Completely hiding the transaction is the best way. Anonymity is preferred but that probably won't work for long if it ever works. |
|
|
|
That's good but you still limit the amount you can trade. If you trade $9,999 with him then you can never trade with him again or likely make another trade to anyone because you've become a money services business.
If you are trading with strangers over 10k a year than you are opening yourself up for problems. Either follow all regulations, or have "affiliates" conduct multiple trades on your behalf. Of course you're risking it. Having a network of affiliates would require paying them I assume. That would negate the value in LBC trades. Although, I do like the idea if you were in the Starbucks or wherever and secretly overseeing the trade. |
|
|
|
Here is my suggested version: Hello, pleased to meet you. Before we proceed I want to make sure you understand that I do not support or condone any illegal activities or money laundering with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a digital asset that I am willing to trade for currency as long as you obey all applicable laws. If you mention or insinuate any illegal use than I will immediately cease all trade with you now and in the future.
As I am merely trading bitcoins with you as a favor for your convenience I will not perform trades that exceed 10k dollars in value of the assets.
That's good but you still limit the amount you can trade. If you trade $9,999 with him then you can never trade with him again or likely make another trade to anyone because you've become a money services business. |
|
|
|
There's a market for a localbitcoins phone app to put you in touch with people in your area and disclaimers can be pretty effective, this is regulators trying to force there way into the process and they can GTFO,.
It might help and there's no reason to not have it. But this is war and we need to arm ourselves as best we can. Why should I go to a regulated exchange and have them gouge me with fees? I've traded over 10k in btc before. That's pretty easy to do when the price is in the $800 range. What are we going to do when and if 1 btc = $10k? We need to do something to protect ourselves. |
|
|
|
In reality their is plenty of ambiguity to be interpreted between the different laws and department regulations that there is no clear cut guidance as to how to be sure you won't be in trouble. Additionally states have a history of not even following their own rules and regulations in letter and /or spirit.
This being said all the cases have suggested that every targeted sting has focused on very large sums of money - over 10k and the buyer making it known that the BTC would be used for illegal purposes to the seller.
Thus...if you simply limit your sales to transactions under 10k and immediately turn away anyone insinuating the illegal activity than you will likely be fine. Does the IRS and police go after yard sales for not having a proper business license or reporting income on a regular basis?
That whole speech is probably unnecessary and may even hurt you because it sounds like you are deliberately trying to manipulate the system and would look bad to a investigator and/or jury.
I don't think so. Playing the recording for a jury would sound like you had no intention of supporting illegal activity and were actively trying to stop it from happening. |
|
|
|
It's too off putting and too much of a hassle. How can Bitcoin ever go mainstream if stuff like this happens? it sucks that we cannot freely trade.
For all I know they have succeed into making people afraid to trade anymore, im not using LocalBitcoins again.. maybe decentralized exchanges are the way to go? or we need legit regulations? (Gemini)
It is a hassle. Fighting for freedom usually is. This puritan dictatorship is not going to stop me. |
|
|
|
Not a bad idea, a judge might say don't be so stupid but it probably stands up technically. Another option may be terms of use for localbitcoins or their escrow service so anyone saying they intend using the coins for illegal purposes make themselves liable for prosecution and on the other side anyone selling has no responsibility for the way the coins they sold are used.
That might help but the real issue seems to be getting trapped by money transmitter laws. Acting as an illegal money transmitter and knowing you are selling a large amount to drug traffickers is a double whammy. No statement on LBC is going to work for that. |
|
|
|
Under what jurisdiction are you?
Instead of apples you might change to silver or magic card or something that looks less jokish, if allowed wherever you are.
The Imperial Republic of Ameristan (USA). You can make the apple whatever you like. |
|
|
|
|
The recent arrest of BurtW, the previous arrests and my own use of LBC made me start thinking about safety. How can we exchange bitcoins between individuals safely if trading them is illegal? Are there legal ways to trade btc for dollars? Are the arrests simply because the seller knew the illegal intent of the buyer? Are the arrests because btc can't be sold for fiat without an expensive license? Is their a limit to the dollar amount that can be traded legally without a license? I want to use Bitcoin but I don't want to go to jail what can I do?
It seems to me that all of the problems stem from trading bitcoins for dollars and prior knowledge of the illegal use of the btc after the sale. This seems easy to fix. Ensure that when you first introduce yourself during the trade the first thing you say is this:
Hello, pleased to meet you.
Because of the recent problems with LBC, I need to tell you something before we begin and I need you to wait until I finish speaking before you respond.
I am recording this conversation remotely.
Anything you say about illegal activity will be reported to the proper authorities and stop the sale so please do not talk about any illegal activity.
I do not sell bitcoins for dollars. I trade bitcoins for apples. I brought a sample of my favorite apple with me. (Point to apple)
I would appreciate a donation to my favorite charity as a reward for my time.
You can bring the apples to me later don't worry about having them now.
How many bitcoins would you like? He tells you the amount (let's say one btc) and you tell him with a $237 donation to your favorate charity presented to you now to deliver to the charity that will be 2 apples.
If he agrees, he hands you the "donation" and you transfer the btc.
Does anyone see a problem with this? Would this work? It's very sad that we have come to the point of camouflaging our trades but I see no other way.
|
|
|
|
You should boycott Bitcoin. It's flawed because of doughnuts. Not the regular round ones with sprinkles because I like those. The long ones shaped like logs are fucking everything up. Those maple flavored ones too. Maple is a pancake flavor. You don't put it in doughnuts.
This is a good reason to boycott, much better than the OP's That's what I'm thinkin. |
|
|
|
I agree with OP. But I suppose its the lesser of two evils. The worst case scenario is nobody is talking about it at all.
-B-
I'd rather no one talk about it at all than to have people believe Bitcoin users are all drug taking child molesters. The only way for it to go main stream now is for the entire country to turn into a collection of Bitcoin loving junkie child molesters. |
|
|
|
|
Gates is so passive aggressive. I don't think he really believes in Bitcoin at all but the best way to make people believe him is to feign support and then jab at every turn. That's the worst kind of supporter. They're more believable because they really "like Bitcoin" so if they're saying there's a problem it must be true.
|
|
|
|
Lol, it wouldn't be a surprise. If a banker gets struck by lightning things could turn around fast  Now you're on the right path. How do we fake the hand of God in this situation? lol I'm sure I've one of those diode-capacitor ladder thingies around somewhere, 200k volts on the top of JPM-C's door frame should do the trick Might have to push one back through a few times to get a good photo though, fast stuff that lightning. ROFLMAO If you can work out a way to have his body discovered holding a potato that grew in the shape of the Virgin Mary with the eyes bleeding it's a guaranteed win. |
|
|
|
I'm not so sure. If you were sitting at that round table, wouldn't you ask how he was able to pay those kind of returns? I asked him a few times in threads here way before that meeting. I accused him of using the money for drug trade because that's the only business that could promise those kind of returns and not be a complete fraud. I would have been asking that question before I said hello. I think by the time they all met every one of them knew it was a ponzi. I think one of the reasons for the meet up was to keep them in line and moving forward with the plan. That means there are more arrests pending.
Pirateat40 told people he was daytrading, he even crashed the Bitcoin price at one point live on IRC to try and convince people he was earning lots from trading. I honestly think that at least some of the people sitting at that table didn't know what was going on, IIRC some of the PPT owners reported the scheme to the SEC once it was over and their statements were used against pirate in court. In fact, IIRC some of them claim to have lost money due to pirate. The indictment against BurtW doesn't mention anything about a ponzi, passthrus or anything, it says he was selling Bitcoins as a business (not selling his own personal coins or selling significant volumes) without a license and that he sold Bitcoins to a person whom he knew was going to commit illegal activity with them. So I don't think it's related to the PPT's. Whether they knew or not, they still might have been placed on a watch list and tracked. If you watch someone long enough you will see them commit a crime. It may not be related to the PPTs directly or at all. He could just be really unlucky or maybe it's simply a case of poetic justice. |
|
|
|
Lol, it wouldn't be a surprise. If a banker gets struck by lightning things could turn around fast Now you're on the right path. How do we fake the hand of God in this situation? lol |
|
|
|
I often suspect the mindlessness of the sheep is much overrated, folks will take so much only mumbling to themselves but saying nothing, push a bit harder and they'll say out loud but do nothing, harder again and they stand up and speak out and from there things can avalanche very quickly once folks realise they're not alone. This is a sleeping daemon in society, issues generations old and believed long forgotten can suddenly wake up and engulf those blinded by the arrogance of power.
Maybe but I think it's more likely that they will go to church Sunday morning and pray for divine intervention and do nothing. |
|
|
|
The American public is a brainwashed news whore that believes every story they're told if a reporter is the one saying it. All this bad press bombing the national media constantly will ensure Bitcoin remains a tool of the fringe extremists. The moral majority will continue to believe that Bitcoin is that "funny money" used by drug dealers and criminals.
I think the media will change its tune once the BTC landscape is a tool of wall street. With the Winkle-twats 'regulated' exchange due to launch soon it might not be too long before the media does a miraculously u turn. Look at Bill Gate's comments the other day. I don't know dude, these people are pretty stupid. 83% of these idiots believe a 2000 year old fairy tale and actually think some dead guy is coming to take them to a cloud where they will wear white robes and listen to Barry Manilow for infinity. If these people followed what's really been happening on Wall Street for the last few decades it wouldn't exist anymore. These are the people that open their wallets and applaud government bailouts of major corporations and big banks. You think they're going to notice a little ETF and think it's a game changer? You have made me doubt my own statement . My point is though that if the media changes it tune then the sheep will follow. I suspect if the money that backs media ends up having a stake in BTC then the media will change its tune causing the sheeple to change their tunes. I actually think something in the middle where it will be like gold. Most of the time the media will bash it, the big money buys low and then once the big money wants to offload the media all of sudden will be talking about it like its the opportunity of a lifetime  . My 2c's We can only hope you're right. |
|
|
|
The American public is a brainwashed news whore that believes every story they're told if a reporter is the one saying it. All this bad press bombing the national media constantly will ensure Bitcoin remains a tool of the fringe extremists. The moral majority will continue to believe that Bitcoin is that "funny money" used by drug dealers and criminals.
I think the media will change its tune once the BTC landscape is a tool of wall street. With the Winkle-twats 'regulated' exchange due to launch soon it might not be too long before the media does a miraculously u turn. Look at Bill Gate's comments the other day. I don't know dude, these people are pretty stupid. 83% of these idiots believe a 2000 year old fairy tale and actually think some dead guy is coming to take them to a cloud where they will wear white robes and listen to Barry Manilow for infinity. If these people followed what's really been happening on Wall Street for the last few decades it wouldn't exist anymore. These are the people that open their wallets and applaud government bailouts of major corporations and big banks. You think they're going to notice a little ETF and think it's a game changer? |
|
|
|
I like that they always have nice pink nipples and areolas. I hate those really dark ones that look burned up like asshole skin. rofl  |
|
|
|
|
The American public is a brainwashed news whore that believes every story they're told if a reporter is the one saying it. All this bad press bombing the national media constantly will ensure Bitcoin remains a tool of the fringe extremists. The moral majority will continue to believe that Bitcoin is that "funny money" used by drug dealers and criminals.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
