Well, yes, but the up-front equipment cost is huge.  Solar energy systems only pay off over many years of use.  One example I found with a quick Google search said $6-$8/watt installed, which led to a 10-year ROI for the system.  So you could install solar panels or buy an equivalent amount of electricity for a decade.  Do you think you'll be mining that long?

Thanks for the update, DarkTrix.

As for Mintpal, here's the change in the last day for the top 20 coins:

1: XBC 22665 (+178)
2: ENRG 20075 (+722)
3: COOL 18654 (+1331)
4: XSI 18344 (+154)
5: CYC 18337 (+2841)
6: MNR 17859 (+203)
7: ADN 17091 (+224)
8: SPN 17063 (+313)
9: OPC 16491 (+753)
10: IXC 16173 (+3)
11: MEOW 14976 (+7)
12: SFR 14905 (+13)
13: GRC 14078 (+7)
14: 888 12817 (+21)
15: BCT 12496 (+319)
16: PCC 12428 (+9)
17: EXE 11866 (+365)
18: PTC 11779 (+55)
19: BEE 11509 (+9)
20: NOTE 10655 (+383)

It looks like OPC will pass us.  But we might be able to overtake ADN again, and we might have a shot at passing MNR and eventually XSI.  If DarkTrix is right about Mintpal trying to eliminate the pump and dump coins, then it really says something that SPN has been climbing steadily for months.  If we don't make it before voting closes, Spartancoin, maybe you can get in touch with Mintpal directly and see if they're interested in listing SPN anyway.

As for other exchanges, the only ones I know of with good volume are Mintpal, Cryptsy, Bittrex, and Poloniex.  Right now, Poloniex seems like it may be our best bet if Mintpal doesn't happen right now.

I'm not sure of all the details, but yes, I think you just attach a couple wires to key points.  I'm not sure of how toxic the chemicals would be.  I think the biggest obstacles have been efficiency and cost.  But they're working on it.  Just google something like "solar cell paint," and you'll get a whole bunch of articles.  For example:

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/15/caution-wet-solar-power-new-affordable-solar-paint-research/
http://www.cnet.com/news/new-nanotech-quantum-dots-to-make-solar-cells-lighter-cheaper/

Someone mentioned Swisscex before.  If we all made a push for that, we could probably get on in 1-2 weeks.  But it's also a sad exchange with a daily volume of only around 20 BTC or so.

SpartanCoin or DarkTrix--any news?

We could always ask to get SPN there, but unless they become a big exchange, it won't matter.  They have only 3 minor alt coins listed and pretty much zero daily volume (like 0.01 BTC).  Swissex would be vastly better right now.

That's likely true, but at least you would get something back.

Another interesting point to consider is that major crises are usually accompanied by deflation (at least part of which is a result of debt destruction).  So the inflation caused by printing dollars to cover bank deposits might be at least partially offset.  And the good thing about the inflationary part is that the dollars would be going more toward the working/middle class instead of the rich, which would keep the economy going better than giving banks bazillions of dollars.

I've also heard of something like solar cell paint.  You can just apply the stuff to whatever you want to turn it into a solar collecting source: walls, roofs, etc.  If they could make that cheap and efficient, that would really be something.

Part of it is the initial investment cost.  Another part is that your weather and longitude matter.  You can't power a city on solar power when half the days of the year are cloudy, or if the sun is low on the horizon a good part of the day.  I've heard more like 20 years ROI, but it depends on where it's located, how efficient and expensive the panels are, etc.

Solar is a great form of renewable energy.  It won't meet all of our needs, but it's good in combination with other sources.  In the past, typical solar cells have only been able to capture about 10-15% of the energy of the light that hits them.  But with increased interest in recent years, scientists and engineers have been able to design much more efficient cells.  I think I've read that they've been able to make some that are over 40% efficient in the laboratory.  If they can mass-produce those, then solar energy will probably become a lot cheaper.


Cheese? 

I agree that some contests and such might help.  If someone sets up something legit, I'm willing to donate some SPN.

We also don't really know yet how Mintpal will decide to add coins after they close their voting system.  It's possible that they will look at some of the top remaining coins for candidates.

I agree.  I think ETFs have huge potential for increasing the price (although note that I say "potential").  But if everyone thinks that will be the case (I've seen others voice the same opinion), will the rally happen when an ETF launch is announced?  Or when the ETF actually launches?  Or both?

If there were no exchanges, bitcoin might still have trust, but it would likely lose a lot of its value/usefulness.  I'm not sure how many businesses would accept bitcoin as a form of payment if they couldn't readily convert to fiat...probably not many.

Yes, that's what I meant by legacy (legacy: "something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legacy).


So you believe that the dollar retains its value because of threat of violence?  You don't think that people mutually agree that it's useful to have a common currency, even if the Fed has power over it?

And how do you figure that a Fed Note has a value of zero?  I can go to a store and exchange it for goods or services, so apparently it's still worth something.



Yes, I understand that transaction confirmation is a valuable service, but how do you put a particular price on it?  The average amount of money spent on confirming a transaction today (including hardware, electricity, and profit) is obviously orders of magnitude higher than it was a couple years ago.  The only difference between then and now is higher security.  The bitcoin network will function just fine whether it's operating at 1 terahash/sec or 1 exahash/sec.  Now, I agree that security is important, but how much security do you need?  You'd have trouble outspending a multi-billion-dollar financial institution, and you'd never be able to outspend some of the biggest governments of the world.

I realize that the cost of transaction confirmation is linked to the price of bitcoin, but what if bitcoin fell to $100 and stayed there?  A bunch of miners would turn off their hardware, the market would rebalance, and bitcoin would continue just fine with a lower network hash rate.  If this is false, please tell me why.  If it's true, then how can you tell me that bitcoins should actually be worth ~$620 each right now?

(And btw, as I have some bitcoin, I'd like to believe that it is backed by something valuable, but I'm having a hard time seeing how the mining network has to have any particular value.)

I'm not really sure how it's a pyramid or inverted/reverse pyramid scheme, either.  Could you please explain?

And btw, the reason I'm being nit-picky about such terminology is because of the connotations that go with it.  "Ponzi," "pyramid scheme," and for that matter, just "scheme," are very negative.  Maybe Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin to be some sort of elaborate scheme, but that's becoming less likely as it gains acceptance and trades freely in open markets, if for no other reason than that it would be more profitable to slowly sell off his stash than, say, dump all of it on the open market and crash it.

I mostly agree.  However, there are times when free markets get out of control (bubbles and crashes), and some limited state intervention may be required to let a little air out of bubbles and "soften the landing" when markets crash.  Like a lot of people, I think governments went way overboard after the 2008/9 recession, but I do think that some kind of response was necessary during the crisis to keep things from spiraling further out of control.

I doubt that would make any difference.  As you pointed out, FDIC insurance pays out when banks fail.  I doubt it covers government theft.   Besides, even if FDIC insurance would somehow cover it right now, I'm sure they'd find a loophole or change the laws so it won't.

Not that I want the government to do that, but I'd greatly prefer that to messing with bank deposits.

Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme.  Period.  People have been throwing that word around way too much since the Madoff case.  By definition, a ponzi scheme has a single person or entity through which all the funds flow.  That is obviously not true of bitcoin.  It amazes me (although perhaps it shouldn't) that someone associated with the world bank would be so sloppy.

Yeah, that's aggravating.  Of course they'll pass it on.  Banks and corporations always do.  Anytime their expenses increase, they pass it on.

Sure, I definitely understand that sentiment.  But whether they take the money from bank deposits or sales receipts or income, it's basically a tax increase.  If they're going to do it anyway, they at least shouldn't screw with the banking system.

I'm not sure it's faith or credit anymore...just legacy.


The USD has value because a bunch of people came together and said that the country needs a national currency to facilitate payments and trade.  They created the dollar and declared that it has value.  How is bitcoin different?  Satoshi created a technology that could be used as a currency to facilitate payments and trade in a manner that's independent of any particular government.  A community developed around that idea, and they declared that it had value.  Over time, more and more people have agreed with that idea, and we are where we are today.


Yes, it is a high cost now.  But one thing I've wondered about this is why is the cost required to be high?  Why couldn't bitcoin function just fine at $100?  Or $10?