While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).
How about all those Batch #3 Avalon unit buyers that you screwed royally by setting a price per unit in BTC that is impossible to ever break even? For example, a 4 module unit cost about BTC 102 and has generated BTC 31 to date. These units will NEVER break even at the current rises of difficulty because of all the delays in their delivery. You can't blame him for your greed, You are the one that choose to overpay |
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Why don't you guys complaining make your own Avalon boards? I mean it can't be that hard right? Look at all of the other companies with working boards..... wait how many have a K16 or a K64 hashing? Did you forget who had the first hashing K16 and who BKK himself said is in good shape for when the chips arrive?
I swear you guys must post hoping to get others to cancel so you can move up in the queue.
You realize TH never has had a PROPER working K16. They showed a video once much later then they announced they had it working, with it running slower then spec and to much HW errors. And they announced they were working on a K64.... dont see anything about that. In months they have never posted a proper working sample. And TH didnt make thier own Avalon boards...... BBK is the hardware genius who designed it. TH at this point has made their own anything. I think the only queue anyone needs to be worried about is refund one with TH. Actually terrahash's board is not the same as BKKs as per BKK but I wouldn't expect you to do any research yourself. But it is based upon BKK's design, which terrahash said they will be paying a royalty to BKK for every board they produce. Terrahash has done almost nothing as of yet, but take peoples money, build a website and show a video of 1 k16 that is not functioning correctly. |
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Was the timer set on 2 weeks? Felt like the timer was set wrong You might be thinking about this: Where is Terrahash? They are not responding to emails, tickets, voice call (mail box still not setup).
They are obviously monitoring the forum though.
Let it be known that Terrahash has my chips today. So the two weeks clock starts now.
I need to know what size and spec of fan to buy but I can't find the info as terrahash is not responding to anything.
Looks like someone called TH's bluff. Now we will see... Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-13+24:00:00EDT |
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I guess interest in the Klondike will spike again once the asics are actually shipping at a fraction of the current costs.
There is still significant cost in the rest of the components and assembly. Best to apply the design to new chips if possible. After all the dust settles from the group order refunds Avalon will have a lot of inventory on hand for immediate delivery. Keep in mind Avalon paid the foundry considerably less to produce the chips than they were selling them for. I believe they'll be able to discount in-hand chips to the point where it'll still be profitable to manufacture them into boards. My vote is to keep going on the Klondike project to get the current k16 boards hashing, and prepare for any design modifications needed for the Gen 2 chips. This assumes that Yifu doesn't have buyers already lined up in china or elsewhere. |
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We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.
We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.
We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.
Countdown clock for the "assembled" k64 Timer removed. End time: 2013-08-30+24:00:00PST Looks like you lost, where are the boards Terrahash? Were you even able to get 1 k16 running at 333*16 without HW errors? Amir, Justin, You should pack it up and close your doors, save yourself from bankruptcy and the lawsuits that are surely coming your way. You have failed in every way: Failure to communicate in any meaningful way: check Failure to produce a working prototype: check Failure to recruit customer advocates: check Failure to meet any of your own deadlines or promises: check You failed and this is now undeniable. |
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We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.
We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.
We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.
Countdown clock for the "assembled" k64 Timer removed. End time: 2013-08-30+24:00:00PST Times almost up Terrahash, where are the boards? |
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tyrion70 and blastbob,
Would you consider opening up a group buy for folks that got dupped by the Avalon debacle?
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We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.
We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.
We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.
Countdown clock for the "assembled" k64 Timer removed. End time: 2013-08-30+24:00:00PST Assembled in this context means 4 fully populated connected hashing k16 boards. Expected hashrate should be no less then: 4*16*333~=21GH/s with HW errors less then 5%. Clock is set to PST, so that no one says they were cheated because of time zones. |
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I'll point out the most important rule, When You Must Cancel an OrderYou must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when: - the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
- the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
- the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
- the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
- you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
- you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.
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I'll take 10 please, payment tonight when I get home from work.
Quick question since you didn't mention it, is this group buy open to anybody? |
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I'll take 10 please, payment tonight when I get home from work.
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We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.
We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.
We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.
Will the k64 be ready tomorrow? Will you provide a video or some other kind of proof? You don't know what's happening at Avalon? Neither does anybody else, have you called them on behalf of your customers, because... you have a responsibility to find out? Plan B? What nonsense is this, and you can't tell us what it is because why? Perhaps you can't tell us why because you are the worst business person on the fucking planet and had no contingency plan for a disaster like this! Please see the below post in regards to what type of communications people are asking for, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.msg3033196#msg3033196How about you take your head out of your ass and do something for the people that trusted you with their funds! |
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Where is Terrahash? They are not responding to emails, tickets, voice call (mail box still not setup).
They are obviously monitoring the forum though.
Let it be known that Terrahash has my chips today. So the two weeks clock starts now.
I need to know what size and spec of fan to buy but I can't find the info as terrahash is not responding to anything.
Looks like someone called TH's bluff. Now we will see... Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-13+24:00:00EDT Terrahash, did you or did you not receive hchc's chips? |
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Where is Terrahash? They are not responding to emails, tickets, voice call (mail box still not setup).
They are obviously monitoring the forum though.
Let it be known that Terrahash has my chips today. So the two weeks clock starts now.
I need to know what size and spec of fan to buy but I can't find the info as terrahash is not responding to anything.
Please post proof that they have your chips so that we can have this documented appropriately. |
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Where is Terrahash? They are not responding to emails, tickets, voice call (mail box still not setup).
They are obviously monitoring the forum though.
Let it be known that Terrahash has my chips today. So the two weeks clock starts now.
I need to know what size and spec of fan to buy but I can't find the info as terrahash is not responding to anything.
Looks like someone called TH's bluff. Now we will see... Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-13+24:00:00EDT |
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Silvas, I think we are mostly on the same page about all this, I for one take personal responsibility quite seriously and Amir's and Justin's complete and utter lack of any respect for anything just takes the cake. More info from zefirs group buy. Update: EndgameWith ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs. Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds. I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy. At this stage our options are as follows: - A. sit and wait
That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum  - B. demand full refund
The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more. - C. negotiate for compensation
While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon. - D. legal action
Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).
I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM. |
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So terrahash, now that everybody is pretty certain that nobody will ever get their Avalon chips, what are you going to do to remedy this situation with your "customers"?
Will you be refunding everybody? Or are you planning on pulling a yifu?
Why have you not been returning your customers calls or emails or other lines of communication?
Does anybody else see a similar pattern here?
They've already responded to that question. "Again, in case the chips never arrive, we might be able to return a portion of everybody's money." note the 'might' and 'a portion' parts. I think people are going to just have to hope that the chips do eventually show up, no matter how seemingly futile that hope may be. This isn't the only issue of course, but it is most certainly the most prevalent and immediate for most TH customers at this time. Why can't terrahash answer this for themselves? Why do they need you or anybody else to hide behind? Why won't they answer simple straight forward questions? Why do the refuse to speak up for themselves? Why won't the speak up on behalf of their customers? Why do they hide from their own customers? First, I'm not exactly a TH defender here. In fact, I'd say I'm nearly as far from defending them as I could possibly be, so they damn sure ain't hiding behind me. Second, THEY DID ANSWER IT THEMSELVES. I was just quoting what they said. While I certainly am not going to defend them, why should they repeat themselves when they've already answered the question publicly for all to see? Silvas, I know your really pissed right now (read your fu post in yifu's thread), I get that I really do, but these questions must be answered by Amir or Justin from terrahash, based upon the fact that yifu is now pushing everybody to a refund and has blamed the community for his fucked up business practices. That answer that they gave was what 2 months ago? New conditions have arisen and they must be held accountable for their actions or lack thereof and commitments. I am sorry for your loss and everybody else's but wtf do you think I have been trying to say all along? Everybody was/is putting me on ignore or calling me a kid or an asshole or a whining loser or whatever because I was asking questions that I wasn't getting answers to, nor was anybody else for that matter. Do you not see that terrahash is pulling the same shit as yifu? They don't even have a fully working k16 yet! You guys should be up in fucking arms right now... A partial refund? Are you kidding me? |
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So terrahash, now that everybody is pretty certain that nobody will ever get their Avalon chips, what are you going to do to remedy this situation with your "customers"?
Will you be refunding everybody? Or are you planning on pulling a yifu?
Why have you not been returning your customers calls or emails or other lines of communication?
Does anybody else see a similar pattern here?
They've already responded to that question. "Again, in case the chips never arrive, we might be able to return a portion of everybody's money." note the 'might' and 'a portion' parts. I think people are going to just have to hope that the chips do eventually show up, no matter how seemingly futile that hope may be. This isn't the only issue of course, but it is most certainly the most prevalent and immediate for most TH customers at this time. Why can't terrahash answer this for themselves? Why do they need you or anybody else to hide behind? Why won't they answer simple straight forward questions? Why do the refuse to speak up for themselves? Why won't the speak up on behalf of their customers? Why do they hide from their own customers? |
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Judging from the 1.6 W/GH/s and the posted requirements for power supplies we can extrapolate and get some interesting hash rates of the units. Please correct me if I'm wrong but:
Mercury Saturn Jupiter
220W 137ghs 440w 275ghs 880w 550ghs These wattage requirements would be for max.
200w 125ghs 400w 250ghs 800w 500ghs Maybe overclocked.
187.5w 117ghs 375w 234ghs 750w 468ghs Sweet spot.
160w 100ghs 320w 200ghs 640w 400ghs Minumum requirements.
It seems that the output hash rate off the chips will be better than expected.
Can somebody with better math skills then me throw some probabilities at the above? For instance: 400==100% 468==85% Etc. |
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