For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.
Just facts: TradeFortress issued IOUs and sent them to users who trusted him. IOU means "I owe you". Thus he admitted that he owes to that people. Question: If one owes to people who trust him, but is not going to pay them, then who is that person? Where did I say I will redeem my IOUs? Ripple is also used for shares, you can't redeem them, so I guess dividendrippler is a scam. I made it clear in the title that you get a *ripple* Bitcoin which you have got. I don't accuse anybody, I just raise a question. How would you qualify a person who deliberately asked for trust and issued debt without intention to pay for it? |
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For a scammer tag, the accused person needs to have promised to do something and then failed to deliver on the promise. TradeFortress never promised to pay anyone any bitcoins here. If you trust him to do something that he didn't promise, that's your problem.
Just facts: TradeFortress issued IOUs and sent them to users who trusted him. IOU means "I owe you". Thus he admitted that he owes to that people. Question: If one owes to people who trust him, but is not going to pay them, then who is that person? |
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Oh, wow... Guys, thanks for bidding! That's my first auction here, I am learning how it works. I saw in other topics that people usually bid <amount> @ <price> and topic starter posts the auction state, so here it is: | user | quantity @ BTC | remainder | | Peter Lambert | 4 @ 0.01255 | 0 remaining |
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Wikipedia says: WebMoney transactions do not require a credit card or bank account, are final, and cannot be retracted. This is similar to Bitcoin, e-gold and cash and in contrast to credit card and PayPal transactions.
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One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries common. For example Norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesn't need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.
Water is not the only thing that needs to be heated. Sometimes people want to heat just a small part of their room (instead of heating the whole house). Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though. |
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On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...
I agree that the window of super-profitable mining is closing. I think Gavin mentioned a good idea in his recent interview. He said that maybe in future there will be water heaters that mine bitcoins. I think ASICMINER could develop such devices. The heat they generate would be useful. And it would spread adoption of bitcoin too. Just imagine, common people (non-geeks) would go to common shop and buy heating devices that subsidize the cost of heat (or even earn money if BTC rate goes up). I think this is a very promising market, very useful for bitcoiners and others too. |
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There is a EU ASIC supplier coming online with 28nm chips  https://www.kncminer.com/products/saturn175(GH/s)@$3795 to start shipping in September. I think we should look to these when we upgrade for many reasons. Firstly we will have to pay no import VAT and secondly at 28nm these are the most advanced and power efficient ASIC's to be announced so will last the longest. Then thirdly at that price there the cheapest $/(GH/s). We will need a new hoster in the EU or Iceland so if anyone can offer any ideas on that'd be helpful. I know some other company that promised to deliver in September too.... (2012). Delivery date will probably be more important than power efficiency in foreseeable future. But still might be worth of investing part of the capital to make a pre-order. Is there a reason to trust them, why do you think they actually will start shipping in September 2013? |
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Whoever put any trust at 100 BTC to TradeFortress in that thread is going to have a VERY bad time!
Do I understand it correctly, that it is risky to trust TradeFortress only if you have BTC IOUs from other issuers? |
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Oh, I am sorry. I lost some money in gambling too (a bit more than I expected to loose, but not too much). Maybe you could become a trader? It has much in common with gambling and could help you to develop your capital management skills. Define your set of rules of how you deal with your capital (e. g. don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't risk more than 2% of your capital at a time, etc). Create a spreadsheet where you track your actions and assets, buy pass-through to SatoshiDice (at least you'll get some of your lost coins back as dividends  ). Evaluate your portfolio daily, log your mistakes and achievements. |
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Yes, I would send 4 BTC to you. If I understand how it works correctly, then you don't need to trust me. You need to trust him.
I meant his BTC IOUs via Ripple of course. |
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And how do you plan to transfer this 4 BTC? Send me the 4 BTC via Ripple?
This will just mean that I have an IOU of 4 BTC from you. Now would you honour it?
That you can't actually get the 4 BTC was the point to show with this giveaway.
Yes, I would send 4 BTC to you. If I understand how it works correctly, then you don't need to trust me. You need to trust him. |
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Oh, wow.. His giveaway topic is visible to me, here it is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206948.0To expose and bring awareness to the flaws in the Ripple payment system, I am giving away 1 BTC on Ripple. This is a social experiment. Therefore, posts not consisting of an Ripple address to send 1 BTC to may be deleted. How it works 1. Register for a bitcointalk.org forum account if you haven't 2. Complete the following steps in your light (not a full node) Ripple client:  So you can copy and paste the address we're sending your bitcoin from, it's rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv 3. Post your address here. I will send at least 1 BTC to your address. That's it! I suggest reading RippleScam.org afterwards. Please note that you must exchange your bitcoins with an liquidity provider (Ripple does this automatically, when paths are calculated) in order to withdraw them from a gateway. |
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It's a Russian paypal. Accepted at the types of places Paypal is. Given that, it's not terribly useful for Americans.
Are Webmoney transactions reversible? |
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Has he stated anywhere that he even will honor this debt?
Have you received anything in return for these 4 IOUs? Generally anyone can issue arbitrary IOUs in ripple, as long as there is not even some intent by him to pay it back, you just got something equivalent to a piece of toilet paper that reads "this is worth 4 bitcoins from tradefortress".
Also why do you want to settle outside of ripple?
Frankly speaking I don't remember the exact wording as his original post disappeared  But he is a hero member, so probably he deserves some trust. IOU means "I owe you". It was issued by him, and probably he doesn't want to get a scammer tag. So theoretically there is a chance to get the money if you chase him. If you think this chance is higher than 1%, then you should participate in the auction I want to settle it outside the Ripple to get some attention to my offer. And also I don't want to have simultaneous trust to him and to some other BTC issuer (I heard that Ripple can exchange IOUs of people you trust automatically, without your consent... not sure if it is true though). |
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Yes, this is big. I tried webmoney long ago. It looked somewhat complicated, but it is definitely a big player with lots of exchanges and online shops that accept it. And their transfer fees are low.
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Oh, I can also do social experiment. 1. Will take some BTC loan on the forum 2. Will not pay it back 3. Claim that BTC is EVIL SCAM and more important Bitcointalk is EVIL SCAM  This reminds me of Matthew Wright's trolling. He received a scammer tag for that and had to actually settle it with his so called "victims" in order to get rid of it. |
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Just some replies from my social experiment: Wow,had no idea. Yes this will lead to people being scammed big time. I will make sure to take part in ripple threads from now on and try to bring awareness to this. BTW I think the way you put up this free giveaway thing to make your point is pure genius.
-Bitsinmyhead
so how can we spread the word and bring ripple down?
hey, thanks for the campaign against ripple. ppl should be aware that its even worse than fiat and now it exist only to get rich as fuck. keep up your good marketing Why did your giveaway topic disappear? Btw, trying to sell your debt, no luck so far: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207054.0You could participate  |
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And here is the countdown timer:
Timer removed. End time: 2013-05-18+00:00:00UTC
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I received 4 BTC IOUs issued by TradeFortress (rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv) recently.
I'm not sure if TradeFortress is going to repay it though. Probably not, because it was his "social experiment" to reveal the Ripple's disadvantages over bitcoin, and for some reason his topic got deleted.
What I'd like to do is to continue his experiment and to try to sell his debt via this auction.
If you win the auction, you will need to send real btc to address I assign to you, then grant trust to TradeFortress (rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv) and give me your Ripple address.
Minimum quantity: 1 TradeFortress BTC
Starting price: 0.01 BTC per 1 TradeFortress BTC
Minimum bid: 0.01 BTC
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Let's try it! rsAfp7jkeMotE4xtxfP766rWqJzgB6qqSq |
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