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681  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Multisig, probability to lose coins? on: September 15, 2023, 06:37:59 PM
PL2K = P1P2 + P2P3 + P1P3 + P1P2P3 - 3P1P2P3 = P1P2 + P2P3 + P1P3 - 2P1P2P3

This is correct, and is analogous to the equation I shared above:

P(A).P(B).P(C') + P(A).P(B').P(C) + P(A').P(B).P(C) + P(A).P(B).P(C)

Your equation works out the three intersects of A ⋂ B, A ⋂ C, and B ⋂ C, and the subtracts the middle intersect of A ⋂ B ⋂ C twice since you have included it three times.
My equation works out the intersects while excluding the middle intersect each time, and then adds the middle intersect back in at the end.

Either way, you will end up with the same result.
682  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Multisig, probability to lose coins? on: September 15, 2023, 04:01:51 PM
This is wrong.

If you want to calculate the probability of losing access to a 2-of-3 multi-sig, then you need to work out the sum of the probabilities of losing any two keys and the probability of losing all three keys. The formula you are looking for is as follows:

P(A).P(B).P(C') + P(A).P(B').P(C) + P(A').P(B).P(C) + P(A).P(B).P(C)

This is the probability of losing A and B, plus the probability of losing A and C, plus the probability of losing B and C, plus the probability of losing all three.

The other way to calculate would be to add the probability of losing exactly one key to the probability of losing no keys, and then subtract that from 1:

1 - (P(A ⋂ B' ⋂ C') + P(A' ⋂ B ⋂ C') + P(A' ⋂ B' ⋂ C) + P(∅))

Where P(∅) = 1 - P(A ⋃ B ⋃ C)

BTW, what does tt /tt code stand for? Never saw it.
Teletype. It's a monospace font which is generally used when referring to small snippets of code, command line arguments, etc.
683  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Multisig, probability to lose coins? on: September 15, 2023, 09:51:58 AM
Let's call your keys A, B, and C.

Probability of losing A = P(A)
Probability of not losing A = P(A') = 1-P(A)

Probability of losing all three keys = P(A ⋂ B ⋂ C) = P(A).P(B).P(C)

Probability of losing exactly one key = P(A ⋂ B' ⋂ C') + P(A' ⋂ B ⋂ C') + P(A' ⋂ B' ⋂ C) = P(A).P(B').P(C') + P(A').P(B).P(C') + P(A').P(B').P(C)

Probability of losing one or more keys = P(A ⋃ B ⋃ C) = P(A) + P(B) + P(C) - P(A ⋂ B) - P(A ⋂ C) - P(B ⋂ C) + P(A ⋂ B ⋂ C)

Plug in your numbers as desired. If you are looking specifically for the probability of never losing a single key, then do 1 minus the last equation above.
684  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee. on: September 15, 2023, 07:52:57 AM
Personally, I exclude that it was done for laundering.
The transaction was broadcast publicly. It absolutely was not done for money laundering purposes.

I also didn't know what paypal is doing that is not good. can you please tell us what you are talking about paypal @o_e_l_e_o?
You can find thousands of examples of people having their accounts frozen and money seized while PayPal provide zero reasons why and also provide zero assistance. There was also the big issue recently where they changed their terms to allow them to confiscate users' money if those users said anything online that PayPal disagrees with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5416501.0



But anyway, the money has been refunded to Paxos: https://mempool.space/tx/1b9adb2878fce5cd1b6a11a011e3965f904829228d57cf90ca6731cd501890c6
685  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Interesting behaivor of TESTNET difficulty on: September 15, 2023, 07:38:37 AM
If someone wants test net coins for development purposes, why do they use the same test coins? They can fork and mine trillions of such coins.
They don't need to. If you want to test something on your own private network, then you can use the regression testing network locally to do so (regtest). Using regtest allows you to establish nodes and connections as you desire, generate blocks at will, and mine all the coins you ever want.

But if you want to test something on an external network which is more similar to mainnet, then you will want to use testnet or signet.
686  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee. on: September 14, 2023, 05:40:10 PM
F2Pool owner is now asking the community what they should do with the funds: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1702095123981738437#m

Given how much PayPal are more than happy to screw over regular people for literally no reason whatsoever, I have no strong feelings either way what happens here.

do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
No. You rely entirely on the good will of the mining pool operator, and they are under no obligation whatsoever to refund the fees.

or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner?
You can't, unless you can look at the address they received the block reward to and somehow track them down from that.

what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
You can't contact the police because the miner did not steal anything. They simply mined your transaction, the fee of which you chose. If you chose the wrong fee, then that's your fault.

do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?
Up to the pool operator, but generally yes.
687  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Interesting behaivor of TESTNET difficulty on: September 14, 2023, 10:23:27 AM
There is cap on how much it can rise (or fall) in each adjustment because if the time is smaller (or bigger) than a quarter of (or bigger than 4x) 2 weeks in seconds, it will fall down to default 302,400 (or 4,838,400) sec.
You can see this in action right now, with the difficulty increasing by a factor of 4 every 2016 blocks.

Block 2,477,664 - Difficulty 1
Block 2,479,680 - Difficulty 4
Block 2,481,696 - Difficulty 16
Block 2,483,712 - Difficulty 64
Block 2,485,728 - Difficulty 256
Block 2,487,744 - Difficulty 1,024
Block 2,489,760 - Difficulty 4,096
Block 2,491,776 - Difficulty 16,384
Block 2,493,792 - Difficulty 65,536
Block 2,495,808 - Difficulty 262,144

You can already see things slowing down. 4,096 to 16,384 took 21 minutes. The next epoch took 31 minutes. The next took took 1 hour 23 minutes. By the time we hit the next retargeting at block 2,497,824, it will have been somewhere around 3 hours. It will take a further 4 epochs after this one to return to the previous difficulty (provided the hashrate hasn't actually changed).
688  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Interesting behaivor of TESTNET difficulty on: September 14, 2023, 07:52:21 AM
The issue here is that the block of difficulty 1 after a 20 minute period was the last block in difficulty epoch.

Here is the point the issue began:

Block 2,477,662: https://mempool.space/testnet/block/00000000000000003c2717761354c34d5cdb12f5f247a1d7d0c5a8174e4b6a11
Difficulty: 147386757.8674816

Block 2,477,663: https://mempool.space/testnet/block/00000000000019477d9b273423ac45be472ac63d88616e5169efe9e3bdb03fb9
Difficulty: 1

As OP notes, what is supposed to happen is that after the block of difficulty 1, testnet should revert back to the previous difficulty. The issue here is that the block with difficulty 1 is the last block in a difficulty epoch (2,477,664/2016 = 1,229 exactly, remembering of course we start at block 0 and not at block 1).

The next difficulty epoch should adjust the difficulty based on the old difficulty of 147386757.8674816, but instead it mistakenly adjusts the difficulty based on the difficulty of the last block, which is 1. So the difficulty for the new epoch is set at 1.

Every block since then has been mined in seconds, and the difficulty is slowly adjusting back upwards to a normal value.
689  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Using Instant Exchange on: September 14, 2023, 06:53:23 AM
Using the instant exchange may not be a perfect way to hide your privacy but if we look at the OP point of view, he is only concerned with that ordinary people can't trace him.
Still depends. Many exchanges have their central wallets publicly identified. If someone knows that OP is using one of these exchanges to swap his bitcoin to litecoin, for example, then they can simply look for any litecoin transactions of the same value at the same time.

Blockchain analysis companies won't investigate unless they are hired by someone to trace anyone and in this case, OP have no concerns about it.
There are almost certainly blockchain analysis companies which passively scan all transactions and make any easy links or easy identifications they can. Far easier for them when they need to investigate some specific transactions to already have all the groundwork done already.
690  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ColorSEED Or how to simply hide your seed phrase on: September 14, 2023, 06:42:29 AM
First thing I thought was about Color Blind people (1 in 12 men are color blind, or about 8%) that simply don't see some colors, but even people with normal eyesight can interpret same color differently.
Seeing the colors is irrelevant. Even someone with perfect eyesight cannot pick out the difference between this color or this color or this color or this color, and yet all four have different hex codes and therefore would generate different seed phrases. The hex codes must be backed up, which is more difficult, more time consuming, and more error prone than just backing up a seed phrase in the first place.

Remember seed phrase with words is more easily and more memorable than remember color codes.
You shouldn't be remembering anything, hex codes or seed phrases. Relying only on your memory is risky and unsafe. Just write down your seed phrase on paper and store it somewhere safe, like every good wallet tells you to do.
691  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee. on: September 13, 2023, 07:43:27 PM
So, turns out it was PayPal which made this error: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/paypal-reportedly-overpaid-510750-in-the-largest-usd-bitcoin-transaction-fee-ever-

PayPal are blaming Paxos, and Paxos are releasing the usual boilerplate "Funds are safu" nonsense while reportedly contracting F2Pool to get their money back.

Just another data point to add the the hundreds of thousands of data points showing that no matter how big, how well know, how "reputable" any centralized exchange is, they cannot be trusted to use even basic security protocols.
692  Other / Off-topic / Re: Foxpup's Merit Cycling Club 🦊 🍾 🔞 Member Promotion Announcement [NSFW] on: September 13, 2023, 07:36:31 PM
4.5 years!? What a holestoric milestone! Truly monumenthole. Wonder if theymos will change my name to h_o_l_e_o in commemoration?

where are @o_e_l_e_o 
Oh, I've never left:

Ummm... I've been locked up for two weeks now and Foxxy's got the only key...

Help?
693  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: SPAM TX with 79 recipients and 860 Sat to each blocking my funds on: September 13, 2023, 01:06:04 PM
I've rewritten your transaction OP to remove the dust input, keep the payment output the same, and very slightly adjusted the fee so you can replace your currently unconfirmed transaction:

Code:
0100000001192aabd987ff508dfda0e10448bfcb1b2cc7281d5b4fa8f77208d13543965c62010000001f144a0ee83923483d4aa9a38b2e5f4ad6650728a72600081b889b0600000000fdffffff0280778e060000000017a914e7a88359fe98b9774a2d6cdbecfb81090ff29c6c8743f50c00000000001976a9144a0ee83923483d4aa9a38b2e5f4ad6650728a72688ac00000000

If you can sign this and broadcast it to a node which accepts full RBF replacements, then it should replace your other transaction and be confirmed fairly quickly. You can do this easily with Electrum if you are able to import your wallet to Electrum using either your seed phrase or a private key for that address. You should do this on an airgapped device for security reasons.

Otherwise, at the effective fee rate of ~7.5 sats/vbyte, you are going to be waiting weeks for a confirmation.

It's nearing the bottom of mempools with default size setting.
The parent transaction with a fee rate of 6 sats/vbyte will already have been dropped by default nodes, meaning OP's transaction will have been dropped as well. There are however an increasing number of nodes using non-default mempool settings, which is why we can still see OP's transaction on most block explorers and he can still see it in his wallet.
694  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain Analytics is More of an Art Than Science on: September 13, 2023, 12:34:02 PM
Chain analysis companies are getting funded with millions of dollars from the US government, so it isn't just Wasabi's and centralized exchanges' fault here. But, sure, if half of the Bitcoin userbase stopped using Binance and switched to self-custody, they'd start panicking.
Sure. There will always be a government owned blockchain analysis company trying to spy on you. But if you cut off a huge amount of the data they get fed from the likes of centralized exchanges providing your KYC data and wallet addresses, payment processors like BitPay sharing details of your spending habits, closed source wallets which depend on their own servers sharing your wallet addresses, and so on, their bullshit "analyses" would be even more provably bullshit.

If some random account showed up to this forum and said "Hey, I've figured out a way to track bitcoin transactions, send me any address and 100,000 sats and I'll tell you who owns it!" while refusing to provide any technical details or let anyone see their code, they would rightly be called a scammer and rapidly be tagged with a newbie warning flag. But somehow if you show up to the US government and say the same thing they give you a multi-million dollar contract. Roll Eyes
695  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: [100 dots] seed phrase backup on: September 13, 2023, 12:15:30 PM
Sure, it would take some time to make 100 holes but the advantages of them over depressions on the plate surface are obvious for all  potential cases when such encrypted plate could be used.
The disadvantage being your plate no longer has a blank rear side, so cannot be bolted on to something "face down" to make it appear like any other metal bracket or joint.

I'm also not convinced that trying to line up your plate with a printed template and line up a powerful enough light with each hole to get a clear point projected on the template in the right place is going to be any easier than just doing as Loyce has suggested.
696  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain Analytics is More of an Art Than Science on: September 13, 2023, 12:06:48 PM
Sometimes they are so concerned about data mining that they forget that innocent people can also face tough times
They don't forget - they simply don't care.

The government don't care in the slightest when banks launder literally trillions of dollars. They get a completely meaningless token fine and that's it. No arrests, no criminal charges, no seizures, no shutdowns, and allowed to continue to launder more money in the future. This is all fine because the banks bribe our politicians and freely hand over all your data to the government when they want it. But when a piece of open source code allows the average person to maintain some semblance of privacy against the government's various mass surveillance programs, then all hell breaks loose and they absolutely must prosecute someone. They don't actually care if the people they prosecute are actually guilty, as long as the set an example to the rest of us that you should be good little citizens and never step out of line. This is not about preventing money laundering in the slightest - if it was, they would clamp down on the banks which do it constantly. It's about surveilling and controlling the populace.

But these aren't very realistic outcomes in real life. If Chainalysis were to fold tomorrow, you can bet there'd be at least a handful of similar entities vying for their old contracts & market share.
Absolutely. We already have dozens of blockchain analysis companies out there. My point was that if everyone who used bitcoin stopped using things like centralized exchanges or wallets like Wasabi or Trezor which all directly fund these blockchain analysis companies, then that would cut off a large part of their funding and many would cease to exist (not to mention making general blockchain analysis much more difficult since you would no longer have KYC linked addresses and such).

The code should absolutely be auditable... I agree with the overall sentiment in this thread that its ridiculous to put someone behind bars for what is potentially a very long time without thorough "due process." If Sterlingov was indeed just a user of Bitcoin Fog then it would be an egregious miscarriage of justice to sentence him based on potentially faulty analysis.
It's pretty damning just how desperate Chainalysis are to not let anyone who even remotely understands bitcoin view their code.
697  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: [100 dots] seed phrase backup on: September 12, 2023, 07:05:34 PM
Excellent suggestions in theory, but a hammer and a punch aren't the most precise implements, and from experience I can tell you that attempting to punch centering holes in close proximity to one another is nearly impossible without making a mess of things.
Depends on your tools, I suppose. Lopp managed it: https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/reviews/bitplate/ Tongue

I'm now thinking it can be the furniture.
Buy 20 such plates. Use one to stamp your seed phrase. Then use all 20 in a building project, such as to join two pieces of wood together, with the seed phrase obviously pointing inwards so it appears no different to any of the others. Or go in to your roof/cellar/foundations/crawl space/floorboards/whatever and just screw it (face down) on to some beam/joist/rafter/truss/whatever. No thief is going to stumble across that by mistake, and will only know to look for it if your opsec has completely failed.
698  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ColorSEED Or how to simply hide your seed phrase on: September 12, 2023, 06:48:24 PM
The above method is just to save phrase online for accessing fast in case i out of my city.
This is incredibly dangerous.

There are 455 ways to pick 12 words in the same order from the 15 words you have given. For each one of those, there are 132 ways to swap two words. This gives a total number of possibilities of just over 60,000. My not particularly powerful hardware at home can test BIP39 seed phrases at around 100,000 per second, meaning I could crack your method in under a second.

Even if you assume the attacker just wants to pick 12 words in any order from the 15 you have given, that's still only about 218 billion combinations. I could break that in less than 13 days on average, and an attacker with good hardware could do it in hours.

You shouldn't save your seed phrase online ever.
699  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: What advantages exist when generating hardened child keys from unharden? on: September 12, 2023, 03:06:15 PM
Hardened derivation was created because unhardned key derivation has a potential risk.
Hardened and unhardened derivations were defined simultaneously in BIP32. One wasn't created in response to the other.

If one of your private keys leaks, all the other ones may be derived from it.
A private key on its own is insufficient to derive any other key, be that parent, sibling, or child. It is the combination of a private key and the parent public key and parent chain code (as is revealed in the parent extended public key) which reduces the equation for unhardene derivation to a single unknown (the parent private key) and allows it to be calculated.
700  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: [100 dots] seed phrase backup on: September 12, 2023, 12:31:28 PM
So there are lots of companies which already produce metal plates with this hole punch design, but I'm not sure if I've seen one without the template etched on to the metal.

You can easily reduce the size of the plate and/or increase the size of each box by overlaying words 13-24 on top of words 1-12. For example, one dot in a box for words 1-12, two dots for words 13-24, or three dots if the letters overlap. Or a vertical line, horizontal line, and a cross. Or any other such arrangement. Or even do the same with 1-6 overlaid with 7-12, since 12 word seeds are perfectly adequate.
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