Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2024, 07:47:24 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 ... 108 »
61  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: New Miner X5 on BitFury 16nm chips on: February 18, 2016, 02:30:51 PM
SCAM Confidence Meter:   96% confidence


Evidence is building.


Recommendation:  Only purchase from official outlets.
62  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: [January 2016] Bitcoin Mining Datacenters by the Megawatt on: February 18, 2016, 02:27:33 PM
"1MW | Bitcoin ASIC Hosting | Western Technology Center (leased space from Dell) | Quincy, Washington, USA
Note: 2.5 MW expansion planned, no word on whether or not that has happened.
Source: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/10/10/dell-becomes-bitcoin-mining-data-center-provider/"

We do not operate out of Dell or have for sometime (Late 2014).  Thru this whole time we have owned and operated our own facility.  Dell was just overflow capacity.  Please change to reflect that.  Thanks!  We are in Douglas County, Washington USA.


Cheers,
Dalkore
63  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Surge Protection for several S7's on: February 18, 2016, 08:27:17 AM
That's false. In house test by me and others found no other surge protector was able to take a 200,000 volt hit and protect the gear on the other end other than a surgeX and Furman ice.

Amazing since nothing created a 200,000 volt surges. Since he cannot possibly measure such voltages.  And since Surgex only claims 6000 volt protection.  Every answer needs numbers.  Then fiction and outright lies are quickly exposed.  In this case, he even ignored Surgex and Furman specification numbers.  He demonstrates why so many recommend near zero protectors from Surgex and Furman.

We know other plug-in (appliance adjacent) protectors are also ineffective. A protector adjacent to any appliance must either 'block' or 'absorb' a surge.  Anyone can also read those spec numbers.  How does its 2 cm part 'block' a surge that three miles of sky cannot?  How do hundreds of joules inside a protector absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules?  More damning numbers.

Surgex, et al can sell magic elixirs because so many just *know* rather then learn.  Meanwhile a solution proven by over 100 years of science and experience harmlessly connects surges earth. Costs about $1 per protected appliance. Then hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside.  Using a concept that Ben Franklin validated in 1752.  Franklin also did not use magic boxes.  Franklin used the only item always implemented when surges do not damage - earth ground.

Only the most easily deceived would believe a magic box from Surgex or Furman provides useful surge protection.  Even manufacturer's specification numbers say otherwise.


Direct overhead power lines supplied the 200,000 plus volts. Like I said these tests were done for the power company which meant they supplied the main. Also there are many tools that measure voltage in excess of 200,000 volts. Yes all of this gear used ground rods and all gear was bonded to ground. Obviously the voltage spike was drain to ground but the fact that the two prices survived and the devices on the other end only saw 138v from the hit. Take as you want but these are facts

Overhead transmission lines are either 12,500 volts or 25,000 volts.   I think you may have an extra zero in there.
64  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: New Miner X5 on BitFury 16nm chips on: February 18, 2016, 08:25:40 AM
Is he saying he is going to re-solder all the chips with the new BF Chips?    Do we understand how precision it takes to make these?
65  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Do you mine in a pool or on your own? on: February 18, 2016, 08:24:05 AM
95% of my clients use pools and a few go solo.
66  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What network hash rate is finanicially sustainable long term? on: February 17, 2016, 09:31:34 PM
Centralization, the intended vs realized nature of the network, these are certainly factors that will influence the acceptance/adoption/future of Bitcoin.  

I still get the feeling that (myself included) everyone is focused on the short term, where everything is mining reward centric.  Granted, this makes sense for anyone with money at stake, it is the short term that is making or breaking our investments.  

But I am curious about the long game here.  Lot's of folks talk about "to the moon" and "Bitcoin can change the world". From a financial perspective, some seem to feel like selling bitcoins at any price that is foreseeable in the near future would be foolish, because it is bound to appreciate greatly as the network grows and becomes more heavily utilized by the general population.   I am interested in a technical analysis of mining from that perspective, one whose primary source of revenue stems from transaction fees, not mining rewards.

Certainly, price increases will prolong the effective relevance of mining reward revenue.  But eventually, it will be transaction volume/fee percentage that caps mining revenue.  If we ever get to that point, a point of widespread adoption, I think it is a reasonable assumption that price will have had to come to some level of stability. I doubt merchants will accept bitcoin on a globally significant scale without price stability, barring some instant, free/low cost, exchange mechanism for converting BTC to fiat.  

So with the assumption that you reach a point where the price ceases to increase drastically.  And also assuming that by that time, the network has shifted to operate on the lowest cost power available, you are left with two basic variables.  Revenue from network usage vs Cost of operating the network at a given hash-rate.   This is obviously an oversimplification, as the hash rate will probably influence the confidence in the network, and hence tie back into its usage/overall revenue.  

One of these evenings maybe I will do some research and try to come up with some data based numbers, but basically:

1) Assume Bitcoin grows to handle some X % of global economic transactions (X needs to be derived from some realistic source)
2) Define some upper limit Y of % Fee that miners can expect to be paid for handling the transactions (compared against current fees for other payment methods)
3) Assume power costs are condensed down to some minimum, perhaps we call it $0.01/kWh
4) Assume we start coming up against some asymptotic efficiency limit of silicon/efficiency (this number would probably overestimate efficiency, but that leads to a more conservative model)

It should be possible to come up with some model that gives upper and lower bounds to theoretically profitable network hash rate, given a total $ amount of network usage.

If this model was put into some sort of iterative simulation, it might even be fun to integrate other factors in adjusting the bounds.
For example, if globally the network has a total potential hash rate of 10 Exa, but only 4 Exa is predicted to be viable, the existence of the remaining 6 Exa powered down represents a security risk, and potentially negative impact on network usage.

Long winded, but I am just really interested in the long term aspects of mining.  I have my $5k tied up in my little apartment experiment, and it may or may not ROI.  But whats really interesting to me is if the mining sector is really aligned with the future of Bitcoin, or if mining is simply a gold rush right now, with near sighted goals neglecting to account for the long term viability of the network.  

I think you are missing the critical point.  Being that Bitcoin is a decentralized p2p digital currency, that means there is no central authority.  

Next point, how is the price determined and who determines it?   Answer: The market determines it.  

Question:  How is the price determined?    Answer: The price is basically a mesh of the 4-5 highest liquidity exchanges, personally I used a blended price that averages them all

Question:  Do miners control the price of Bitcoin?   Answer: No

Question:  Did the miners ever control the price of Bitcoin?   Answer:  Not fully but at a time when there were many more Bitcoins to be mined and the price was much higher than the cost of production, the miners had GREAT influence on the price.    

Why?:  Because they could CHOOSE to hold back supply and pay bills from past earnings and that would LIMIT supply and that tends to raise prices.

What does that mean?:
 It means that because the prices are basically marginal (break-even) on the most efficient miners, miners that are not paying for expenses from sources outside of their earnings and are forced to sell Bitcoins as soon as they can and that puts constant downward pressure on the price (not good for miners).   Also there is really nothing that would FORCE the Bitcoin exchange market to play nice so we could get into a situation where the market could get upside down and the miners would just have to take it.

Conclusion: Satoshi was a great visionary that we owe a great debt to, but he had one flaw in his project.  The flaw was securing a trust network with human greed.  This will likely get consensus as time goes on.  I know its the hard truth but it needs to be said.  I hope for the best but plan for the worse.

67  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Surge Protection for several S7's on: February 17, 2016, 02:18:02 PM
You should just have a licensed electrician install a PDU (Power Rail) for your units, those have built in surge protection and will be rated for that load.  You will sleep better.
68  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Payouts stopped on Slush's pool on: February 17, 2016, 02:15:54 PM
Last payment 24 hours ago, nothing unusual as of yet, I'll keep you posted if I experience the same.
69  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What network hash rate is finanicially sustainable long term? on: February 17, 2016, 02:10:21 PM
What you will see is more centralization for the super-majority of the network.   We are at a point where cost efficiency and scale matters.  You just need too much hardware and it requires and certain amount of cooling and power to keep it stable that far exceeds homes and now even commercial spaces that are not specialized for Bitcoin Mining. 

My fear is that in the end it will, for the most part, be just the ASIC Chip manufacturers competing directly with their customers even while selling hardware.   If that is their plan, they should be ethical and come out and say it, if they don't it will become obvious and we will figure out regardless. 
70  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Bitfury Containerized Plug and Play Datacenter on: January 31, 2016, 09:48:15 PM
I would love to find a client to host one of these units.  This has been in the works for years, good to see it as a reality.  Immersion cooling is a growing technology, and Bitcoin Mining is a near perfect test-case for the viability of the underlying technology.  It is a very efficient package overall and in the times of rising difficulty, efficiency is key

-Dalkore
71  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Are we all going to power consumption hell? on: January 31, 2016, 09:45:41 PM
We are on hydro-electric power.  No sins here.

-D
72  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What I need to buy from bitmain to get everything working? on: January 30, 2016, 07:02:23 AM
So I'm planning to buy an S7. I understand that it doesn't come with a PSU so I'll buy that too.

What else? There is something called IO board. Should I also include it to get it working?

this will help you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1194785

I haven't got an S7 myself, but as far as i understand, you only need the S7 + a PSU

Make sure you do a profitablity calculation, and read up on the noise, heat, maintenance,... before you start mining!

This is correct, you need a unit + PSU and a place to run the miner that keeps under 77 degrees and is not humid.
73  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" on: January 30, 2016, 06:54:34 AM
Re container: probably a good deal if it costs 1-2mil and you have spare 2MW available.
I calculate that with halving coming and assuming just 2X difficulty increase until july 1 and 2X difficulty increase from July1 to Dec31 maximum bitcoin revenue would be somewhere between $4-5 mil in 12mo and ~$0.9-1.8 mil in electricity cost per year (first number for $0.05/kwh and second for $0.1/kwh).
However, who knows how much difficulty will increase. On the upside, price can increase and bail you out.
I wonder if anybody on the forum have access to 2mW?


I have access to 2MW.
74  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Runaway miner acquisition "syndrome" on: January 30, 2016, 06:52:03 AM
What is being highlighted is how the price does not "have" to pay friendly compared to mining ROI.    Miner's don't for the most part determine the price of Bitcoin.   It will be interesting to see how this plays out once we get to a point where the newest units are only breakeven ROI.
75  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" on: January 27, 2016, 07:54:06 PM



That top picture is not too far off the mark to be honest.
76  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is unsustainable, according to Vice on: January 27, 2016, 06:28:09 PM
I would not declare Bitcoin dead but as we go along, energy usage will become a large issue that does not have a easy solution.   Bitcoin mining is a zero-sum game, difficulty determines profitability and profitability determines the health of the network.  One thing is for sure, the Bitcoin network will centralize like Visa so that only a handful of large mining interests or ASIC chip makers will control the network.  This will come much sooner than people expect.  
77  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: How to make an asic miner from scratch using 16nm Finfet chips from TSMC? on: January 27, 2016, 06:19:47 PM
Step one - Write a check for $2-5 million for development.    If you are not prepared for this step, then the rest will not matter.  It is a very expensive endeavour. 
78  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" on: January 27, 2016, 06:16:08 PM
BAMM - a WORKING 16 nm full custom ASIC chip @TSMC ! 5x more efficient than our 28nm. Sales to public start shorlty. Decentralize @Bitcoin !



https://twitter.com/bitfurygeorge/status/677132522074017794


This will raise the difficulty even more, that will promote more centralization unless they limit orders sizes, which I find highly unlikely.   We are at a point that centralization will not be stopped, the only thing that could slow this process, is if the chip makers stopped self-mining and raising the difficulty.   Bitcoin mining is a zero-sum game so what one person does, affects all miners.


-D

79  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What happens after 16nm? on: January 27, 2016, 06:10:27 PM
IBM recently announced that it has recreated the Silicon substructure used in making processors. Currently silicon can go to 10 nano meters but IBM's can go to 8nm with there new silicon.

Doesn't affect Bitcoin, you have to remember their are only a handful of chip foundries in the world.  You will not even get access to that tech for years, there are large multi-national corps that have priority to those runs and technical data.   Bitcoin will always be getting the last few generations of die sizes, many of the 10nm & 7nm runs are booked out 18-36 months in advance.   
80  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: What happens after 16nm? on: January 19, 2016, 05:45:24 PM
Not much for the public market.  Development costs really start to rise and 16nm and lower.  At a point you even start competing for resources that large fortune 500 companies use at the chip fabs.  I think 16nm is a good place to consolidate the market and see how the BTC halving plays out.
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 ... 108 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!