ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[SebastianJu]

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

[ThickAsThieves]

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

[SebastianJu]

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

If it will be 1TH on a chip the hashrate probably will be million times a TH. And such TH-Chip will be even more costly to create than the chips nowadays.
You mean forced mining or free transaction when you mine? Because forcing every pc to mine can become costly with power and wouldnt be very good for environment.
If a change in bitcoin protocoll is involved i think it will be hard to do. I can imagine a big opposition against some kind of forced mining...

[stripykitteh]

When you are making chips in the billions, the NRE is high but the marginal cost of production is negligible. That's why it will work. The hashrate will be very high of course but almost everyone will be getting some of the reward, which will almost exclusively be transaction fees.

[ThickAsThieves]

I'm amazed with your idea of getting a revenue with the phone, mining with it. Imagine a world were, not only banks (with fiat) are not involved on the economy in the sense they are now, but also people is helped to grow some money with that new monetary system. Simply great.

Even though its an interesting idea... i doubt that it will work out... the market saturation with ASIC's will come soon. So that one single ASIC wont bring much revenue at the end of the day. I mean 282MH/s (Avalon) dont bring much now too but it will become way worse when the ASIC's revenue comes close to the power cost running them. That happened with GPU's too at a point. So i think this project only has a limited lifetime.
On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

So im not too convinced of the idea. But i think ideas have to pop up to find out how to spread the bitcoin currency.

I had proposed this idea months ago in IRC. It is something that doesn't become feasible until maybe 5th-generation ASICs or such. The idea would be that mining would become largely spread on a user basis, and that in order to send a tx, you'd have to do your fair share of mining to support the network for that tx. It begins to make a lot more sense when billions of people use bitcoin, and you can get 1TH on a chip or whatever makes sense.

If it will be 1TH on a chip the hashrate probably will be million times a TH. And such TH-Chip will be even more costly to create than the chips nowadays.
You mean forced mining or free transaction when you mine? Because forcing every pc to mine can become costly with power and wouldnt be very good for environment.
If a change in bitcoin protocoll is involved i think it will be hard to do. I can imagine a big opposition against some kind of forced mining...

There's no way to say what specs, costs, or mining difficulty cocktail allows this to work yet. It's just a fun idea to toss around for now. If bitcoin lasts for many years, you'll see innovative ideas like this come to fruition.

Or, better yet, if people keep coming up with innovative ideas and investing them (ASICMINER), then it's possible you can build an economy around bitcoin to get us to the future faster

[SebastianJu]

There's no way to say what specs, costs, or mining difficulty cocktail allows this to work yet. It's just a fun idea to toss around for now. If bitcoin lasts for many years, you'll see innovative ideas like this come to fruition.

Or, better yet, if people keep coming up with innovative ideas and investing them (ASICMINER), then it's possible you can build an economy around bitcoin to get us to the future faster

Yes... its important. AM is now so big... one could say AM is 30% of whole bitcoin. That means AM needs to think about ideas how to ensure that bitcoin will live long. Such ideas are going in this direction...

[arsenische]

On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

I agree that the window of super-profitable mining is closing. I think Gavin mentioned a good idea in his recent interview. He said that maybe in future there will be water heaters that mine bitcoins.

I think ASICMINER could develop such devices. The heat they generate would be useful.

And it would spread adoption of bitcoin too.

Just imagine, common people (non-geeks) would go to common shop and buy heating devices that subsidize the cost of heat (or even earn money if BTC rate goes up). I think this is a very promising market, very useful for bitcoiners and others too.

[SebastianJu]

On the other hand... even when your smartphone creates some cents a day its probably much money for many people in different countries. But then again... it would use energy all the time... this energy costs...

I agree that the window of super-profitable mining is closing. I think Gavin mentioned a good idea in his recent interview. He said that maybe in future there will be water heaters that mine bitcoins.

I think ASICMINER could develop such devices. The heat they generate would be useful.

And it would spread adoption of bitcoin too.

Just imagine, common people (non-geeks) would go to common shop and buy heating devices that subsidize the cost of heat (or even earn money if BTC rate goes up). I think this is a very promising market, very useful for bitcoiners and others too.

Good idea... i guess the heat problem is a problem that wont be solved in the near future... so it looks like this thing can happen. One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries commong. For example norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesnt need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

[arsenische]

One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries common. For example Norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesn't need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

Water is not the only thing that needs to be heated. Sometimes people want to heat just a small part of their room (instead of heating the whole house).

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

[freedomno1]

One should calculate this through... of course... heating water with electricity is only in few countries common. For example Norway because of their cheap water power. But it would be a market if you can tell the buyers... "You pay X more and will earn XX more each year with it". The profitability doesn't need to be near that that miner investors look at. Normal persons will be happy with a 10% annual revenue.

Water is not the only thing that needs to be heated. Sometimes people want to heat just a small part of their room (instead of heating the whole house).

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

Bitcoin the worlds first money generating heater get warmed up and get a bit of a rebate on electricity XD

[irritant]

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

http://www.tellurex.com/pdf/PG1_spec_sheet.pdf

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130505145941.htm

sterling engine , anyone?

[nebulus]

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

http://www.tellurex.com/pdf/PG1_spec_sheet.pdf

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130505145941.htm

sterling engine , anyone?

Global warming 2.0?

[marcus_of_augustus]

Also, instead of disseminating the heat, theoretically mining device could convert it back to electricity. If I get it right, any contrast in temperature can be used to generate electricity. Not sure how efficient it would be though.

http://www.tellurex.com/pdf/PG1_spec_sheet.pdf

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130505145941.htm

sterling engine , anyone?

Global warming 2.0?

AGW has not made it out beta yet (temps are not rising) .... 

[friedcat]

Update

The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.

About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.

So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.

[Franktank]

Update
...funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved...

OMG!! MUST BUY MOAR SHARES!!

[VJain]

Update
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins.

How will you be taking in input? Will it be through an email based vote per share? Will it be by boardmembers?

[friedcat]

Update
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins.

How will you be taking in input? Will it be through an email based vote per share? Will it be by boardmembers?

We mean pay them to the shareholders and let them have the total control.

[furuknap]

Update

The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.

About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.

So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.

Thanks for the clarification and update.

As one of the critics of the dividend policy, I would like to stress that I am still bullish about ASICMiner, but that I think a more modest dividend policy would benefit the company better in the long term. In the short term, high (and incredible) dividends drive share prices up on expectation of future dividends to a point where early investors will have no way of exceeding their yield from sale through dividend.

A hard correction, regardless of how fair in terms of stock trading, will taint the stock and company and can make it difficult to secure trust in the share. Volatility is good for gamblers, not so much for investors.

At this point, if you stick with your expectations of getting 10% of the hashing network on average over the next 3.5 years, the real yield is around 5% per year where most people see ten times as much in a short period and buy based on that.

As far as I can see, there have been no fundamental changes in your company that would warrant a 50% increase in company value over the previous week. I believe the market would calm down if you were to publish those previously announced financial reports so that we have better insight into earnings and capacity for future earnings and sales.

.b

[philipma1957]

Update

The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.

About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.

So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.

 thank you for this policy.

also thank you for making an effort to care for and feed the golden goose instead of killing it off.

and finally thank you for allowing us to earn  some of those nice golden eggs.

[stripykitteh]

Update

So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.

Yes, thanks for addressing this point. It's what I was expecting you to say. Existing and prospective investors in ASICMINER can make their investment decisions based on the premise that ASICMINER will run in its current form for the foreseeable future, and that earnings are only retained insofar as they are needed for the company's own current and planned operations.