It's just simulated mumbo jumbo. Pre-order vendors have been issuing overly optimistic simulation results since forever. Until they have test chips in hand and some solid measured results everything will remain up in the air.

...don't forget Avalon and their outright theft using the pre-order model.

Even *IF* the vendor in question acts honorably then there's still huge risks of delays and the investor gets to eat all those losses as well. When one pre-orders gear for delivery far into the future they're forced to speculate on the profitability of that gear if & when it ever arrives. Obviously some of knc's early investors couldn't possibly have done this with any accuracy due to predictably unpredictable events(new vendors emerging...etc). I personally find it difficult to accurately predict the profitability of gear I can buy for delivery even a few weeks into the future and it's getting worse now with more vendors entering the field.

We'll get there anyway, the market will always seek equilibrium. Mining will eventually be only marginally profitable just as it has been in the past. The reason in hand gear commands a premium is because there's historically been a tightly restricted supply and lots of pent up demand due to non-performance by pre-order vendors. That is changing as more and more pre-order gear is introduced to the secondary market and more vendors emerge.

Understood, thanks for clarifying.

I'll leave the speculators to speculate. I frankly find posts by people cursing their day job because it prevented them from cleaning up by flipping crypto stocks rather disturbing.


When you quote him those of us that have him on ignore are tricked into reading his post anyway.

The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral. The gear that hasn't been built yet mind you. Yes knc is offering refunds and I wouldn't even have given them a second look otherwise, but we need to move beyond this ridiculous sales model. Just because you can get a refund doesn't mean you don't have losses. Those that are ordering are plainly interested in BTC and as such have numerous investment opportunities. When knc announced their plans to develop this hardware those that invested made their choice. Whether it was the right choice or not remains to be seen, but if they paid with BTC at that time then they're already way behind because they locked in an exchange rate that was most likely lower than it is now. If they paid with fiat then they likely could've purchased BTC directly and been better off. Again, nothing against knc as they've acted in good faith thus far, I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors.

Expecting management to do what management says they'll do is not unreasonable.

I never bought a share as I saw no upside.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2859837#msg2859837

I bought a small number of shares for the same reason everyone did. If they're legit then the upside is tremendous, but their actions are not the least bit encouraging and simply saying "well, they've always sucked at communicating" isn't really persuasive. It says to me either they're incompetent or they're lying. Like I said, I ain't selling, but they're not helping me to reach a point where I'm comfortable buying more.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding at work here. Simply having more shares does not entitle one to advanced knowledge of the inner workings of a company, save in the case of companies that have board members or an advisory board. Company officers that provide such information are indeed benefiting one group of virtual shareholders and putting another group at a disadvantage, but there's no way to police this. The transaction that you've referenced with my company occurred at a share price of .61 and every investor that held shares at that time benefited as they were afforded an opportunity to sell their shares at a higher price and their shares then received higher dividends. As this transaction was necessarily preceded by a public shareholder vote due to bASIC-Mining's unchanging contract everything was done transparently in the light of day.

Cheers.

It was plainly losing momentum, mostly I believe due to Mt Gox's inability to accomplish pretty much anything effectively...ever. BTC will be more stable when Gox rightly takes it's place amongst the dinosaurs and dodo birds of history. This space moves at warp speed. Adapt or die.

Don't even get me started on AMC, VMC, ACM, ACTM or whatever ks's ticker is now. I've never bought a share.

I greatly prefer LC, as I think the risk/reward profile at this point is far better, but LC is not doing themselves any favors. If management hasn't sold their shares then keeping their word and offering proof should be a no-brainer. Why has this not happened and why doesn't it seem to bother anyone else?

I don't like pre-orders, particularly pre-orders from companies that have yet to deliver products. I don't have a specific problem with knc, I'm actually considering them for future business, I have a problem with the pre-order model which has brutally punished investors in the past. Even those that paid knc in BTC months ago are very unlikely to recover their investment in BTC. It's a horrible model from the perspective of an investor and the market can and will do better, but apparently knc will not be among the companies leading the way in this regard.

We don't. We need updates that say something specific. We need management to act in good faith.

The crypto investing landscape is littered with the financial corpses of those that have invested "on faith".

The failure to lock their shares or prove they've done so is a big deal even if cheerleaders in this thread want to sweep it under the rug.

No, but it would be nice.

I expected them to do what they said(lock their shares), but they did not. Now I expect them to communicate effectively, but they are not.

PR guy should be fired yesterday. Whatever he's being paid it's too much. They can pick a guy from the crowd and get better results.

What's LCs motivation for staying silent and not telling investors any specifics about their progress? It's surely not to protect their their market share as they don't have one yet. It's surely not to protect their technology as their technology is currently well behind what others have. Too busy? That doesn't make sense as they posted something yesterday. Their actions don't make sense and are leading to this information vacuum which is predictably leading to speculation and anxiety.

LC's two posts yesterday were very important and many invested money based on those two fairly generic posts, yet nobody in charge at LC could be bothered to issue a statement on btct.co or even update the OP which hasn't been altered since July 27 31. Their handling of information and management of expectations is at best amateurish.

I don't believe they will fail to deliver first gen stuff(which is actually 2nd gen stuff for the ASIC BTC mining community), but they've offered pre-orders for the very same gear at lower prices for November delivery when they could easily have simply said "no more pre-orders", "no more zero interest loans", "no more offloading 100% of the risk to investors/customers" and instead offered hardware for immediate delivery at premium prices in November and beyond. I understand the appeal of the pre-order model when a vendor is green as they don't likely have the VC funding to cover NRE costs, but knc is essentially playing with house money now and has had a chance to differentiate themselves...they passed.

I agree that knc is most likely legit, but why do they need to perpetuate this insanely risky(for the buyer) pre-order model at this point? AM and the secondary market have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that in hand hardware for immediate delivery commands a significant premium over hardware paid for now and delivered in x months down the road. Knc plainly has the funding to become the second major player to only sell what they actually have, but they're passing on the opportunity to change the scenery and likely leaving money on the table doing so. Instead bitfury will likely wear this crown and it will erode knc's future sales.

Hi ventolin. Burnside has never made any claims that he's going to police the exchange that I've seen. Doing so would be a full time job+ in and of itself and would open up a whole new can of worms. Instead he offers a minimal layer of protection by preventing issuers from altering their own contracts and ensuring that shareholder votes are conducted fairly. In addition he's made it very clear in every conceivable way that virtual investors are responsible for their own actions. Exchange moderators are responsible for rating assets and ensuring that issuers follow their contracts. Those that do not do so tend to draw the ire of exchange moderators who vote those virtual assets down over time.

I understand your concerns about shareholder dilution and I share them, but the only additional shares that have ever been issued by bASIC-Mining were issued for a special equipment purchase that was authorized by majority shareholder vote. All shareholders, regardless of the size of their holdings, have benefited from said purchase in the form of increased dividends and opportunities to sell holdings at higher prices. If there's a more fair way to conduct these procedures then I'm sure we'd all like to move in that direction.

There's any number of ways in which large shareholders of any asset can attempt to manipulate share prices and all virtual investors must remain vigilant and protect their own interests regardless of the size of their investment.

Cheers.

Of course they're shipping MRs. They're just shipping them to themselves just like they did the infamous Luke Jr. unit on April fools. BFL is not run by idiots, it's run by criminals.

It'll all be over soon. With all these new vendors coming out of the woodwork BFL is toast. Sonny the con's parole ends soon and the jailbird will fly to the next scam.