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621  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 07, 2015, 10:09:59 PM
Comon? You really believe a country that can create its own money out of nothing is a good thing? Why aren't other countries doing because "in and of itself" it's good? Hell, why doesn't some small nation just get to printing? --They can't do it because everything is tied to the exchange rate of their currency to the reserve currency (the USD). We are in control of it; we set the price. This really is my only point out of all of my writings for you to see and internalize. The US is in control. That's why every thing I am saying to you sounds wildly outrageous. You are part of those in control. You are seeing it from one side and because that side is in control, you think that is reality for everyone.

I think I get what you are saying here.  Sure, most of the time things are priced in USD.  Like EuroDolalr or YenDollar or whatever.  But people can just as easily talk about the EuroYen instead of the DollarYen when quoting prices.  This new country that just prints $ would see its FX decline in relation to all currencies, not just the USD.  Even BTC is quoted in dollars often but can also be quoted in EUR or whatever.  The reason that the USD is in control, as you say, is because well if I work in Indonesia or whatever and someone wants to pay me, I would much rather trust the USA than Vietnam or whatever so I would much rather you paid me in USD.  That's just because that country has good things going for it, there is nothing wrong with being preferred currency if that is the case.

I just don't agree that "we" set the price of these other things you reference.  The USD is not set by any one party.  Sure, the Fed has a lot of control over it because they control short-term interest rates, but there are so many other global factors that affect the value of the dollar that it is difficult for me to accept that our government controls it.  And even if they do - I just don't think it matters.  It only matters if you are doing business with the US, in which case other countries WANT our FX to be weaker so that they can sell us more stuff!  But in the long run it is inflation that affects the strength of a currency and this government has done a good job of keeping that in check.

Creating money out of nothing IS a good thing if that money is being used to invest in productive assets.  If a country prints its way into a fortune and has no economy, it is worthless.  But if a country prints a fortune and create unlimited, no-pollution portable power source or something crazy, that currency will be worth a lot.  It just depends.  And I think in this case the USD is doing well - they have the best tech industry, the best healthcare industry and a slew of other things going for them.  Sure, it could change tomorrow but that is speculation.  And having that argument is much different than saying the USD will be worth $0 in 100 years because it's much harder to think it through and say I think the US won't be competitive because of X or Y.  Those points can be argued but saying that it's screwed, well that's just an opinion.


"It only matters if you are doing business with the US, in which case other countries WANT our FX to be weaker so that they can sell us more stuff!"

--Now you get it. The US is a major importer. Other countries want them to buy their stuff, but when the country that is selling to the US wants to do some growing of its own what happens? Well, their currency isn't worth shit globally even though they are selling the US massive loads of stuff. So they go to the US for a nice credit line and a favorable exchange rate only to find that the rate has teetered once again in favor of the US dollar. It is no coincidence.

"If a country prints its way into a fortune and has no economy, it is worthless."

-- I agree completely. Problem is this is essentially what is happening in the US right now because its only economy is exporting dollars. Financial transactions are the leading "product" produced. Yes, the US makes things, but not nearly on the scale it used to.

"But if a country prints a fortune and create unlimited, no-pollution portable power source or something crazy, that currency will be worth a lot."

-- This would be great, but why go through all that trouble as a country if you could command power over what currency that power source was designed and built with? Have someone else do it using your money which you control.


The US and their currency is not going anywhere. Same with other countries as well. What will change I predict is how foreign countries trade with each other. I believe in the future, all global trading will be done with a unified currency ("The World Dollar" or whatever you want to call it). Countries will exchange their respective currencies into "The World Dollar." Trades will be made using this World Dollar and upon completed transaction, those World Dollars will be immediately exchanged back into the denomination they originally were.

USD --> World Dollar  (Make trades globally)

World Dollar --> USD (Profit or Losses from global trades)

The world dollar serves as the "exchange rate" so no longer does USD/YUAN at (Example--$1.50:1 yuan) show up when the US strikes a deal with the China for instance.

622  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitstamp's stolen BTC on the move on: January 07, 2015, 07:16:44 PM
It's rather ironic the desire for decentralized, anonymous activity, but as soon as the masked thieves come out to play, it's a witch hunt to find out who did it.
623  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 07, 2015, 06:54:25 PM
NotLambChop -

Where did the 2/3 go? -Into the pockets of worthless scoundrels who are taking speculators money. It's a damn theft market right now. You have a lot of money? -Start an exchange. Profit. Close up shop.

No country would adopt a currency it can't control? I never said they would. I am alluding to the idea of SDRs (Special Drawing Rights-Currency units). This concept already exists and is used by the US and a few other countries, but is in need of new lifeblood. This is where I believe Bitcoin's technology will take it.

BTC-

Comon? You really believe a country that can create its own money out of nothing is a good thing? Why aren't other countries doing because "in and of itself" it's good? Hell, why doesn't some small nation just get to printing? --They can't do it because everything is tied to the exchange rate of their currency to the reserve currency (the USD). We are in control of it; we set the price. This really is my only point out of all of my writings for you to see and internalize. The US is in control. That's why every thing I am saying to you sounds wildly outrageous. You are part of those in control. You are seeing it from one side and because that side is in control, you think that is reality for everyone.

The gold standard was dropped because after the war, Britain (the reserve currency at the time: the Sterling) had a massive run on the banks and they ran into a huge liquidity problem. They simply is not enough gold in the world to cover everything.

"The world is better off" as you say after dropping the gold standard was because this allowed the US most importantly to not have to keep reserves of a finite metal not because they just got rid of the stupid idea of gold. They instead used their own dollar (USD; which can be controlled and minted) as the new 'gold standard' for not only the US but the world. The US controls the "gold standard" of yesteryear today for the entire world. It's like being Midas pre-WWI. Dropping the gold standard allowed the US to boom as it could take on massive loads of debt without having to pay it back ever because they control it!

Problem:
Gold Standard = finite resource that cannot cover infinite growth

New Problem: The finite resource limits growth

Solution:
USD reserve currency standard = unlimited resource that can cover infinite growth

New Problem: Those who don't control the resource can't control their growth (anyone but the US -> dependency)


624  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 07, 2015, 05:01:00 PM
...
Money cannot be created out of nothing.
...

And yet there's Bitcoin Smiley


I agree, that's the whole point of Bitcoin. You cannot create more Bitcoin after 21 million. That's all there will ever be.

However, I'd argue Bitcoin is not money. It's a store of value that can be exchanged for currencies to buy things. This technology will one day become the placeholder many countries will exchange their own currencies to hedge economic ups and downs.

When the digital currency store of value price has a favorable exchange rate for some country's own currency, that country will exchange back to their currency it and deliver it to their economy through any number of ways to drive their economy. Conversely, if their economy is tanking, they will borrow funds at a favorable rate and hedge the loss by exchanging into the digital store of value. Once their economy flips, they make the exchange.

It's a genius idea.
625  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 07, 2015, 04:47:08 PM

I agree, the US doesn't need oil to be priced in USD to print money. I never said that. What I was alluding to was because oil happens to be dominated in USD, the US (aka the Fed-a private entity) can print money that is never disseminated into the economy (i.e. lended to banks as you've said above). What this allows the US to do is simultaneously buy oil with money that is non-inflationary on the US economy, purchase a commodity and sell it back to its economy at deflationary prices for a profit. Essentially, on the books it looks like the US economy is booming with all the capital coming in (cheap gas prices mean more spending, traveling; generally linked to improved economic conditions), but in reality, the money never existed and is being injected into the economy from an outside way to mitigate economic inflation on the home front due to the printing of USD. The commodity oil is like fake money. It is a vehicle to control economic factors based upon what the commodity is denominated in primarily (currently USD). The US is the best house on a bad block right now.

Secondly, printing of money alone does not cause inflation (again I did not say this). When the real value of the economic output is mismatched with the amount of dollars circulating, this is how printing excess money (QE) becomes a problem. Without having the output to back up the QE, the US experiences inflation. If the US doesn't have the goods to support the high exchange value of the USD in the world economy, you get inflation. The only reason we have QE in the first place is because an economy that wants to grow fast and beyond its means (the US since forever) has to do it somehow

Step 1: you tell everyone your country has a ton of money by printing it
Step 2: Get them to buy your stuff/invest in you with 'real money'
Step 3: Economic boom town - profit
Step 4: Continue the process until every one is entirely dependent on your country for its economic value based on their currency that they won't let you fail
 
The US isn't ramping up manufacturing in response to some event. What I was talking about was bringing our manufacturing back to US soil and beginning to increase our world stake in the export market. Right now, all we export is dollars. You will see a return to American made products and a reinvestment in corporations housed in the the US. What this will do it allow us to export more products, decrease our reliance on QE and strengthen our hold on the world market. If we let go of being the reserve currency (we will eventually), we have to be a frontrunner in something otherwise the US stands to lose a hold on the world.

The debt in the US doesn't matter, it never has. In the 40s/early 50s, we actually volunteered as a country more or less to be the world reserve post WWII (see Bretton Woods Conference) since we had lots of economic resources and much power.

The volatility of Bitcoin right now is purely because of lack of no clear authoritative governance (as posters below say: a military). Eventually, if Bitcoin becomes a real thing, governments with lots of power and money and military will assume their slot in this, set up shop and push their economies in new ways using this technology.

The US cannot just spend those reserves on things like oil.. they literally sit on the bank's balance sheet as an accounting journal entry.  They cannot use it to buy oil or anything else.  You see, the dollars never make it to the economy UNLESS they are borrowed by people.  The only way you can say QE is inflationary is if you think banks DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESERVES TO LEND BEFORE and this "new" QE money allows them to lend and that causes inflation.  BUT, critically, the banks NEVER had a problem with having reserves before!  In fact, banks don't actually need reserves to lend - they lend FIRST then create the reserves as an offset on their books!  This is so important.  If you understand that you understand that QE is just an asset for asset swap which nets to 0 - swap reserves for US Treasurys - cash for cash - a checking account for a savings account!!  So many people got this wrong since 2009, please understand how important it is.

I know they sit on a balance sheet! That's my point, they don't exist! This is how the US can mitigate inflation. They buy oil shares with money they doesn't exist! They when the oil shares are sold for profit, money comes into the US economy they never existed before. What this does is allows the US to increase its economic activity without having to print money for banks to lend to citizens (QE = this option equates to inflation).

That is the problem: Banks do not need reserves to lend! Debt is only an asset to the dispensers of that debt. Banks that originally started in the US never had their own money, they were public businesses that lent money loaned to them from the Fed to the citizens of the US.

I understand how important this. It's one of the single largest reasons that US capitalism is killing itself. When citizens/businesses/institutions fail to pay back their debts to banks, few if any banks truly go under. What happens is they bundle all that debt, refinance the it, sell it parted out to other banks and lenders, and file some nice documents to get the Fed to stimulate the economy again with newly printed dollars they can lend.

All money in the US economy since its 'humble' beginnings in 1776 are debt. Money cannot be created out of nothing.


Man oh man. You need to get your arguments squared away and correct guy.

1. China's economy is not fabricated. It is quite the opposite; it is predicted to become the largest economy in the world in the coming years. This is mirrored by India's sentiment on China's Silk Road Initiatives of 2014. India is worried because China has an increasingly large slice of the Indo-Pacific corridor. Couple this with DPRK ties, the Russian-China oil pipeline proposals and major infrastructure ties with large African nation governments and you will quickly see China is not some joke.

2. Europe isn't teetering on collapse. The European Union Commissions latest report out in autumn of last year indicated all EU countries were set for growth through fiscal years 2015-16. Historic government deficients are being refinanced and paid due to strengthened economic activity.

3. Great Britain was NOT fine after losing reserve status with the Sterling. Since the early 1900s, the Pound has been decreasing. Since the 1950s after the end of WWII, the pound has been devalued by HALF in comparison to the USD.

4. China will happily take BTC or a regulated, world approved digital currency for their goods and services. What they want to make sure of is that Chinese money is primarily spent in the Chinese economy and that when it comes to foreign affairs, they get their fair shake with the debt they are holding on behalf of others.

5. The US won't be able to tax its citizens the amount necessary to make the debt interest payments one day in the future. We can only tax so many unborn future citizens (this is a disgusting concept that is mostly true). The government cannot infinitely raise tax burdens on the public without them getting angry. See any history textbook for prime examples. It's a fine line to walk.

6. Having the best legal system has nothing to do with America being in the shitter. Having the best military has nothing to do with it either, but I'll let you rationally decide which one gets the money and which doesn't. Military spending/strength has always been an economic indicator.

7. Stop thinking so small and US-centric. Interest rates and currency strength are proxies for everything else.
For a guy that claims to be in the financial industry, reading your posts makes me think you're a teller who has sat in on a few loan officer meetings. I don't want to take away from this thread, I like your ideas and for facilitating a discussion, just don't parrot things. The world is much larger than the US and on the contrary, many countries are superior to the US in many ways.


1 - no professional investor or businessman trusts data that comes out of China.  They make up numbers and hide problems.  Of course they are a huge economy that will continue to grow, the issue is that people do not trust their government to put all their cash in CNY.  Their legal system is nowhere near the USA, which is why China is nowhere near ready to be reserve status.
2 - Europe - lol - dude they've been saying that every year for the last half decade!  Those are just projections!  Greece is ready to leave and the structural problems that Europe has cannot be fixed without full fiscal and monetary integration of their banking system - something the Germans are wildly opposed to.
3 - Britain's currency being devalued is good for their economy.. they can sell more of their goods.  It is only bad for people who want to take vacations, because they have to spend more.  That is anything but a collapse.
4 - Dude, China was one of the first to ban BTC transactions..
5 - You are speculating, wildly.  Interest expense is down as a % of total government outlays because rates have fallen.  And again, the way our country works we can use the Treasury and primary dealers to buy US debt - we don't need outside forces to do this.  You are saying that people will pay fewer taxes in the future - why?  The US economy collapses?  I think not.  Because interest expense will be high?  No - we can control this by issuing shorter debt maturities, and besides rates have been PLUNGING for the last 30 years, so that part of your argument is also false.
6 - Dude having best legal system is what makes people want to do business with us and supports reserve currency status, which you seem to think is so important.  That is why I mentioned it.
7 - I'm not sure what this is referencing.
And BAS please understand that when I read your comments it is very clear you do not know what you are talking about so don't tell me I am a bank teller.  If you are delusional enough to not see that what I am saying is based on FACTS and what you are saying is based on speculation, things you read online and general surfacy BS then please, move on.  Quoting things like European estimates is just obviously clear that you are naive about many topics.  Every economist every Wall Street analyst 99% of the time predicts things to get better and follow a trend.  If you look at what actually happens and how often they are right, you will see that stuff like that is not worth a lick.  We all know the world is more global than the US, I'm trying to address everything that I can and I am not implying that the world is not connected globally.


1- Don't hand wave by saying "no professional investor." That's a cheesy line and dates your age at about 21. China doesn't want reserve status. Why would they? It would mean losing out on collection of all the debts they have from the US and other countries. If you put yourself in the shoes of Chinese economic power, think about it? The US is the example of what happens if you take on reserve status. Why the hell would they want to wreck their economy? What they would do is given a world currency, China would back it's use for foreign economic affairs provided when they exchange all their debts both held/personal would be given an exchange rate equal to the country the currency was held in.

2- Not to sound condescending, but Europe is a conglomerate of countries, not one economic house. You talk as if all Europe functions as one. Greece was bailed out not to long ago. The Germans (one of the economic powerhouse manufacturers of Europe) want Greece to remain out of austerity. The point of the Euro was to unit Europe after the war. There are too many competing currencies and countries in the area, so the idea was to unite making trade, travel and access to Europe easier for all Europeans. In a sense bolster the economy after being crushed from the war. Of course the Germans are pissed - do you realize what happen to them after the fall of the Berlin Wall? - Try supporting an entire new eastern half of your country that was decimated by the Russians with massive influx of poor eastern Germans.

3- The devaluing is not good. Everything in the world economy is tied to the reserve currency. When you are selling products from your country at a lower value, you may sell more, but you still make less on the economic scale. How do you think GB borrows their capital? and from who? Credit lines to GB come from the US (mostly). GB may have a booming economy from sale of its goods, but when it has to borrow 2:1 to finance the increased production of those goods, it's a net loss for GB.

4- China banned Bitcoins because it meant Chinese dollars were leaving the Chinese economy. China has a heavy tradition of gambling and superstition. For instance, similar to the US, Chinese elevators don't contain the number of certain floors. Certain numbers in Chinese signify death or life and people live by it. It's may sound like a farce, but it is heavily steeped into Chinese culture and business practice. Much of Chinese is rural and poor. Bitcoin was seen as a chance to make a lot of money quickly. The government locked it down because of that.

5- I never said any of this. What I said was that every year there are taxes taken from the citizens of the US. As the debt level rises, the Fed can either adjust the interest rates/the government can increase taxes or a combination of both. For the next decades to come, the US economy is shooting out of control. There are not enough US citizens to tax (at whatever future rate needed) to make the debt payments in the future. Tax rates are based on economic status which is ultimately determined by debt ratios.

6- I quote things because that is how I root my arguments. When you want to make a statement regarding something, one must references his facts. For instance:

"Every economist every Wall Street analyst 99% of the time predicts things to get better and follow a trend." - said by you


This has nothing to do with anything. 99% of all Wall Street analysts don't agree with 1% of Wall Street analysts. This is all that you are telling me. I don't want to harp on you, but in all your responses to me, you have not stated one clear fact at all nor backed up anything besides saying "I'm in finance." I don't care if you're in Sewage sales. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but clowning around on an internet forum where many young up and comers stop to get a perspective on Bitcoin and finance get ruined by your unsubstantiated statements.



626  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 07, 2015, 01:16:13 AM
As long as the rest of the world believes that our government can tax citizens and pay interest on its debt, the international community will have a demand for dollars.  Demand for dollars is not only buying and selling of goods - most of the time it is transfer of US Treasurys, which act as cash equivalents.  So if people think they will get paid back on their UST, they will have no problem dealing with the US and holding our debt.  And this payments, we agree, will always be made.
And here is the problem. There are growing indications that the rest of the world does not think that, and other powerful countires (notably China) are trying to move away from the US dollar as a reserve currency. This is not unexpected - no currency has remained a reserve currency for much more than a century - and it's certainly not going to come without warning, but it's definitely going undermine the value of the US dollar and radically impact the US economy. Will there be a recession? Very probably. Will the US recover? Again, probably. Will there be an apocolypse? Highly doubtful.

It's actually not a problem at all.  Those countries have their own agendas and reasons for doing deals which are political in nature.  China and Russia doing deals on the side means nothing when the rest of the world is not following suit.  If you want to see if people believe in the ability of the US to tax, look at the USD at ten year highs, look at US Treasury yields approaching multi-decade lows.. your assertion that people are losing faith is based on no facts, you are ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.  Let's just say you are right and the US loses it's status.. who is it going to go to?  China with their fabricated economy that no one has faith in?  Or Europe which is teetering on collapse?  There is no one else.  Full stop.  Period.  Besides even if it does happen, that is not a kiss of death.  Great Britain was just fine after they lost reserve status, their economy did not collapse and the world kept spinning.  I'll tell you one thing, it sure as heck won't be Russia or Brazil or China accepting BTC for their goods and services.

Let's step back and ignore what the market is telling you and also put aside our theories for a second and think:  why on Earth would the US all of a sudden not be able to tax its citizens and pay interest on its debt?  That is the fundamental question.  We have a powerful military to protect us, we have one of the best economies in the world and we have the best legal system in the world.  There are no rational or logical reasons to think that the US is on the decline or the dollar is doomed or anything close to that.  And looking at interest rates and FX strength you can see the world does agree with that statement.

 Man oh man. You need to get your arguments squared away and correct guy.

1. China's economy is not fabricated. It is quite the opposite; it is predicted to become the largest economy in the world in the coming years. This is mirrored by India's sentiment on China's Silk Road Initiatives of 2014. India is worried because China has an increasingly large slice of the Indo-Pacific corridor. Couple this with DPRK ties, the Russian-China oil pipeline proposals and major infrastructure ties with large African nation governments and you will quickly see China is not some joke.

2. Europe isn't teetering on collapse. The European Union Commissions latest report out in autumn of last year indicated all EU countries were set for growth through fiscal years 2015-16. Historic government deficients are being refinanced and paid due to strengthened economic activity.

3. Great Britain was NOT fine after losing reserve status with the Sterling. Since the early 1900s, the Pound has been decreasing. Since the 1950s after the end of WWII, the pound has been devalued by HALF in comparison to the USD.

4. China will happily take BTC or a regulated, world approved digital currency for their goods and services. What they want to make sure of is that Chinese money is primarily spent in the Chinese economy and that when it comes to foreign affairs, they get their fair shake with the debt they are holding on behalf of others.

5. The US won't be able to tax its citizens the amount necessary to make the debt interest payments one day in the future. We can only tax so many unborn future citizens (this is a disgusting concept that is mostly true). The government cannot infinitely raise tax burdens on the public without them getting angry. See any history textbook for prime examples. It's a fine line to walk.

6. Having the best legal system has nothing to do with America being in the shitter. Having the best military has nothing to do with it either, but I'll let you rationally decide which one gets the money and which doesn't. Military spending/strength has always been an economic indicator.

7. Stop thinking so small and US-centric. Interest rates and currency strength are proxies for everything else.

For a guy that claims to be in the financial industry, reading your posts makes me think you're a teller who has sat in on a few loan officer meetings. I don't want to take away from this thread, I like your ideas and for facilitating a discussion, just don't parrot things. The world is much larger than the US and on the contrary, many countries are superior to the US in many ways.
627  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin's biggest problem on: January 06, 2015, 11:33:26 PM
As dumb as it sounds, personally securing large sums of their own money is a new idea to the American average joe. Out of the Great Depression came the FDIC. Since then, the public has had backed protection in their bank accounts from the kinds of troubles Bitcoin is facing today. Many people believe leaving coins on the exchange is safe because they have to log in, they have a password and that log in is linked to their phone. It's a real dilemma to overcome. A third party arbitrator with multisig would be awesome.
628  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 06, 2015, 07:37:42 PM
Poor logic buddy.  Debt isn't an asset.  Or perhaps you are claiming that we're close to the point where that debt will start deflating rapidly  Grin

Oh boy. Where do I start!?

1. Depends which side you are on.
2. What is "global deleveraging" if not the rapid deflation of debt.

Specifically:

Fisher's formulation
In Fisher's formulation of debt deflation, when the debt bubble bursts the following sequence of events occurs:

Assuming, accordingly, that, at some point in time, a state of over-indebtedness exists, this will tend to lead to liquidation, through the alarm either of debtors or creditors or both. Then we may deduce the following chain of consequences in nine links:

Debt liquidation leads to distress selling and to
Contraction of deposit currency, as bank loans are paid off, and to a slowing down of velocity of circulation. This contraction of deposits and of their velocity, precipitated by distress selling, causes
A fall in the level of prices, in other words, a swelling of the dollar. Assuming, as above stated, that this fall of prices is not interfered with by reflation or otherwise, there must be
A still greater fall in the net worths of business, precipitating bankruptcies and
A like fall in profits, which in a "capitalistic," that is, a private-profit society, leads the concerns which are running at a loss to make
A reduction in output, in trade and in employment of labor. These losses, bankruptcies and unemployment, lead to
pessimism and loss of confidence, which in turn lead to
Hoarding and slowing down still more the velocity of circulation.
The above eight changes cause
Complicated disturbances in the rates of interest, in particular, a fall in the nominal, or money, rates and a rise in the real, or commodity, rates of interest.
—(Fisher 1933)

Ah, man you couldn't have said it better. Increased taxation can only cover indebtedness so long. If you poke the bear (the public) too much, they are going to get angry. Debt is a great asset for the financial industry in generating massive profits on the backs of "investers". Debt is awful for the public at large. The Fed can churn out as much cash as it desires, but ultimately the people have to pay for it. I just recently read that GB is finally paying off its WWI debt... my ass, they are just refinancing it.  Your point exactly sir. Kudos.
629  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 06, 2015, 05:00:57 PM
As long as oil is priced in USD, the US government can continuing printing dollars to pay for it and to maintain reserve currency status. If the oil agreement folds, the US can continue printing money, but the economy will suffer. This is one of the ways the US became so big so quickly.

The US looks like its suffering from Dutch Disease with its export being currency and not natural resources. Once the currency well dries up, banks will lose some power and the US will begin a multi-decade race to once again ramp up manufacturing (Made in America TM) to try to mitigate the loss. Problem with this will be that because of the eventual USD decoupling, it will be a race to the bottom.

This is where I believe Bitcoin comes in. SDRs under the guidance of the IMF are nothing new; essentially, a world currency basket to hedge currency volatility. Dump all your country's debt into an SDR and well, you know the rest.

The US does not need oil to be priced in USD to "print money".  This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the way our monetary system works.  It is not something that can be argued because it is a fact like 1+1=2.  The Federal Reserve can create reserves out of thin air.  This is what people call "printing money".  But it is not actually money printed into our economy as you say.  The banks have to lend in order for new money to be created outside of the federal reserve system.  Banks only lend if qualified borrowers want to borrow.  This is why we have not had inflation despite the Fed "printing" trillions of dollars over the last few years.  The reserve simply sit on the banks balance sheets, there is no mechanism to turn them into cash besides market forces like demand.

Why would the US not be trying to ramp up manufacturing now, and instead waiting for some event?  They are manufacturing more today.  Every individual company tries to maximize profits, there is not one God of USA that says hey, we should all do manufacturing real good now.  It's thousands of companies that work independently in the economy to make a buck.

I'm afraid I do not know the rest.  What I do know is that you are talking about getting rid of volatility with BTC which is down 70% in a year.  That makes no sense.  Look at a chart of the USD over the last ten years and compare it to BTC - which would you rather hold your $ in if you are looking for stability and not wild speculation?  You have ideas about FX and the USD but they are not based on facts and are non sequitur.


I agree, the US doesn't need oil to be priced in USD to print money. I never said that. What I was alluding to was because oil happens to be dominated in USD, the US (aka the Fed-a private entity) can print money that is never disseminated into the economy (i.e. lended to banks as you've said above). What this allows the US to do is simultaneously buy oil with money that is non-inflationary on the US economy, purchase a commodity and sell it back to its economy at deflationary prices for a profit. Essentially, on the books it looks like the US economy is booming with all the capital coming in (cheap gas prices mean more spending, traveling; generally linked to improved economic conditions), but in reality, the money never existed and is being injected into the economy from an outside way to mitigate economic inflation on the home front due to the printing of USD. The commodity oil is like fake money. It is a vehicle to control economic factors based upon what the commodity is denominated in primarily (currently USD). The US is the best house on a bad block right now.

Secondly, printing of money alone does not cause inflation (again I did not say this). When the real value of the economic output is mismatched with the amount of dollars circulating, this is how printing excess money (QE) becomes a problem. Without having the output to back up the QE, the US experiences inflation. If the US doesn't have the goods to support the high exchange value of the USD in the world economy, you get inflation. The only reason we have QE in the first place is because an economy that wants to grow fast and beyond its means (the US since forever) has to do it somehow

Step 1: you tell everyone your country has a ton of money by printing it
Step 2: Get them to buy your stuff/invest in you with 'real money'
Step 3: Economic boom town - profit
Step 4: Continue the process until every one is entirely dependent on your country for its economic value based on their currency that they won't let you fail
 
The US isn't ramping up manufacturing in response to some event. What I was talking about was bringing our manufacturing back to US soil and beginning to increase our world stake in the export market. Right now, all we export is dollars. You will see a return to American made products and a reinvestment in corporations housed in the the US. What this will do it allow us to export more products, decrease our reliance on QE and strengthen our hold on the world market. If we let go of being the reserve currency (we will eventually), we have to be a frontrunner in something otherwise the US stands to lose a hold on the world.

The debt in the US doesn't matter, it never has. In the 40s/early 50s, we actually volunteered as a country more or less to be the world reserve post WWII (see Bretton Woods Conference) since we had lots of economic resources and much power.

The volatility of Bitcoin right now is purely because of lack of no clear authoritative governance (as posters below say: a military). Eventually, if Bitcoin becomes a real thing, governments with lots of power and money and military will assume their slot in this, set up shop and push their economies in new ways using this technology.
630  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why Wall Street will most likely never invest much in bitcoin on: January 06, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
1. Bitcoin has to show that it is the dominant crypto platform with a long staying power. However to prove that, it needs large scale buy and hold from wall street, resulting in catch 22 situation.
2. If you look at one of Peter Thiel's videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMgK0TyV1Q), he talks about supporting monopolies. Bitcoin is an open system, hence no monopoly is likely which we should be happy about.
3. Wall street understands companies, even companies with platforms (Apple, Google, Microsoft, facebook, etc). They do not understand or invest vast sums into platforms that are not associated with one dominant company. Example-Linux and now bitcoin.
4. Cons of bitcoin (from the wall street perspective): bitcoin does not have a single charismatic leader that Wall Street comes to trust (a la Gates, Jobs, Besos, Zuckerberg, Page/Brin).

Conclusion: Wall street will try to build up and promote some crypto 2.0 (ethereum) that is/are associated with certain leaders (Buterin/Wood) or an alternative 1.0 (XRP). We'll see if that works.

Bitcoin has to survive and thrive WITHOUT wall street, as was originally intended.



I believe Bitcoin is a jointly funded government/private firm en-devour. Almost something a la backyard DARPA. I think the purpose of this technology is to divert the eventual release of the USD as the world reserve into something the global economy can use in the wake of the massive USD decay. America no longer can/wishes to be the world's bank, but with so much of the world tied to the USD since the oil/trade agreements of the 70s, it would collapse even the largest of powers (China for instance) if the US were to just stop printing.

You, me, big companies; sure, yeah we all want to make money off this. This isn't without its merits, but the big picture is something larger than money. It's power. Pegging the eventual release of the USD as world reserve to a world currency like Bitcoin or something like it (check out SDRs from the IMF) is genius. Right now, we have a bunch of scammy people with money stealing dollars from early investors and speculators. If you have the means to hold out, the real profits come after all Bitcoin has been minted. Exchanges will fold, the blockchain will be mature and those who hold either enormous amounts of Bitcoin (or whatever the digital currency is) or fiat will be the winners and in control.

631  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why Wall Street will most likely never invest much in bitcoin on: January 06, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
The largest pools of available investment dollars are public employee/union pensions that are privately managed. Decades ago, there was a mass "pension-fund movement" that was started in America as a way to make an impact on the growing corporate power of non-institutional business. The premise was that publicly funded pensions could amass large amounts of public cash and use it to tame corporate power and their ridiculous interests at the time. In the late 80s/early 90s those public pension fund managers prostituted their public interests for an individual share of huge earnings by selling off the fund management rights to private companies.

What we have today is a large body of employees paying into a retirement plan that is managed by a private company.

The model today:

1. A public employee puts money in (401K, 403b, 457, pension, etc.)
2. Employee has no say in what his/her money is invested in
3. Employee settles for a modest return (3-8%)
4. Private investment firm makes between 20-25% off public dollars while simultaneous mitigating risk as money is not theirs to begin with
5. Private firm gives kickbacks to institution who allows them to manage their public portfolio
6. Repeat

The problem with Wall Street getting into Bitcoin is that it's not regulated. The grand investment scheme going on since the 80s requires heavy legislation to keep it afloat. Wall Street wants in, but America no longer has private money, it's all been siphoned out of the investment system. Today there is an economic playground where all the players use someone else's money (yours) and profit.
632  Economy / Speculation / Re: Counter to "Why Bitcoin is dropping ...buying." AMA format / doomsday debunked on: January 06, 2015, 03:18:14 AM
The idea of the USD petrodollar was conjured up after WWII and implemented in the late 60s and early 70s during Nixon's presidency as mostly a quest for power; the US could offload some of its inflation and simultaneously increase demand for the US dollar. The US is the largest oil producer in the world, the oil agreement gave them (Saudi Arabia) military protection and arms in exchange for denomination of oil sales in USD. The point of the agreement was to offload some of the US economic inflation as those dollars never entered into the US economy, but most importantly to gain economic power over the one resource that rules them all.

Most countries continue to buy oil in USD because of the protection (well used too in a way) it affords against larger non-allied countries, pirates and other rogue states. Civilization and the military need oil; most importantly, the military. As long as oil is priced in USD, the US government can continuing printing dollars to pay for it and to maintain reserve currency status. If the oil agreement folds, the US can continue printing money, but the economy will suffer. This is one of the ways the US became so big so quickly.

The US looks like its suffering from Dutch Disease with its export being currency and not natural resources. Once the currency well dries up, banks will lose some power and the US will begin a multi-decade race to once again ramp up manufacturing (Made in America TM) to try to mitigate the loss. Problem with this will be that because of the eventual USD decoupling, it will be a race to the bottom.

This is where I believe Bitcoin comes in. SDRs under the guidance of the IMF are nothing new; essentially, a world currency basket to hedge currency volatility. Dump all your country's debt into an SDR and well, you know the rest.
633  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bold: Bitstamp Hack speculation on: January 06, 2015, 01:17:43 AM
Damn, it's a shame the instant I hear anything about hacking I think solvency issues...

Since these coins were primarily in their hot wallet, I wonder if this hack could be in part to mitigate some of the resulting loses from decreased buying pressure over the last few months (it's been a slow bleed)? Purely speculative:

"Lose" a large swath of coins from hot-wallet, buy previously inflated coins back at now lower price (recovering fiat losses). This supports the price and potentially mitigates their solvency problem because they are locked down in the short-term until they "figure it out."
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