Here's a straight forward example of Betcoin lying about an issue. Note - There is a freeroll involved , but I am not complaining about the fact they want to have freerolls. I am complaining that Betcoin blatantly lies to the players and allows cheaters to play.
It's a little concerning that you don't appear to have replied to any of his posts here. He seems to be raising valid concerns, but you leave them unanswered.
Did you really use 10 BTC confiscated from cheating players to fund a promotion instead of giving them back to the players they were stolen from? If so, how do you justify that?
Did you really allow those same cheating players to them play in the freeroll funded with the money they stole, after claiming to have zero tolerance for cheating? That sounds pretty crazy if it's true.
Hi Dooglus, it's because we did return most of the btc and we still ran a 10 btc freeroll to thank players for their support on top of returning funds. This was many months ago and was handled expediently. Ironically, most of the players were from a prop program which we no longer have, yet most of the players still play in. No we did not allow those players to play in the tournament but as you may know a bitcoin gaming website creates some unique challenges which we embrace. We have addressed all of this before and will happily address it again as we continue to move forward. Thanks guys! Jessica Read the bolded part above. Now read Betcoins response to the same question months ago on their own forum.  This is just a very small piece of the big picture. |
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Actually cryptosmoker there are a few people complaining about it. Just look above. I don't understand it either. Don't play in it if you don't like it. I actually didn't because I didn't want to compete against 900 people! They complain about 10 btc freerolls, about VIP programs and other benefits. I just don't get it either and realize that people will troll and when they do you just have to ignore them and move on because they will never move on.
No ftw, nobody is complaining about Betcoin having 10 btc freerolls. We're talking about all the things that, up till now, you and Betcoin.ag have completely ignored. Betcoin is trying to make us looks like a bunch of bitchy poker players by responding as if we are simply complaining about freerolls. If you don't get whats going on, I'd be happy to speak with you on the phone, over skype, private chat whatever and answer all questions. But I dont see the point in doing it here if you are just not going to read it. |
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Please note-- Multi-accounting is strictly prohibited. If there are 2 people using Betcoin in your household, please have a good explanation and proof. Support will understand, otherwise it is strictly monitored and prohibited.
If by strict you mean they will make you choose which account you want to keep and close the rest....then yes, strict. Just ask Freshstart/WhiteGirlWasted/NathanFund or TrillMyWatch/WTFBITCOINS?/6God or michigan1 or ON OFF/xxxFLIPxxx |
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My last comment as now this is officially a waste of time. I have never received a gift from Betcoin. I play there for fun and I enjoy the community. If I wasn't having fun or enjoying the community I simply wouldn't play there. To spend this much time doing what you are doing when hundreds of people play there everyday clearly shows something personal and I can clearly see why they ignore you.
As for darkdays, my last comment is I don't need to read your posts to know where I have fun when playing online and clearly nobody else needs to read your post because they too enjoy the community almost everyday.
I tried to help you out. Good luck on your achieving your goals.
You have fun playing at Betcoin. They have good promos. You are aware of the evidence demonstrating their lack of ethics and willingness to blatantly lie to all of us, but don't think it matters. You will continue to encourage others to play there - because when you play there, you have fun. If they were to ever treat you poorly or unfairly you would simply leave, because trying to actually do something about it (while others still have fun there) would be a waste of time. Got it. |
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You seem to be ignoring most of my direct questions. Even the ones you answer make me suspicious because of your wording. I asked Have you ever received a gift from Betcoin for your support on this forum? I have not been paid but that would be nice... I tried to join their signature campaign to get paid... if you are referring to the Betcoin.ag forum they are running a business and in my mind would be expected to delete posts otherwise it would be a spam fest.
Regarding that post, it doesn't come up but a list of players online does and the player that wrote this is logged in which is interesting. I guess he isn't done. Betcoin doesn't delete spam unless it's highly offensive (N word over and over, genitalia pictures, etc.) Here's the post I tried to link, it's not spam: done with bitcoin yet again. by hec4mu on November 22nd, 2015 0 Comments 0 Shares Tweets +1 PROBLEMS AFTER PROBLEMS. no response to support tickets, delayed response, or retarded customer service agents aka betcoin william/brent. After many issues with the poker side of things (server disconnects (on many days/occassions) and having to waste my own time contacting support and having to describe what happened and dealing with the smartest customer service agents in the bussiness) I gave the sportsbook a go. But before I get to that, whenever a server problem happens on any other poker site, the site will automatically refund players, here you have to go through the hassle of wasting your time and trying to get a response from support. If you ever do get a response it's usually like talking to a brick wall (william/brent). First thing Brent said was that that the server was never affected when clearly people were being blinded out and everyone in "player chat" was complaining about the tables and dice. Now onto the sportsbook. I made a bet of 142.2 chips early morning couple days ago, the chips were deducted from account but the slip was never posted under "uncleared bets". Looked under wallet "transactions" and cleary was there as "pending." Explained this in player chat and someone else had said that they had experienced the same thing the previous night and when asked if it was solved he said he was waiting for support. Now at this moment I head to the support section and when I tried to click on the "24/7 live chat", it was unclickable and down. False advertising unless there happen to be more than 24 hours in a day and more than 7 days in a week. Couple hours later I saw betcoin maria on the bottom of the page and flagged for her in chat. She asked for my support ticket number and said she would pass it on. Minutes later betcoin william appears and responds to my ticket. Now I'm just going to copy and paste the rest of my support ticket. I actually have live games to watch right now as I'm writing this. And yes I blew up on William but i just lost my patience. I just made a sports bet for ~164 chips live bet and it disappeared. my coins are no longer there and the bet is not in the "uncleared section" please look into this for me! WTH Happened. LIve bet just kept loading loading loading. 15 COMMENTS hec4mu: update1 day 3 hours ago TID Time Details Status Actions 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am (10 min 15 sec ago) 142.20 debit (Sportsbook) ExtID: 146670 Bet_Type:_Winner_Map_2_Match:_Malaysia_Cup_Pick:_OG pending it was 142.2* found this in transactions but it still does not show in uncleared bets. 0 reply Betcoin William: I saw in chat this was20 hours 24 min ago I saw in chat this was handled for you? Correct? 0 reply hec4mu: no william it wasnt20 hours 22 min ago no william it wasnt 0 reply hec4mu: 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am 20 hours 18 min ago 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am (7 hours 9 min ago) 142.20 debit (Sportsbook) ExtID: 146670 Bet_Type:_Winner_Map_2_Match:_Malaysia_Cup_Pick:_OG pending The chips were deducted from my account and bet was never in my uncleared bets while it was live. But the chips were deducted so I check wallet under transaction and that's what I got. This is an update of the original but same thing 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am (7 hours 9 min ago) 142.20 debit (Sportsbook) ExtID: 146670 Bet_Type:_Winner_Map_2_Match:_Malaysia_Cup_Pick:_OG pending Also note that when I described my problem in chat someone else had said they had the same problem last night. 0 reply Betcoin William: Here is your pending wager: 20 hours 10 min ago Here is your pending wager: http://www.betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=116743Also: http://www.betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=116714You are not seeing it in your backend? 0 reply hec4mu: please william. 20 hours 6 min ago did you even check the amount or the time that it was made. please dont mess with this problem you are only making me even angrier for having to waste my time yet again for a mistake on betcoins end. please let someone that actually is competent enough to check the original date,time, amount, and bet made. Not just throwing out my last two recent bets I made. 0 reply hec4mu: ATTN EXPERT SUPERVISOR20 hours 5 min ago NEED SOMEONE THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO LOOK OVER THIS PROBLEM. 0 reply hec4mu: WHOEVER DECIDES TO LOOK AT THIS NEXT 20 hours 3 min ago AT LEAST LOOK IN MY WALLET TRANSACTION AND LOOK UP WHAT I POSTED TID Time Details Status Actions 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am (10 min 15 sec ago) 142.20 debit (Sportsbook) ExtID: 146670 Bet_Type:_Winner_Map_2_Match:_Malaysia_Cup_Pick:_OG pending 0 reply hec4mu: BET IS SITTING THERE IN MY 20 hours 24 sec ago BET IS SITTING THERE IN MY "TRANSACTIONS" UNDER MY "WALLET" AS A PENDING BET THAT WAS NEVER PAID FOR. JUST LOOK IT UP PLEASE. YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN. 0 reply Betcoin William: Please check this transaction19 hours 22 min ago Please check this transaction again and was a declined wager: http://www.betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=116174Please confirm the accuracy. 0 reply hec4mu: NO WILLIAM19 hours 17 min ago TID Time Details Status Actions 6769152 11/21/2015 10:27am (10 min 15 sec ago) 142.20 debit (Sportsbook) ExtID: 146670 Bet_Type:_Winner_Map_2_Match:_Malaysia_Cup_Pick:_OG pending LOOK AT THE TICKET NUMBER. IT'S NOT EVEN THE SAME TICKET NUMBER. WHAT DID I SAY WILLIAM. ALL YOU'RE DOING IS MAKING THIS SITUATION A LOT WORSE. NOT ONLY ARE YOU MAKING ME GO OUT OF MY WAY AND MAKING ME REPEAT MYSELF TO SOMETHING AS COMMON SENSE AS CHECK THE SAME TICKET NUMBER AND BET MADE. NOW YOU JUST MANUALLY CHANGED IT FROM PENDING AND RETURNED MY 142.2 IN MY ACCOUNT. THAT IS NOT CORRECT. I WON MY BET. YOU NEED TO HONOR MY ORIGINAL BET. DONT TAMPER WITH THE ORGINAL BET. LIKE I SAID YOU JUST MANUALLY CHANGED ITRIGHT NOW. 0 reply Betcoin William: There are two ticket numbers19 hours 11 min ago There are two ticket numbers to every wager ExtID and the betslip #. This wager was declined because the odds had changed which you can see very clearly in the ticket. http://www.betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=116174The system should have refunded you immediately but it did not and we are looking into why. With that being stated, we have provided the win amount to you. Had this refunded you immediately which it should of then it would have been clearer. We are here anytime and are making sure this does not happen again because this wager was never accepted by the system. 0 reply hec4mu: BETCOIN WILLIAM LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL TRANSACTION AND THE ONE YOU18 hours 56 min ago POSTED. THEY ARE DIFFERENT TIMES. ENOUGH SAID. THE ONE YOU POSTED WAS ONE THAT WAS DECLINED EARLIER VIA THE TIME. YOU CHANGED MY TRANSACTION HISTORY 0 reply Betcoin William: hec4mu, we would not change15 hours 48 min ago hec4mu, we would not change your history and in fact that is impossible for any staff member or manager to do. You are being confused by the timezones. There is your timezone and the timezone on the ticket and website. The timezone on the ticket will not match your timezone unless you are in the UTC. This is confusing you clearly. Clearly time after time Betcoin william did not check and cross reference tickets to make sure they were the right one. Even in his last statement.... BUT NOW TODAY, THIS MORNING, I HAVE ANOTHER PROBLEM. SAME THINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG THIS TIME I SCREEN SHOT MY TRANSACTION HISTORY SO BETCOIN CANNOT BS AND FUCK WITH MY TRANSACTION LOG AND TRY TO MAKE IT INTO SOMETHING ELSE. BTW IF YOU HAVENT READ THE WHOLE THING I POSTED WILLIAM JUST REFUNDED MY ORIGINAL TICKET INSTEAD OF HONORING THE BET. IM IN A RUSH BECAUSE I HAVE TO GO BUT I WILL UPDATE OR ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FROM LEGIT BETCOIN STAFF. GOING TO PUT IN ANOTHER USELESS SUPPORT TICKET FOR MY CHIPS TODAY. BUT AFTER TODAY I JUST DONT FEEL LIKE I CAN TRUST MY MONEY ON BETCOIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SLIP THAT WAS CHANGED IT CLEARLY NOW SAYS "COMPLETE" "REFUNDED" AFTER BETCOIN WILLIAM TAMPERED WITH IT. Filed under: General 0 Please answer, what is your goal and why not work it out? Your posts indicate a personal issue that you should just work out and move on from. My goal is to hold Betcoin accountable for their actions. I think allowing their behavior to be considered acceptable could result in a lot of future damage to Bitcoin and Online Poker as a whole. Stop telling me I should work this out with them privately. I tried. They lied to me a few times and for the last month+ they have completely ignored me in every way other than the occasional insult. You would know that already if you had read what you decided to respond to. If you want to continue discussing these issues, please go back and read my posts from the past couple weeks. If you dont want to because they are long and boring, it's fine. But defending without even trying to understand both sides is just irresponsible. |
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@FTW do you agree with my answer here? Or do you still think it was ok for Betcoin to use the money they shouldn't have taken to fund a jackpot?
What should happen to the funds that Betcoin accidentally took from players?
Use the money to fund a jackpot which could be won by anyone in the future?
or
Return the funds to the players they took them from.
Answer:
These funds do not belong to them so doing anything other than returning them would be unethical.
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I wish I could get paid to post, but I don't have the seniority here at Bitcointalk yet. I will soon. I just enjoy playing on the site and the community for a wide variety of reasons and see many new people each day enjoying their experiences. I guess it would make sense that not everyone could be happy. I have noticed you also try to attack anybody that posts by stating they get paid to post which I find funny. I personally hate to see people waste time, but I guess the same could be said about me responding to you though I don't nearly spend as much time as you.
I actually remember when the bbj started at just over 1 btc, then there was talk about taking the bbj funds when it built up to over 10 and using that for a freeroll, but that never happened. They did both.
What is your goal with all of this? What is your player name on Betcoin?
Have you ever received a gift from Betcoin for your support on this forum? I have. Players are often rewarded for posting about how much they love Betcoin. If a player posts about being unhappy with Betcoin, they simply delete it. Here is an example from 2 days ago, someone was very upset and put a lot of effort into explaining why: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XmzsDuk3DQgJ:https://www.betcoin.ag/done-bitcoin-yet-again+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=usTry to view original post: https://www.betcoin.ag/done-bitcoin-yet-againI am OHYEAH and TwitchySeal on betcoin. Or at least I was - I am banned now without explanation, but I think it's safe to assume the reasons are obvious. Who are you? I'm not trying to attack you, I'm trying to figure out why the only posts you have ever made in almost 1.5 years are to praise Betcoin. |
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You clearly have some sort of personal issue with Betcoin Poker and it would have been in your best interest to solve it directly with them. I am not sure what level you played at but I see some pretty big action there everyday and each of those players comes back daily without complaints. I really can't believe you waste all the time you do, but will say I believe that Betcoin.ag's VIP program is far and above any I have ever experienced and they have real poker, a good sportsbook, the best casino and dice all combined in one experience. I still sometimes use Nitrogen for sports, but that is more rare now that there have been no issues with Betcoin Sports. I actually find it ironic that your complaints are about the VIP program that is superior to any other sites from my experience.
Edit: They give out up to 200% in rakeback in some instances as what I have read and held a 10 btc freeroll and still have the bbj that was supposed to fund that and Betcoin is dishonest? I wish more poker sites were dishonest in your view because I really do miss those 10 btc freerolls!
Contact them directly and solve your personal issue. They are very good about taking care of their players.
Read the posts I've made. It seems like you are making assumptions by simply looking at them instead of reading the words within them. Your advice on contacting them directly is laughable considering the details I've shared. I see you have read some of what I wrote regarding the BBJP, so I will respond: Edit: They give out up to 200% in rakeback in some instances as what I have read and held a 10 btc freeroll and still have the bbj that was supposed to fund that and Betcoin is dishonest? I wish more poker sites were dishonest in your view because I really do miss those 10 btc freerolls!
When there is a jackpot drop that is taken in addition to the standard rake, it's the same as a player making a small bet before each hand that they will win the BBJP.Before August 3rd, 2015: Betcoin collected well over 10 BTC in cash games, .01 mbtc at a time Betcoin told players nothing extra was being collected and that there was no BBJP, and the ticker would be removed soon The chances of winning the jackpot were 0% (there was no BBJP) What should happen to the funds that Betcoin accidentally took from players?Use the money to fund a jackpot which could be won by anyone in the future? or Return the funds to the players they took them from. Answer:
These funds do not belong to them so doing anything other than returning them would be unethical. Also, could you please answer my earlier question? Your first post was not endorsing Betcoin, but was a response to qualify for a Betcoin promotion.
Every other post you've made since June 2014 has been to compliment Betcoin, or defend them against criticism.
Would you mind disclosing the motivation behind all these posts? Have you received anything for making them? If so how much? |
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Just want to remind anyone who made it this far- I didn't make this post just to prove I got screwed out of some rake back (although I wouldn't blame you for assuming so). I made it because I want everyone to look at the way Betcoin handled this issue and compare it to some of the other issues I've brought up; like the BBJP issue, the No Collusion Freeroll - how they handle cheaters in general, even how they have behaved in this very thread....if a casino as dishonest and non-transparent (opaq?) as Betcoin is able to grow and succeed long term - it will lower the standards of future businesses within the industry. Unregulated doesn't mean unaccountable.
I'd be happy to discuss anything I've posted in any way shape or form. It's tough trying to say everything I want to but avoid wall of text boringness that nobody will do more than glance at...
I've been trying to keep up with all that you've been trying to point out. Some of it is very complicated, some of it can be contributed to the sites "growing pains," and some of it is probably just frustration. This is what I know: when I satellite into WPN tournaments on the MAIN network skins, I do get a rakeback--even if I satellite into them via freerolls. However, here's the problem: the Winning Poker Network has a very complicated structure within in it's own network. On their main skins, their fees are distributed differently...they spend quite a bit of their revenue sponsoring their big tournaments and promoting the network. This is where it gets complicated: Betcoin is in the WPN hierarchy in a very different manner than the main skins. Betcoin's players have the advantage of playing in the Winning Poker Networks pool of players, but the fees generated from those tournaments are controlled by the WPN for allowing us access to play in their pool. So, the distribution of fees and the way they are calculated and distributed in terms of rakeback gets convoluted. Each new skin in the WPN negotiates its own contract, sorta speak, so there's a very confusing hierarchy among the several skins. I understand your frustration completely....rakeback is a big concern to any serious player in regards to calculating their ROI and managing their bankroll. However, having the advantage of playing in a player pool which is consistently dropping huge overlays in their tournaments is worth that confusion when calculating the value of your buy ins. It's a trade off....see. When we pay $540 to get into a tournament that has a $200,000 overlay, we are getting an extreme bargain! Anyway, Betcoin is very generous with the funds they receive from the fees generated from their own player pool. Just do some quick calculations and consider the overlay that's dropped daily in Betcoin's exclusive tournaments....that's value! Yes, you have some very valid and serious concerns. I just think that you're not considering the complicated relationships that exists between the several different skins and the network. The aspect that makes Betcoin unique among all the skins is that it has two distinct pools of players (advantageous to us) which complicates matters in many ways and some answers are too complicated to state simply. Think about that some.... TIP: When you're deciding what network skin to play which specific tournament....take into account the complications mentioned above and play on the skin that will give you the best value. I really do understand and sympathize with Betcoins issues. To be clear: I am not accusing them of intentionally scamming players by paying less rake back than advertised.Each of the major issues I have brought up so far (BBJP, Rakeback etc) began as an honest mistake. The type of mistake that is to be expected from any relatively new site and even some established sites. This may be way it seems on the surface that I am just bitching to bitch like so many other poker players do. But when you look at the way Betcoin.ag has reacted to each of these issues it reveals a problem that is much greater than the sum of all these "normal" issues. Betcoin.ag is a dishonest site. If anyone out there understands what I'm trying to say but thinks they could phrase is better, please do. |
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You should all play where you enjoy playing. Quite frankly, looking at the time some of you spend on here if you put that into something productive you could actually provide some type of value. I enjoy my experience on Betcoin and get nearly 150% rakeback on my play. There is no other website online offering this for poker play right now. I also play on ACR if there is an issue with Betcoin but the value is far less where I get about 33% rakeback. Also, I get the same amount of rakeback from tourneys on ACR as I do on Betcoin so the value for Betcoin combined with the community and the other activities, sportsbook, dice, and casino makes it the best place for me to play. I see hundreds of people playing at Betcoin everyday and only the same 3 people complaining. Why not just focus your time and play somewhere else?
Ftwbtc, who are you? Like Betcoin Andrew - you question why I'm still playing at betcoin.ag and suggest playing somewhere else. This confuses me because I've made it pretty clear I do play on several other sites. It's been over a month since my last session included Betcoin. They have also banned my account and IP. I explain in detail that I have been underpaid rakeback and went through hell trying to get it fixed. Your response: I enjoy my experience on Betcoin and get nearly 150% rakeback on my play. There is no other website online offering this for poker play right now... I've shown evidence of them using their community as a way to manipulate the way outsiders perceive them in a dishonest way. Some of the most well know scammers from the online poker and Bitcoin communities call Betcoin.ag home since their scams are tolerated at Betcoin and they have been banned everywhere else. (Example: marcchernandez has had multiple front page articles on his slot jackpots - he used these articles to scam several Betcoin players) the value for Betcoin combined with the community and the other activities, sportsbook, dice, and casino makes it the best place for me to play. When I go to look at your post history, I see you've signed up for account in June 2014 and made 41 posts since. Your first post was not endorsing Betcoin, but was a response to qualify for a Betcoin promotion.
Every other post you've made since June 2014 has been to compliment Betcoin, or defend them against criticism. Would you mind disclosing the motivation behind all these posts? Have you received anything for making them? If so how much? |
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The way Betcoin dealt with my missing rakeback and status points was the hair that broke the camels back for me. I opened the ticket on Sept 1st, but had a feeling I wasn't receiving the the full vip rewards for several weeks. It's just one of those things that's too easy to put off till tomorrow... A few days later I got first response, informing me that there were no issues and I was getting paid appropriately. Betcoin William
OHYEAH, we have confirmed that your getting points for the tournaments you play and your account is accurate. [/color] After a few more sessions and confirming I was definitely missing a big chunk of both Status Points and Rake-back Andrew responded assuring me again that everything was right. Betcoin Andrew
We welcome you to crunch numbers because we are absolutely certain your VIP numbers are correct. The payouts are done when the tournament finishes and not on the day it starts you should note and tickets do not count towards it. What day in particular are you referring to so that I can show you that it is working properly. There have been a few players that come in here making these claims and then we take the time to show them very clearly that everything is accurate. We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all. [/color] When Andrew said "ticket do not count towards it" I had to assume he meant if you won a sattellite into a tournament you wouldn't receive any benefits based on the target tournaments entry fee. Even though you won the value of the entry + fee. "We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all" - I heard from them all the time, and so does he. - I know at least a few of them complained in the past and were compensated whatever they thought they were missing at the time. I had already made it clear that I didn't want some ammount of bitcoin they pulled out of the air. I wanted what I was promised, and I wanted them to give everyone else what they promised - even the guys that didn't complain. I also wanted them to fix it so we wouldn't have to do this all over again.I think that Betcoin thought they might be doing something wrong - but weren't sure - so they just hid from me until they figured out what their next move was. In the mean time I stopped playing at betcoin almost completely. Sunday October 11th I decided to use betcoin as my WPN skin for the day and prepared to buyin directly to every tournament prior to playing any sattys. (Sundays are the by far the biggest day for online mtts, I usually 9-12 table across 3 different sites and and my average buyin is almost 4x bigger than the rest of week average, 35-45% of the tournaments I reg on a sunday are satellites) During that session I played the following tournaments on Betcoin, all of which I registered directly entered/re-entered: $500+40, $135+5(x3),$80+8, $40+4, $30+3, $20+2 and $10+1 (x4) That's a total of $76 in fees which converted to ~ 306 chips at the time (1 chip = 1 mbtc) According to their terms - I should receive 1,530 Status points My VIP level is Silver 1 so I am entitled to 26.6% rake back = 81.3 chips which should be given in the form of around 5,300 betcoin points. I ended up receiving less than 2000 betoin points over the next two mornings. I was also shorted by a similar margin with the status points - I don't have the proof for the total status points I received during that period because they have since disabled my account. October 13th Betcoin decided to clarify the whole "rakeback from tournaments you were registered for through satty" policy: For clarity, players receive VIP points when you use your bitcoin to buy into a satellite tournament based on the fees you pay. You do not receive VIP points on the tournament that you are entered into once you win the seat. The entire point of a satellite is to provide you greater value and the WPN distinguishes the buyins on the data Betcoin receives as a satellite that real bitcoin was used to buy into vs a tournament that a player won a seat or used a ticket to get into.
[/color] I doubt they even knew this was how their system had been working this way all along until they realized they they would have to deal with me some way other than simply ignoring me. I still think this is a really stupid policy - but I'm going to stop myself from dwelling on how illogical it is to have such a policy without an apologetic explanation involving technical issues.
I immediately let them know that this only answered for SOME of the rake back I thought I was owed - not ALL.I provided screen shots, I bumped ticket, I asked them about it in chat, private chat, I made threads... Since mid October they have treated me the same way you see them treating me here in this thread - other than an occasional passive aggressive insult, they refuse to acknowledge my existence or anything I say. My shark scope showing the non satellite tournaments I played which were completed on 10/11http://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/WPN/players/twitchysealRakeback received early morning 10/12 Deleted thread Betcoin deleted from their forums (mostly regs discussing the fact that rake back is wrong every time they independently check it, but even when faced with math Betcoin won't budge from their "rakeback is right, you are wrong" stance):http://snag.gy/q0PmI.jpg After blantantly ignoring me for nearly two weeks, Andrew offers the following: Obviously I got ignored after bumping ticket.Just want to remind anyone who made it this far- I didn't make this post just to prove I got screwed out of some rake back (although I wouldn't blame you for assuming so). I made it because I want everyone to look at the way Betcoin handled this issue and compare it to some of the other issues I've brought up; like the BBJP issue, the No Collusion Freeroll - how they handle cheaters in general, even how they have behaved in this very thread....if a casino as dishonest and non-transparent (opaq?) as Betcoin is able to grow and succeed long term - it will lower the standards of future businesses within the industry. Unregulated doesn't mean unaccountable. I'd be happy to discuss anything I've posted in any way shape or form. It's tough trying to say everything I want to but avoid wall of text boringness that nobody will do more than glance at... |
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Hey Betcoin, Thought I should let you know that when you ban a players IP and disable their account, they're still able to log in with the poker client, access funds in their poker balance, register and play tournaments etc...They just cant access the website. Any explanation by the way on the sudden change from As for TwitchySeal we just appreciate the passion and keeping us at the top of the bitcointalk thread because it's helping to drive some new players through! to The owner of this website (poker.betcoin.ag) has banned your IP Remember, best not to reply at all than to reply with a lie (like last time)  |
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I encourage all Betcoin players that play this Bitcoin talk tournament to read the last few pages of this thread.
Betcoin.ag has made what may have been honest mistakes initially and attempted to resolve them in unethical ways. They have been dishonest to their players on a consistent basis. They refuse to fix or even acknowledge what they have done and give no reason to believe they will behave any differently in the future.
Between the evidence posted and Betcoins reaction I don't see how any other conclusion can be made.
If the Poker and Bitcoin communities tolerate this kind of behavior it will become even more common
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We ran a 10 btc freeroll and we still have the bad beat jackpot funded with now over 18 btc!
The reason it's over 18 BTC is because you "unintentionally" took most of it from your players and decided not to give it back. All funds collected for the BBJP prior to Aug 3rd should be distributed back to the players who funded it as fairly as possible. Ethics 101 really. Also don't want this blatant lie to get buried: |
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Dooglus, Ranlo or anyone. Please ask Betcoin.ag to comment on anything you find interesting in the following.
I'm pretty new to the site, but it seems obvious to me that the bad beat jackpot pool is to be used for funding the bad beat jackpot, and nothing else. Using it to fund freerolls is just wrong. It was contributed mostly by high rollers (the site's most valuable asset) and shouldn't be given away to the hundreds of random new users that freerolls attract. I think it's actually more likely that most of the jackpot pool was contributed by low-midstakes grinders. I know of a handful that were approaching geting close to 500k hands as of mid summer. While higher stakes players certainly pay more rake per hand, its not directly related to the stakes. A 100NL player may be averaging 6 or 7 chips in rake/100 hands and be able to consistantly play 9-12 tables while a 1000NL player could be averaging 18-20 chips/100 hands but rarely get any action at more than 2 or 3 tables. This is all besides the point though. It's a breath of fresh air having you here, I was hoping you'd make it through some of my walls of text tbh, thanks for responding. |
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Hi Dooglus, it's because we did return most of the btc and we still ran a 10 btc freeroll to thank players for their support on top of returning funds. This was many months ago and was handled expediently. Ironically, most of the players were from a prop program which we no longer have, yet most of the players still play in.
Hi Jessica, No you didn't. But even if you did return "most" of the funds, that's not ok. It wasn't your money, you should of returned all of it. Their accounts have been banned and even though neither player has ever made a deposit we are allowing them to keep a small portion of the funds.
The remainder and majority of the funds will be dispersed to players that were cheated and used to host a 10 btc freeroll next Sunday February 15, 2015 |
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I am absolutely certain that from March 2015 till August 3rd, 2015 (perhaps someone whos been around longer could verify the timeframe) that there were no terms for the badbeat jackpot. Support refused to address the situation publicly, and privately they told several players (including myself) that even though there was a ticker in the lobby that kept increasing, and the hand histories were showing a fee for "BBJP 0.01", they were not - in fact - collecting an extra 0.01 per hand. (I dont have evidence of support claiming they weren't collecting a fee - if anyone does PLEASE share it. Betcoin will likely lie, please help me hold them accountable. You can remain anonymous if you like, pm dooglus or anyone you trust if you don't feel comfortable sending it to me)Naturally I did the simple math and explained they were mistaken. They ignored me. (standard) And I just kept asking them over and over - louder and louder (standard). Here's an example hand from May. ($1 = 1 mbtc) The final pot ends up being $81.60 pre rake and BBJP. The rake is capped at $2 and $0.01 is deducted for BBJP Winner received $79.59 Winning Poker Network Game #6091979: No Limit Holdem ($0.50/$1) [2015/05/31 08:15:44 UTC]
Table: Tokyo - 2
Seats: 9
Seat 1: SexyTime ($111.50)
Seat 2: Gunt ($91.16)
Seat 3: Benjamin.Li ($116.50)
Seat 4: lonewolf ($212.04)
Seat 5: raccoon ($139.92)
Seat 6: standarr ($52.79)
Seat 7: spike420211 ($361.92)
Seat 8: DrBlakeDowns ($206.33)
Seat 9: OHYEAH ($80.28)
Button is seat 4
raccoon: posts small blind $0.50
standarr: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
OHYEAH: dealt [Js Ac]
spike420211: raises $2
DrBlakeDowns: folds
OHYEAH: raises $7
SexyTime: folds
Gunt: folds
Benjamin.Li: folds
lonewolf: folds
raccoon: folds
standarr: folds
spike420211: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jc 3s] (Pot = 15.50)
spike420211: bets $16.98
OHYEAH: calls $16.98
*** TURN *** [Qc Jc 3s] [7h] (Pot = 49.46)
spike420211: bets $16.07
OHYEAH: calls $16.07
*** RIVER *** [Qc Jc 3s] [7h] [8c] (Pot = 81.60)
spike420211: checks
OHYEAH: checks
OHYEAH: mucks
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $79.59 | Rake: $2 | BBJ: $0.01 | ($79.59 + $2 + $0.01 = $81.60)
Board: [Qc Jc 3s 7h 8c]
Seat 1: SexyTime didn't bet
Seat 2: Gunt didn't bet
Seat 3: Benjamin.Li didn't bet
Seat 4: lonewolf didn't bet
Seat 5: raccoon lost -$0.50
Seat 6: standarr lost -$1
Seat 7: spike420211 won $79.59 (+$39.54) [Qh Ts] One Pair, Queens
Seat 8: DrBlakeDowns didn't bet
Seat 9: OHYEAH lost -$40.05 [Js Ac] One Pair, Jacks By July I think they realized that something had to be done. Their solution:  - This 10 BTC freeroll was open to ANYONE. - Betcoin was claiming to fund it with the Bad Beat Jackpot - I'd estimate there are 20-30 regulars who contributed over 75% of the jackpot. The whole time haveing a 0% chance at winning it. - There ended up being over 1000 players in the freeroll which ended up a disaster on its own due to them having rebuys for actual chips. (not getting into that now) - I can't help but speculate a very large chunk of the 10 BTC prize pool ended up getting seized due to multi account abuse. There was 60 minutes of late registration, unless they have changed anything, I don't think you even have to verify your email to create a new account. Fill this form out and boom, you're back in:  It's almost as if they were begging players to come and multi account this thing. In my opinion, they really thought this freeroll would solve their BBJP problem. They never even considered that every satoshi that had been collected DID NOT BELONG TO THEM AND THEY SHOULD RETURN IT TO THE SAME PLAYERS. I ended up bitching even louder, and getting some attention at least. They decided to change plans. NEW PLAN, POST BBJP FREEROLL: The day after the freeroll they threw up some terms on the website and acted as if they had been there all along. How did they get away with all this? They just ignored the hard questions - rewarded players for spreading good things about them in the forums, and eventually everyone just kind of forgot about it. Same as all the other issues. Additional evidence:official announcement: https://www.betcoin.ag/10-btc-gtd-pre-millions-freeroll-betcoin-pokerThe prizepool of the 10 BTC freeroll is being funded by the Bad Beat Jackpot which will remain on the website until the client is updated. Screen shot of part of deleted thread. Betcoin Paul justifying the BBJP freeroll, shaming a player for complaining (zzzz who disliked his comment is also moderator) and then claiming that the whole thing was a huge success just to rub our face in it. https://i.gyazo.com/7777f5fb51a7db3861b5b94c6d0724b5.jpgFrom Original announcement: The prizepool of the 10 BTC freeroll is being funded by the Bad Beat Jackpot which will remain on the website until the client is updated. Support claiming there actually has been a way to win the jackpot- they just disappeared and didn't know what they were, but they will be back soon. (Translation, we're just going to pretend nothing happened and there's nothing you can do about it.)  Terms for Bad Beat jackpot as of August 3rd (they don't make sense) https://www.betcoin.ag/support/what-are-rules-bad-beat-jackpotif anyone is not familiar with BBJPs - here's an example of what you would expect when someone who understands poker and knows how to write clear and complete terms and conditions: http://www.theborgata.com/assets/webpage/PLAY/badbeat/index.htmlMissing from Betcoin BBJP Terms: - How is the jackpot distributed? Usually the loser gets the biggest share, the winner a little less, and either everyone else at the tabl, or everyone else currently playing on the site divides up a portion, and the final portion is used to reseed. The full rules for the bad beat jackpot are below and you need to follow the rules precisely to be eligible for the Jackpot. You must 1) play Hold’em at a Bad Beat Jackpot table and 2) lose a hand containing 4 “Jacks” (or better)
Please remember: the last cards in both your and your opponent’s hand should play – this is a mandatory condition.
- What happens when the BBJP is dealt. Contact support? Are the funds added automatically? Is there a waiting Period? - What does this table mean?  - Fee is "10" for 5/10+ ? 10 what? 10%? 10 chips? Per hand? Who gets the jackpot share? My point is, the terms are crap and obviously thrown together at the last second. |
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While i was online, a new moderator was promoted and when i asked him what's the meaning of flamming, he said "Flamming is non-answerable".
lightlord demoted him suddenly, good choice.
He was probably just being polite. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flammingDid you mean flaming? |
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Just a quick question Xiao:
I created my betcoin account long ago referred from a "website" offering reserved tourneys and a rake leaderboard and other noce promos.
Unfortunately this site recently ended offering their services and I was wondering if I might become an affiliate of yours in some way.
Do you think there's a way to work this out?
Ive heard that chazley might be willing to release his signups, worth a shot to ask. Gotta coordinate with support and GaB I think though. |
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