Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[SebastianJu]

The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.

Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.

Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.

Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?

Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?

We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.

[1714035233]

1714035233

[1714035233]

1714035233

[1714035233]

1714035233

[peterepeat]

Hi Yifu,
 I am still waiting for my batch 3 refund for order 6997.
Could you please process the payment?
Thanks

[Humax]

you really expect answer from this chinese motherfucker? cmooon

yeah..... just help us remember next time when we want to order miners, we should order from BFL, an US company! 

[Bitcoinorama]

you really expect answer from this chinese motherfucker? cmooon

yeah..... just help us remember next time when we want to order miners, we should order from BFL, an US company! 

Umm...Bitsyncom IS a US company.

[alfabitcoin]

The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.

Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.

Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.

Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?

Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?

We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.

Hear hear Sebastian.
We had our share of talk about chips in May if you remember. How stressed we were and thought that each day count and who order early will get chips first. I am in EU and missed to order on your batch 1 so I ordered from Steamboat who is from US and has batch order the same date as your batch #1!! Now with assambly I'am due to pay 25% VAT and expensive shipping to EU. Terrible. Its not much but I speak for principles. And what about BKK, Steamboat, Terrahash and many other who basicly funded their operation with customers money!? There is no emotions in business, nobody forced them, I know, but still just imagine!

If bitsyncom does not grow in customer support and offer at least appology to DIY comunity and maybe consider some reimbursement in future we should boycot them.

[SebastianJu]

By the way... the refund form is an invitation for scammers. Before i had read the avalon news i already had confirmation emails asking for confirmation to refund 2 of our batches to another persons Address. I have to clear this tomorrow, of course i didnt fall for this but i hope no one other does in the heat. The batch 3 miner form was better i think.

[Bitcoinorama]

Look what is utterly weird is he has 400k chips arriving next Wednesday, enough for 40 batches, and we are lead to believe he is capable of refunding orders up until mid June, so;

What of the latter batches ordered, when are those chips meant to arrive, if this 400k, was initially meant for the earlier orders?

Are we seriously meant to believe out of the kindness of Bitsyncom's hearts that they will swallow handling the additional chips and resell them even later?

Fact is those 400k chips coming next Wednesday are clearly for the orders after mid-June onwards anyway.

So, where the hell have all the chips from orders up until the 15th of June disappeared to?

We know they had millions made and received by Bitsyncom on the 25th June. Photographic evidence exists, courier delivery verified by courier website using the tracking ID on the waybill plastered on each of the boxes photographed.

Still none of this has been addressed, this can not be allowed to be swept under the carpet, by offering refunds alone.

What has happened to the chips for orders up until the 15th June?

[ScaryHash]

I would have been fine with it if he told us in June something like:

*************************
"Hey guys, my family had death threats and had to go into hiding, chips might be late by 4 weeks. I haven't gotten around to ordering them from TSMC because I'm in Outer Mongolia"...

Posted from Yifu's iPhone from fucking Ulan Bator (or thereabouts).

*************************

Really, I would have. I can understand that.

But TWO months late, and NO communication, nothing, then this?

Sorry, I just can't buy it.

[pajak666]

Look what is utterly weird is he has 400k chips arriving next Wednesday, enough for 40 batches, and we are lead to believe he is capable of refunding orders up until mid June, so;

What of the latter batches ordered, when are those chips meant to arrive, if this 400k, was initially meant for the earlier orders?

Are we seriously meant to believe out of the kindness of Bitsyncom's hearts that they will swallow handling the additional chips and resell them even later?

Fact is those 400k chips coming next Wednesday are clearly for the orders after mid-June, onwards anyway.

So, where the hell have all the chips from orders up until the 15th of June disappeared to?

We know they were made and delivered to Bitsyncom on the 25th June. Photographic evidence exists.

Still none of this has been addressed, this can not be allowed to be swept under the carpet, by offering refunds alone.

If He double sold something what other investor prefunded, that is a clear crime. No surprise he insta decided about refunds when proofs came out.
Now he gives back money when in reality he could sold those chips for 2,5 x price when he had them in stock. So when he will refund btctalk orders he still will be left with 1,5 x profit. Easy as that. Clear felony if prooven

Simple math: 1,5 x 14 mil = 21 mil = 7mil profit

[Bitcoinorama]

Look what is utterly weird is he has 400k chips arriving next Wednesday, enough for 40 batches, and we are lead to believe he is capable of refunding orders up until mid June, so;

What of the latter batches ordered, when are those chips meant to arrive, if this 400k, was initially meant for the earlier orders?

Are we seriously meant to believe out of the kindness of Bitsyncom's hearts that they will swallow handling the additional chips and resell them even later?

Fact is those 400k chips coming next Wednesday are clearly for the orders after mid-June, onwards anyway.

So, where the hell have all the chips from orders up until the 15th of June disappeared to?

We know they were made and delivered to Bitsyncom on the 25th June. Photographic evidence exists.

Still none of this has been addressed, this can not be allowed to be swept under the carpet, by offering refunds alone.

If He double sold something what other investor prefunded, that is a clear crime. No surprise he insta decided about refunds when proofs came out.
Now he gives back money when in reality he could sold those chips for 2,5 x price when he had them in stock. So when he will refund btctalk orders he still will be left with 1,5 x profit. Easy as that. Clear felony if prooven

Well it's not hard to prove considering those chips pictured were way more than necessary for Batch 3 as he recently claimed, oh and Batch 3 was promised to be delivered long before 25th June.

So then he was lying there as he supposedly hadn't even started by that point assembling Batch 3 by his own admission.

Only in reality Batch 3 was ready in time, just used to fulfil the other half of Batch 2 when the silver Batch 2's magically stopped shipping half way through after being caught pre-mined, covered in dust and assigned to mining pools.

So then the latter half of Batch 2 was competed with the black Avalon boxes originally meant for Batch 3 and already purposely delayed whilst Batch 2's were pre-mined.

Wow.

[Stack]

Really, I would have. I can understand that.
But TWO months late, and NO communication, nothing, then this?
Sorry, I just can't buy it.

Yes, if legitimate business were going on, that just encountered genuine issues, what would've happened is as follows

Yifu first realises he can't ship by his deadline
Yifu informs customers he might not be able to ship by his deadline, and comes up with a reasonable ETA
Outraged customers ask for a refund, others just accept the facts
Yifu refunds those who asked for it, since he has breached the terms of his "no bullshit" contract
Yifu ships the remaining open orders within the new estimated time

Really that easy  ...and most buyers would've just accepted the delay in that scenario.

[Xialla]

Yifu first realises he can't ship by his deadline
Yifu informs customers he might not be able to ship by his deadline, and comes up with a reasonable ETA
Outraged customers ask for a refund, others just accept the facts
Yifu refunds those who asked for it, since he has breached the terms of his "no bullshit" contract
Yifu ships the remaining open orders within the new estimated time
Really that easy  ...and most buyers would've just accepted the delay in that scenario.

YES, exactly. this is the most common approach in business.

[BitSyncom]

By the way... the refund form is an invitation for scammers. Before i had read the avalon news i already had confirmation emails asking for confirmation to refund 2 of our batches to another persons Address. I have to clear this tomorrow, of course i didnt fall for this but i hope no one other does in the heat. The batch 3 miner form was better i think.

well, phishing/requests have been coming in for a long time now, but this is why I sent out a email to all the orders owners emails address to confirm the refund is indeed happening, or not.

The form says: "The order has to be made before june 15ths" So only when a batch was ordered after that date it cant be refunded yet. Luckily after the form was changed from 1st to 15ths we can refund 50000 of our 56000 chips.

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

The thing is how Yifu handled this. First no support. I found it ok that he gives no technical support but that he stops communicating on business relationship communication at all was real stress.

Then he came up with the excuse that 20 batches are in customs since 2 weeks. But the batches were due since 5 weeks already and 20 batches are nothing. We know he ordered all batches after 5 weeks, so he knew it will take 4-5 weeks to create and get the chips. Sounds ok since he created chips before.

Then we see images of many chips. Why should they exist if there are no miners to create yet? And they exist at a time matching when our chips should be ready in an amount that could match the ordered batches? Random? And why does chinese resellers can deliver since yifu cant? If he couldnt produce so many chips he had to stop selling them.

Because of no communication someone tried to personally ask and visited the parents of an employee. Yifu was so scared that he had to stop work and start creating security? Someone mentioned he now has bodyguards. So the fact he did not communicate, no support and not even announcements lead to customers search him and the solution is to protect against his customers?

Im sick of thinking of all the errors he made. And yes, the biggest error is his communication. He denied to me to hire a support person because the team is small and will remain small. That was it for him. Is this how a business person should decide?

We dont know what happened, true. But if its not his fault then it would be so very easy to describe everything that happened and that wasnt in his might to change. But he doesnt. Im not sure what problem he has but the stress and work he put on me... i cant forget. I wont order anything from him again.

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,

The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

[fasmax]

Will the batches still be sent in the order that they were received if a refund is not requested?

[cardcomm]

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

Anyhow, If people think I'm trying to screw the people who ordered from 15th to the 22th of June that is just silly, and false in their assumption. Here's the new deal,

The form will extend to orders made before the 22nd, which is exatly 10 weeks. and every order after, on the date it is suppose to ship, we'll send out a email asking if a refund is desired.

While I have no problems issue refunds, compensating for delay and such, I got no patience for people complaining when their orders are not late. Not too surprisingly, the people complaining the loudest are people whose order are not late yet(so more people refund and they can get their chips earlier maybe?), and people who have no orders(standard trolls of bitcointalk).

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

What sort of "compensation model" are you referring to? As of now, it's seemed our only recourse was refund or wait. Now you mention other compensation.

BTW, it's hard for me to believe you've made it to adulthood without realizing the criticality of customer service in any service or product sales industry. The smaller the team, the more critical the customer service representative. Basic business 101...

What a joke!

[peetah]

Get out the popcorn! Hate fest about to start. This is more gripping than The Conjuring. I don't know what's contributing to the suspense thriller feel more. The fact that yifu is actually making gradual concessions or the fact that the hate makers have achieved levels of vile not yet seen by these forums. And that's really something. Racial bestial homophobic comments? BFL haters are going to have a tough time beating that one.

On a serious note though. Let's get past this. The cut off really just influences a handful of people. 50 to 60 orders in total, we should not bang on this minor point and see what further concessions he has up his sleeve.

[jimrome]

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

Maybe you could comment on the huge shipment of Avalon chips which was photographed ~2 months ago? You know, around the same time the first chips should have been shipping to your customers? http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3 original source http://www.btcman.com/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4621&extra=page%3D1&page=4

[cpengr]

Yifu,

Groups of people have built up businesses around your product and your promise (9-10 weeks "no bullshit"), and you still haven't had the decency to even explain what happened, and why you were unable to meet your commitment. Just hand-waving and diversions--some mafia allegedly after you--but you couldn't make a peep for the entire time?--and some small percentage of the amount of chips ordered were allegedly held up in customs, for some small portion of the time that they were already late.

Then you have the gall to (1) continue to handwave and not explain, (2) call your customers greedy for being rightfully upset with you, and (3) only offer a refund of what they paid you for the chips--despite knowing full well that there are other other sunk unrecoverable costs surrounding this disaster.

So how about you start by showing some good faith and telling us WHAT the fuck HAPPENED, and WHY you were unable to meet your commitment?

[massnerder]

Maybe you could comment on the huge shipment of Avalon chips which was photographed ~2 months ago? You know, around the same time the first chips should have been shipping to your customers? http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3

Yea, this.  I find it hard to believe that yufi didn't think of that, it is something he just doesn't seem to want to address.

[Bitcoinorama]

Rest of the stuff you said, I agree. We are a team of 4 people ( it'll stay that way for reasons I'll not get into for the time being.) and we will learn and grow as a team, I have no problem admitting to issue and mistakes. The only got I really got to comment on is the chinese reseller chip thing you mentioned that keeps coming up over and over. As far as I understand it, some one ordered ~2k chips from somebody in china, then a whole shit storm starts on how we have been selling chips to resellers and delaying everyone else, this simply is not true. I said before(and been ignored.) more than 50% of the chip orders originates from china. We've shipped out chips, a few hundred thousand a best so far. there is simply no resellers with volume. People keep asking for evidence on how we have NOT "sell-out" to these resellers, but where is the evidence on the fact they have chips?

This:

Ok here as promised:
Photos from chinese stuff importer in Poland.
According to what he says somebody ordered 500 chips by him, and did not show up to pick up his order.
Here is most funny part, he writes:
"mamy 500szt, ale nic nie stoi na przeszkodzie, aby w około miesiąc czasu ściągnąć większą ilość z Azji, gdyby tylko miał Pan zbyt na to."
Which stands for "we got 500 pieces, but it's not a problem to import whole lot more from Asia, only if you could find a place where to sell it"
He is just a middle man, clueless what to do with the chips


Hi res pictures
http://extrazoom.com/image-5697.html?heuln50x50
http://extrazoom.com/image-5696.html?heuln50x50

He is asking 31$ per chip.
VOILA that's where yifu shipped bitcointalk community chips, to a local resellers in Asia
Alibaba offers are real and toabao offers are real.
Still not in the mood for a proper lawsuit?

Incidentally they also carry the same timestamp on each chip as the 135 boxes mentioned on the customs form delivered on June 25th;

http://m.imgur.com/a/GR0e3

And then there's Horseriders contacts on Alibaba that he's confirmed have real chips for sale at approx $30 each.

Furthermore, this also requires addressing:

Under the circumstances, I hope you won't be too upset to learn that many people will be extremely skeptical of refund claims until a bunch of people start posting their txids.

Here is the blockchain info for 9 refunds... mine was in this batch.
https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

Hey, check it out - the address that paid you got it's coins from https://blockchain.info/address/15PW2jpo212JGAoYa6WB6FBUMdGzBqmDT6

Which came from:
https://blockchain.info/address/158mVoizfU3xPxGGchGtnsKSixGs9XTo6v

Which in turn got 10,000 coins from: https://blockchain.info/address/16ygEoTjg7P5GJwLKTQd1UgqAGuF8bKVRc

And, that in turn got it's coins from: https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU

Which, if you'll remember is the "mystery address" that Yifu said "who say's we control that address" (or whatever)

I happened to remember the 158mVoizfU3xPxGGchGtnsKSixGs9XTo6v address showing up in a discussion about a mystery solo mine somewhere.