I just realized something about RBF - please correct any misunderstandings I may have, I'm not a btc developer.
We are all operating under the assumption that a quantum computer doesn't exist - but I'm not so sure that there isn't, or that there won't be pretty soon. In any case, the greatest safeguard we have against such a possibility is storing coins in addresses that have no prior spending in them. So when a QC is on the loose, the best one can do is to spend the full amount in order to not leave any coins behind for priv. key extrapolation and hacking. But this is based on a first seen-first serve scenario. RBF would allow an attacker to see a transaction, extrapolate the priv key and issue a respending with a higher fee, hijacking one's money.
So, from what I understand, RBF reduces the futureproofing / quantum resistance of BTC. Is there a way where it can only be implemented by honoring the initial transactions, plus a higher fee - for those desiring to jump the queue - and reject any other attempts to change the destination?
These things have zero to do with one another. If ECDSA is strongly broken somehow, in that the private key is obtainable from the public, then any transaction broadcast publicly spending a coin is stealable. Whether or not miners are implementing RBF or not doesn't matter. |
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Such useless effort to block sites, can be bypassed easily thru vpn or proxy tho,different if they do arrest bitcoin user
Not useless, will make people be afraid that in the future they do arrest people or cut the fiat-BTC channel, so people will avoid invest in Bitcoins and the adoption will stop. Yeah kinda like when water sees a net ahead in the river and decides to flow uphill to avoid it. |
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Let me rephrase the question for you:
If a fiat token is worth 10k sat, is the token worthless?
Lets take this apart. Your statement has the form: If A then B.
Here A is a definite link between the fiat token and the bitcoin token. B states that the fiat token is worthless. This can only be true then if the bitcoin token is also worthless.
I'm not sure where to go with this. Perhaps some context is necessary because I don't see any reason the fiat tooken and the bitcoin token would become simultaneously worthless at a given exchange rate between the two.
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What the everliving fuck when will you people learn? How long is the list of escrow services that vanished?
Multisig two party escrow WORKS and avoids this problem!!
2crow.org
*face palm*
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Greetings LOG choppers and stackers! Update on recent work on the fo-realz-woodcoin project https://github.com/funkshelper/fo-realz-woodcoin: 1) Fixed disk load issue. It came down to a line in main.h, which afaik all non-sha256 altcoins built from the satoshi codebase have: (from main.h) bool CheckIndex() const
{
/** Scrypt is used for block proof-of-work, but for purposes of performance the index internally uses sha256.
* This check was considered unneccessary given the other safeguards like the genesis and checkpoints. */
return true; //CheckProofOfWork(GetPoWHash(), nBits);
} Where I had to add the comment and the default "return true". What's going on here is that when the blocks are loaded from disk they are not being checked for proper proof of work. They are checked when they are downloaded and relayed only. 2) I added a signed tarball in the repo. This being a paranoiac release after all, we shouldn't trust github. 3) I added a genesis vpatch and vpatch sig. This is how "therealbitcoin" development proceeds, so I threw it in there, as this is a fork of that project. 4) On that note, we may be the first to have forked that particular wallet. Let me know if you know another coin that has done so. 5) More on that note, this underscores a salient point for altcoins: the "we can take any developments and add them to bitcoin" argument works both ways. Many people visualize general public coin development as occuring in altcoins (testnets) and if the development works - it might get imported into bitcoin wallets. In fact the real front line of the battle field is the bitcoin network proper, as that's where all the TXs and hacks seem to be occuring. Instead, we will be taking bitcoin wallet safeguards and adding them to our codes. 6) This fo-realz project like many here has been a boon to my understanding of the satoshi codebase. What has been learned here will be continuously applied to make woodcoin as long-lived and usable a coin as possible. Keep on choppin and stackin and enjoy your holidays!! |
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Y'all gonna love this one. Check it: https://github.com/funkshelper/fo-realz-woodcoinArmed and fully operational woodcoinatron. Builds statically with buildroot / musl, thanks to the hard work of asciilifeform! At the moment the thing has trouble loading block from disk after a restart but I'm going to post it here anyway, because the hard part is dispatched. Node loads and syncs entire woodcoin chain like a champ 1. No leveldb needed. If you are are familiar with "therealbitcoin" http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html and you are somehow reading this message, you will be stoked. If you're not familiar with "therealbitcoin", that's cool too. If things go well you won't need to be. This is basically like the secret weapon we bring out if the shit really hits the fan. If you are paranoid enough to want to build your own compiler and avoid as many third party libraries as possible, this is what you'll want to use. If you just wanna keep chopping, stacking, and spending like you been doing, then please continue. We got your back yo. Keep it real - funkenstein_the_dwarf 1) By "like a champ" I mean, actually doing so, though at a slower speed than any other woodcoin client. |
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How do you know that Bitcoin (since you obviously refer to it in your appeal) is actually such a tool? We don't even know who is behind creating it in the first place, lol...
We can only guess what real ends its maker(s) can be pursuing
Well here's one I can answer  We know that Bitcoin is such a tool because we can look at it and see everything about it. It is public. All transactions - all blocks and network communications - are public and plain text. Just take a look and see! [bs snipped] All blocks are public, i.e. for everyone to see, right? Yes all blocks are public. Bitcoin is a public coin. The money supply, all (on-chain) transactions, all coinbase transactions - detalis of all relevant algorithms - current address of every existing satoshi - are publicly available. This is not "an economic model" nor something to be debated: it's just how the thing works. Merry Christmas to you!  |
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Hey FTD! Great to see you still chopping away at this wicked coin cant wait to see whats coming! Thanks l8nit3! Great to see you too, was wondering where you were hiding. One thing I have been working on is a minimal version of woodcoin. There's a github repo at the moment: https://github.com/funkshelper/woodcoin-minimalor clone with: git clone https://github.com/funkshelper/woodcoin-minimal.gitCurrently I have managed to get rid of all gui, all windows, all mac references, all miniupnpc stuff, all dnsseed references, and a few other things. There's 1.2 MB of code but it still runs all functions needed for the woodcoin network: chopping and stacking. It's command line only but if you like a simpler package, give it a shot. We'll be chipping away at it in the meantime. It does require that you use addnode <node> add or -connrect=<node> the first time you run, because hardcoded nodes have been removed. On subsequent starts it keeps a file to check nodes it previously found. ~FTD~ |
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How do you know that Bitcoin (since you obviously refer to it in your appeal) is actually such a tool? We don't even know who is behind creating it in the first place, lol...
We can only guess what real ends its maker(s) can be pursuing
Well here's one I can answer We know that Bitcoin is such a tool because we can look at it and see everything about it. It is public. All transactions - all blocks and network communications - are public and plain text. Just take a look and see! As to who is behind it, that's only important historically and in terms of whatever stash they might have, which could be as much as 8% of all [current] coins it is said. Who is behind arabic numerals, and what was their motivation? Who was the first to refine gold? Anyway, in this case you can go read Satoshi and draw your own conclusion. |
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If you rob me of my CC, you may get some goodies (buy some gift cards & sell them in the 'digital goods' section of this forum, for instance), but I can simply report this to the CC company and be out 0 BTC.
If I rob you of your "USD" notes, no such luck.
ftfy I had my wallet stolen the other day, but my keys were backed up and encrypted so.. hey lost nothing except the wallet. After moving the funds to a new wallet I also knew with 100% certainty that nobody had secretly diluted the supply leaving me with less value. |
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your "noncounterfeitable tokens" can become as useless and as easily as the counterfeitable ones (to you personally). In fact, even more easily, for your own insignificance and the insignificance of those "noncounterfeitable tokens"...
Well this is a very important point thanks. When we are staring the Eagle in the face, the unknown, the hostile universe, our exchange commodities aren't gonna help us. We can't eat public coin just like we can't eat fiat. Nor will it necessarily appease any man or other beast.
And if you think that the "genuine" tokens somehow make you smarter (than the "bad guys" with a big gun out there), while the fake ones... well, less so, then you are in for a rude awakening
I'd like to hear more about this. In general the false dichotomy of "bad guys" and "good guys" is not always so useful, but if your goal is not being robbed - then using a tool which makes it harder for bad guys to rob you seems like a good idea. Wouldn't you say? |
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Nodes
/woodcoind getpeerinfo
"addr" : "199.231.215.253:8338",
"addr" : "45.55.152.37:42496",
"addr" : "144.76.238.2:8338",
"addr" : "46.101.175.137:8338",
"addr" : "85.25.214.175:8338",
"addr" : "37.59.24.15:47037",
"addr" : "[2a01:4f8:201:1401::2]:33805",
"addr" : "188.134.72.213:54461",
"addr" : "192.157.254.152:35594",
"addr" : "[2601:8b:8001:bf43:28d6:8cab:cbb2:773b]:56701",
"addr" : "71.59.104.158:57092",
"addr" : "104.238.169.142:61770",
"addr" : "85.38.56.34:49629",
"addr" : "91.52.236.97:63244",
OK which one of all y´all brought the magic chainsaw? What is this artforz-the-dwarf or something?
Difficulty hit 112 last night, and I'm sitting here scratching my beard and resting on my axe wondering what's going on.
Anyone?
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Yes because we need something to compare to what the value of funbuck is. What if funbuck wasn't depending on bitcoin, how would you know that 1 funbuck was worth ~2.3 mBTC?
ftfy  |
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OK, have fun on your new inflatochain. I'll be sticking the the one with the hard cap. But think of it this way - even if you are on an inflating chain.. like doge or something, fedcoin, whatever, you are still using a public coin. The money supply is public. Compare that to the counterfeitables: infinitely counterfeitable at any moment, representative of nothing. Money supply always invisible. IKR? Srsly, there are still people out there who will trade goods and services for the stuff!! lol right?
Are you really that dumb (nonsequitur or no nonsequitur, lol)? After all, the state can just come after you, take all your wealth and even your life (you were financing terrorism, put up armed resistance and police returned fire). Why this is not likely to happen (unless you are really financing terrorism or do some other nasty things)? Since no one is going to come after you just because they can... Ultimately, it all boils down to the same thing, i.e. mutual dependence between individuals in a society Hmm, well uh, we don't need to wear "I'm the state" hats to rob folks, but yeah sometimes it helps, If some individuals have chosen to use noncounterfeitable tokens for mutually dependent organization in their society, and we want to rob them, we will have to do just that - go door to door. No more creating billion dollar bank accounts by flipping single bits. |
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You also don't understand how bitcoin works. Max # of coins, and block reward schedule, could be changed with a few lines of code. It's called a hardfork, what's being considered now to lift the blocksize limit.
What's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander. What's good for the holder of BTC is not what's good for the miner of BTC.
If the miners agree on changing the blocksize reward, on delaying the halvening, on anything at all -- easily done.
OK, have fun on your new inflatochain. I'll be sticking the the one with the hard cap. But think of it this way - even if you are on an inflating chain.. like doge or something, fedcoin, whatever, you are still using a public coin. The money supply is public. Compare that to the counterfeitables: infinitely counterfeitable at any moment, representative of nothing. Money supply always invisible. IKR? Srsly, there are still people out there who will trade goods and services for the stuff!! lol right? |
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Not following what you're trying to say. Do you feel less trees would get cut if BTC was money? How so?
Well not "if BTC was money".. it is already, but if the people cutting them used hard currency instead of counterfeitable, so they could save up and not have to keep cutting. Nothing at all makes them less crooked. But they are limited. Only 21million. If you hold 1 BTC you have a fixed percentage. Fiat crooks control infinity percent of fiat. It's a big difference. Holding one funbuck means.. nothing at all. |
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I meant that the trees in the Amazon are being chopped and traded for fiat.
The trees in the Amazon are being chopped for money. They would be cut for BTC if that was the coin of the realm. People are selfish, greedy and shortsighted is why. Indeed, right you are. Wait a minute, weren't you going to argue that perhaps some people should be trusted with the power to create infinite fiat tokens at the expense of all other participants? I guess not. Selfish, greedy and shortsighted: not equipped to deal with counterfeitables. Too easy to cheat. |
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An expansion of knowledge is missing in your example. It means that a deeper insight into things allows to qualitatively expand the resource base of humanity, not just by more fully utilizing existing resources in regular ways but by including into the pool of available and accessible resources things that previously were either not useful altogether (or even unknown to us at all, as many things still are), or useful only in a small, limited number of ways. For example, electricity existed since the beginning of times, but we could make use of it only a hundred years ago. Oil has been known since the dawn of humanity, but it was only after and due to the break-throughs in chemistry that it has become the resource as valuable and indispensable as we know it today... Quoting Carl Menger on the subject: The quantities of consumption goods at human disposal are limited only by the extent of human knowledge of the causal connections between things, and by the extent of human control over these things. Increasing understanding of the causal connections between things and human welfare, and increasing control of the less proximate conditions responsible for human welfare, have led mankind, therefore, from a state of barbarism and the deepest misery to its present stage of civilization and well-being, and have changed vast regions inhabited by a few miserable, excessively poor, men into densely populated civilized countries. Nothing is more certain than that the degree of economic progress of mankind will still, in future epochs, be commensurate with the degree of progress of human knowledge The explosive expansion of knowledge is the primary engine that has been driving the wealth of society to entirely new levels during the last few centuries I like this Mostly all of it. The part about assuming barbarism and misery were the way things were is hardly the view of most historians like e.g. Plato or Bible however, and there are those who claim there is still some barbarism and misery out there as well. But yeah: bring on the explosion of knowledge! And since we have allowed ourselves to stray to other issues not necessarily related to the "economic model of bitcoin".. perhaps we should not leave aside the issue of education, as brought up once in thread. I know of not a single professor, colleague, or author who does not complain about the declining standards thereof. A trend we had better be prepared to fight tooth and nail rather than brush aside and claim is nothing due to college attendance. |
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Wow nice work choppers! Yesterday we hit a new all time difficulty high of over 63. That's over 1.9 GH/s of pure double skein hash.
Sawdust be flyin yo.
This is the push we need to get us through this stage of development. Every little bit of network security helps enormously right now.
You may have noticed there is quite a bit of variance on the difficulty. This is in part because we are relatively few choppers with huge muscle, but also because the readjust period is targeted at 2 hours. Blocks have averaged as much as three minute apart. If it causes problems please let us know here or over in freenode irc: #woodcoin.
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