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541  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Price Manipulation on: February 23, 2013, 02:23:03 PM
...

C) this is where people started to shift their perceptions away from what they could spend it on, but more to do with how much it cost to make. and so the remaining miners held the price at a certain level and slowly the price began to rise again

D) even through the next media blitz of bad press (the pirate saga) miners still held strong and helped the price to not collapse but to be just a little blip.

...

Price causes difficulty, not the other way around.
Regardless of whether miners sell or hang on to their coins, it's equivalent to them simply buying the coins into existence "at cost". The feedback loop is such that basically:
P causes C + W
where:
P = whatever the price happens to be, because of Demand which has nothing to do with miners.
C = mining cost.
W = minimum wage they're willing to tolerate in order to keep mining.

double face palm.
...

...at you (and about a thousand other miners) not understanding supply and demand?
542  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Price Manipulation on: February 23, 2013, 03:29:00 AM
...

C) this is where people started to shift their perceptions away from what they could spend it on, but more to do with how much it cost to make. and so the remaining miners held the price at a certain level and slowly the price began to rise again

D) even through the next media blitz of bad press (the pirate saga) miners still held strong and helped the price to not collapse but to be just a little blip.

...

Price causes difficulty, not the other way around.
Regardless of whether miners sell or hang on to their coins, it's equivalent to them simply buying the coins into existence "at cost". The feedback loop is such that basically:
P causes C + W
where:
P = whatever the price happens to be, because of Demand which has nothing to do with miners.
C = mining cost.
W = minimum wage they're willing to tolerate in order to keep mining.
543  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Price Manipulation on: February 23, 2013, 02:52:34 AM
My intent in starting this topic was to point out that there is precedent for the central bankers/governments to manipulate prices, and to develop some ideas for how we might detect such manipulation if and when it takes place.  So far most replies have been about why this will never happen despite historical evidence to the contrary.  Let me try a more pointed approach:  How might a clandestine group with deep pockets go about causing a significant increase in Bitcoin exchange volatility and what specific methods might be used to detect such manipulation?



Let's start with the easy stuff. What might an evil manipulator try in order to destroy Bitcoin?

This part has been covered many times. To recap: Bitcoin is very powerful as an idea, it's smart, and it's backed by a diverse community. Therefore an organised strategy might try to cover all of those angles:
  • the smartness: technical hacks, ddos, etc.
  • the idea: e.g.: use a TV show such as "The Good Wife" to subtly portray Bitcoin and its founders as a bad idea, and do it in a way that will be imperceptible to most nerdy fanbois. Get some Wall Street and media guys to "pump and dump" and show the world that Bitcoin is all hype and no substance. Get bloggers/journos to write scathing articles about Bitcoin to reduce morale.
  • the community: plant some (destructive) trolls in the on-line forums who work hard to create division and block progress.
  • Be flexible. If one technique clearly doesn't work, try something else.

OTOH why assume malice?
Possible evidence of non-malicious manipulation: ECB's November 2012 report on "electronic currencies". It's obvious the report was really aimed at Bitcoin but they threw in an extra currency to make it seem more general. I interpreted the report's conclusions as generally embracing Bitcoin rather than opposing it. The main thing that puzzled me was the purpose of the report. Was it a threat to someone? A warning to governments or banks or something like that? No, I think it was a careful action disguised as "meh, just a publication by one of our juniors". But what for? The report was obviously prepared and held unpublished for many months in advance, so they didn't do it lightly. I think they wanted to seed some viral growth.

Similarly, forum members in the US seem perpetually worried that their authorities might decide to "clamp down" on Bitcoin. I keep waiting for the bad news... and waiting... and waiting... Then I look at the statistics and find that US dollar-denominated exchanges are the busiest, and that a large percentage of users are based in the US. Maybe one of their agencies has flagged Bitcoin as an asset and is telling the others "do not touch this"? Maybe their strategists want to secretly 'nurse' Bitcoin on home soil, and they're hoping for some future advantage over other nations?

There is some massive behind-the-scenes activity going on with the world's major currencies. One would have to be wilfully blind not to see the debasement and gradual revaluations. While I can't see senior executive/managerial types of people having much technical creativity, I can imagine them Googling and finding Bitcoin, and pasting it into the "X goes here" part of their grand plan.
544  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Blocksize Issue = Doing the Dirty Dishes on: February 22, 2013, 11:36:12 PM
Just look at what happened after the bitcoin bubble of 2011.

What happened after the Bitcoin bubble of 2011?

I heard that during the upwards 'rocket' phase, zero-fee transactions were accepted just as fast as fee-paying transactions because a) miners didn't give a shit and b) there was so little real commerce going on that block space was practically infinite.
545  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Blocksize Issue = Doing the Dirty Dishes on: February 22, 2013, 11:38:39 AM
Mining income can't get screwed because miners will simply charge more for txn inclusion in their blocks. Either that or all miners will quit, in which case there will certainly be no abundance of block space. Again, self-adjusting.

OK, fair point.
Even with infinite block space, miners can still charge for the service of including transactions.

Take a snapshot of "waiting transactions", and let's say there's 100s of fresh, 'normal' transactions priced from (just pulling numbers out of the air) 0.000001BTC to 0.2BTC.
On top of that let's say there's 5000 'free' transactions on the waiting list. For simplicity, let's say that special transactions with some kind of secondary fee are already covered in the normal group.

Desired situation:
A group of the largest miners continuously work hard to keep Bitcoin stable with some central banking theory. They set and continuously adjust minimum fees. This affects the flow rate of transactions in the BTC ecosystem. If there's a price shock -- some major sell-off or buy-up, or some other currency crashes, the idea is that they can always react to dampen that shock. After all, they're rich in Bitcoin so the incentive is strong.

Bad situation caused by overly abundant block space:
A relatively small miner (e.g.: <1%) decides to play by a different set of rules. E.g.: when they get blocks, they accept ALL transactions. This has a disproportionate effect on price and inflation (many people figure "for the normal fee I'd rather use XYZ-coin because it's cheaper, but because free transactions get through within 2 days anyway, I've got some extra business to do!") So basically you get a small miner potentially ruining, or even sabotaging the hard work that the large miners put in to stabilise.

So you get a sort-of "two speed economy". The large responsible miners only have control over fast ~<1 day phenomena like flash crashes and such-like. However, the slow trends are completely out of control with small miners having disproportionately more influence. OTOH maybe it's not such a bad thing. Thoughts?
546  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Blocksize Issue = Doing the Dirty Dishes on: February 21, 2013, 11:48:21 PM
Alternative idea:

Just let Bitcoin saturate to whatever maximum size it can sustain. Huh Huh

Eventually the fees could get so high that people are forced to shop around for cheaper alt-coins. This would challenge the popular perception that Bitcoin is resistant against inflation. It's not -- any "Alternative Coin" that steps into the same niche (pseudonymous Internet money...) inflates the overall "currency soup".

This would ruin some people's idea of using bitcoins as "hard money" for their retirement savings.
On the other hand, some day soon we may be faced with transactions that cost the same or more than competing bank rates. After all, Bitcoin is so awesome, pseudonymous and everything -- why shouldn't the miners be able to charge a premium? Oh that's right. Open source software promotes competition. While pissed off at inflation, at least people will be happy that transaction fees stay cheap. Grin
547  Other / Off-topic / Great minds required. Uncovering what REALLY happened at Chelyabinsk... on: February 19, 2013, 12:37:15 AM
Due to popular demand from incredulous mainstream Beliebers, I'm starting this thread so we can put our minds together and uncover the TRUTH behind the mysterious technology that was cleverly disguised as a meteorite.

I'll go first. Key points:
It was clearly an ICBM.
~30km/s seems a bit fast for a plausible re-entry speed, but it's the Russians so it seems legit.
10 kiloton estimated explosive force seems way off the mark for conventional explosives unless they somehow fired a 10 thousand tonne warhead. I'm sure someone would have noticed a rocket the size of the Great Pyramid lifting off, so it couldn't have been conventional explosives. This leaves a couple of other options like fuel-air and nuclear.

Was it a Fuel-Air bomb?
This seems far more efficient than carrying chemicals where the necessary oxygen is already present. How about a solid shell of magnesium? I was wondering whether it might contain metallic powder inside but why bother when at such high speeds the whole thing could become an aerosol. I'm not sure about magnesium's high-speed behaviour, but I hear that tungsten and uranium are pretty good. Presumably they went for a staballoy with optimised shattering properties for the job: high surface area, while maintaining enough solidity to pass by and release as much energy as possible from the ambient oxygen and nitrogen.

Was it nuclear?
Atmospheric testing over a place like Chelybinsk seems like the perfect smokescreen (pun intended). According to some reputable YT videos, the place practically glows in the dark anyway so who would notice a few extra milli-Rad? And don't give me that BS about detecting traces of radio-isotopes in the atmosphere. Everyone's instruments are already gummed up and malfunctioning with wet Fukushima Dai-ichi dust.

What about the "moving spotlight" effect? Or the glowing embers coming out the other end of the fireball?
Some of the YT videos clearly show the shadows of cars and buildings smoothly rolling across the terrain, like a time-lapse video of a sun dial. I'm just not convinced that a nuke could be made to give such a reliable point-source of light. And you certainly wouldn't get anything solid coming out the other end.

Conclusion: the so-called "meteorite" was really a fuel-air kinetic penetrator, likely consisting of a secret blend of heavy metals in an inefficient "roundish" shape. How did I do? Grin
548  Economy / Speculation / Re: Volatility on: February 17, 2013, 08:50:35 PM
Sorry no need to reinvent volatility Smiley It is the standard deviation of price form the median over some period of time. So you can see one plotted here for example:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg10ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zi1gCVolatilityzv

Are you sure that all those antiquated concepts of open, close, daily high, and daily low are even relevant for a system that runs 24h continuously?

According to barchart.com
Quote
The basic premise of the Accumulation/Distribution Line is that the degree of buying or selling pressure can be determined by the location of the close, relative to the high and low for the corresponding period. There is buying pressure when a stock closes in the upper half of a period's range and there is selling pressure when a stock closes in the lower half of the period's trading range.

The Chaikin Oscillator is simply the Moving Average Convergence Divergence indicator (MACD) applied to the Accumulation/Distribution Line. The formula is the difference between the 3-day exponential moving average and the 10-day exponential moving average of the Accumulation/Distribution Line. Just as the MACD-Histogram is an indicator to predict moving average crossovers in MACD, the Chaikin Oscillator is an indicator to predict changes in the Accumulation/Distribution Line.

Which sounds very nice except that when there's no such thing as "a daily trading period" -- trading is spread across multiple time zones. Cherry-picking open/close times to fit a formula is going to give you aliasing errors.
549  Economy / Speculation / Re: Volatility on: February 17, 2013, 07:58:44 PM
Fourier transform with a (shaped) sliding window.
Plot an array of frequency spectra, which evolves over time (just like those "graphic equaliser" gimmicks).

Any reduction in output at a certain frequency would show that price oscillations have reduced at that particular frequency. Then you just say that a reduction in output at all frequencies signifies an overall reduction in volatility.

The only thing that comes to mind for trying it out with minimal effort is somehow importing the all-time exchange rate data into an audio program like Audacity and manipulating it in there.
550  Other / Off-topic / Re: UFOs have landed in my hometown !!! LOL will aliens accept bitcoins? on: February 15, 2013, 07:33:51 PM
Timezone probably.

My relatives told me that they were warned in advance about this and that military shot down a fairly large meteor and it is just what remains of it falling down.


Now that is impressive! Were they actually warned or told later that a warning had been sent out?
551  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why Governments will love Bitcoin. on: February 04, 2013, 04:42:03 PM
Interesting theory. I have a follow up question though. Say the US of A decided to ditch banks move to Bitcoin. How do you do that the "right" way? Or at least, what is your right way to make such a transition?
This has been discussed many times. Personally, I would trade some of my Bitcoin wealth for land in Malibu, though it would probably only buy a parking space for an RV.

"Governments will love Bitcoin and stuff."

"But how?"

"This has been discussed many times."


WTF?! Then why start a thread if you don't want to actually discuss the OP topic?
552  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-01-03 keiser report - Hierarchy of Fraud (E388) (John Perry Barlow intrvw) on: February 02, 2013, 03:26:08 AM
Hmm,

a) In John Barlow's defence, he mostly just sounded conservative. Just like I no longer watch the prices and specs of the latest computer gear unless my old stuff breaks, and I don't care about MP3 players (Wow! Ipods with 20GB 2" hard drives Roll Eyes ) or Iphone 5 or Windows 8, it seems understandable that despite Bitcoin's awesomeness most people just won't pay attention until reality catches up with them.

b) he's probably a bit scared of retaliation if he openly promotes Bitcoin too much.

c) Duh, he saw Bitcoin as competition to his product. Well done to Max and Stacy for helping him to regain his honesty!
553  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Law of One: A New Age Theory of the Universe on: February 02, 2013, 12:10:43 AM
It also goes well with the idea of primacy of consciousness, where body in general and the brain in particular are viewed as receivers of consciousness as opposed to a common belief of them being the generators of it.


Unfortunately for this idea we have understood for quite some time now (at least a century or so) that the brain IS the generator of consciousness and can be manipulated as such.
On the other hnd there is not a single shred of evidence that there is something like a consciousness outside of the brain.

Lol. Is there any evidence that consciousness exists inside the brain? Or at all? Can it be amputated or distilled or somehow weighed? What is it?

http://youtu.be/iDbyYGrswtg
 Cheesy

Quote
None of the people claiming all these bullshit fantasies have the guts to accept what we actually know about our existance. Usually they are so far behind the train that you can use college-level information to disprove it.

Its a pitty to see people trying to rationalize their feelings by distorting their perception of reality, especially when so much actual knwoledge from people that actually tested reality is available. Its called science and it doesnt run on fantasy.

Remember kids, extraordinary claims require extraordinaryu evidence.
But sofar there has been no evidence at all for all these fantastic claims.
Go figure.


Yeah yeah... 'consciousness' is basically a special word that scientists often use when they're trying to say "in order to appease the Church, I'm going to reject the empirical evidence of my senses, I'm going to reject Solipsism (and the heresy of equating the mind with God), and I'm going to tirelessly search for consciousness inside the Holodeck/Matrix" Cheesy

554  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: They are real: The Bitcoin Foundation Opens Up Avalon’s First ASIC on: February 01, 2013, 12:13:41 AM
Maths gurus: how slowly would 89GH have to switch in and out of the network for it to be visible above the hash-rate noise floor?

I wanna see glitches on bitcoincharts or it didn't happen! Wink
555  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Critical Mass in 2013 on: January 31, 2013, 11:53:11 PM
Remember the ECB's report on "electronic currencies" blatantly about Bitcoin late last year? It was a nice write-up, around 60 pages if I recall correctly. But what was the purpose of it? Why publish it on the Internet for everyone to see, rather than send some memos to the higher-ups? If they're worried about the banks and governments, and Bitcoin poses a legitimate threat, wouldn't that make it a pretty sensitive topic? I'm becoming more and more convinced that the report wasn't so much a warning about Bitcoin, but rather: an attack move. It was the purposeful act of informing as many people as possible about Bitcoin, and letting them know that the ECB is taking it seriously. And by claiming that it falls within their domain of responsibilities, in a round-about way the ECB is actually backing Bitcoin. Cheesy
556  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation? on: January 25, 2013, 11:20:47 AM

David Chalmers gets mentioned so many times, and I engage in conversations about his work to various people, so I have no idea if we've discussed him before. Have you read him (and his 1996 book)?

Not yet, but I've been thinking about getting round to it sometime. Cheesy
557  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation? on: January 24, 2013, 03:05:41 PM
When does 'you' stop becoming you, before you die, when you undergo certain events?
blaah... blaah....
......blaah...

Absolutely fascinating read! Definitly some interesting things to think about.

Thanks! I'm still thinking about the Halting problem and the rejection of Physicalism, though. My reasoning might have been a bit weak -- some counterarguments:
-our human 'OS' has evolved to get so many interrupts from our chaotic environment that we never get stuck on anything for too long.
-we are creatures of habit and we do get stuck in loops. It's just that we don't care, or we just can't see them from the inside.
- (I read on someone's blog but lost the link) even if we had a 'magic' interrupt/reset circuit, it would create paradoxical possibilities and we would still need additional tiers to break free.

So my back-up argument is: qualia Grin We somehow feel all those feelings, smell various smells, see what we see, hear what we hear, taste what we taste, and so on, even though none of those things exist outside of our minds. Our complete inability to objectively communicate any of those things hints at a non-physical basis for them.
558  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation? on: January 23, 2013, 12:29:05 PM
...Each human is really just a manifestation of the same fundamental reality. A vessel thought which god experiences itself.

You equate God with man? Heresy! Burn him! Cheesy

John 17:

"That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

Also, I think the biblical god tried to tell the people they were god when he told Moses his name was "I AM".

Exodus 3:

God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘"I AM" has sent me to you.’”

However this has been treated as heresy and subversion for this longest time. The Jews have gone as far as barring people from saying the verse as intended.

Nice!
So a few decent philosophical ideas managed to slip past the censors.
559  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation? on: January 23, 2013, 11:58:47 AM
Wrong question.

All there is is the fundamental reality, "god" if you want. Consciousness is probably a better word. The world is a manifestation in consciousness, which is aware of all things.

You are not "you" or the body or the mind. You are consciousness, which is aware of the body/mind/experience.

The confusion comes from the ego. What this means is that the mind of your average human has this idea inside it that "I am this body" (or something similar) and simultaneously holds the idea that this is a true thought. As a consequence, this neural network/learning machine that is the human brain, behaves AS IF IT IS A BODY. This is all a deterministic process. Obviously a brain will behave according to what it believes.

The result is a phenomenon where every action that the body takes and every thought that it has is associated with the belief that "I" am the doer of this deed or "I" am the thinker of this thought. This then reinforces the belief that "I am this body". This is the ego. It is an illusion.

Consciousness is simply aware of this illusion; it is aware of the experience of believing you are a body. In an enlightened being, it is aware of it's true self as the fundamental reality.

There is no reincarnation. Each human is really just a manifestation of the same fundamental reality. A vessel thought which god experiences itself.

You equate God with man? Heresy! Burn him! Cheesy
560  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Article: China’s Huawei criticizes US security complaints as trade protectionism on: January 22, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
Meh. They're just worried that Foxconn might stop outsourcing their "Apple management" branch to the US. Grin
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