Ouch, today someone made a transaction with over $500k fee.

[panganib999]

There are actually many such stories...

In 2013, Friedcat refunded 200 BTC.

In 2014, BTC Guild refunded 30 BTC.

Details @ https://news.bitcoin.com/mining-pool-btc-com-80-btc-fee-refund/

Its thrilling to watch & verify all these on chain. The beauty of Bitcoin.

At first I thought that it is a costly mistake and the person won't get their BTC back.

But the examples of miners who have refunded BTC gives me hope that the person in the story gets a refund.

However this brings to thought, two pertinent questions

• Is there any extrinsic reward if the miner refunds  the BTC?
• Is there a punishment for the miner whether big or small if they refuse to make a refund even after it has been verified?

It's a classic ethical problem. The miner gains nothing and loses everything from whole ordeal. 500k is 500k after all and it's not like you could find a loose 500k when you walk out your door for that morning jog or to grab a bite for breakfast. The miner has to give the money back to the user out of his own pure moral compass and all that. Which I myself don't think is a great basis anyway considering the implications of todays' world setting. In any case, I still think the miner should return the fee since that's still someone else's money. But we can't be very hopeful really, since the miner's anonymous, and we don't have any way whatsoever of rendering him accountable should he run off with the money.

[1714328456]

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[albert0bsd]

However this brings to thought, two pertinent questions

• Is there any extrinsic reward if the miner refunds  the BTC?
• Is there a punishment for the miner whether big or small if they refuse to make a refund even after it has been verified?

No, there is not an extrinsic reward for that, maybe only Advertising.

Second questions is debatable, in theory there is not punishment, maybe just a little of bad reputation but it wasn't their fault in first place

[PX-Z]

Now, this is what you called a news. What a messed up. But based on previous the same incidents the fee was refunded by the miner who mined the blocked, i just don't how it will go this time.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So, turns out it was PayPal which made this error: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/paypal-reportedly-overpaid-510750-in-the-largest-usd-bitcoin-transaction-fee-ever-

PayPal are blaming Paxos, and Paxos are releasing the usual boilerplate "Funds are safu" nonsense while reportedly contracting F2Pool to get their money back.

Just another data point to add the the hundreds of thousands of data points showing that no matter how big, how well know, how "reputable" any centralized exchange is, they cannot be trusted to use even basic security protocols.

[serveria.com]

The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.

Source:
Explorers: https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1700920065934213256
Blockstream: https://blockstream.info/tx/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd?expand
Blockchain.com: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd

Indeed, ouch, I almost feel physical pain when I read how someone fat-fingered such a huge amount to the miners. It would be fair for the pool to return the sum if requested by the sender and it would be fair for the sender to send some amount as a gift back to the pool. Something like $10k would be a great tip I guess. 

[Lanatsa]

The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.

Source:
Explorers: https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1700920065934213256
Blockstream: https://blockstream.info/tx/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd?expand
Blockchain.com: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd

Indeed, ouch, I almost feel physical pain when I read how someone fat-fingered such a huge amount to the miners. It would be fair for the pool to return the sum if requested by the sender and it would be fair for the sender to send some amount as a gift back to the pool. Something like $10k would be a great tip I guess. 

Here's the update of the said huge fees been accidentally sent out.

“Paxos overpaid the BTC network fee on Sept. 10, 2023. This only impacted Paxos corporate operations. Paxos clients and end users have not been affected and all customer funds are safe. This was due to a bug on a single transfer and it has been fixed. Paxos is in contact with the miner to recoup the funds.”

Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction

As long that miner would really be willing to give it back (which is likely) then i do agree that it wont really be that
bad on giving some $10k tip but i highly doubt that. lol

[Cricktor]

As already noted here, the involved address, presumably under control of Paxos, had some huge amount (~63k+) of transactions, some sort of payment processor or whatever it is under some software and/or script control. What astonishes me the most is the lack of sanity checks or how such a bug with huge loss effect could emerge. Some transaction fee estimation is surely necessary especially when there's presumably some automation involved, but why does the software not check and verify if the final transaction details meet the fee estimation at least within one order of magnitude? That's scary!

I'm not sure if enough details will come to the surface what exactly happened here. I guess, they went cheap on software quality control or worse.

[pawel7777]

Here's the update of the said huge fees been accidentally sent out.

“Paxos overpaid the BTC network fee on Sept. 10, 2023. This only impacted Paxos corporate operations. Paxos clients and end users have not been affected and all customer funds are safe. This was due to a bug on a single transfer and it has been fixed. Paxos is in contact with the miner to recoup the funds.”

Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction

As long that miner would really be willing to give it back (which is likely) then i do agree that it wont really be that
bad on giving some $10k tip but i highly doubt that. lol

Thanks for sharing.
It makes sense now, given the huge number of transactions associated with that address, it was much more likely that it was a business rather than an individual sender.
So most likely they were using their own, buggy software to send transactions and calculate fees. Anyhow, it all looks like the story will reach a happy end.

[tinfoil hat]Or maybe it's all just a marketing stunt to advertise the services of Paxos and F2Pool[/tinfoil hat]

[albert0bsd]

[tinfoil hat]Or maybe it's all just a marketing stunt to advertise the services of Paxos and F2Pool[/tinfoil hat]

Somone can said that there is no such thing as bad advertising.

But in this case the reputation of Paxos may be a little damage no? Or maybe not, the regulars users wont even notice this kind of news.

 

Regards!

[NotATether]

Breaking: It was PayPal who overpaid $500k on transaction fees:

He or She must be drunk will setting up that transaction since imagine how huge the fee he set up then for sure he is now so bothered with the money he lost out of that transaction. He should at least check the mempool to see what is the recommended fee to make his transaction fast but crazy things happen I guess this serves a lesson for him and for people which read his story since this is really a painful mistake done by holder.

Suddenly I feel less sympathetic for them. After all these years of limiting people's accounts for buying bitcoins and badmouthing BTC, now they got a taste of how bitter their own punishment really is. Of course, nobody deserves to lose $500k BTC to miners. It is now highly unlikely they will ever see that BTC from F2Pool again.

[pawel7777]

Breaking: It was PayPal who overpaid $500k on transaction fees:

According to the cointelegraph article. linked by Lanatsa above:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction it was not PayPal (as many initially thought) but Paxos, who (allegedly) admitted to CoinTelegraph that the mistake was their own.

[eaLiTy]

The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.

Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

~
 but Paxos, who (allegedly) admitted to CoinTelegraph that the mistake was their own.

Not sure how they can make these blunders .

[albert0bsd]

Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

Those were automated transactions and the bug is actually weird the wallet had more than 60 thoussand transactions and as far we known this is the only mistake made by it.

 

What happend? well it should be nice heard that from those who work for Paxos to known what caused this error. As developer this should be more interesting.

Regards!

[franky1]

F2Pool have said they will hold the funds for three days and return them to the rightful owner if claimed: https://nitter.cz/satofishi/status/1701042302238724512#m

So, turns out it was PayPal which made this error: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/paypal-reportedly-overpaid-510750-in-the-largest-usd-bitcoin-transaction-fee-ever-

Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/paxos-confirms-responsible-for-500k-mistaken-bitcoin-transaction

ok now some highlights
F2pool said it would refund claimant.. yet easiet trick in the book is send funds back to the key of UTXO that spent it
[spoiler: f2pool didnt do the obvious refund trick]

instead f2pool co-mingled the fee overspend with its other coin rewards
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/12539f2c4a6f02bde482b730fea98a8980669bea4da9dd99db69aa6d2999a989
[spoiler: it didnt separate the funds for easy management.. but heaped it together with normal cold/hotwallets funds]
1GX28yLjVWux7ws4UQ9FB4MnLH4UKTPK2z (f2pool2 hotwallet for distribution)
1KFHE7w8BhaENAswwryaoccDb6qcT6DbYY (f2pool2 coldwallet for hoarding)

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline
the most f2pool paid outwardly is ~17btc, but this ~17btc is a 14% take it always takes when distributing funds in ~127btc lumps of payouts.
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/bf3c5bc342eea3ab0d2e6ab34b12674aaaf400074a24157832c23555ee31528e
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/339PiqWnq6WcbXHb91PXfu4q18L9AiZDhK

[m2017]

The bitcoin fees market is getting out of control. Someone must've been really in a hurry as they paid BTC19.82 (~$511,000) fee just to send $2k worth.
Jokes aside, probably a very painful mistake. I wonder how's it going to unfold and whether the miner will return it to the unlucky sender.

Source:
Explorers: https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1700920065934213256
Blockstream: https://blockstream.info/tx/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd?expand
Blockchain.com: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/d5392d474b4c436e1c9d1f4ff4be5f5f9bb0eb2e26b61d2781751474b7e870fd

I doubt it's an act of carelessness, anyone with that kind of a balance would at least know how and where to input the appropriate fees. It could be a way to donate a large sum to the bitcoin miners.

Here's a tx from 2016 that paid a 291.24 btc fee: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/transactions/btc/cc455ae816e6cdafdb58d54e35d4f46d860047458eacf1c7405dc634631c570d this fee was worth 130k USD at that time as the BTC price was close to $441. Looking back now, this fee is worth 7.5m USD.

Of course, this is not carelessness and negligence at all. Have to be blind or mentally retarded (I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend) for the sender to make such a mistake with the numbers. A person dealing with bitcoin is probably not one of them, if sender managed to figure out how it works.

For likers of alternative versions. It could also be a way to launder money! Bitcoin pull will later return most of the btc fees clean and fresh mined bitcoins. Why not, right?

[franky1]

For likers of alternative versions. It could also be a way to launder money! Bitcoin pull will later return most of the btc fees clean and fresh mined bitcoins. Why not, right?

smart people who would use a mining pool to launder. would not pre-broadcast a tx to the entire network first. they would pushtx privately to a contracted mining pool thats in on the service.

then yes the pool would destroy the taint of the UTXO (destroy coin-age) and due to fee then being a "new coin reward" which would be part of new zero taint amount.. the pool would hand back to claimant funds as fresh coin..

however because the tx was broadcast publicly pre-confirm to the entire network. the sender had no control over which pool would collate it into their block. thus less logic/reason to believe it was a planned laundering

logically if you follow the data, its more likely a bad-practice of error (human or wallet code), making a tx which didnt spend funds properly thus leaving such a high fee due to not spending funds to enough outputs

[pawel7777]

Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

They must've been using their own software and probably didn't have any proper measures, i.e. detection of unusually high fee etc.

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline

I think the 3 day deadline was just for the sender to get in touch with them. Verifying, assessing risks and refunding could take longer than that. Plus BTC is fungible (the Monero crowd would disagree), so they can send it from/to any address.
I still can't wrap my head around on how can F2pool make such bold gesture without consulting with the miners' first, they should be entitled to the share of that fee after all.  

[franky1]

Wonder which wallet they are using to make these kind of blunders. I have used majority of the desktop wallets that are available in this space and you cannot make these silly mistakes using them, unless you use some mobile wallet and you are under the influence of alcohol or something similar you might make these mistakes.

They must've been using their own software and probably didn't have any proper measures, i.e. detection of unusually high fee etc.

so paxos admits to failure thus making claim. yet f2pool has not made any 19btc payout to any entity at the 3day deadline

I think the 3 day deadline was just for the sender to get in touch with them. Verifying, assessing risks and refunding could take longer than that. Plus BTC is fungible (the Monero crowd would disagree), so they can send it from/to any address.
I still can't wrap my head around on how can F2pool make such bold gesture without consulting with the miners' first, they should be entitled to the share of that fee after all.  

i wouldnt say bold(bald) i would say its a hairy situation for miners.
but miners are slaves to pools management. which is something miners should consider when thinking about which pool to be managed under. after all this may open up the other people saying they want refunds too because they paid too much fee after the fact, even on small satoshi amounts (though personally i think pools would ignore the small penny pinching refund claims and only do this gesture on obviously large mistakes)

but as for your "fungible" thing.. bitcoin is not fungible.
f2pool have transparent list of its addresses of its hot and cold wallet. and so far. even if they are not using the taint path of the coin fee spend error in new reward. they have not used any other coinrewards lump in their f2pool hoard yet

[cafter]

snip

do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
to get the refund we need to send any request by messaging or emailing or it have any other platform? who will give the refund the pool if the transaction was verified by that pool or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner? what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?

sorry for too many questions but you explain in understandable way so i asked.

[franky1]

do transactions like in this thread when a person mistakenly paid higher fees without knowing about it will get refund from miners?
to get the refund we need to send any request by messaging or emailing or it have any other platform? who will give the refund the pool if the transaction was verified by that pool or when the transaction is verified by an unknown miner then how can anyone will request for a refund and where will he find that unknown miner? what if the miner denied to pay the refund? like if we lost our money then we can complaint to police, is there any authority in this type of case?
do the huge mistakenly sent transaction fee also shared between every miner of that pool?

sorry for too many questions but you explain in understandable way so i asked.

there is no rule that says a pool should. its purely the morals and generosity of the pool to decide

as for claims. usually a erroneous sender has to contact the pool directly to plead, request, ask, beg for a refund..
where if generous, the pool would agree for the erroneous sender to sign a private message using the spending key to prove ownership of the spent funds. then the pool decides on its generosity (0%-10%-90%100%)

the miners(individual worker asics) dont have a say. its purely pool decision