Sorry, that was not my intention at all. I just mean there's a lot of scammers on there.

I have no indication that GLBSE itself is fraudulent! I edited my post to make that clear. Sorry again, I'm just producing so much text currently that ambiguity can slip my mind.

The reason Pirateat40 responded to Serge is because it draws attention to the wrong side of the problem, the one that takes more time to discuss.

Serge, an idea for the most profitable enterprise of all time is not the point of discussion here. The question is why would he continue to share it! Sure, in the beginning he might have lacked funds. But now? There's just no way any sensible person would now try to get as many investors as possible!

This argument kills it in one go. All counters have been quickly debunked. Wake up and help spreading the word already.

Just wait until the outcome is clear, then demote the mods that were engaged heavily on the wrong side of a flamewar. An operator who fuels up a flamewar to help a scammer is unacceptable, so there will be a reckoning after the show.

The first thing I'll do after the game is demoting psy, probably using just a single quote. Enjoy your remaining time with the staff tag. I hope, though, that you will resign the position on your own and apologize, because it would suck if even an old moderator account were in on this.

Being a moderator does not mean one can get away with anything because "oh, this had nothing to do with my moderation role". There are enough users already who post with their head in offline mode.

No. Just that he can do all of this with his own funds and get less than 12 weeks amortization time and exponential growth of his own funds, so why the hell is he giving away free money?

Stay in reality. A shady charity? Are you serious?

Changed the thread name because it's so obvious by now, there is really no need to use kinky wording.

GLBSE should read "Global Bitcoin Scammer Exchange" really. Edit: this is NOT directed at GLBSE operators! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Good thing I started tracking the ad people.

Bitcoin Savings and Trust is a Ponzi scheme, a fraudulent High Yield Investment Program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-yield_investment_program

I am also suspecting DeaDTerra of being a child operation of one of the numerous scams currently underway. Update: this has just been confirmed, he is openly tunneling funds into a bond that in turn tunnels into the Pirateat40 Ponzi. This is inexcusable even as a mistake. Blacklisted.

If you really want to invest in an extreme-return high-risk fund, track the operation in question until you are confident it is credible. Logs or witness accounts of unknown people on the forum are as useless as actual returns in the past; the ability to pay all requests until the last second of operation is a defining property of Ponzi schemes.

We are currently trying to starve the money inflow into the "securities" in question to trigger their end. Please help out by spreading explicit warnings to anyone who might invest without the necessary prior research. Please refrain from any questionable investments on the Bitcoin forum in the next months.

• CPA is operated by usagi
• Its funds stem from some GLBSE entry
• My question on the photo ID verification was blatantly ignored

This is not an insurance. For all we know, he could not just refuse to pay, but run with the money of the insurance operation as well.

Name your backing, your identity, and any other information that is expensive to fake, and link it in here. Or else label your thread as the joke it is.

It is not running for a year yet. Hell, in he beginning Pirateat was mostly talking with himself just to make the logs.

Problem for you guys, Goat, is that you are running out of posters. Thus the thread was locked. People who have been on your side a week ago are now crying foul even though they got money out. No matter how much you post, severe Ponzi accusations will make people read up on the topic.

And we know you have a sharp time-out. How many weeks can the operation last without user base growth? We all know it's not long, and that's why we can keep up until it's over. Someone large will withdraw eventually, and if not, after a few weeks someone small can do it instead.

Game is over. Take whatever your share is and say goodbye to your forum status. You guys are overestimating yourselves, we can and will make sure there's nothing more to win here.

usagi is offering "insured" BS&T bonds, naming the "insurance" company by its company name although he runs it himself, with other peoples' money on top.

How many red flags do you guys need? If someone made a 50/50 bet whether it's just a Pirateat account through either clone or hacking, I wouldn't know which side to bet on.

The whole operation makes no sense at all, except to disguise he got the word "insurance" from nowhere.

Pirateat40: lol... you got me. I'm not even going to repeat the amortization thing. That post toward us is too awesome. Anyone stupid enough to keep going now deserves it, what would those people have done with the funds anyway?

This is actually why I don't have anything against the MMM schemes. If you give people a fair chance to notice, it's no more a scam than selling ground on Mars. A part of me is now going to laugh with you when you call it quits.

Also, lol Herzmeister

This is the one rare occasion that calls for a deliberate double-post.


I'm off, guys, it doesn't get any better than this, and that's when you quit.

No, I need no details. I just want to know why you don't have enough BTC to continue without investors by now. Exponential growth is pretty neat, and I don't see why these peoples' BTC should be better than your own.

If there's one thing I found out by now, then it's that you joke a lot less than it seems. I trust you can fulfill the promise above, and you'll have a laugh at a lot of people when you do.



Do. You. Guys. EVER. Actually. Read. What. I. Have. Repeated. A. Gazillion. Times?

Forced withdraws are necessary to limit the scheme's growth in the beginning. The expected behavior matches observations of BS&T to the best of my knowledge. Also, the method provides a cheap argument for discussions like this one.

If this turns out a scam, people will be angry at everyone who was advertising it. This is the main point! Feel free to throw out your money, we're a free community. However, advertising something you cannot distinguish from a Ponzi is a no-go. This includes misinformed "explanations" as to why this "must be legit".



LOL man, you got guts, I give you that. If it weren't Bitcoin, I'd just have fun watching. Your style is so brazen, it's outright funny. OK, you got me, I gotta do something else. If people read that and keep going "lalala it's safe," well, gosh I'm out of words.

But I'm just gonna post the quote again for good measure.

miscreanity, that is just a chain of insults without even trying to discuss. I may be acting arrogant, but I post an exact question, and I will not let go of it until it's either answered or I rub in that it cannot be answered.

We're pages into the latter. Still no explanation, still it looks like Pirateat40's decision is a massive loss for him unless it is a Ponzi. Still nothing on the need for insanely large individual accounts to get the 7% yield.

Occam's Razor is calling here. The Ponzi explains what an endless flamewar couldn't. It's profitable, the selective yields limit withdrawals, the forced withdrawals have been controlling growth, and now we're in the phase to get as many deposits as possible.




This has "I am a Ponzi scheme victim" written all over it. Ponzi never failed to pay until one moment, from which he never paid again. The same goes for MMM-2011 and all the others. One important reason why it works is that people re-invest too much.

Eeeeyup. Unfortunately, a herd of kinky investors who have money claims on you don't pay as reputation, especially if it looks like you're orchestrating a Ponzi.

I sometimes wonder, are you paid by post or something? I still see no real argument, just more esoteric text and an increasing post count for the two of us.


Maegent: I don't know of any pattern in the block chain that hinders one to transfer the coins in it to gox. Well, you could send to invalid addresses, but that wouldn't make people any happier, now would it?

@miscreanity quote inception:

I see walls of text, but no argument -- what does this have to do with Pirateat40 giving away free money?

If he doesn't pay someone somewhere, that person will still blame him no matter what he does on the Bitcoin forum. The current scheme in theory reduces his overall funds after a very short time.

The question why to still share such massive yields remains unanswered. The highest accounts still list 7%, the heck?

Face it, these "investors" Are not doing anything a trader with such profits would need. What's the great service of eating up so much money that the deal with them rapidly goes into the red? My guess: none of the "investors" would act that way if they were in Pirateat40's supposed position, they're just too lazy to ever think about it.

Yeees, and my post shows just what a horribly stupid deal it is to do that.

Dude, did you even read the post before quoting it, or just do something to push it to the back? I just showed that amortization time for using one's own money is tiny, and that Pirateat40 easily gets enough money from the current scheme to just take over. It is absolutely nonsensical for him to still be using other peoples' money.

I don't see it. And if you can show a simple amortization time calculation wrong, go ahead. Maybe I mistyped a number somewhere, not like that changes anything.

Do you really want me to do that math for you?

Okay. Whatever. Difference in yields there is 5.98%. Amortization time of risking own money: 12 weeks. However, Pirateat40 pays 7%, so it's shorter even! Bitcoin has survived trading for decent amounts for over a year now, so the decision to use other people's money is a massive loss for him already. In fact, a factor 5.7 using these understated client yields.

Plus, just investing the earnings from the current scheme now and kicking people out would not risk a bitcent of his starting capital!

This is a joke. Next argument, please?

Brunic:

No matter how you tune the numbers, Pirateat40 would quickly be able to trade with more and more of his own funds, kicking out investors and claiming the profits for himself. As soon as he has over 10k coins himself, it takes him 34 weeks to obtain one million BTC without the help of investors.

Forget it. Any theory without money laundering is a joke, and for that he lacks a supply path for fresh coins: too much re-investment.

In fact, just forget it period. There exists no explanation why anyone in the right mind would "share" returns like that over such a long time.

Goat: betting on the default? Bring it on! But it's hard to find a trustworthy third party.

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433 sounds like a possible option. I wouldn't trust the site with a lot, but it would be a start. Yet look at it, 10:1, with half a coin to win? Come on. Why didn't you start raising that already?

If you trust that I'm just wrong, but not a scammer, I might be able to arrange a bet on a similar time-scale with someone who can place more serious amounts.