it within a few minutes.  I know that I'm not the only person to use such a thing, because I've been beaten to the item by a matter of minutes in the past.  Search Craigslist for refrigerators and you will find a number of ads that ask too much for what they are selling, because the good deals are claimed quickly and those ads are removed.


  Freelance income still is reported to the government - its not like officials and economists are blind to the fact that people sell shit on ebay.

Sure, they are aware that stuff sells on Ebay, but that is only an example.  The second hand market is legally taxable, but let me know if you find anyone who sells stuff on Craigslist in November that will even consider reporting that to the IRS come April, assuming that they even remember the transaction while sitting down to do their tax forms.  If there wasn't a check or a credit transaction involved, something I would presume to be very rare with regard to Craigslist transactions, then it didn't happen as far as the IRS will ever know.  It's only because of the third party issue that Ebay transactions are more likely to be reported and taxed.  This is the killer consumer app for Bitcoin anyway.  Whether or not Bitcoin is used in a manner intended to be anonymous by both parties, it's going to be a lot of work for a agent to tie a particular transaction to a taxable event even after identifying both parties to a BTC transfer.
3845  Economy / Economics / Re: Does America Really Need More Jobs? on: September 20, 2011, 07:06:37 PM
I can't watch this video, but if the general argument is that a "job" is a daily defined working arrangment with a legally established company, then the answer to the question posed in the title is "no".

The official metrics are flawed, in many notable ways.  But significantly in error as the "unoffical" grey market increases in relative size.  This has been the trend since the commercial explosion of the Internet since 1992.  For example, many people for the past decade or so have made a part time job out of Ebay dealings.  A minority of these people have lost their "offical" jobs in the recent recession, and are thus offically unemployed.  But if your side job was selling locally made knick-knacks on Ebay prior to the pink slip, what would you do?  I live in a city that has a local artist industry centered around glass, but for the most part the artists themselves don't sell their art on the Internet.  Several fans have filled that niche over the past several years, and I'd bet that more than a few have made a full time income out of their hobby. 

Another example is my nephew.  He recently turned 18, and like many his age have trouble finding "offical" work because they have to compete for those entry level labor jobs with older and more experienced adults who were laid off from higher skilled jobs.  That is not to say that he doesn't work.  He takes one off labor jobs from myself, neighbors, and strangers via a website called Taskrabbit.  It's not as easy or dependable as an "official" job, and he would prefer a regular scheduled job, as there are many advantages; but he doesn't go hungry and he manages to earn enough to pay for the things that he really wants, such as gas in his car, insurance, cell service and bowling fees.
3846  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: September 20, 2011, 06:49:20 PM
There won't be a recovery without deflation.

Yes, but we have already seen some deflation, and attempts to "combat" same.  I would agree that the correction is not yet over, but to assume that we will see general signs in the overall economy (such as consumer price deflation) as opposed to deflation centered in particular industries (such as real estate and industrial commodities) is unsupportable, IMHO.


 I don't remember the 70's, but I've been advised to look forward to it: High price inflation, high unemployment, economic stagnation.

That would be the 'stagflation' that I mentioned prior.  A condition of concurrent consumer price inflation and rising middle class unemployment rates that Keynseian economy theory insists is impossible.
3847  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: September 20, 2011, 06:41:38 PM

Deflation encourages hoarding, which is only one form of saving.
It discourages debt, yes. Are you saying that we shouldn't have financial market?
I agree we must first save and then invest, but if deflation is greater than capital yields, there will be no investment at all.

There are natural counter-tendencies that limit how much deflation can occur within a given working economy.  One might argue that exceeding those limits are possible, and the results would be destruction of the working economy, but there are no cases that affirm this argument.  Deflation tends to be much milder than inflation, if only because the rate of inflation under a fiat currency is under the direct control of those who can legally (or even illegally) produce that currency, thus there is no practical limit to the inflation rate.  There is no case of deflation exceeding 10% APR under a gold standard, but there are several events of inflation exceeding 400% APR under fiat currencies.  A deflationary rate of 10% is very high, and would have some harsh effects; but an inflationary rate of 400% actually destroys the economy based upon the fiat currency.  The risks are not comparable.

No, we do not agree.  Monetary base deflation discourages imprudent capital investments.  Capital investments that deserve funding will always find it.

Price deflation discourages all investments, but there's some investments that are so good that are going to be made despite the deflation.
With 5% interest rates and 3% deflation.
Let's see some investments and loans, and if the money owner will make them or not:

7% interest loan with 3% risk premium -> No
7% interest loan with 2% risk premium -> Yes
5% interest perfect secure loan -> Yes
5% yield perfect secure investment -> No

Because unlike the 5% interest loan, the 5% perfect secure investments depreciates at 3% per year.
Seriously guys, what's wrong with my bakery example?

You're view of praxelolgy is oversimplified.  You are not alone in this error.

"Take, for just one example, Galbraith’s interpretation of Adam Smith’s notion of self-interest, an idea that is constantly misunderstood even today. Galbraith seems to believe that self-interest might not lead us to the socially optimal outcome, as the invisible-hand idea would suggest. This is a terrible misunderstanding of the role of self-interest in economics.

First, self-interest does not automatically equal greed in economic theory. It is not assumed that individuals are motivated solely by selfishness or material gain. Economics is not about the particular motivations individuals have but rather is a method of analysis. It assumes individuals attempt to maximize their welfare as they conceive it, which can be selfish, altruistic, spiteful, loyal, or even masochistic. Individuals are attempting to achieve their ends with the means they believe to be the best.

Second, institutional context matters. The rules we live under will determine whether Adam Smith’s invisible hand achieves socially beneficial outcomes or not. The invisible hand guides self-seeking individuals — people who are attempting to achieve their ends — to serve the public good, but only under the correct rules. Private property, freedom of contract, and competition are all necessary to achieve what Smith envisions with the invisible hand. As Sigler says in the review, “[T]o discuss Smith’s theory without mention of competition is to discuss Napoleon without mention of war.”

3848  Other / Off-topic / Re: I Manufacture machines that generate free electricity. A match made in heaven? on: September 20, 2011, 06:25:15 PM
It is thus theoreticly possible for such a disk, of the perfect set of size and rpm's, at an unknown resonate frequency, to draw an incrediblely small amount of momentum from the relative motion of the Earth's field spinning inside of the Sun's, even while itself sitting on the face of the Earth and not in any real motion relative to that field from a macro viewpoint.  This would be akin to those quantum level 'eddys' that plague researchers trying to develop room temp superconductors.
1. Lots of ifs and buts, not even a theoretical model, just a make-believe story about how the Sun's magnetic field can have higher intensities than our Earth's magnetic field at ground level. Allow me to smirk.

Higher field densities are not required....

"Stefan Hartwig, Martin Burghoff, and colleagues at the National Metrology Institute of Germany have now discovered that in fields of 1 µT and lower, water responds to a magnetic perturbation even faster still. To see the increased relaxation rates, they had to measure water’s magnetization in fields less than 1/500 the intensity of Earth’s geomagnetic field—a feat made possible in part by a superconducting quantum interference device. Hartwig and company haven’t yet pinpointed the detailed mechanism underlying the fast spin dynamics, but they suspect that coupling between H+ and 17O nuclei plays a role."

2. You seem to conveniently forget or knowingly exclude the magnetic field depletion from the "fuel" magnets that are constantly moving through powerful magnetic fields. These magnets will decay their power orders of magnitude faster than your perfectly aligned solar magnetosphere resonating positive feedback field increase. Do you understand this?

I understand this, but I disagree that this is the root source of any unexplained energies.  The breakdown of the magnets is certainly a drop in the potential energy of the magnet, but there is no explaination as to how the slow collapse of the magnetic field can transfer it's energy to the momentum of the device in a net positive way.  The individual molecules are equally likely to dump their magnetic energy in a net negative way, simply because when the molecules lose their magnetic alignment with the field, they can lose it in any direction whatever.  Said another way, the failure of the individual molecules that comprise the magnet are just as likely to oppose the overall flow of energy of the device as to contribute to it, and there is no way to bias the process in favor of the desired flow.


3. Supercooled materials, or even a supercooled machine of similar design COULD work at close to 100% efficiency, but certainly not over, again, same reasons as above. A non over-unity machine is useless, and maintaining supercooled temperatures requires significant power. It's useful if you want to transmit power over long distances, but this use scenario is not profitable.

What use scenario are you referring to?  I offered a general explaination as to why we we will never see horizontal maglev flywheels used as storage devices for electric vehicles.  I never claimed that this effect was large enough to develop an over-parity "free energy" type of device.  I did imply that, should this ever be accomplished, men in black suits are going to kick the inventors' doors down and they are going to fully understand the term "extralegal enforcement".

3849  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: September 20, 2011, 12:55:56 AM
Then there will be a large increase of currency in the market due to QE1 & QE2.
I believe QE* were immediately effective. The talking point purpose may have been to stimulate the economy back to the Greenspan bubble. But in actuality, they effectively kept core CPI above zero, lowered interest rates while allowing the Treasury to increase the bond issuance. More to the point, QE* provided a BASE/M0 money supply on reserve as banks and other financial institutions massively deleveraged M3. Unlike non-debt based economies such as Weimar Germany or Zimbabwe, in our modern economy, credit collapse evaporates the majority of money. The printing of M0 was in the area of 3 trillion which pales in comparison to the trillions of M2 and incalculably less than higher (M3+) derivatives which <pooof> no longer exist. Since the end of 2008, M3 (on the books) collapsed 20% and has only this year come out of negative growth. M0 (printed money) is just the 'stuff' you get when you liquidate your assets, like the soot from an extinguished lamp.

I can't contest anything you say above, but I think that the price inflation will not be truly felt until a recovery is in the works for real.  Most of that QE money, as you said, is sitting in bank reserves because they can't or won't lend right now.  Once that sentiment changes back into a 'boom' mentality, M3 will shoot for the Moon like never before, and that is when the majority of the price inflation is going to be noticable.  In the meantime, deflation is the dominate theme, due to the contraction of M3 outpacing the expansion of M0 and M1.  I'm still not ruling out a 'stagflationary' period in the near term, however.


In so many words, I agree that hyperinflation is not in the United States' immediate future. However, volatility will go wild. Real inflation, including food and energy, is already in the double digits annually. Europe is another story entirely.

I don't even think hyperinflation is in the US's distant future, because as much as I like Ron Paul as a candidate I consider the odds of his success (or anyone else's) at forcing meaningful reform or control upon the FedReserve to be on par with the odds that the world will actually end precisely on December 21st, 2012.  Which is to say, not very good.  The last actual president who tried to reform the monetary system was assassinated about a month after the attempt.  Corrolation is not causation, and I'm sceptical of a connection anyway, but I'm never going to rule it out either.
3850  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I need cash for my bitcoin on: September 19, 2011, 07:28:30 PM
Not so.  The MadHatter was logged in one week ago, but is not in the habit of posting anymore and may not respond to PM's.  He doesn't send cash through the mail because he has been burned doing so.  Basicly, you can trust him to honor his agreements, or bugger off if he doesn't know you.  I'm sure if you could meet him in person, he would consider buying your bitcoins for cash. 
3851  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: September 19, 2011, 07:12:54 PM

I'm not talking specifically about deflation in bitcoin. I'm just here to remove the "deflation is good/innocuous" dogma. Deflation is very bad for the health of the financial market. I expect the dollar to hyperinflate soon.

We are likely to have some pretty strong price inflation in the next couple of years, if the economy actually starts to recover and people go back to work and pay off those debts without defaulting.  Then there will be a large increase of currency in the market due to QE1 & QE2.  However, hyperinflation is something altogether different.  A currency can, and many have, suffered very large annual inflation rates for a couple of years without imploding; but hyperinflation is always and everywhere a political event.  The Federal Reserve exists for the benefit of the member banks, not for the benefit of the US government or the public.  So long as the Fed exists, and continues to manage monetary policy independently of Congress, then hyperinflation simply isn't in the cards.  That would destroy the golden goose, as far as the bankers are concerned.  The banks would rather see an inflation rate of 20% for a few years and crush the market economy than surrender the power of control over monetary policy.  Congress will have to take it by force, and it won't prove easy.  Still, things don't look secure for the Fed's charter considering how well Ron Paul's retoric has infultrated the Republican base this year.  If Congress cancels the Fed's charter, or takes over monetary policy in some other manner, then hyperinflation is a possibility.  Otherwise, forget it.  And even as bad as inflation could get in the US, it's likely to not be as bad as inflation might be under the Euro or in China.  The US FRN is the safe haven of soverign wealth funds and unscrupulous political officials the world over, and any net influx of captial to the US FRN is going to support it's buying power until such time as the influx tapers off.  But sooner or later, significant price inflation in the US is already a certainty.


Anyway, do we agree that deflation discourages real capital investment?

No, we do not agree.  Monetary base deflation discourages imprudent capital investments.  Capital investments that deserve funding will always find it.
3852  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: inquiry about a spherical pool in vacuum - how many "bicoin nodes" does it need on: September 18, 2011, 10:37:21 PM
are we seriously more paranoid an environment than torrenter / KAD crowd ?

Some of us, yes.  Bear in mind, we are dealing with real value here; the value of intellectual property is theoretical and not relevant to the torrentors themselves.
3853  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: inquiry about a spherical pool in vacuum - how many "bicoin nodes" does it need on: September 17, 2011, 01:37:48 AM

If you can't manually force persistent connections to the top mining pools (which you probably can't),

You can try with the -connect flag.  If you know the pool's ip address and they are accepting inbound connections.
3854  Economy / Goods / Re: Selling the Hottest Pepper in the world! Cheap! on: September 16, 2011, 04:47:29 AM

The product I offer you today are Naga Jalokia (Ghost) peppers from India,

When I was a Junior in high school, I had a friend of mine who was notorious for bad ideas.  His father traveled for his work, and brought some of these bastards home with him.  My friend brought them to school, and tried to tell everyone that they were "only a little hotter than a halapeno".  Everyone else just said, "I'll try one after you do".  However, I was a bit crazier.

So I grabbed one, popped it into my mouth and started chewing it before he had a chance to stop me.  I chewed it up, and swallowed it.  I then looked at his shocked face, shrugged my shoulders and said, "it's sweet".  Then it hits me, and I screamed like a little girl.  It was oilly, and sticks to the inside surfaces so that once it got going I could literally feel my mouth and all the way down into my stomach.  I ended up comandeering a water fountain, and the principal forced my buddy to go down to the cafeteria and buy me every milk that he could afford.  I slowly drank about a half gallon of milk over the next two hours, and I had blisters on the inside of my mouth for a week.  And I still suspect that I lost some hearing in my left ear that day.

On the plus side, my head cold was gone.
3855  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin mentioned at congressional hearing. on: September 16, 2011, 04:34:08 AM
Did he really meant Bitcoin, or was it just "bit coins" as a generic term for digital currencies without him even knowing about Bitcoin itself?

I think he meant our good old Bitcoin.

Yes, he did - Larry White is very familiar with Bitcoin.  Ron Paul, on the other hand, may not be as familiar.

The Pauls may not be as familiar with Bitcoin as some, but they are aware of it.  But they don't need to really grok it, they have aides for that stuff.  They don't update their own blogs, either; and I seriously doubt that either one tweets.
3856  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin mentioned at congressional hearing. on: September 16, 2011, 04:26:56 AM
like 2033 or something check the graph ^^^

When talking about a peak in X commodity it means a peak in the extraction rate, not depletion. Also depletion will be around year ~2144, not 2033.

Thank God!  A forum member who actually takes the time to completely understand a subject before answering questions!  As oppossed to the majority that takes a look at a truncated visual aid, never noticing that it's truncated.
3857  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin mentioned at congressional hearing. on: September 14, 2011, 01:21:45 PM
This "Free competition in currency act" will never pass.

Although it would be good for Bitcoin in some ways, it is a preposterous idea that would never work.

U.S. Federal Reserve Notes are backed more on our economics than on anything else, and if our government allows other "Free competition" it would basically make our money worthless. Our money is worth what it is because it is our money, and it does not take a genius to see that this kind of thing is really not in our country's best interest. Ron Paul only mentioned Bitcoin because it fits into his fundamentalist agenda. He is an extremist and although his small group of supporters are really loud and good at making themselves look big, when it comes down to it, they are a small group who carry little votes.

It will never pass because it would work.  It wouldn't make the US FRN worthless, it would simply expose the present reality.  The US FRN is already worthless.  It wouldn't be chosen by a market economy once the threat of force that 'legal tender' laws imply are removed.  Bitcoin would not likely be the dominate alternative, however.  Bitcoin exists in a niche because of coercive legal tender laws.  Digital gold or silver certs would almost certainly dominate.  There would be no practical reason for Bitcoin to exist.
3858  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Don't Black People Use Bitcoins? on: September 13, 2011, 05:06:05 AM

PS: Hockey should be banned. And NASCAR. And boycott Lord of the Rings. And no conventions in Argentina unless there are 50% blacks in the audience. And don't watch the Jetsons. And quit reading the Watchtower and Awake.

3859  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Don't Black People Use Bitcoins? on: September 12, 2011, 10:57:13 PM
The title of this thread is akin to asking, "why don't Jews us the Internet?"

If you just thought, "Wait, What!?  How the hell would you know that?" then you just got my point.
3860  Other / Off-topic / Re: I Manufacture machines that generate free electricity. A match made in heaven? on: September 09, 2011, 08:32:55 PM
Wow Moonshadow you just upped this thread to a whole 'nother level.  What is your opinion on these theories:

1) Mars had intelligent life on it, millions of years ago, that reached an advanced stage of civilization far beyond our own.  Much metal was mined and brought to the surface.  But science destroyed the magnetic field of Mars that protected it from the Sun.  The atmosphere and life on that planet was destroyed without the magnetic field to protect it.  All turned to rust and eroded to dust, leaving no trace.

I'd bet that Mars had life on it at one point, but I have no opinion about the intelligent part.  I'm still not sure that there is intelligent life on Earth.  As a aside, what if humanity evolved on Mars, and we are refugees.  That would explain the missing link issue.  I have no idea, just speculating.

The atmosphere of Mars was most likely lost because the molten (reactor) core failed criticality, and thus plate technonics failed.  The Earth wouldn't have an atmostphere to speak of either without the replacement effects of volcanos.  Given enough time, the vast majority of gases would be absorbed into chemical molecules until the pressure was no longer sufficient to maintain liquid water, at which point the oceans would slowly boil away into near space.  This would have occurred over millinia, and can't reasonablely be called a catastrophe, as it would have been long forseeable by intelligent creatures.  Can't be stopped, can be avoided.  It's possible that the life cycles plants and animals could slow down this process of atmostphere loss, but I'd doubt it.

2) Tesla was trying to build a power generation/storeage device that used the entire planet earth as the resonator, essentially turning earth into a tesla coil.  Not only did he cause an explosion at his Wizard Tower lab while doing experiments on this project, but he also caused a giant explosion in siberia when the huge electrical currents exploded underground fuel deposits.

To say that Tesla was a mad genius was an understatement.  The idea of turning the entire Earth into a tesla coil begs the question, what then is your low-energy sink?  In the case of a normal Tesla coil, it's the Earth and the energy source is the ambiant electromagnetic spectrum.  As far as the Earth as a whole, there is a substantial ambiant electromagnetic specturm to draw from, but where then would it go?  You still need a flow of energy in order to draw useful work.

The story about the explosion in siberia that destroyed his massive attempt to build a tesla coil, although plausible considering we now know that there is a great deal of natural gas in Siberia, still sounds like a cover story to myself.  The tower was destroyed, but it was more likely that it was destroyed by actual explosives.  There were many people who were afraid of Tesla actually succeeding, in much the same way that people today are afraid of the supercollider succeeding in creating a naked singularity.  Silly, to be sure, but fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator; and Tesla had some well heeled enemies anyway.  Not the least of which was the founder of General Electic.

And natural gas doesn't explode while in the ground, because there is no oxygen.  If there were enough oxygen to burn it, then the natural gas wouldn't have formed as it did.
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