Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding.  These are not shipping in 4-6 weeks, ... October is when they expecting the first shipments to be made.  There will be order backlogs for quite some time after, it can be assumed.

Another thread on the topic:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67185.0

Latest update:

Running from the current block and estimating the target of one block every 10 minutes, means there are a little over 163 days to go.  That puts the date for block 210,000 to late in the day on December 7th.

The wager on Bets of Bitcoin agrees (nearly 3:1) that it will not be after December 9th:
 - http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=312

When bitcoin is traded, the forex currency pairing chooses the stronger currency (BTC) for the base currency and the weaker currency (USD) for the cross currency.  As such, prices are quoted as BTC/USD.   Now I can see why you would want to clearly show a price per BTC, in dollars, but specifically displaying it that way (i.e., USD/BTC) is confusing as it looks like a forex currency pair.

Perhaps displaying that as $6.25 USD per BTC would be an approach that is more clear?

There certainly is someone at JP Morgue tasked wtih keeping an eye on Bitcoin and this thread is probably going to be exhibit #1 in their next report describing why Bitcoin isn't a threat to the banksters bonuses just yet.

But that's how decentralization works.  And that's why Reddit is useful (downvote the comments from trolls) and Facebook is useful (censor the trolls) and Twitter is useful (follow those who don't troll), and the Bitcoin-development mailing list is useful (no trolling) and IRC is useful (where nearly anything goes). 

We aren't forced to use BitcoinTalk, but because some of the most engaging and necessary conversation occurs, this is where we spend a good amount of our time.  (averaging over 300K page views each day, lately.)

It is funny that you would use PayPal in your argument.  PayPal doesn't allow their payment network to be used to collect payment for pre-sales.

So unless BFL is ready to ship, anyone that pays with  PayPal could file a dispute and PayPal would investigate.  They'ld likely freeze all funds in BFL's PayPal account, and clawback funds from BFL's bank to cover any outstanding disputes if there weren't sufficient funds recovered in the PayPal account.  The customers who filed a dispute might likely see a return of the funds, eventually.

BFL does offer delivery estimates on the order form (e.g., for the BFL single - "Delivery: Units are shipped within four to six weeks from the date of purchase.", and for the Jalapeno, "October") so if they fail to deliver as per the terms then they should allow the customer the ability to obtain a refund.  But that is between the customer and BFL, not the intermediary.

Because of this, BFL can know that funds received will not be charged back and thus can commit the resources to producing product for each order sold.  They can offload the risk of future events to the customer.    What if it was some new upstart that started offering an ASIC product line, and lots of customers wanted to cancel their orders for BFL singles, for instance?

Bitcoin is simply another option available to cash-based businesses.  In many instances, Bitcoin ends up being the best option.


Bitcoin's raison d'etre is to have the freedom to carry on your business in the manner you wish to do so.

Offloading the payment process to a third party allows BFL to concentrate on designing and building BFL's product line.

Also, the reason most of those $250K worth of payments were likely converted to USDs was because the Bitcoin economy is still nowhere near self sustainable yet.  BFL pays its component suppliers using USDs.  It likely pays staff using fiat (though a bonus in bitcoin might be one heck of an incentive to help get a target met.)

Bit-Pay allows partial conversion and will convert to other currencies.  So even with a conversion to fiat necearry, BitPay helps to cut out a step.  Instead of BFL's current flow of funds (using hypothetical numbers):

 BTC -> (70%) USD [for salaries, overhead and profit]
     -> (30%) USD [bank wire] -> [recipient's currency]


the new flow instead is

 BTC -> (35%) BTC [for profit, kept in BTC.]
     -> (35%) USD [for salaries and overhead]
     -> (30%) CNY [for payment directly to supplier]


And since the conversion to fiat is more expensive than if bitcoins were used by both sides, there will be a constant push towards avoiding the conversion, as long as those BTCs have purchasing power.

We're getting there.

The reason the mining operators were able to pay in bitcoins was specifically because they kept some of their mining proceeds, knowing that their coins would have value in the future.  By doing so, they were able to cut out two conversions to or from fiat (once -- to fiat, when they received their mining proceeds and a second time -- back from fiat into bitcoins to be able to be among the first in line for the new BFL product line.)

Heh, Dwolla wouldn't do much unless you claimed you hadn't authorized the transfer.   Did you enter a PIN to place the order? 

They would work with law enforcement authorities though with the identity of any parties that had received the funds.


I do know that PayPal prohibits their service being used for pre-sales, where delivery doesn't occur shortly after payment.   

In fact, pre-sales offered in this manner might even be in violation with U.S. regulators.

Wow, just realized, that's less than six months away now.

If you can't find a trade, you might consider:

 - http://bitmint.weebly.com/buy.html

With VirWoX you can buy SLL using PayPal, then trade SLL for BTC:
 - http://www.VirWoX.com

Physical Bitcoin, paid for with credit card:
 - http://memorydealers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=bitcoin

There are very few options with PayPal as payment because PayPal expressly prohibits a merchant to use PayPal for the sale of Bitcoins.  Additionally, because the payment can be charged back easily, merchants that do have some angle must charge a higher fee to do so.

Tangible Cryptography is selling their Surplus coins.  Possibly the best deal for an order of that size.
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87094

I presume the "private investor" part simply means you didn't solicit the investor and that there was a prior substantive relationship.  As far as bonds not being equities and thus that affecting the requirement to register with the SEC, I believe that might be an inaccurate statement.

- http://bit.ly/voMtiX

Obviously for a business that operates online, locating it to a jurisdiction with lax securities regulations becomes a greater and greater opportunity.

Consider it like being an early warning indicator.

If all of a sudden a bet statement starts looking like someone is pretty sure about an outcome by wagering on it such that it defies general sentiment, I'm going to pay attention.  If someone has superior information then a prediction market is a pretty good method to get at that information to some degree.

That's why I was watching that extraterrestrials bet statement religiously:
 - http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=25

That statement would  be true if the government were to confirm that ET exists.  For a while it was just too close for me to feel comfortable.  The agree/disagree spread has since widened and now I'm more comfortable stowing away my foil collection and reverting the underground shelter back into its original function as the guest bedroom.

You locked the old thread but didn't include a link to this one:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85395.msg993290#msg993290

The site looks great.

A couple items.

1.) How is "Cash deposit at a local branch" a method for me to Sell bitcoins to you?  Was that intended to mean "cash transfer to a bank" e.g., Account-to-account (A2A)?

2.) Will you ever be selling bitcoins?

3.) On the Contact Us page:
 - http://fastcash4bitcoins.com/Contact.aspx
the link to your profile is missing the u= for userid.  Should be:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=57640

Is couriering cash something you'ld object to?  If not, up to what amount would you be comfortable?

(I don't have an actual need, just curious what the response to this question would be.)

Like it really matters?

Incidentally, ...

Watchlist feature has been added:

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90136


Also, 3,000 BTC .., valued just under $20K USD.

Heh, I keep seeing that and thinking I missed a huge rally overnight or something.  I'm presuming you are considering all 21 million BTC, even though less than 10 have been issued ...

Incidentally, a new exchange is offering options (including $AAPL).  There are not CALL or PUT options listed yet, and it is ..., yet another exchange operated anonymously, so remain aware of the risks of that.

 - https://bitcoinopx.com/trade

 - http://www.ukash.com/za/en/faq/what-happens-if-i-lose-my-ukash,-it-gets-stolen-or-damaged.aspx

I believe it is kind of like a first-to-spend situation.  But after that, if the person you bought the code from stole it, the merchant may have trouble getting the funds that you redeemed with them.

If that happens, the may take action against you (e.g., cancel an order, recall a shipment, cancel subscription) or if they don't have an easy method of recourse, pursue you through legal channels.

Since UKash isn't supposed to be used person-to-person, using it in that manner you cannot claim innocence.


 - http://www.ukash.com/uk/en/terms-and-conditions.aspx

Open source.

To quite Linus Torvalds: "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow".