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4441  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A legitimately novel and revolutionary idea for a new crypto. (not copypasta) on: December 05, 2013, 11:49:29 PM
It is just a simple split with the increase of the complexity that brings and I can't see many benefits.

 Undecided

if it could work it would have huge benefits. with bitcoin someone with sufficient hashing power can save up a longer chain and then publish it thus reversing the transaction. with the split in responsibilities this would become highly unlikely since the miner would have to be in collusion with the winner of the transaction. it would make for secure transactions in one or two confirmations. additionally it could work well even with really fast block times. not to get too technical but the reason why very fast block times would be a bad idea for bitcoin is the shorter the block time the more advantage is gained from low latency relative to hashing power. This would encourage centralization. With a scheme like this the miners could be much more centralized without it creating a problem for reasons mentioned earlier in this paragraph.
4442  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: I want to jump on board! Just not sure which route is best to go? on: December 05, 2013, 07:03:32 PM
Tech savy with your run of the mill computer... not connecting to a mass of computers to share your GPU for a chance at getting a percentage of shares for bitcoins. New to me. Everywhere you turn one person says this and one person says that. That's true of most forums but I haven't found any straightforward here's what you do to mine bitcoin. Just looking for some specifics on WHAT TO DO! A method of sorts. A decent setup...... Just gathering intel =)

you want to know the truth?

step 1) get a job
step 2) get a paycheck
step 3) go to localbitcoins.com
step 4) wait patiently until you either get rich or lose it all
4443  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A legitimately novel idea for a new crypto. (presently presumed broken) on: December 05, 2013, 06:57:01 PM
Seems like instead of people spending electricity on mining, they would be spending it on making as many transactions as possible to mine the coins. If there is a 1% chance of earning a block reward by making 100 transactions, and the block reward is more than the cost of 100 transactions, then the users will make those transactions to earn money.

In the end, the sum of the transaction fees will be close to the price of a transaction block.

If a transaction block reward is $50, and you look back at the past day, someone could pay for the majority of the days transactions and 51% attack. Much more feasible than paying for 51% of the hardware used to mine.

People who author transaction blocks would be compensated with transaction fees only. But as it says in the title, this idea is broken for other reasons.
4444  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A legitimately novel idea for a new crypto. (presently presumed broken) on: December 05, 2013, 06:51:36 PM
Issuance:
This part is going to get a lot of my fellow libertarians in a tizzy but please bear with me until i finish the argument. The block reward for miners would never be lowered, it would be a constant amount for ever. This would not lead to endless inflation i promise. You have to remember that each new issuance would represent a smaller rate of inflation of the over all money supply than the previous issuance. So for example the second block doubles the money supply, but the third only increases it by 1/3 and the fourth by only 1/4. This is much less inflationary than a scheme that, for example, increases the money supply at a rate of 1% of outstanding issuance. Furthermore at some point in the future an equilibrium would be reached where the marginal value of a unit of currency would be less than the marginal value of taking the necessary precautions to secure it from loss. In other words, at some point in the future, the amount of currency lost due to carelessness would match almost 1 for 1 the rate of new currency being issued.

I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to comment that this is a good insight.  It's funny the thing that originally attracted me to Bitcoin was the finite supply.  Now I don't see that as being as big of an issue due to the phenomenon you are describing here.  It's analogous to slowly increasing the gold supply (through mining, nuclear transmutation, space exploration and mining, etc.) - not enough to destabilize the currency.

I was reviewing part of the original Bitcoin whitepaper this morning and noticed that Satoshi actually referred to each block as generating "a coin."  That would've been an interesting way for things to run: 1 BTC generated every 10 minutes, indefinitely.

this argument i made is i think correct, but it is rather abstract, i fear that it would be lost on most people. Due to strategic considerations, for the first crypto ever, perhaps satoshi made the right choice. like you said it was the finite supply that got you into it.
4445  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A legitimately novel and revolutionary idea for a new crypto. (not copypasta) on: December 05, 2013, 06:40:10 PM

the problem that causes this idea to be broken is that transaction block creators could include only their own keys in the block inorder to increase their chances of winning the right to mint new blocks in the future.

I see... #nods

As I understood, if a miner have to endorse a transaction block, people have to wait for miners blocks to trust the transaction block?

Thats right. You could think of it like miners are minting empty containers and only the lottery winner can fill that container with transactions. If entries into that lottery could consist of every person who ever made a transaction than it would be HUGELY decentralized and you could literally trust a 2 confirmation transaction since it would be so unlikely that the winning miners and lottery winners could all be colluding with each other for any length of time. additionally since miners are not the ones authoring transactions a high orphan rate would very marginally reduce the security of the network meaning that you could have blocks coming in MUCH faster. it would be the holy grail of a decentralized crypto with trustworthy confirmations in seconds.

unfortunately like i said idk how to handle the problem of transaction block creators entering in a huge list of their own public keys instead of processing real transactions. im just going to have to keep thinking about it and in the mean time im going to work on learning how to actually make a crypto staring out with something much simpler. Im just going to work on trying to make my own hashcash implementation for now.
4446  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: A legitimately novel and revolutionary idea for a new crypto. (not copypasta) on: December 05, 2013, 04:51:32 PM
Quote
This is actually an easy problem to solve. Miners would only be including a hash of a tx block and a signature anyway, all they would have to do is include the second hash and signature as proof of deception.
What if someone decides to spam everybody sending a lot of tx blocks? Miners would have to include hundreds of proof of deception? Or only two?




yea that would be a problem, but there is no need to have "network police". The problem that was intended to solve could be solved by having miners hash transaction blocks as well as transaction blocks hashing mining blocks. then changes to the blockchain would require the re computation of the proof of work chain.

the problem that causes this idea to be broken is that transaction block creators could include only their own keys in the block inorder to increase their chances of winning the right to mint new blocks in the future.

i have an idea about how to deal with this, but it starts to lose its elegance at that point. it might be a good idea but i dont think anyone would understand my explanation a that point.
4447  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: At the last bitcoin on: December 05, 2013, 03:49:28 AM
If bitcoin were to hit its 21st million bitcoin, what do you think its price would be?

Would Litecoin be the same price as bitcoin at the time?

share your opinion.

If the we ever hit 21 million bitcoins, everyone will abandon ship, because that means that the system is broken.

It won't hit in our lifetime but in the distant future, why not?

you dont plan on living for another 130 years? i know i sure do.
4448  Economy / Economics / Re: To buy now.... or to wait? on: December 04, 2013, 09:18:16 PM
what did i tell ya? did you manage to buy in sub 800?

Unfortunately I didn't... I ended up buying 1btc at a little over $1,000. Oh well lol. Hopefully I can buy another btc early next week Smiley excited lol

I dont blame you. I wouldn't have risked missing the train over a couple of hundred dollars either.
4449  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: At the last bitcoin on: December 04, 2013, 09:15:43 PM
4450  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 05:22:51 AM
No, unless the slaves voluntarily sold themselves to slavedom, and even then I would have to consider some back door out of slavery.
I know where you are going, as I stated earlier, I have been there myself. But I can't see any practical way of doing it right now.


I dont think any anarchists are advocating going down into the basement of the whitehouse and flipping some giant frankensteinian on/off switch.

This is a false dilemma you are providing us with. Just because it isnt feasible to end statism right NOW within the next 10 seconds, doesn't mean that one must support the idea that one group of people should have the right to forcibly confiscate the property of another group.


Well, I'm no longer a hard core libertarian, so I accept a certain level of taxation.
But if a better way is presented I will support it.

And i TOTALLY support YOUR right to accept taxation. There is no problem at all with YOU accepting a certain level of taxation. The only problem that might arise, arises if you support me being taxed even though i do not accept a certain level of taxation.

Sure there is a better way. Its called dont engage in commerce with people who are not assured. This will protect you from people with normal time preferences. For protection against people with ridiculously low time preferences buy insurance.

Unfortunately that was the easy part, the hard parts are: convincing people that they do not need rulers inorder to have organized society; figuring out how to dismantle the state without hurting too many of the dependent people in the process; and finally figure out how to dismantle the state without invoking a suicidal rampage that could destroy all life on the planet (they have the weaponry to do that)
4451  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 04:12:25 AM
No, unless the slaves voluntarily sold themselves to slavedom, and even then I would have to consider some back door out of slavery.
I know where you are going, as I stated earlier, I have been there myself. But I can't see any practical way of doing it right now.

I dont think any anarchists are advocating going down into the basement of the whitehouse and flipping some giant frankensteinian on/off switch.

This is a false dilemma you are providing us with. Just because it isnt feasible to end statism right NOW within the next 10 seconds, doesn't mean that one must support the idea that one group of people should have the right to forcibly confiscate the property of another group.
4452  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: new here on: December 04, 2013, 03:39:05 AM
i am new here for bitcoin , it is fast to make coin if i buy minning stuff?
and hwo many bitcoin one day can make ?any idea?

We are in a bit of a mining equipment bubble atm. Its best to just either buy your coins or work for them.
4453  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:34:07 AM
No need to discuss. I used to be a libertarian so I know what you mean. I just slowly realized as I got older that it is as utopian as the communist societies.
Taxes are actually the simplest and easiest way to fund some things and democratic decisions are the easiest, and in some ways, fair way to decide how to distribute the taxes.
Having said that, I don't approve of the high taxes in some countrys.

if slavery was the simplest and easiest way of getting cotton would you support it?
4454  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 02:02:21 AM
What is your solution then? Hoe does your ideal  society pay for the common utilities?
Does everyone get to sponsor their own street light for example?

does everyone sponsor their own toilet paper? no they just buy it if they want it... If you want something than you buy it, if you dont than you dont. its pretty simple.

for the rare case where free rider problems could potentially cause big problems, like national defense, if you care about the cause than it becomes incumbent upon you to take non violent measures to ensure that it gets funded.

Check the database of all people who contributed, if one of your friends isnt on it than confront him about it, if he still refuses than stop being his friend and tell all of his friends and encourage them to stop being his friend. Criticism lights up the exact same part in most peoples brains that physical pain does.

If you are an employer than automatically deduct it from your employees paychecks and use it to advertise the fact that you have a patriotic company.

If you are an entrepreneur than create a social contract, not made up statist bullishit social contract, i mean an actual piece of paper with actual words on it that people can chose to sign or not sign. You could use the crowd funding esque model where the contract only kicks in if X percent of the population sign it. In that contract people who value having national defense can formally agree to economically ostracize people who do not also sign that same contract and people can be held legally accountable for violating those terms. Assuming most of the people in the world value having a national defense, this would reverse the incentives and make it not in the interest of anyone to freeride, even the people who would have been willing to.

This could go on forever and ever. There is no need to wave guns around to force people to obey you unless what you are asking them to obey is a command for them to not to attack you.

*edit* this is off topic so if you want to discuss it at length than send a pm or make a different thread.
4455  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: New Here , Am i too late for bitcoin ? on: December 04, 2013, 01:49:28 AM
Once bitcoin has replaced VISA, you'll probably not make a substantial profit of bitcoin anymore, but you'll still want to buy it because of the utility it brings.

Can the bitcoin network support the volume of transactions it would take to replace VISA or any other major credit card?  The Visa web site says they process 150 million transactions per day http://corporate.visa.com/about-visa/technology/transaction-processing.shtml.  Is there an practical upper bound on the transactions/day for the bitcoin protocol?  I imagine the block chain would get enormous very fast at that volume, but I'm still a newbie so I may be missing something.

Currently about 7 transactions/second is the Bitcoin limit, but will be increased later. Block chain is still very small, about 12 GB, it is nothing with today TB drives, and for normal person client version without blockchain downloads are avaiable like Electrum

hard drive space is not the problem. the problem is that with larger blocks is that it gives big advantages to miners with high speed internet connections and incents people to join larger pools. inotherwords it would cause bitcoin to become more centralized.

i think this problem will be solved also, but trying to brute force a solution with larger and larger blocks is probably not wise. there are proposals that could potentially make each transaction smaller and centralized but trustless off chain ledgers that use bitcoin for clearing could take over the load for smaller transactions.
4456  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: What sites do you use to track the current price of bitcoin? on: December 04, 2013, 12:25:11 AM
bitcoinwisdom.com

preev.com
4457  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: New Here , Am i too late for bitcoin ? on: December 04, 2013, 12:21:43 AM
Well look around. How many gas stations accept them? How many major retailers accept them? How many of your friends are using them? Is your mom using them? Wink don't worry you are still early to this party.
4458  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: December 03, 2013, 07:42:32 PM
Hi! It was me who got scammed on the forum... I fucking try to be usefull for the community, try to be part of the NXT story... think that I have someone on the other side whom I can trust...and then they steal my money. Sad

I know that you are reading this. And I hope you are now happy about the 1000 dollars you stole from me. And... maybe it is nothing to you, but it was all I had. Thank you!
I barely lost all my hope in all this online stuff Sad

I could cry... really.

please tell us who the scammer was so that we can be safe.
4459  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: Trading Thread for Nxt :: Descendant of Bitcoin on: December 03, 2013, 07:22:13 PM
It's abit sketchy to base prices off Dgex, as it's so obvious someone is manipulating prices there Tongue
I'm all for Nxt growing but yeah, thats not right.

yes thats my thought also.
4460  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: Trading Thread for Nxt :: Descendant of Bitcoin on: December 03, 2013, 06:53:43 PM
How much for 100k NXT?
According to dgex exchange 2btc...

EDIT: Someone just sold @0.000012
EDIT2: Someone just bought @0.00002 again

 Tongue

thats a bunch of bologna. im just going to wait patiently for something more reasonable. there is a lot of potential for a 100% proof of stake coin but the code is still closed source for christ sake.
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