you COULD maybe co-locate it in the states get around vat that way ...but me I'm about 15c plus maybe more on such (guy in Iowa) could probably do better in Oregon or some such but he knows Titans..and my rate here at home is 14.6c kwh anyway

on the other hand with so many titans now at the house (from 2 to 4 with the other 5 in Iowa) I sure can't just eat the electric anymore and consider it just added LTC to BTC

So my logic is with most of my electric miners (I'm never home) ALL THE electric I use in the house from now on will be paid for by mining....also I have a decrease of about 4c kwh

for Winter rates the 2nd week of Oct.

In that I heated the house last year at 85% rate with 3000 watts or so....6000 watts or so should not be a problem to do the same

Thus the logic ..till they doorstop they pay electric for themselves each month (including my puny home/house use) and they Heat the house this winter......

anyway ..who'd a thunk it?

but anyway such an option of USA hosting ..if you trust someone to send it to them under their name and host it....would get around Vat and also maybe less  expensive

electric costs then Europe?.....probably unworkable but just a thought

I waiting for the China miners to announce say a 8mb block fork on Friday just to round
 out the week. That could make Bitcoin go pear shaped in a big way. 2014 180 used coin redux

FML

hell works pretty good from my point of view mining at 3400mh...follows btc like Yoshi to Mairo ....stable....in my use of such to manage LTC to BTC

I keep about 10% in LTC rest goes to BTC

this stability is the crux of why folk use and move and bag hold 'boring' LTC......sometimes it is nice to escape the drama of the crazy bi-polar girlfriend (BTC) and run

home to mom (LTC)

lol

yeah that is the assumption here is my reply on this in another thread that includes my 'guesses' and the biftinex terms of service link (cached)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1573336.msg15823772#msg15823772

terms of service cache alone less my rant from above (cached original is down)

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DMFWehppBtkJ:https://www.bitfinex.com/terms+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Their terms of service state in this ONE line all that matters.

There is no guarantee against losses on the Site.

You can read thru the rest of the agreement.....but the users of bitfinex will sue them ...bitfinex will sue bitgo......bitgo will sue back etc etc and what will all come out in the
wash one way or another is again from my previous link above rant..is they will not have the funds to refund even if they wished and bitfinex the corporation will take the fall
and all the users eat the losses etc

imho

the only way out is make a deal with the hacker for 10% loss .....otherwise .....bitfinex will simply go bankrupt imho and wash their hands of it all.

hope I'm wrong and another way out but I just don't see it

From Bitfinex terms of service currently cached only. Grabbed it just now. If any doubt they are gonna stick the users for the site this should clear that up as a YES THEY ARE.

There is no guarantee against losses on the Site.

You may lose more than is in your various wallets on the Site if you engage in financing on the Site.

cached link

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DMFWehppBtkJ:https://www.bitfinex.com/terms+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


Anyway, all they need in that entire page imho is the 1st line. Or so their law firm will say.

They are INDIVIDUAL wallets....if your wallet was NOT hacked you likely should be OK. (unless bitfinex goes bankrupt) IF you did by chance have a wallet

that was compromised.....imho you are screwed for sure.

Others can chime in here ....but seems as clear as mud to me from what I know of LAW firms and terms and conditions..(hopefully I'm wrong....but even if wrong I doubt

they have 70 million to cover this even if they do lose a court case say 2 years from now)

Only and I mean ONLY option I could see is make a deal with the hacker and HOPE he only wanted 10% as his fee.

No other out that I can see.  (I have no money in bitfinex just from the sidelines here slap me down if you want for my 2c worth ..perhaps I should not even be commenting)

but anyway here is the cached link to their terms

as getting 6 nos knc 400mh 5 cube titans  as my share for 1900 each with shipping I can state my guesses

1) knc kept it quiet so they could get the titans back they were mining in the data hall..ie caught by surprise by higher ups bankruptcy annoucnement imho
..thus with cameras/security/liens etc
   only way to get the equip back was to bid on it..thus why the no info on coindesk (sam cole gets on there all the time) no info on their Swedish
   asic miner thread former sales thread ...zippo
.....we found out by accident asking about broke stuff we wanted to bid on that may have hit the trash heap but we thought...the old RMA stuf in the back...
   maybe no one even knows what a titan is there anymore from the staff turnover from 2 years ago etc..thus the law firm got a copy of this (again
the standard sales/customer support/sam cole email on their main page all does not work ..i tried myself.....as a 2nd aside to compare info I got NO
replies....the first ask about this stuff we were afraid would get tossed also included kurt's old tech email...that musta got thru...thus they had it
all locked up imho. We won the 1st auction of 24 due to this and shocking them was a closed bid auction the last 2 auctions were open bid and knc
proper imho walked in and took the works..cause they could see whatever was bid and just up'd it at 160 full size bid lots .ie tried to take it all got most.

2) at 400k for both auctions knc got approx 190 working 400 mh titans back I say...IF I can ROI in 5 months or so at 14.6c kwh per titan at knc's
supposed 4c kwh rate they can get this 400k back in like 3 months probably..so they HAD to bid in that it was trapped in the data hall you can
make big bucks on titans yet at 4c kwh imho was a no brainer had to keep it quiet and had to go for it all to get it back

3) they really really hate the IPO guys they stuck on the data halls etc investments....if they would have opened it up the sale to the world on these units imho would have gone
for much more...but being knc this his how they roll imho......just happy we escaped knc's Sargon's all seeing eye and got out of Mordor...we got
crushed in last two auctions..including the 3rd one which was partially working dross stuff and rma's but being dump and stupid and lucky fell into
the first one ..won it...spent the next two weeks while they struggled with the paperwork venting law firms to vent the bankruptcy law firm etc..(I now
have google street map skills of varous yuppie lawyer type addresses in Sweden....more useless skills lol)


Anyway KNC ...I WIN you dicks.....you are bankrupt.....I'm still minig and killing it...so there (putting aside the fact they have sock'd away millions of $$$
so don't bust my bubble I need a win here) anyway in denial or not I'm calling it a win...knc proper is out of business ...I'm still killing it on Titans so its a win in my book..
delusional though that may be...gonna go with it as my end game to knc's end game

hell at least we were a 'little bit of sand in the gears' on their plans.....anyway again calling it a win (but then again being evil we are still looking at 20% damage
rate on shipping and how it was put together with parts by temp workers ..and of course all cubes 120 or so have to be re-done due to crummy/wrong thermal paste
from what we can tell by heat compared to our regular cubes..but hey this is KNC we kinda expected that and was reflected in the bid of 1900 with shipping each...
so still calling it a win damn it)




knc...we do evil well! (tm knc)



er sorry kinda drifted off topic here but hey the OP started it POINTS AT OP!

but back to on topic of much MORE concern is HOW many A4 units are already out in the world to their IPO investors (assuming they got some as they asked) who have first dibs

Also innsilicon being a 'chip manufacturer" and its main reason to do these 14nm chips was to get it funded by IPO $$$ and asic chip/unit sales...thus when asic's all go away
as a chip manufacturer....they can use the infrastruture for NON asic 14 nm chips in the future ..a win win imho

so the concern to wrap up this rant ..if they are just in it to make chips and the more chips you make the more profit you make per chip and IF they are not gonna have their
own data hall (which limits how nuts you go releasing asic chips in the world....why wiz in your own profit pool)

THEN if the above is how it plays...these A4's are gonna (or the bulk chips also) gonna be more common then 'toasters' in the world soon especially if they got a nice
new 14nm equip process up and running for no cost...it will be balls to the wall baby .....A4 chips for everyone (shudder scared myself have baby Titans to nurture yet )

See prev guys post above. You all can make it for more then 3 units.  Go big  find someone in Central Europe equal shipping price 🚊😄

Well sorry to say I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall....the Chinese miners saying they are gonna fork ....nothing from the meeting to me means nothing was fixed
of this last year go around on block size...thus FORK (fml)

wait for it......

this was posted on another thread ..have not checked it but if true they never multi-sig'd crap ...and will dump it on the customers...likely in their terms of agreement it is your
multisig (supposed) wallet thus your problem

here is the quote..if true imho they will wash their hands of the responsibility imho

We don't use cold storage for bitcoin, since our implementation with bitgo we've used segregated customer wallets so that each user has their own bitcoin wallet.

bitgo is saying they were NOT compromised at this time also I've read

what a cluster

So because it is CUSTOMER segregated wallets so each user has their OWN bitcoin wallet that means they likely will just WALK from any responsiblity for this
in that it is likely stated in their terms of service someplace all funds in your above OWN wallet is at your own risk.

Hell with that kinda out...they probably walked off with the funds themselves....multisig wallets my ass..they never multisig'd anything or the funds would be there

hey i admit it is a crummy poll I made

but the 'thread' seems to be there is no way they can cover that much $$ and survive...but take this poll with a grain of salt..if I had a life I woud not have made it

my view is SOME or not all of these titans ran in data hall that is now defunct....and knc insiders were the whales that got the majority of the 160 offered..the

stuff we got 1st auction seems all new..but it is running 20% damage in shipping or temp worker messed up and complete re-do ..new parts but gonna be a complete rebuild to be safe

they DID use off the shelf thermal paste...so heck it was gonna be a complete re-do anyway i guess

nothing like stress testing stuff to 400mh with no themal pads on the dc/dc's for 1/2 hr to make them nifty black scorch marks on the chip and kill 6 dies dead as a result
on a unit

been a fun week with btc crashing and such

can't wait for the weekend when the Chinese miners announce FU to bitcoin core and they are gonna fork

cheap 180 usd btc here we come...deja vu to 2014

My point is in this is the A4 thread some or most of these likely were on the network and will return....the interesting thing is how many A4's will hit the world in September

with diff rising due to such and btc price (with ltc and alts following) down the tubes may make for an 'interesting' couple months (by that I mean in a Apocolypse Now kinda

vacation frame of reference)

crypto always drama

yep they are gonna sell a lot of papers and web eyeballs....and wait for it at the end of the week when the miners say they are gonna say FU to bitcoin core
and fork

then we will have a pity party of epic proportions (the other shoe to drop)

FML

Jeez that is a lot of money. I simply do not hang around with the right kind of geeks in my circle....should start hanging out with the evil hacker types

that is a lot of moola if they get away with it (likely imho)

Can you imagine some 16 year old kid doing this hack and he is sitting around going wtf do I do now...as his dad is yelling at him to take out the trash. lol

i take your point..thus the no frigging idea choice was added it can apply to all the above....

(its not like i really know how to setup a correct poll don't ya know)

edit:

below 65 million dollar source link (assuming that holds)



http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/08/03/bitcoin-bitfinex-75-million-stolen/#gref

Don't also forget the 'fundementally broken" part of all this when the Chinese miners and bitcoin core have their falling out and the miners fork bitcoin...already heard some talk
that bitcoin core would lock them out with a 1mb lock patch of some kind and cut the miners loose

add that to bitfinex saying oopsie we are folding can't refund the losses

and yippie skippy

back to 180 usd per btc again and deja vu 2014

silly hobby

AT a year and a half of block size debates I doubt they have reached consensus or they would be shouting it off the rooftops...so the other shoe shall fall wait for it

The problem with exchanges is it is NOT their money. Thus if hacked they can just fold and walk.

In other words for an exchange to be safe for every $1 in btc they would have to hold $1 in btc, but instead they rely on 'security' and
maybe hold 10% imho

thus if they are hacked they walk it is your risk (probably in the agreement to not let your crypto sit on their site after you exchange)

and go 'well we tried to have decent security oopsie"

and walk with the profits of the transaction fees etc that worked well for them before it all went poof

my poll on what bitfinex may do on this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1573661.msg15797288#msg15797288


my bet is they don't cover the loss but still stay in business

the poll i set up on this is a bit more complex

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1573661.msg15797288#msg15797288

my choice is they won't cover and be slimy and still not fold

Title says it all

Bitfinex. Will they cover the 65 million dollar BTC Theft or just fold?

You can comment here. But please take the Poll.

Myself I'd be shocked if they could cover a 65 million dollar btc loss. But the poll will tell here, so feel free to vote.