So what'd ya drink?

OOOOHHHHH MAAATTTT !?!?!

*crickets and wind*

To what are you guys referring?

That may be true that some variation of the ICO market will stick around indefinitely. But there are only so many times that you can continue to say things like "ETH is Bitcoin 2.0!"
"Oh no wait, not ETH, now it will be XXcoin that is the next Bitcoin 2.0!"
"Oh no wait, it's not XXcoin, it's going to be XYcoin that is the next Bitcoin 2.0!"
"Oh no wait, not that XYcoin stuff, it's YYcoin that is the next Bitcoin 2.0!"
... and on and on...

After a while, people will start to see the ever revolving door of the perpetual scam that is "This is the next Bitcoin! Trust me!"

Trust me, it will get there. I wager we will see a $5K floor, yes floor, by the end of 2020. Supported by miners and by true long holders. Bitcoin will be seen as the only sensible crypto and the true value play. The price of bitcoin will of course continue to increase into the future, but likely more slowly over time. I guess we shall see. 99.99% people have yet to even buy some.

All the other shitcoins are supported by nothing but the pumpers and FOMO hype. When all that changes, and it will someday, the ICO market will get fully labeled as 'SCAM MARKET' and the sensible people will never return there again. They can only pull off the mega scam once.

Going from a low of 200 to 2900 is not 'parabolic' enough for you?

Wow, greed.

And Bitcoin is not ever going to do 1000% in month or two, or even years. It's too big now, and it would take a Herculean amount of money now with like 500X-1000X leverage to do something like that, and there would have to be an unlimited amount of coins on exchanges (which there are not).

If Bitcoin ever spiked like that, I would be very afraid.

This kinda reminds of the summer of 2014. Sell in May and go away. Back then the price barely moved for 6 weeks.

Except we are likely still in a bull market instead of a bear market.

I guess all the newcomers who are clamoring for these stupid ICOs will need to learn a lesson the hard way.

Once they get scammed badly and lose all their money, they'll either do one of two things:

1) Walk away from crypto forever, head on over to r/buttcoin and join the ranks of those that got burned to disparage crypto until their dying days

2) Realize that they should have just bought Bitcoin and HODL for years like all the vets were telling them

Scenario:
Apocalypse happens, but the worldwide internet still works.
But you and your family find yourself starving for food, about to die.
You have 10- 1oz. gold coins.
You meet a man on the street that has two chickens.
You ask to buy one of the chickens.
He asks you if you have some bitcoin.
You say you don't.
You then ask him how much gold would he take for one of the two chickens.
He says all 10 of your gold coins.
And you know what? If you're family is starving, you'll give him all of them or you will die.

Congrats, you just paid $13K for one meal for your family, and now you don't have any gold coins left.
Even if you haggled him down to just 1 coin, you still probably overpaid.

Yeah, gold is so perfect as a form of barter.  

Well, I kinda agree with you here r0ach.

Calling Ethereum "not a scam" is kinda like calling SnapChat "not a scam". On a purely technical level you could say that SnapChat is not a scam because the product works as intended. But launching a company with a silly-premised phone app that makes literally zero money, and will never be monetized, yet IPO'ed with a $24B valuation and made the founders INSTANT multi-billionaires overnight is the very DEFINITION of SCAM in my book.

In fact if I could put Evan Spiegel's photo next to the definition of "Scam Artist" in the Webster's Dictionary, I would.

Huge in the way that network cabals or the world banks can eventually co-op it, centralize it and take it over, like they intend to do one day with the likes of ETH or some other corporate beloved shitcoin?

Then no thanks, I'll take my chances with the "small" fringe Bitcoin market. Core principles of sound money actually matter more.

Yep. Price and marketcap driving forward in a crypto as the only measure of success, devoid of the core principles of sound, trustless, decentralized money with a POW system that Satoshi laid out, is completely hollow and meaningless.

People in that camp might as well be chasing a hot new stock or some other bank-driven investment derivative. Or maybe their state lotto.

Bitcoiners don't want to admit it, but it's primary use has been exactly that for years now. No one is out there buying hundreds of thousands of $$$ in bitcoin just so they can have unlimited number of coffee purchases in the future.

It wouldn't even matter if transaction fees came back down to $0. People still won't be buying coffees and croissants with bitcoin. Too much work, easier to use fiat debit cards, esp. when the fiat purchasing value is falling virtually every day. Why would I want to waste my bitcoin on a cup of coffee when I have fiat?

Again, the community can be ridiculously disingenuous to what is actually happening with Bitcoin now and in the future.

Awesome interview with Andy Hoffman about Bitcoins and PMs markets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlMKI9fcLMs

I esp. like his last minute comments @ around 35 min mark about Bitcoin vs. Altcoins. This is information we all know already, but I still think a lot of altcoin lovers haven't done enough research into their altcoin du jour to understand.

Andy gets it. Bitcoin is the only one he is remotely interested in, and for good reasons.

I will go on record to say nope, not a chance in hell that it will ever go to zero. Unless maybe the world blows up.

Bitcoin has about the same probably now to go to $0 as BRK/A stock does. Or Gold going to $0.

Zilch. Zero. Nada. Ain't gonna happen.

If you have a day job that sustains you, and you have tens, hundreds or even thousands of btc, then "taking profit" on them now will be a huge regret 5 to 10 yrs from now.  

If in just 8.5 years a bitcoin can go from $0 to $3000, with 99.99% percent of the world not even invested yet, then surely it has plenty of room to run to $20K, $50K, or whatever in the next 8 years. It is not inconceivable in the least.

And you keep blabbering on about it having a chance to "go to zero." Not a chance now, no way. I'd wager that even if a 0 day, network-killing flaw was found tomorrow, bitcoin would still not go to zero.

You total have that backwards dude. Every time the media prints a new headline like "Bitcoin breaks XX for the first time, new ATH!" or some shit, esp. a round number like $1000, $2000, etc. it immediately dumps a few days later.

Every. Single. Time.

A 2 day old article, but I thought the author articulated very well the three main factors of Bitcoin speculation and what makes it a great long term play for store of value.

http://www.coindesk.com/why-no-crypto-bubble-ico/

Lol.

It humors me that the great fools of the world, instead of saying "Yeah Bitcoin is awesome because I've always thought we've needed something exactly like that to exist", are the first ones to instead chime in and say "It'll never amount to anything, it sucks. Don't take it seriously".

They say that precisely because a) they live in a world where a threat to fiat currency is a threat to their own existing fortunes, and b) because they don't have the intellectual capacity to both understand and embrace it.

These are the same fools that exclaim "Bbut, but, Bitcoin is not backed by anything!" But when you ask them "Well what are stocks backed by? What are Gold and Silver backed by?" then there's that stunned sheepish look on their face, like you've just asked them "What's the sound of one hand clapping?"