Here is how an address like 1BRMLAB7nryYgFGrG8x9SYaokb8r2ZwAsX is found: Generate a random private key - this is any random number in the finite field used by Bitcoin.
Calculate the corresponding public key (a point in the elliptical group generated from the finite field)
Calculate the corresponding public key address (using the formula from my previous post)
Check the first part of this calculated public key address and see if it matches 1BRMLAB.
If it does then quit, if not go back and try again. After running this algorithm for a reasonable amount of time the key pair that generated 1BRMLAB7nryYgFGrG8x9SYaokb8r2ZwAsX was found. If you run the program again to find another vanity address that starts with 1BRMLAB you will find a totally different key pair and a totally different public address. It will be just another one of the very large number of public key addresses that just happen to start with 1BRMLAB. |
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First a public address does not contain just random characters. It is a structure that is calculated from the public key which itself is a structure being a point in the eliptical curve group. You realize they all start with the number 1, right? Well the entire structure is defined as: address = base58(versionbyte + ripemd160(sha256(pubkey)) + hashCheck) where hashCheck = first4bytesof(sha256(sha256(versionbyte + ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))))) and versionbyte is 0 in the real network and 111 in the test network. Second, these addresses could not be made by vanitygen - it would take too long. And by too long I mean the following: Here are some estimates for generating some addresses using just my laptop. You can extrapolate to a faster system, even a GPU system or even 100,000 GPUs and see that it is “impossible”: Exact pattern Time
1 found 1HszrwReND62cBZUBZhqLTPKxAoSsANuxK instantly
12 found 12UpCienamnaM8Vw8pdTEFJ39Mth23CK3N instantly
123 found 123r9SzaKwgZF6xjit3Svs1jTU8TWitrcn instantly
1234 found 1234Ru7M2a6HHXpr5sE31n7TdgSTXcREen instantly
12345 found 12345RDRciJmSBywxSGTJSHYrvAr4xBVUH in about 30 seconds
123456 about 30 minutes
1234567 about 1.2 days
12345678 about 70 days
123456789 about 11 years
123456789a about 640 years
123456789ab over 36,000 years
123456789abc over 2 million years
123456789abcd over 100 million years
123456789abcde over 7 billion years
123456789abcdef over 400 billion years
123456789abcdefg over 20 trillion years
123456789abcdefgh over 1 quadrillion years
So if you are going to go to all this trouble why not try to guess the richest public address instead of some small number of lost BTC? For example: 1LJY4ey9FVKKuodaDr84sdZDXLy5o8nFDY which as of the end of October contained 105,000 BTC, or about $250,000.00From above you can kind see that it would take a “long” time to find the key pair that generated any one public address like the one above. In fact the vanitygen program will not calculate how long it would take (too large) but to just get most of it (which does not get you the coins) here is the output from the program showing that you have a 50% chance of finding only most of it in 6e32 years: C:\downloads\www.bitcoin.org>vanitygen 1LJY4ey9FVKKuodaDr84sdZDXLy Difficulty: 2794725737275825531787289201741966674434639341 [102.98 Kkey/s][total 1497088][Prob 0.0%][50% in 5.965101e+032y] |
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I think it may be possible to figure out some of the coins that have been destroyed on purpose. But it is probably not worth the effort because my method would only account for a small part of the BTC that have been lost or destroyed. My idea would be to search for and find all addresses like the following addresses by searching for longer strings of words and phrases (in any language): 1But1DontWantToGoAmongMadxxxzDmyW6
1Peop1eA1iceRemarkedxxxxxxxxxuLyKu
12ohYouCantHe1pThatxxxxxxxxxzCjyMs
19SaidTheCatWereA11MadHerexxyTvEir
191mMadYoureMadxxxxxxxxxxxxxvwA4Up
1HowDoYouKnow1mMadSaidA1icexxZA4Nr
12YouMustBeSaidTheCatxxxxxxxz2tFa2
12orYouWou1dntHaveComeHerexxvtHbqq
1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE
1BitTaLkTVChristmasSpeciaLXXRix9Ea and add up all the BTC sent to these and other addresses like them. All of these BTC have been destroyed on purpose. |
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I have been thinking about it and I will try to answer my own question as that is only fair: I think I am a packer with exciting fits of being a mapper. Also I have noticed that I and most people I know are packers when it comes to things they “really know”, their particular areas of expertise and their career. For me, as an engineer, that applies to all the things I know and have done my whole career. For example this post (and my other posts to this same thread) concerning finite field mathematics and group theory as applied to a paticular issue related to the eliptical curve cryptography used in the Bitcoins system: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53177.msg635010#msg635010However, one of the things I find most exciting about Bitcoin is that it stretches me into new areas, areas where I really don’t know much (but sometimes think I do) – areas where I can be a mapper! As an example which is relevant to this thread I participated in an economics thread where there was a very lively and technical discussion concerning the definition of the money supply and how it applies to Bitcoin. If you read this entire thread – and that is my suggestion and hope for you – and you watch my posts you will see that I start out on one side of the debate but at one point I have one of those eureka moments and switch to the other side of the argument. If you could do me a favor and read this entire thread from start to finish (yes, all eight pages) and then report back on your thoughts here I think you will enjoy it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51899.0Please note that the thread starts out kind of slow but keep with it because it gets more technical and interesting as it progresses. |
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I put solar panels on my house. Set me back about 11K out of pocket. I have not paid one dime in electricity costs since the installation. Even if the cost of electricity does not go up the pannels will all be paid off in 7 years. Then it is all gravy from then on. With all the rebates I got from the state and the federal goverments it seemed to be a good deal so I did it. I am very happy with the installation and the fact I no longer pay an electricity bill. BTW if you are interested you can see all my electricity production and consumption here: http://egauge327.d.egauge.netThere has been snow on the system for the past few days so very little production. May have to get up there and sweep them off. Usually I don't - just wait for it to melt off. Good luck getting out of the noob purgatory! |
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If you already have a Mt Gox account you can usually buy BTC coupons instantly with PayPal or credit card at http://www.mrcoins.org - and you will pay a bit more to get them instantly. But I just went there and he is out of stock at the moment. Sent him a PM to see what's up. |
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This means you should probably set up a recycling system for the redeemed bars  It should be cheaper for you to get them back than to make new ones, right? |
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HeidelbergKid, Instead of getting into yet another long boring thread about deflation - there are so many already - I have another idea. Recently I have been reading a very facinating thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47053.0Here is the first post of the thread: The Mappers/Packers theory holds that there are basically two ways to think about the world. The first, Mapping, involves creating a logical model about the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapper_orientation- A person with mapping tendencies receives new information; facts, techniques, abilities, and undergoes a process of incorporating the new information into a personally developed and self-adaptive model of the world. The second, Packing, relies on pattern matching. A person with this orientation tries to match a new theory or situation to a previous one where there are known 'correct' answers. Most people are packers. To really appreciate Bitcoin, you've got to have a good working mental model of what money is, how cryptography works, and the shortcomings of current online methods of payments. This combination is rare - especially understanding money (hence the famous saying "Only two people really understand money and they disagree.") You can see in the writings of someone like Falkvinge, he really understands all of these things. Mappers who do really get very exicted about Bitcoin. To a packer though - it's pretty simple. Bitcoin looks just like a Ponzi scheme or a Pyramid scheme. Lots of money going in, no real work being done, nothing real being produced, early adopters getting rich. All the hallmarks are there. If it looks like a horse, and smells like a horse . . . This kind of thinking is remarkably widespread and usually effective - but is never sufficient to understand a radically different system like Bitcoin. Full Description of the Mapper/Packer Theory here http://the-programmers-stone.com/the-original-talks/day-1-thinking-about-thinking/So are you a mapper or a packer? |
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All of those physical solutions allow the private key to be read without damaging the 'seal', so i won't use them I have many of the coins and I have tried very hard to read the private key without damaging the hologram - to no avail. Please explain how you can read the private key from one of the coins without damaging the seal/hologram. |
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I think you guys should seriously review the literature on this before (re)inventing more EC math. I'm not saying your workings are incorrect, just that there is already a lot of research into what you can do with ECC and a citation is more useful than a reinvention. I for one would be hesitant to implement any cryptographic technique that wasn't published in the relevant journals. Cryptography, especially this type, is subtle and subject to unintuitive failure modes. A paper published via the usual mechanisms carries a lot more weight than a forum post. This is also one reason why using scripts can be more attractive than other techniques - it's less efficient but much easier to convince yourself of its correctness. For example, see: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1562272Could you please read post #32 on this thread and see if you can see anything missing there - besides a citation, which I am working on. I think the proof is almost self evident. Since the two key system proposed is a natural group theory extension of the already accepted one key system it can only be broken to the extent the one key system can be broken. |
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I really like the word precious.
Precious bits - mined at great expense of electrical power from the great sea of hashing possibilities!
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On the tabs above click on the "Home" tab, then type the word "deflation" in the forum search bar and you will find dozens if not hundreds of very good threads that fully debate and discuss every single one of your concerns/points ad nauseam. Plus you have already been given a very good thread as a starting point. So just click here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=11627 |
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I don't know if you have see this but check out http://ecdsa.org/stats.htmlIf you take your cursor and run it across the graph from left to right is animates BTC movemment. If you take your cursor all the way to the right and then pick a point in time, let say one year ago, and then calculate the blue area from day one through the day one year ago this blue area would represent all BTC that have not moved in over one year (lost, destroyed, saved/hoarded). Notice the large number of BTC that were created in the first year that have never moved. I believe that in that time when BTC was just a "toy" some (many?) people ran their CPU miners, got bored with it and then deleted the program (lost forever), others collected a bunch when they were basically free and are sitting on them = the "early adopters" |
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As far as what type of non digital commodity they are “closest too” I like the simile “Bitcoins are like baseball cards” because they are basically artificially rare collectible “things”
Now taking this one step further I have heard them referred to as “collectible cryptographic anomalies” or just “cryptographic anomalies” – and I rather like that.
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At bit of searching finds: "Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened- Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."
This has been interpreted to apply to all moneys. So yes, it is illegal, but it's not enforced unless you are trying to counterfeit money. That's where the word fraudulently applies in the law. Still looking for the original source. |
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I have not been able to log into the site for a few days now. Is it just me? Is the site down?
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It is getting hard to keep up with all the different threads discussing aspects of this same subject.
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Print the public key on one side and print the private key on the other side where no one would think to look for it?  |
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