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4481  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Silkroad Down? on: June 22, 2011, 10:17:30 PM
It's down for upgrades and security fixes.  Will be for a bit longer, according to the (presumed) owner, who posted as much a few days ago.
4482  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Hypothetical Bitcoin client question on: June 22, 2011, 10:16:18 PM
Yes, it's A.  The client doesn't care that you are sending your coins to your own address, the transaction still has to be included into a block just the same.
4483  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How to run an Anarchy on: June 22, 2011, 10:08:46 PM
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feeded by many competitive forces rather than just one.

So essentially you're saying that there still is something like a police. Would it consist of volunteers or would they get paid? If it's the latter, who would pay them and what would happen to people who don't pay them

A bit of both, actually.  Most Americans are not aware that this is how it already works in 'commonwealth' states, such as my home state of Kentucky.  There are the taxpayer funded police forces, the county sherrif's offices and the state troopers' office, which are paid for with county and state taxes respectively.  But there are also the police forces that are paid by private enterprise and a 'reserve' contingent of the county sherrif's deputy corps that is largely a volunteer force, much like a volunteer fire department.  Granted, there is much division of labor in these police forces, volunteers never patrol for example.  The privately funded police force is usually overseen, (or perhaps "regulated" would be a better term, since as a matter of law and fact, they are militias) by the county Constable's office.  To use my own city as an example, there is the Sherrif's office, which is the police force that most people are aware of and the most visable, but there are also two independent Constables.  Now, the two county constables are elected positions, but they are not taxpayer funded positions.  So, in effect, those positions are two governmentally recognized private police forces in each county.  The actual constable isn't usually even a state licenced police officer, but the owner of the business that manages the private police.  It works, more or less, like a temp agency does for unskilled labor, but for certified police that take contract jobs.  Have you ever seen a cop hanging out inside a bank lobby?  In the US, these cops are usually off-duty sherriff's deputies looking for a bit of part time work, and the bank can contract for a cop to suit up and literally hang out all day, but they cannot (normally) contract with the cop directly due both to anti-corruption rules and police union rules.  Instead, the bank contracts for the cop's time via the county constable's office.  If you look up the history of the work "constable", the concept of a for-hire roughneck with state recognized police powers comes from olde Brittanica.  So this isn't even a new idea for former colonies of the British Empire. 
4484  Economy / Economics / Re: BTC hit 120 PLN, (217/156 as valuable as MtGox high) - did anyone notice? on: June 22, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
Thank you for your input gentlemen, but I fail to see how your bickering will help us achieve our objective.

And what would our objective be?
4485  Economy / Economics / Re: BTC hit 120 PLN, (217/156 as valuable as MtGox high) - did anyone notice? on: June 22, 2011, 09:40:26 PM
so there's some opportunity for some arbitrage?
1. Buy bitcoins in USD
2. Sell bitcoins in PLN
3. Convert PLN to USD (hopefully this doesn't eat up all the profits)
4. profit!

Arbitrage is limited by the difficulty in actually buying bitcoins with US $.  If you don't already have the bitcoins, you're probably out of luck.  Personally, I wouldn't want either Pounds or Euros.  I'd rather have US $, if those are my choices.
4486  Economy / Economics / Re: BTC hit 120 PLN, (217/156 as valuable as MtGox high) - did anyone notice? on: June 22, 2011, 09:38:01 PM

It seems polish people are more confident in bitcoin than americans, they have a higher peak (yes, I did conversions :/), and currently, even when most places are low, are trading at about the same value as Mt Gox traded at before the hax flash crash thingy)! Smiley

Even us British people are more confident than TH's current value, BTC at ~10GBP, which is ~16/14 as valuable as TH!


Poland is closer the to economic abyss, at the present time, than the United States.  At least that is how it looks from my POV.  The US's turn will come, but not till after the European Economic Union implodes, which might happen before the end of Summer.  If not, it certainly will next Winter, once the Russians start price gouging for natural gas again.  Pray for a mild Winter, or the Germans might be high-stepping through main streets across Europe once again, just looking for heating fuel.  Lord knows that neither the Greeks nor the French have the fortitude to do anything more than burn their own cities and drink away the bad memories.
4487  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 09:24:06 PM
You can't eliminate any 'coercion' that may derive from self-ownership.

But we can have different definitions of property and therefore ownership

Let's get back to basics.  Does a person own himself?
4488  Other / Politics & Society / Re: An Agorist Company on: June 22, 2011, 09:22:43 PM
Is living in a state implicit consent to be governed and if not why.  Maybe I'm a little dense but I'm not sure how the restaurant analogy applies to a broader social contract.

"My house my rules."

vs.

"Your house my rules."

It's customary for people to expect to pay for food they order in a restaurant. It would be hard to claim that you didn't know that was the custom. However, secession is what made the USA possible. It's just as possible for people to remain being governed or secede. There are two customs, though one is more popular than the other, it's still something that has to be made explicit.

Maybe someone should have reminded Lincoln of that.

Some did.  That's why he suspended habius corpus and imprisioned his detractors in the Northern states.  What, didn't learn about that in public school?
4489  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
Then they are still free to start their own society or leave and seek out an existing one more to their own liking.  The fiction book, The Diamond Age explores this concept with depth

Well, I do like Neal Stephenson, and I actually think that is his best book - even beats Cryptonomicon and Snow Crash in my head, but this still does not resolve the question of me not having the choice to leave, or me being in a different society but the lib society is infringing on me, etc


You can't even come up with a condition that a lib society fails to grant you the choice to leave, or how a lib society could actually be infringing upon yourself.  If you violate a known libertarian 'law', such as kill someone in the act of attempting to possess material objects that they would have considered their property, then you are a criminal.  Other than that, if you don't like living in a libertarian society, what prevents you from leaving?  Your complaints are without merit.

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and doesn't resolve questions of actions which affect people across time and space (like say, dumping carbon into the atmosphere or launching radioactive waste into the air and putting it on the moon). Hell, even right libertarians have substantial disagreements on IP.


Why would I have to resolve those issues?  Those are questions of commons and externalities, even the ones that matter.  They are not coercive acts against you.  They are not even relevant to the question posed.

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There isn't an answer to this one,


Of cours not.  There can't be a solution posed to a problem that doesn't exist.  I you can't even frame the problem as a 'strawman', even after you have been repeatedly promted to do so, then no problem exists.  Perhaps I simply cannot invision such a conflict because I'm biased.  But then perhaps you can't frame the problem because there isn't one.
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  I would just like right-libertarians to admit that at some point their society does in fact rest upon an arbitrary definition of property and individual rights and then seeks to be coercion-free from there, but is not in fact without coercion if you don't accept the starting point. Just as left-libertarianism rests upon assumptions that right-libertarians would find coercive.

Well, it's far from arbitrary, but okay.  A libertarian society is dependent upon collective force used against those within, and without, who would choose to violate the (majority) accepted concepts of property and natural rights; compelling them to either cease or leave.  Most libs would call this the primary purpose of governments.

Happy now?
4490  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: What I want in a client on: June 22, 2011, 09:01:43 PM
Is there a wishlist for what people want in a client? If not, let's start one. Here are some of my ideas. Feel free to add:

* Encryption automatically built in. I mean, really...


Native wallet encryption is in the to-do list, but isn't already because the idea is to establish a solid reference design that code forks could base new clients from, each solving security issues in a differnet way.  This prevents a bug in one client from leaving them all exposed at once.  Monolithic software design is prone to security issues directly related to it's monolithic design.  Take Microsoft for example.

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* Multiple wallets. You can save wallets to locations of your choice. Open multiple wallets at once (for example, in tabs).


Almost certainly will happen, but don't count on it in the main client.  Again, the main client is only a working reference design.  Features not critical to the function of such a client will have to be added by others.

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* Save / load layout of tabs. Automatically load the last tabs layout.


Same as above

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* Big red panic button. What this does is:
1- Creates a brand new wallet
2- Opens all the other wallets that the client remembers ever opening
3- Sends all the money from all these wallets to the newly created wallet.


A panic dump, and interesting idea.  Still an unnecessary feature that will have to be added by others.

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* Instead of showing the number of confirmations for each transaction, make it easier / more graphical. Maybe "unconfirmed", "receiving confirmation", and "confirmed", or something similar. Advanced users will be able to change the view to see the number of confirmations.

* A plugin for buying / selling / trading bitcoins on popular exchanges.
1- Send money to the exchange and request it from the exchange with a click of a button.
2- Look at latest quotes.
3- Trade

* A plugin for mining bitcoins. GUIMiner built into the client.


... Other ideas?

I've one.  Help write these features.  Put them into a forked client.  Name it something else.  Does anyone here still use the original bittorrentd to download torrent files?  I have in the past, but not in years.  The programmers working on the guts of bitcoin are probably not particularly good at implimenting popular features or even user interface designs.  This would be a misuse of their time, anyway.
4491  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 08:29:53 PM

That's completely untrue.  I'm being forced under threat of violence to conform to a society whose rules I do not agree with and whose "coercive" market forces (your definition, not the real one) affect my daily life even though I do not agree with the policies that created them - just like you living in our current society.

Care to present an actual example of this?

An actual example of what?  The fact that, if defined as you people define it, ANY system of social contruction is "coercive" to those that do not 100% agree with it and ALL are enforced under threat of violence to one extent or another?

I'm not sure which part of that you're having a difficult time wrapping your mind around.  Perhaps it's because you think Liberland would be a flawless utopia that no person could do anything but love with all their heart.


Wow.  You really have no clue what a libertarian believes.

I think the question AyeYo is asking is thus:

What if non-libertarians in a libertarian society object to the use of force to establish property rights on the grounds that the libertarian conception of property is one that they reject?


Then they are still free to start their own society or leave and seek out an existing one more to their own liking.  The fiction book, The Diamond Age explores this concept with depth
4492  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Will fund ASIC board for mining community. Need Hardware devs. on: June 22, 2011, 08:04:55 PM
the notify button, also sends you a mail Sad
aye  Sad

Change your email settings to something it's not.  Try "null".  What other reason would you have your real email address registered at this forum, if not to receive notices?
4493  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 08:01:45 PM

That's completely untrue.  I'm being forced under threat of violence to conform to a society whose rules I do not agree with and whose "coercive" market forces (your definition, not the real one) affect my daily life even though I do not agree with the policies that created them - just like you living in our current society.

Care to present an actual example of this?

An actual example of what?  The fact that, if defined as you people define it, ANY system of social contruction is "coercive" to those that do not 100% agree with it and ALL are enforced under threat of violence to one extent or another?

I'm not sure which part of that you're having a difficult time wrapping your mind around.  Perhaps it's because you think Liberland would be a flawless utopia that no person could do anything but love with all their heart.


Wow.  You really have no clue what a libertarian believes.
4494  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Should there be Three Laws of Bitcoin? on: June 22, 2011, 04:50:39 AM
With recent events of theft, hacking, combined with the never-ending deflation/inflation debate,  it's very tempting to modify the code solving these issues. For example

1. If a large sum of coins is stolen or lost due to malicious attack, the client code can be modified to blacklist these coins (and their subsequent forms), or it can even go further issuing specially generated coins to compensate the victims.


No.  This would introduce an obvious abuse vector.  He who could influence the blacklisting of coins, or their unlisting, to his own advantage would eventually do so.  Don't bother trying to claim that you are above corruption.  No one is.  Everyone who runs for congress for the first time does so because he believes this fallacy.

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2. Why there can't be a time limit of inactivity, if a coin hasn't been touched in the past 10 or 20 years, can the program just mark it as "lost" in the blockchain and issue a replacement?


Again, abuse vector.  How is the time limit decided?  Can this mechanism be spoofed?  I suppose one could use the block number, but why bother?  The future expected deflation due to lost coins is bound to be so slow as to be unimportant.

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3. If a majority of bitcoin users have reached a consensus that the deflationary aspect is bad to the currency, development team will likely be under pressure to modify the coin generation algorithm, e.g. lifting the 21M cap.


Absolutely not.  Get out.  And go start your own currency.

4495  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 22, 2011, 04:39:15 AM
I wish the media wouldn't be so negative on Bitcoin.

Maybe the Powers That Be control the media AND the money supply? An interesting idea, to say the least.

An interesting idea?  Are you serious?  That was so obvious I never even considered that it had to be said.
4496  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Would some nice gentleman send me a tiny amount so I can check my client works? on: June 22, 2011, 04:37:28 AM
Alright, I've let this one go on long enough.  Everyone out of the gene pool!

Thread locked.
4497  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The next step for Bitcoin: Cell Phone Service Takeover on: June 22, 2011, 03:09:22 AM
Ok so I'm been reading this forum for sometime now. I understand exactly what this economy is missing to really have it jump off. That my fellow bitcoin lovers is PHONE SERVICE.

Why go to all that trouble, when any user could become a vendor for any of those prepaid services and put up a website that allowed users to buy minute cards & top up cards for bitcoin.  I use Virgin Mobile, and the local vendor that I usually buy topup cards from doesn't even use actual cards anymore, but generates a new top up code that is printed onto the receipt.  I'm sure that coding this into a website would be trivial for any code monkey worth his 'leet thinkgeek t-shirts.
4498  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 02:55:00 AM
He means the improvements of construction and the like.  The land that once belonged to an indian tribe in Florida was nearly worthless swampland until Walt Disney & company bought it up to build Disney World.  It was the idea that was most valuable, not the real estate.  But even the idea was worthless without the labor to make it real.
4499  Other / Politics & Society / Re: This is where I stop believing Obama is possibly a rational, intelligent man. on: June 22, 2011, 01:59:10 AM

That's completely untrue.  I'm being forced under threat of violence to conform to a society whose rules I do not agree with and whose "coercive" market forces (your definition, not the real one) affect my daily life even though I do not agree with the policies that created them - just like you living in our current society.

Care to present an actual example of this?
4500  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the CIA on: June 22, 2011, 12:54:39 AM
I'm sory ryepdx, I was trying to respond to your post, but it seems that I accidentally overwrote it instead.  I'm not sure how that happened.  I would split the thread, but I keep getting an error.

It seems that I hit the 'edit' button instead of the 'quote' button without noticing it, and there is no 'undo' button.
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