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4661  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: October 04, 2012, 02:44:24 PM
I honestly think 'Goatgate' happened because there's bad blood between them. I don't see Nefario killing GLBSE by delisting more assets at a whim.

The problem is assets have been delisting themselves at the rate of 1-2 a day for a while now.
4662  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Goodies inside. on: October 04, 2012, 02:16:10 PM
Those who replied were allocated shares.

The PDPC (foundation supporting freenode) is $183.12 richer as a result of this too. They haven't yet managed to collect because they have a particularly inflexible donations system in place, but we've contacted the staff in #freenode for a solution and copumpkin has $183.12 in escrow ready to send.
4663  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Care about Bitcoin? STAY AWAY from the "Bitcoin Fundation" on: October 04, 2012, 02:10:23 PM
Alternatively, govt can go take a hike.


YEEEEPPPPP that's the main idea behind Bitcoin. Thinking that the government will relinquish control and stop calling Bitcoin a "tool for criminals" because there is a foundation behind it is just laughable anyways.

Especially seeing how government is THE tool for criminals.
4664  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: There is no ANY update about bitcoinica? We just got fucked and that's it? on: October 04, 2012, 02:09:47 PM
If the process of converting USD/BTC is forced to become largely OTC, it's likely that a lot of users will abandon Bitcoin in the short term, that many speculators will leave the game and that newbies will decide that it's just too cumbersome at this time.

This would actually be a net gain. Way too many idiots running around, requiring valuable time to be supported/educated and otherwise creating absolutely stupid drama which ends up draining even more time/resources. People like Usagi or Kludge or so forth have already done individually more damage to Bitcoin than all the benefit brought about by all the silent-but-clueless new users. If all the hours spent by the intelligent/educated interacting with them were spent half fishing, a third sexting and the rest actually working on bitcoin the net result would be positive for bitcoin.

Bitcoin is too open currently, the best thing anyone could do for it is raise the barriers a little bit.
4665  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Nefario GLBSE on: October 04, 2012, 02:08:17 PM
What I can tell you is that you are spending your efforts in the wrong place if you want to debate GLBSE policy on this forum.

I see usagi-thought is making inroads. Loup, why not just make some local forum rules?

Not true. GLBSE/Nefario actually opened the thread about delisting Goat himself.

They only decided to ignore the forum after the SHTF

This is indeed true. Nefario gets brave in front of the mirror, softens up in public.

They used to have a forum. It's been gone since around the time GLBSE 2.0 launched, and GLBSE launched a support account here because the other forum was poorly supported and resulted in information spread out in two different places.

Lol maybe Loup is trying to revive it?

They have already ignored me long enough for me to get the hint. To my knowledge ( but I didnt look too hard ) the scam section only has this thread relating to nefario scamming. So I put my complaints where they belong, I don't care if I shot myself in the foot since I know my bitcoins are already stolen.
I'm not sure on the policy here, but if you believe you have a case for a scammer tag against Nefario, it might be best to post your accusation in a new thread.  Presumably you will get the opportunity to work with BadBear and Maged the same way Goat did, and presumably your interactions will be different, if only more private.  I can see the point in posting here since you are in a way "a victim of the same scam" but I think you are more "a victim of a different scam" or "a victim of piss-poor customer service" and I don't know what anyone else would think, but a separate thread will at least get your complaint seem by more eyes than page 17 of this one.

Twas tried. Very well presented if I may say so myself, didn't go anywhere because c0x.
4666  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: How would be better to invest 1.000.000 $ into BTC economy? on: October 04, 2012, 02:03:47 PM
Sell 83 333 contracts of this http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=O.BTCUSD.P120N

If bitcoin will be above 12 USD by December - you will get 0.2 * 83 333 = 16666 BTC + initial 1 000 000 USD.

If bitcoin will be below 12 USD by December - you will have BTC 100 000.

Even more:

You can continue doing so until  one day you are assigned BTC. When you have BTCs you do same thing but upside down.

Sell Call contracts with strike at spot level.

In order to sell the contracts you have to first create them. That takes capital to cover. Perhaps you've not really tried the method you propose?
4667  Economy / Marketplace / Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Order Dates / Ship Dates on: October 04, 2012, 02:03:09 PM
Those that adopt ASIC sooner, at a higher price point, may be left with longer ROI periods than those that wait to purchase.
That's what I've been thinking for a while. When BFL first announced preorders, the price per BTC was half what it was today. This means you can buy an ASIC for half what it cost you 3 months ago.

that's why I paid in fiat.

This logic of yours...

If you bought BTC for the same money and sold it today you'd have had enough money for twice your order all the while carrying the same risks as you in fact carried.

You still made a loss.
4668  Economy / Lending / Re: How to take out a bitcoin loan....the pro version. on: October 04, 2012, 02:02:09 PM
If there are "investors" in their own mind and "bankers" in their own mind willing to go into these arrangements, what could possibly stop the pros?

There's a reason people pay for the services of a fund manager IRL. That reason is that IRL people are aware of and submit to the cold reality of their own stupidity: they know and accept they are too stupid to manage money. That knowledge and acceptance has been earned with many tears and plenty of bleeding.

Seems people want to start over in BTC. After all, it's a totally new wheel, right?
4669  Economy / Securities / Re: Critique of the various businesses run by usagi on: October 04, 2012, 02:09:33 AM
I don't believe usagi ever truly understood how this sort of offering should be properly structured - as is clearly demonstrated by various of my points above.

Well since we're doing this, here's how the mess began:

Quote
Aug 15 00:22:52 <mircea_popescu>   mkay so i'm about to offer a proper CD, three tiered.
Aug 15 00:23:32 <Diablo-D3>   require 15 mhash per trade
Aug 15 00:23:57 <mircea_popescu>   if anyone knows of bond issuers that are neither pirate nor mining exposed, and owned by really well known supertrustworthy people i wanna hear.
Aug 15 00:23:58 <usagi>   A three tiered CD?
Aug 15 00:24:01 <mircea_popescu>   yes.
Aug 15 00:24:54 <usagi>   mircea: http://tensionhead26.deviantart.com/art/Black-Sabbath-devil-34718908
Aug 15 00:25:56 <Diablo-D3>   usagi: see pm.
Aug 15 00:26:21 <mircea_popescu>   yes, i am devil.
Aug 15 00:26:32 <teek>   two of my bonds are not pirate or mining exposed
Aug 15 00:26:38 <teek>   there are others
Aug 15 00:26:48 <usagi>   TEEK.A is fully guaranteed
Aug 15 00:26:57 <mircea_popescu>   lettuce look into this teek.
Aug 15 00:27:50 *   Chaaaang-Noi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
Aug 15 00:27:52 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00036438 = 1.5304 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:28:41 <mircea_popescu>   teek : 10k issued 586 total volume since day 1 ?
Aug 15 00:28:50 <Diablo-D3>   usagi: see pm now.
Aug 15 00:28:54 *   Isepick (~chillin@fl-184-5-24-15.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets
Aug 15 00:30:02 <teek>   mircea_popescu: something like that.. seems the interest is too low, everyone wants pirate rates
Aug 15 00:30:03 <teek>   Tongue
Aug 15 00:30:21 <mircea_popescu>   i hear you.
Aug 15 00:30:26 <usagi>   It's the same with nyan, everyone buys .c, NO ONE buys .a or even .b
Aug 15 00:30:43 <usagi>   And if I close sales... the price shoots up, and no one buys a or b
Aug 15 00:30:48 <usagi>   thats stupid
Aug 15 00:31:05 <mircea_popescu>   the ideea here is that im tranching 500 btc of mpoe bonds (yielding ~5% per month) + 500 btc of harnett's (yielding 1% per week).
Aug 15 00:31:29 <mircea_popescu>   i can't paste that with stuff doing 0.3% per week, even tho i understand that 15% pa is significant.
Aug 15 00:32:36 <teek>   tranching?
Aug 15 00:32:51 <Luceo>   mircea_popescu: If you offer 15% outside bitcoin they'd call it a HYIP Tongue
Aug 15 00:32:51 <mircea_popescu>   you know how cd's work right ?
Aug 15 00:32:53 <Luceo>   or a ponzi
Aug 15 00:32:56 *   Chaaaang-Noi (~J@mo-184-6-53-35.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets
Aug 15 00:32:57 <Luceo>   in Bitcoin its too low Cheesy
Aug 15 00:33:01 <mircea_popescu>   Luceo and for a good reason.
Aug 15 00:33:13 <mircea_popescu>   i fully understand this, and it's ap roblem, but it can't be resolved overnight.
Aug 15 00:33:23 <mircea_popescu>   there must be a popped ponzi first for people to learn.
Aug 15 00:34:20 *   copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
Aug 15 00:36:51 <Luceo>   People still wont learn :/

[...]

Aug 15 00:49:18 <kakobrekla>   im afraid this is going to be a pump and dump
Aug 15 00:49:33 <usagi>   I will certainly sell at .5
Aug 15 00:49:36 <usagi>   Maybe a little at .3
Aug 15 00:49:49 <usagi>   1-3-5-8-13
Aug 15 00:49:59 <usagi>   price points.
Aug 15 00:50:21 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [FOO.PPPPT] 5 @ 1.0001 = 5.0005 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:50:39 <usagi>   The reason why is because each price point represents a new wave of investors after the old wave has covered their risk
Aug 15 00:50:47 <DeaDTerra>   evening people Smiley
Aug 15 00:50:55 *   rdponticelli (~rdpontice@200-081-038-072.wireless.movistar.net.ar) has joined #bitcoin-assets
Aug 15 00:51:07 <mircea_popescu>   <usagi> 1-3-5-8-13 < what's this ?
Aug 15 00:51:11 <usagi>   The next wave will take it to .3 when it sinks into the market that ASICMINER is real
Aug 15 00:51:11 <mircea_popescu>   heya DeaDTerra
Aug 15 00:51:18 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [FOO.PPPPT] 7 @ 1.0001 = 7.0007 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:51:20 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [FOO.PPPPT] 23 @ 1 = 23 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:51:24 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [OBSI.HRPT] 93 @ 0.1047 = 9.7371 BTC
Aug 15 00:51:25 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [OBSI.HRPT] 7 @ 0.1048 = 0.7336 BTC
Aug 15 00:51:32 <usagi>   Then greedy people will rush in and the original investors will sell at .5
Aug 15 00:51:54 <usagi>   Then it will go back to .3 then up to .8 again, but that might not happen for over a year
Aug 15 00:52:01 <usagi>   Just technical analysis price points
Aug 15 00:52:09 <usagi>   wave analysis etc
Aug 15 00:52:15 <DeaDTerra>   Selling ASICMINER shares Smiley Pm me if you are interested!
Aug 15 00:52:18 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [FOO.PPPPT] 50 @ 1 = 50 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:53:10 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 3 @ 0.999 = 2.997 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:53:25 *   teek is selling asicminer shares too, smoking deal @ .3
Aug 15 00:54:06 <teek>   mircea_popescu: i think i get it, thanks for the info.. so out of curiosity why would mixing something at .3% and something at 1% not be desirable?
Aug 15 00:54:32 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 17 @ 0.987 = 16.779 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:54:33 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 3 @ 0.986 = 2.958 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:54:34 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 76 @ 0.98501 = 74.8608 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:54:35 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 1 @ 0.985 BTC [-]
Aug 15 00:54:45 <mircea_popescu>   teek you either mix things of the same risk and varying rewards to arbitrage reward
Aug 15 00:54:54 <mircea_popescu>   or things of the same reward and varying risks to arbitrage risk
Aug 15 00:55:06 <mircea_popescu>   my ideea is that nobody currently has an inkling as to risk measurements in btc world

Aug 15 00:55:10 <mircea_popescu>   so  that'd be what i want to offer.
Aug 15 00:56:49 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46372 @ 0.00037287 = 17.2907 BTC
Aug 15 00:59:28 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 22 @ 0.04999999 = 1.1 BTC
Aug 15 00:59:43 <DeaDTerra>   how do I do the purple thing? Sad
Aug 15 01:01:00 <teek>   mircea_popescu, still a little confused.. so in this case harnett would be the senior tranche thus offering the least reward, then mpoe, then you need some others in there or?
Aug 15 01:01:13 <mircea_popescu>   no
Aug 15 01:01:21 <mircea_popescu>   if you wait a few minutes i'll show you the actual contract.
Aug 15 01:01:30 <mircea_popescu>   putting the finishing  touches on it nao.
Aug 15 01:01:41 <teek>   sure, now i just want to understand it Smiley
Aug 15 01:02:45 <Chaaaang-Noi>   $12.34
Aug 15 01:02:50 <teek>   ;;ticker
Aug 15 01:02:51 <gribble>   Best bid: 12.32479, Best ask: 12.3248, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 12.32479, 24 hour volume: 47868, 24 hour low: 11.7555, 24 hour high: 12.34
Aug 15 01:02:58 <teek>   holy craapola
Aug 15 01:03:01 *   asa has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client)
Aug 15 01:03:22 <teek>   cmon btc!  daddy needs a new set of gpus!
Aug 15 01:03:27 <teek>   Wink
Aug 15 01:04:00 <Chaaaang-Noi>   lol
Aug 15 01:04:12 <Chaaaang-Noi>   want me to send you a second box full of 21 gpus? Smiley
Aug 15 01:04:16 <DeaDTerra>   What has pirate changed his rates to?
Aug 15 01:04:22 <DeaDTerra>   and is there a official announcement yet?
Aug 15 01:04:51 <teek>   lol
Aug 15 01:05:11 <teek>   naw i think im good for now Tongue
Aug 15 01:05:58 <teek>   DeaDTerra, 5% top tier
Aug 15 01:06:27 <DeaDTerra>   hm that sucks Sad
Aug 15 01:06:35 <DeaDTerra>   I just got started with all of this Tongue
Aug 15 01:07:14 <assbot>   [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 790 @ 0.00112057 = 0.8853 BTC
Aug 15 01:07:15 <assbot>   [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 9410 @ 0.00112095 = 10.5481 BTC
Aug 15 01:08:02 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 2 @ 0.04999999 = 0.1 BTC
Aug 15 01:08:21 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 23 @ 0.04999999 = 1.15 BTC
Aug 15 01:08:23 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 27 @ 0.05 = 1.35 BTC
Aug 15 01:09:38 <Chaaaang-Noi>   5% a week is still freaking awesome
Aug 15 01:10:14 <DeaDTerra>   It is but not as good at 7% xD
Aug 15 01:10:16 <teek>   yeah yeah mr top tier
Aug 15 01:10:17 <teek>   Tongue
Aug 15 01:10:18 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 4 @ 0.05 = 0.2 BTC
Aug 15 01:10:18 <DeaDTerra>   Greedy maybe
Aug 15 01:10:54 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106 @ 0.00038108 = 0.0404 BTC
Aug 15 01:10:56 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23390 @ 0.00038129 = 8.9184 BTC
Aug 15 01:11:07 *   patrickharnett (cb4f5ec0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.79.94.192) has joined #bitcoin-assets
Aug 15 01:12:11 <Chaaaang-Noi>   its not hard to get 4.8 or 4.9% with a bit of trust Smiley
Aug 15 01:12:26 <mircea_popescu>   actually, my lower tier will do 9%.
Aug 15 01:12:32 <mircea_popescu>   just give me a second here to finish this Cheesy
Aug 15 01:12:34 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [JTME] 1 @ 0.9 BTC [-]
Aug 15 01:12:53 <usagi>   I hope your not copying Nyancat Financial Tongue)
Aug 15 01:13:06 <usagi>   It's weird. Every time I list a new security, 2 or 3 pop up just like it
Aug 15 01:13:16 <mircea_popescu>   haha i think i have dibs on cdo's usagi
Aug 15 01:13:17 <DeaDTerra>   hahahah xD
Aug 15 01:13:23 <mircea_popescu>   see the link i sent to teek above, it's from april lol
Aug 15 01:13:29 <usagi>   Mmm

[...]

Aug 15 01:59:47 <mircea_popescu>   alrighty so. ANNOUNCEMENT : introducing MPCD.A, .B and .C
Aug 15 01:59:49 <mircea_popescu>   http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php
Aug 15 01:59:54 <mircea_popescu>   go read the contract and have fun trading!
Aug 15 01:59:58 <mircea_popescu>   taking any questions.
Aug 15 02:01:39 <DeaDTerra>   Wow creative... I think I have heard about that before... something about a cat
Aug 15 02:01:40 <usagi>   Lol
Aug 15 02:01:47 <mircea_popescu>   a cat ?
Aug 15 02:01:47 <usagi>   Lol DT I know, like I said
Aug 15 02:02:14 <DeaDTerra>   Maybe a NyanCat? or maybe it wasn't a cat at all just Nyan. yea just Nyan
Aug 15 02:02:27 <mircea_popescu>   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?;topic=76515.0 << APRIL omg.
Aug 15 02:02:39 <mircea_popescu>   and btw, pinging teek.
Aug 15 02:03:32 <usagi>   No one is saying they invented the CDO
Aug 15 02:03:43 <usagi>   Just seems strange 2 days after I explained NYAN to you, this comes out :p
Aug 15 02:03:54 <usagi>   Kind of like TYGRR.BOND-PI and yarr but hey
Aug 15 02:04:02 <usagi>   It's a big market, I'm not the only fast food restaurant
Aug 15 02:04:05 <kakobrekla>   mpoe bonds are fixed at 4.9?
Aug 15 02:04:12 <assbot>   [MPEX] [B.MPCD.C] 5000 @ 0.001 = 5 BTC
Aug 15 02:04:16 <assbot>   [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C100T] 1 @ 0.25910304 BTC
Aug 15 02:04:20 <mircea_popescu>   kakobrekla currently fixed at 5% kakobrekla
Aug 15 02:04:42 <mircea_popescu>   dude srsly. this was announced ~4 months ago!
Aug 15 02:05:03 <kakobrekla>   lolwhat
Aug 15 02:05:11 <usagi>   No one is saying they invented a CDO
Aug 15 02:05:12 <eennaam>   start a niche market with regular speed food restaurant , or hell even slow food
Aug 15 02:05:13 <mircea_popescu>   as in can't go over 5%
Aug 15 02:05:26 <usagi>   I'm just ribbing you mircea. But I doubt you will pay 15% like you said
Aug 15 02:05:34 <mircea_popescu>   9% ? why not ?
Aug 15 02:05:40 <usagi>   9%, right
Aug 15 02:05:52 <usagi>   Because it's too imbalanced
Aug 15 02:06:06 <usagi>   You're paying 2x the value of the highest known paying security
Aug 15 02:06:12 <usagi>   What kind of guarantee are you offering?
Aug 15 02:06:14 <mircea_popescu>   well that is the very point of a cdo.
Aug 15 02:06:16 <usagi>   for the top trance?
Aug 15 02:06:41 <usagi>   It's too much pressure. You will have to limit sales.
Aug 15 02:06:50 <mircea_popescu>   the top pays 2. the bottom pays 9.
Aug 15 02:06:52 <usagi>   Then the price will shoot up and investors will not realize 9%
Aug 15 02:06:57 <BTCHero>   aww all the asicminer is gone
Aug 15 02:06:59 <mircea_popescu>   sales are limited. did you read the contract ?
Aug 15 02:07:05 <usagi>   No
Aug 15 02:07:07 <usagi>   lol
Aug 15 02:07:16 <usagi>   Well sales are limited, right
Aug 15 02:07:20 <usagi>   I should probably do that too
Aug 15 02:07:36 <usagi>   Henceforth NYAN.C is limited to 3,000 outstanding
Aug 15 02:07:40 <usagi>   GET IT WHILE YOU CAN

Aug 15 02:07:41 <mircea_popescu>   cdos are limited by their very nature.
Aug 15 02:07:44 <mircea_popescu>   lol!
Aug 15 02:07:46 <kakobrekla>   hm imho clean mpoe bonds is better deal than A or B
Aug 15 02:07:59 <usagi>   quick im logging in now to cancel the ask
Aug 15 02:08:11 <mircea_popescu>   kakobrekla well possibly, depends on your risk profile et all.
Aug 15 02:08:20 <mircea_popescu>   A has practically no risk i would guess.
Aug 15 02:08:44 <kakobrekla>   i dont see how A can have less risk than MPOE bond if its operated by you on the end
Aug 15 02:08:45 *   Chaaaang-Noi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
Aug 15 02:09:41 <assbot>   [MPEX] [B.MPCD.B] 80000 @ 0.001 = 80 BTC
Aug 15 02:09:58 <mircea_popescu>   well mpoe bond can either not kick in (if people offer lower interest)
Aug 15 02:10:07 <mircea_popescu>   or lese it could get hosed if people buy options and get lucky.
Aug 15 02:10:22 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00038129 = 6.1388 BTC
Aug 15 02:11:08 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 12 @ 1 = 12 BTC
Aug 15 02:11:48 <brendio>   MPOE bonds loose if MPOE makes a loss. For A to lose, one and possibly more of MPOE bonds, Patrick and NYAN would need to makes losses.
Aug 15 02:11:54 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [BIB.PIRATE] 56 @ 0.98 = 54.88 BTC [-]
Aug 15 02:12:08 <BTCHero>   patrick starfish
Aug 15 02:12:08 <mircea_popescu>   A is 400 out of a 1.1k pool.
Aug 15 02:12:09 <BTCHero>   ?
Aug 15 02:12:19 <mircea_popescu>   either mpoe or patrick would have to completely wipeout
Aug 15 02:12:20 <mircea_popescu>   and then some
Aug 15 02:12:26 <mircea_popescu>   yes BTCHero
Aug 15 02:12:30 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22110 @ 0.00038129 = 8.4303 BTC
Aug 15 02:12:30 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22390 @ 0.000383 = 8.5754 BTC
Aug 15 02:12:43 <mircea_popescu>   tbh i don't think there exists more secure anything than .A atm.
Aug 15 02:12:59 <teek>   mircea_popescu, the %'s for a,b,c are these arbitrary #'s you decide or is there some math behind them?
Aug 15 02:13:20 <usagi>   nyan.a is guaranteed by bitcoins held in an offline paper wallet.
Aug 15 02:13:26 <mircea_popescu>   teek i just picked numbers.
Aug 15 02:13:43 <mircea_popescu>   pretty much want to see what market says.
Aug 15 02:14:28 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 188 @ 0.003828 = 0.7197 BTC [-]
Aug 15 02:15:02 <teek>   i see
Aug 15 02:15:39 <teek>   usagi, this isn't really the same as nyan
Aug 15 02:16:16 *   rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Aug 15 02:16:42 <usagi>   there are three, chain-default tiers for which the interest paid is declared by fiat out of a pool, and not related to the underlying value of the funds?
Aug 15 02:17:20 <usagi>   Actually I think she mentioned there are 2 tiers
Aug 15 02:17:44 <mircea_popescu>   who's she ? and whether there's 2 or 18 is not really too important.
Aug 15 02:17:54 <usagi>   Well teek, didn't you actually invented the first CDO you know, teek.A and teek.B?
Aug 15 02:18:22 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC
Aug 15 02:18:35 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [ARS] 5 @ 0.009 = 0.045 BTC [-]
Aug 15 02:18:41 <teek>   i am honestly not sure, but teek.a and teek.b really have no relation other than name
Aug 15 02:18:59 <teek>   so if what mircea_popescu is doing is a cdo then no
Aug 15 02:19:10 <mircea_popescu>   i think it's pretty much by the book a cdo.
Aug 15 02:20:00 <kakobrekla>   someone should make a cdo from all pirate insured offers
Aug 15 02:20:22 <mircea_popescu>   that might be a great ideea actually.
Aug 15 02:20:41 <mircea_popescu>   tranche it 10/20/30/40 in 4 tiers
Aug 15 02:21:27 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 2 @ 0.99 = 1.98 BTC [-]
Aug 15 02:22:23 *   Luceo (~luceo@gateway/tor-sasl/luceo) has joined #bitcoin-assets
Aug 15 02:25:27 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [FPGAMINING] 1 @ 0.94 BTC [-]
Aug 15 02:25:29 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [JTME] 1 @ 0.99899 BTC
Aug 15 02:26:56 <mircea_popescu>   the only difference, teek, might be that in general cdos are based on fixed rate investments, which arguably mpoe bonds aren't, or at least eskimobob so argues.
Aug 15 02:27:11 *   eennaam has quit ()
Aug 15 02:27:13 <smickles>   oooh, i see some nifty bonds
Aug 15 02:27:19 <mircea_popescu>   o hai.
Aug 15 02:27:37 <patrickharnett>   yes, there is a lurking starfish
Aug 15 02:28:10 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 40 @ 0.05 = 2 BTC
Aug 15 02:28:20 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [TYGRR.BOND-P] 3 @ 0.9999 = 2.9997 BTC
Aug 15 02:28:56 <mircea_popescu>   patrickharnett so i guess this has the side advantage to you that you know when you'll be asked to repay : 30th of october or thereabouts.
Aug 15 02:29:02 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [DMC] 1 @ 0.05 BTC
Aug 15 02:29:34 <patrickharnett>   I didn't notice the 30'th date - wouldn't be a problem anyway
Aug 15 02:29:47 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32810 @ 0.000383 = 12.5662 BTC
Aug 15 02:29:48 <mircea_popescu>   well since the bonds die and repay on the 1st of nov
Aug 15 02:29:49 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18714 @ 0.00038423 = 7.1905 BTC
Aug 15 02:29:50 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 797 @ 0.00039267 = 0.313 BTC
Aug 15 02:29:51 <assbot>   [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5615 @ 0.00039477 = 2.2166 BTC
Aug 15 02:29:52 <mircea_popescu>   it'd be a few days prior.
Aug 15 02:30:09 <patrickharnett>   it's only 500+interest, it's not lots
Aug 15 02:30:11 <assbot>   [GLBSE] [GIGAMINING] 1 @ 1.1375 BTC
Aug 15 02:30:22 <mircea_popescu>   not this time.
Aug 15 02:30:32 <mircea_popescu>   if these are successfull any i will make larger ones.

So yeah. As clearly demonstrated by the many theoretical points of Deprived and by a couple practical points above.
4670  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Milk is a scammer. on: October 04, 2012, 01:20:38 AM
What an udderly moonstrous acowsation.

4671  Economy / Securities / Re: TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted. on: October 04, 2012, 12:56:22 AM
Also, remember that a scammer tag has a much higher burden of evidence than a civil case.

Certainly does. The main factors are: the blurry role of the staff (moderator or juge d'instruction?), the unpredictable process (judge/chief prosecutor/court scryer suddenly decides to back out of a case, leaving the situation in limbo; mediator person confronted with basic principles of jurisprudence declares that not being informed in such will have to ignore them) and the completely ad-hoc nature of claims, relief available, procedure followed and so forth.

This isn't a dig at you personally, nor is it a dig at any other moderator, the site and so forth. But it is meant to convey that complexity in disputes will only increase in time, and again: if you do it at all you have to do it all the time. At the very least some strategic decision to never do it, or else some guidelines to do it consistently and better would be in order.

Future customers?!
If there was evidence Goat was making a significant effort to work out a redemption scheme with GLBSE, I'd agree with you. But without that, I think a lot of people will give GLBSE the benefit of the doubt. But it's certainly a warning bell, especially since GLBSE doesn't seem to be making any effort to improve the redemption scheme. No matter what happens, the decision to delist caused significant harm to GLBSE's customers, and there's no evidence NEFARIO even considered that. However, if they respond to this by announcing delisting criteria, escalation rules, and a procedure for a sensible redemption after delisting, that would go a long way to recovering.

I'm just looking at the fact a couple assets delist/dissolve a day now. Some of them weren't even in distress.
4672  Economy / Securities / Re: TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted. on: October 04, 2012, 12:40:09 AM
You can't force yourself into a mediating position, nor is mediating by ultimatums likely to be productive. You're supposed to be investigating.
You're right.

I am officially dropping this investigation and am releasing all parties of any obligations. BadBear will now decide this, if he wants.
For what it's worth, I think declaring this situation to just not be resolvable by the forums "scammer tag" mechanism is a reasonable resolution as far as the forums goes.

Hopefully GLBSE's future customers will take into account the fact that GLBSE reserves the right to totally abandon its obligation to preserve their ownership interest by making a decision to delist the asset and will exercise this right if it feels like it with no obligation to explain or defend that decision.


Future customers?!
4673  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Accounts Manager Resigns From Bitcoin Magazine on: October 04, 2012, 12:22:26 AM
I bet you it's nothing to do with Wright.
4674  Economy / Securities / Re: Critique of the various businesses run by usagi on: October 04, 2012, 12:21:20 AM
Usagi should be viewed as a case study regarding what happens when a person with nearly zero knowledge of finance and business tries to manage a venture (let alone multiple ventures at once.)

Precisely.
4675  Economy / Securities / Re: TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted. on: October 04, 2012, 12:20:07 AM
If they wouldn't have agreed to that, I guarantee that you could have found an exchange that would.

How can you guarantee this?!

I will always try to assume the best unless the other side has enough evidence to counter anything I can think of.

This may be in your mind the high road, but in practice it's actually quite broken, as someone else has explained above. The legal system works as it works (arbitration of claims actually made, not arbitration of potential claims) for very good practical reasons, it's not just idiosyncratic peculiarity.
4676  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Bryan Micon's List of Non-BCST Ponzi's Still Running (with credit rating) on: October 03, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
But - yeah, bank runs are a big problem for reasons I've already given. It ain't rocket science. If the majority of depositors leave a bank within a month - the bank's fucked, and if the bank isn't FDIC (or with CUs, NCUA) insured, remaining depositors are probably fucked, too. OTOH, as you point out, if the majority of depositors withdraw from a ponzi operation - the ponzi op's fucked (well, he'd probably just leave), and the remaining depositors are probably fucked, too. So - could indicate someone's operating a ponzi, but that's no reason for Shit-Brush to get all worked up because his ponzi predictions have almost all come true.
I can't believe I missed replying to this. This is 100% completely and totally wrong. Bank runs are a 100% solved problem. Bank runs do not screw depositors.

It's not worth going into detail here, but the basic idea is this simple: Bank runs can only directly cause a liquidity crisis. They can only cause an equity crisis if a bank or lender is so poorly capitalized they should never have gone into business in the first place. Regardless of how much of a run you have, the total value of both the lender's capitalization and its loan equity will always be enough to ensure the depositors get back both their deposits and all earned interest. There may be a delay, but the money will get back to them. (And it's not hard to avoid even the delay, however, the lender will wind up broke with its capitalization  gone.)

That lenders don't structure to avoid this problem, despite how easy it is, just shows how inept they are and how indifferent they are to the interests of their depositors. (Or, more likely, how they are too poorly capitalized to operate properly or are outright scamming.)

Any time a bank or lender claims that depositors didn't get their money back (other than a delay where all principal and most interest is returned) because of a bank run, they are lying. The truth is most likely either that they were drastically undercapitalized to begin with , they made bad loans, they operated a Ponzi scheme, or they outright stole from their depositors.


Yeah. There's a reason uppity clerks don't get to run banks IRL.
4677  Economy / Scam Accusations / Milk is a scammer. on: October 03, 2012, 09:41:48 PM
Proof is in the pudding.


4678  Economy / Securities / Re: Critique of the various businesses run by usagi on: October 03, 2012, 09:15:57 PM
QUOTE OF ENTIRE POST

Quoting entire post - just so everyone can see what I was responding to in case it changes.

BMF -- CPA -- NYAN
October Special Letter to Shareholders
by: Usagi


Dear Investor;

  My name is usagi, and as you know I run three separate companies on the GLBSE:

1. BMF -- Bitcoin Mining Fund -- a sector fund which only invests in mining securities and mining hardware.
2. CPA -- The Bitcoin Insurance Company
3. NYAN -- Nyancat Financial, a CDO-like general market fund.

In this letter I would like to address many of the concerns people have raised recently about the businesses I run and reassure investors of my plan for the future.

The first and most obvious question is, "what the hell is going on!" but I think to understand that, you will need to know what happened. So I'll start there.

First, BMF.
Back in may/june, I launched BMF as my flagship business. We raised around 1500 bitcoins. However, we were fighting an uphill battle as a sector fund investing in mining. The difficulty was rising by solid percentage points each week, and the USD/BTC price kept rising.. and rising.. and rising. BMF did well considering the value of our hardware. When BMF IPO'd, we started at 1 BTC a share. 1 BTC was worth $5 and a single was worth $599. In other words, one share of BMF was worth 1/120 of a Bitforce FPGA single. If one bitforce single was 832 mh/s, that means one share of BMF produced income valued at around 6.9 mhash/share. GIGAMINING, to compare, produced income corresponding to 5mhash/share.

As the weeks turned into months, the bitcoin price steadily rose. Today, one bitcoin is worth $12.70 and as a result the price of BMF has fallen. It's true that BMF has lost money in terms of bitcoins, but look at the reality of the company's operation: At 0.48/share today, 1 share of BMF is now worth $6.10 -- this means one share of BMF is now worth 1/100 of a single. By careful trading and expansion, we increased the intrinsic value of BMF -- we increased our effective hardware under management (via ownership in funds).

In other words, while bonds like GIGAMINING are still worth 5mhash/share today, BMF went from 6.9mHash/share to 8.47mHash/share. We gained. I know it doesn't look like it, but we did a LOT better than mining bonds. We did what any normal company would do.

But the exchange rate placed BMF in a difficult situation. Many people believed we lost tons of money -- this was not true. We were simply exposed to exchange rate risk because we invested entirely in mining. ALL mining stocks went down. GIGAMINING went from 1.50 to .55. We went down from 1 to .50. So yes, from the standpoint of bitcoins, we did in fact lose money, just like everyone else. And I'm sorry, but that does not make me a scammer.

If the USD/BTC price stays the same or goes down, BMF will go up in bitcoins. The BTC price cannot rise forever.

So, what the hell is going on with BMF? It's simple. Nothing. We're plugging along, paying divs and reinvesting. BMF has a bright future ahead of it. And, what's more, I have a very special suprise for BMF investors going forward, which I will tell you later on in this article. But first, let's talk CPA.

CPA
After I launched BMF, I was excited at the prospect of launching a "real business" on the GLBSE. So I got together with some of my investor buddies online and I launched CPA. CPA was a great idea, it really was. We sold about 2,500 BTC worth of shares. Maybe 3,500 -- somewhere in that range. The problem with CPA is that no one would trust us. After a couple of weeks it became apparent that we couldn't sign any contracts because everyone thought I was a scammer. Here I was, the new kid on the block, with BMF and CPA and 5,000 coins of other people's money. So I spoke with the members of CPA's round table and we came up with a plan. First, we would invest into the community.

We put the money into the following areas:
1,000 bitcoins into BMF
500 bitcoins with Patrick harnett (Starfish Bank)
500 bitcoins into Gamma Bitcoin Fund
500 bitcoins with Hashking
500 bitcoins with Imsaguy's EIEIO fund.

It looked something like that.

Magically, as soon as we did that, we started signing contracts -- a lot of contracts! We signed a few thousand (bitcoins worth of) contracts for Pirate. One particular contract with ciuciu was valued at over 2,000 coins. Another with kakobrekla was worth over 1,100 coins. We had many smaller contracts as well. Due to the extreme popularity of pirate insurance, we decided to cancel all existing contracts (except Kakobrekla's) and start YARR.

First, why we didn't cancel kakobrekla's contract. The idea was that we would risk 1,000 bitcoins on insuring pirate. If pirate blew up, we were planning to pay, and come out as the heroes of the day. I truly believed that if I paid that money, everyone would love CPA and sign contracts with us. It was a calculated risk. I told myself that it would be the best free advertising we could ever buy.

ok, so YARR. We sold 2,800 shares of YARR at 1.5 bitcoins per share.

Then about a month later pirate collapsed. What did we get out of YARR? We lost 100 bitcoins. not a huge amount. We basically bought back all the shares. There's still 30 or 40 out I think, some small number. People are holding out trying to sell at 1.20 and up. Well, what can I say. A contract is a contract, they will be bought out at 1. So overall YARR was another way that CPA proved we could be trusted. We bought back 2,800 bitcoins worth of YARR shares.

And we paid out 1100 to Kakobrekla as well.

We saved asses, there is no doubt. We saved people's ass big time. BIG TIME.

But then something terrible happened. Gamma bitcoin fund was in trouble because of JRO. DeadTerra shut down withdrawls for 2 weeks. During this time, GBF started to lose more and more money. When we finally got back the funds, there wasn't even 400 left in CPA's account, and we had to trade for assets. We were hurt but it wasn't major.

Then Hashking blew up.

Then Imsaguy blew up.

We managed to get 400 out of Starfish Bank, bless Patrick's immortal soul, but the last 100 (which is the last 100 we owe, to Kakobrekla) cannot be repaid (until who knows when?)

All of the people I just mentioned, incidentally, are doing their best to pay us back. We have recieved payments (some recent, some not) from all of them. The point is that CPA does not have the money NOW. As a result we have set ALL of the money we held with them to zero.

So what's left? CPA has less than 40,000 shares outstanding, and here are our assets:

1,213 shares of BMF
1 share of YARR
283 shares of NYAN.C
604 shartes of OBSI.HRPT

In the end, the only thing we have of value in CPA is the mining fund I run myself. So all in all, CPA is worth about 0.02 per share right now.

Now let's talk NYAN briefly, before I explain to you what my plan is for the future.

Nyancat Financial. Ahh, the magic of a CDO. NYAN.A is fully insured and guaranteed by CPA. When investots demanded OUT, I sold assets and bought back over 450 shares of NYAN.A and over 700 shares of NYAN.B in just 2 weeks. But I am not superman. And many NYAN investors want to know what is going on. It's simple, the market is crashing, and while we do our best nothing can stop a general market fund from tanking when the general market is tanking.

That being said, the NYAN funds are doing suprisingly well. Except for NYAN.C, which was basically 50% pirate and 50% OBSI.HRPT. Both of them crashed, so NYAN.C is worth zero. In almost every NYAN letter to shareholders I cautioned people against investing too much into NYAN.C -- let's hope they listened. What does the NYAN.C contract say?

Investments are chosen entirely based on their interest rate without regard to the risk profile.

Well, I am sorry that pirate and obsi and V.HRL and BIF.LOANS and god knows what all crashed. I provided you the chance to invest in a diversified portfolio of risky-risky securities. Nothing like that existed on the market. Unfortunately it turned out to be a bad investment choice, however there is hope. Hope for NYAN as well as for CPA, which I will explain in a moment, in my plan for the future.

So, what about NYAN.B? Well when FPGAMINING and JRO's ventures (BDT, REBATE, and ZIP.A) all crashed, we lost over 100 bitcoins. So I transferred assets from .C into .B and tried to sell them down. I also transferred some of .C's assets to .A. I was luckily able to sell all the high risk assets in A, and now A has no high risk assets. But .B had to take risky assets from .C, and there simply was no time to deal with the situation. I was faced with multiple defaults, all at the same time:

1. BDK.BND crashed
2. FPGAMINING crashed
3. UDN went to zero (BMF went down from .60 to .50)
4. Goat's assets were delisted (we had 25 BTC of goat's TYGRR.BOND-A in NYAN.A)
5. OBSI.HRPT started crashing
6. The market crashed in general and stuff got sold down

There was almost nothing I could do -- nowhere I could invest that was not blowing up. NYAN.B is mandated as follows:

Investments are chosen entirely based on sector; we seek to invest in the bitcoin community at large; but again, no mining, and no pirate.

Basically, NYAN.B is the middle of the road, company fund. We invest in Satoshidice, we invest in BitVPS. We invest in Bitcoin Racing Syndicate. Feedzebirds advertising agency. We invest in lots of stuff like that. A lot of these companies are doing OK but for some reason the market is trashing them. FZB for example, IPO'd at 0.1 -- today it is worth 0.02, much like CPA. But there's nothing wrong with FeedZeBirds. One of the guys who runs it (Erik) also runs SatoshiDice. On September 27th just 5 days ago there was news that Ira was hiring a developer to work on a new webpage, and that FZB would partner or be integrated with coinapult. So why did the market sell them down? We really don't know. But that is why NYAB.B is having trouble -- because honest, good companies are being sold down and we are suffering the consequences.

Many people are upset that "usagi is stealing money" or "scamming". Nothing could be further from the truth. We invested good money in companies like Feed Ze Birds -- we invested over 100 bitcoins in them. And now they are being sold down. It's not our fault, and we honestly believe there is value in Feed Ze birds and many of our other investments. We are simply caught in a crashing market, and there is nothing we can do. Or is there?

Usagi's Plan for the Future

This is the part you have been waiting for. This is what is going to make everything right -- even the stuff that isn't our fault.

Right now, it should be obvious that I have staked everything on one cental point -- BMF.

CPA owns over 1,200 BMF.

NYAN.A owns over 1,000 BMF.

I also own, personally, 800 shares of BMF (250 of which are non-saleable management fee shares). My personal ownership is being mentioned because it will play a part in my plan.

So here's the plan. CPA is still in operation. Based on our NAV of 0.02, we are making around 2% a week on our BMF holdings. I know that CPA has lost a lot of money but it has a FUTURE. We are in talks now for some major contracts, and we still have contracts with Luceo's VPS, and several other customers. CPA has a future. CPA is making money, and although it would be foolish for us to pay a dividend in this situation CPA is by no means out of the picture. We will FIGHT. We will WIN. We will persevere. That is that. News of CPA's demise is laughably premature.

CPA is going to be a big company someday. Mark my words.

And what of NYAN? NYAN.C is worthless now, isn't it? No, not really. Notice how NYAN.A holds over 1,000 BMF shares. That provides an income of 10 BTC a week or more. This alone is about enough to pay the dividend on NYAN.A and have funds overflow into NYAN.B. And it isn't like NYAN.B doesn't make any money. Slowly but surely, we will rebuild NYAN.B, and overflow into NYAN.C. Those shares which were worthless? They'll still pay dividends. It won't be easy, but I am staking NYAN's future, as well as CPA's on BMF. I just can't trust the money with anyone else.

What about NYAN.B? Now is the time to close NYAN.B. Let's agree to quit while we're ahead. NYAN.B has assets which are very close to 1-- hopefully close enough to allow investors to get out cleanly. Since inception, NYAN has paid more than .13 bitcoins of interest per share. That is substantial. Investors might not get 1 bitcoin if OBSI.HRPT goes to zero, but if we can sell out at current prices .95 is not out of the question. So NYAN.B is under aggressive buyback right now. It's NOT expanding. Please don't sell your NYAN.B too cheaply! Remember, it recieves income from NYAN.A beyond the 1% NYAN.A makes.

Now, NYAN.A. NYAN.A is the KEY to ALL of Nyan. Read this NEXT part VERY carefully because it is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

Right now, as of right now, NYAN.A has 956 shares outstanding and owns (among other assets) 1026 shares of BMF. These BMF shares pay about 0.01 per share per week.

That means NYAN.A does not actually need any other asset to support it's dividend, just the extant shares of BMF. For the record however, BMF is only about 50% of the portfolio of NYAN.A. So NYAN.A generates considerable overflow into NYAN.B and NYAN.C. Our plan for NYAN is to use this overflow to buy back shares of NYAN.B and support NYAN.C shareholders. This plan will work, but it may take up to 3 or 4 months.

Now, BMF.

BMF is really the key, isn't it? Everything now depends on BMF.

In order to make this work I have to make an effort to defend the share price of BMF at .50 per share. This will be difficult as the price of bitcoins is continuing to rise and ALL ASSETS. ALL BUSINESSES will decline in price. But I will try. I will make one last effort, one great, giant last stand.

The first act I will perform is to voluntarily return the 250 management shares of BMF that I own. This will raise the value of BMF to over .50 bitcoins and encourage people to invest in BMF.

Seconly, tomorrow morning I will buy 200 bitcoins on mtgox (well, I will buy them on friday, tomorrow I will wire the money). I control via personal account and funds:

1026 BMF in NYAN.A
1213 BMF in CPA
 963 BMF in my personal account (250 of which are management shares).

There are currently 5,132 outstanding shares of BMF. This means that I control 3202/5132 of the fund. After I return my management fee shares I will 'control' 2952 shares of 4882. In other words, /other people/ own 1,930 shares of BMF. 200 bitcoins will currently buy 400+ shares of BMF; just over 20% of what other people besides myself have.

These 200 bitcoins will be used in 2 ways:

1. I will order two Bitforce FPGA singles for BMF;
2. I will defend the price of BMF at .50 per share (or .49 until BMF starts selling shares to buy hardware).
3. I will loan the rest of my current personal stake in BMF (~750 shares) to NYAN to defend the price of NYAN.A and NYAN.B along with CPA.

I believe this push will encourage people to invest in BMF. As BMF gets more and more hardware, it will increase in value and in cashflow and it will help NYAN to buy back NYAN.B and support NYAN in general; it will also help CPA grow.

I have staked everything on BMF. I'm pouring my heart into this. I am transferring my management fee shares back as we speak.

The value of BMF is now decidenly over .50 per share. NYAN.A, B and C have a future. CPA has a furture. BMF has a very bright future.

I hope you are with me on this. I will defend BMF because it is the right thing to do. Please recognize I am doing my best here and that a crashing mining market really is not my fault.

If you buy shares of BMF or NYAN.A it will help me. I will do my best for you as my shareholder. If you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at bmf@tsukino.ca.

If you are a large investor I will give you 10% off shares of NYAN.A or BMF. I am desperate to make this work and I think that you can see that with the way I am backing this with my own personal money. I have absolutely no intention of giving up and I will fight for my companies till  the very end.

BMF: CAMELOT LIVES! We will get thru this! One way or another!

---

one last thing. It's 4:12 AM right now. 4am, 5am every night. I don't know how this keeps happening but my schedule is ruined. I'm really tired from all this. I've been working and communicating with people a lot on here recently. Please stop calling me a scammer ok? I really don't make much money for the work I do, and now that I have given up my management fees I make nothing. If it is really not obvious to you that I'm not a scammer then anything is a scammer. milk is a scammer. Ok? So i'm not a scammer. I have a job too, so I need to go to sleep. This letter is going to have to last you quite a while. I need to focus on my work now because this has been draining me. And after all who do you think is going to pay for the 200 bitcoins I am buying tomorrow. So give it a rest please.

The quoted post is so funny. Cheesy
4679  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Nefario GLBSE on: October 03, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
You find nothing wrong with selling a service and then not fully doing it?

Depends entirely on the nature of the service contracted for, which in this case you are unsure of what you have purchased. You have an obligation to yourself, and to those who have invested in your projects to understand completely the venue in which you are offering that investment. Whether by your own inattention to the rules, your inability to stay abreast of changes in the terms, or your own ill-considered attack on the market you have failed in your responsibility to your investors and have not maintained even the most basic level of integrity in offering a service.

How is your  ill-informed and half-cocked approach to running a business deserving of special consideration that you should be permitted to be completely irresponsible and still enjoy access to the marketplace? The service of the GLBSE is to provide a marketplace, NOT to insure you a certian level of profit, NOT to offer you endless access to victims for your piss-poor business practices, NOT to cover for your errors in judgement, ethics, or simple basic business procedure, and most assuredly NOT a place of refuge for somebody who is actively being investigated by the SEC for fraudulently offering investment schemes.

"Not fully doing it" is not based on your fantasies of allowing you to run roughshod over every measure of business ethics and honest trade. Your practices have caught up with you, and you are beginning to see the collapse and investigation phase of your demise. Get used to it, it will get a lot uglier for you here, and your pathetic cries of injustice are falling on deaf ears here. Especially given that you are screaming in the wrong place- THIS IS NOT GLBSE. Although there is significant overlap in user bases, THIS IS NOT GLBSE. Take your issues over to GLBSE and see what happens. Here you are just another scammer trying to screw a few more pennies out of everyone, after you have had the door slammed in your face.

Too bad for you little scammer boy.

Unless the SEC is now operating out of Viet-Nam I find it rather incredible that goat's being investigated. Were you thinking GLBBQ?

You find nothing wrong with selling a service and then not fully doing it?

I am not sure if this was a reply to me, but I was just curious in how you interpret the GLBSE TOS because on a discussion on the interpretation of contracts listed on GLBSE you seemed to agreed with the statement that things not in the contract can still be done.  Things listed in the contract allow for one of the parties to 'reserve the right' to do something, but not necessarily only do things that are listed in the contract.  By this interpretation, GLBSE reserves the right to do any and all things in its TOS.  There are also implied agreements when using the GLBSE system.  No where in the TOS says that GLBSE will list a security after the fee is made, but they do it.  By having the authority to list a security, GLBSE also has the authority to remove a security from the exchange.

Anyway, I would also argue that whatever is said in a contract or TOS may not always be the right thing to do.  As you may remember with our contract dispute; I took responsibility for my badly written contract and paid out of my own pocket.

In my opinion the right thing to do is to allow the securities to be relisted, allow a buyback of all the securities at whatever value was agreed to, and then remove them after all accounts have been cleared.

Well, wasn't Nefario proposing that everything not specifically stated in the contract will be construed by a public vote? Or was that about something else.
4680  Economy / Securities / Re: [GLBSE] BDK.BND (1%/week) *IN DEFAULT* on: October 03, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
If I have moderate-poor luck, repayment will rely on my employment income,

What employment income? Last I checked you were a jobless do-nothing, sitting on his couch all day actively declining job offers relying on internet magic money to make you rich.

Sir, your signature! Where did you get it? Can I get one too?
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