Hello, I think I is necessary a new API getDeadline(Account) to be used instead of doing all the time "getForging(secretPhrase)".
Is not good to be all the time sending the secretPhrase, just to get the deadline.
I have not reviewed java code but if we can t send passphrase each time that would be great This is similar to a conversation i had with Panda about something he was doing. Why can't a client generate a token using the secret phrase using a component of the request - it could be <current time> or anything. The server can decode the token to authenticate the request came from the account owner - we know this as requestType=decodeToken exists. So I don't see the need to ever send the secret phrase when you could send a token, which could even be based on the whole request string... Dont understand why it was ever developed so the secret phrase is sent for a stateless (i.e. non session based) request. |
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I agree that it is an attractive feature, but I think that there may be other ways for NXT users to accomplish instant point of purchase transactions without the network being able to accomplish instant transactions. Unless there is another reason for needing the network to have these types of transaction speeds, Point of purchase transaction speed could possibly be accomplished by other means.
For example, prepaid credit cards. If it were possible to load a prepaid credit card from a NXT account and use the card at point of purchase, there would be the one loading transaction that may take a while, but he point of purchase transactions would be like credit card transactions.
If point of purchase is the only reason for needing high speed transactions, there may be more efficient solutions than trying to speed up network transactions.
It really boils down to who the target is when it comes to marketing. The Ripple approach is more geared toward the individual user; which can be an expensive and time consuming approach. By taking the approach of marketing to businesses (like credit card/ ach providers) it gives the business some of the workload in spreading the usage of their product. Some may argue that this marketing strategy is contrary to decentralization, But businesses would have the same desire for a decentralized platform to engage in business as individuals do.
If you want volume the vast majority of transactions are still cash and instant - these are C2B - Customer to Business... and i'm talking about the 'world as a whole' not the 'western world'. If you want to play in this space you need to be instant, card transactions are not 'instant' - the are authorised, the transaction is accepted with ZERO confirmations but based on a validity check - it requires one confirmation from the card issuer and this is done later.. There is also a complex liability model because of this and that is one reason why fee's are so high. BTW this is also true of pre-pay cards. Prepay cards exist for FIAT, people will only use them for NXT if there is a reason, why not use FIAT. Card Companies have a strangle hold with fee's on the merchants, to get them to use you - you have to give them an alternative - why are webisites accepting bitcoin - because they are crypto enthusiasts all of a sudden - 'No' they are using it as a way to avoid paying higher card charges and a threat to get the card companies to lower their charges. If you use existing pre-pay card networks then you pay their fees?? It costs millions in POS infrastructure to roll out your own. To combat card companies you will see mobile payments moving into this space more and more, there is no crypto capable of 'instant transactions' yet that I have seen. The holy grail is to confirm the transaction end2end between the payer and payee accounts. Like I posted earlier - Instant is NOT needed for everything, and we should have some kind of slow, faster, instant type of transactions. |
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IMHO I think mixing stands a high chance of being made illegal in the future. Tread with caution.
I struggle to see how they would be able to define a "mixer". If they outlaw a certain type, just make another slighty modified one. They would have to downright outlaw anonymity then... I agree... if I pay in cash... no one Id's me.. Mixed transactions will 'stop' some parties transacting through the mixers e.g. businesses because of the legislation applies to them. Governments might come after the 'mixer' because of the use it is put to - they don't like ToR for example. Is a mixer 'illegal' - it is if YOU use it for a transaction that it is illegal for YOU to perform in this way e.g. where you must by law have full KYC of the buyer or seller. Is the mixer a problem where the law doesn't proscribe the buyer and seller are fully identified... No Is the mixer at fault because its used for illegal transactions - if you knowingly aid criminal activity using the mixer - Yes If the mixer is simply used to protect an individuals privacy on a public block chain - I don't know - I would argue 'Not' |
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Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long
I hope you are right, because that would mean that there were a lot of good projects in a small time that got funded. +1 |
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Man I just typed out a huge response as to why this doesn't make any sense and in so doing realized why it makes sense. That is brilliant. Yes it makes perfect sense. Though you dont need a 24 hour limitation. You only need to time limit it to as many blocks as we expect a merchant to need in order to feel secure. 6 maybe 10. 24 hour time lock would allow you to do thinks like buy your own private island with an instantly secure transaction but there is a tradeoff there. is it really worth locking people out of spending their funds for a full 24 hours just so a couple of guys who do HUGE transactions can feel instantly secure. Or is the better trade off to not let people make instantly secure HUGE transactions but also not have to have their nxt locked away for so long. *edit* note that its still vulnerable against an attempted quintuple spend attack  . I agree, its a great idea to hold NXT for instant transactions, I just put a response in the linked thread to see why it can't be done using a reserve balance on the normal account otherwise we have further complexity for the user. |
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i see complexity in moving NXT between the normal account and the special account.
Also the chance to end up with money in the wrong account at the wrong time.
Could this be done by implementing a reserved balance?
So I reserve 10 or 20% of my balance for 'instant transactions', this reserved balance is not available for normal transactions
I can create instant transactions against my 'reserved balance'
NXT checks the total of instant transactions broadcast against the reserved balance
If instant transaction balance >= reserved balance then no more instant transactions will be allowed.
If any instant transactions are outstanding confirmation then the reserved balance cannot be released so this cannot be used for other normal transactions.
If a forger rejects the instant transaction then the instant balance of course reduced.
Attack - the instance balance is updated on broadcast so you would have to spam nodes which did not get the broadcast and know which these were .... every time there is a broadcast the instant balance is updated so there is a small race window where a spammer would have to outpace the networks ability to update the instant balance.
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OK this will upset some people here but IMO hardware/Rpi/etc network for TF@1Ktps isnt way to go. Certainly not one funded from unclaimed coins. Sure, if you want to run a pool and want to use that go for it and buy one and operate it. Personally, I plan on just using a pair of VPSs and I will configure for five nines operation via HA mechanism of polling between the 2 where 2 VPSs are on different providers in different locations.. I have already created a very short vanity account that I plan on using for it. Hopefully my ROI from forging will pay for it. It will require lots of traffic but IMO this is the way to go. Like others Im still not quite sold on the infrastructure committee which is one reason I didnt even run for it.
To do it with owned hardware such as rpi THE RIGHT WAY will require 2 of them in separate locations with power redundancy, etc etc etc. IMO much simpler to VPS it.
You assume that infrastructure fund simply will buy a load of hardware and run it... this would not be wise, I have never seen that written down and personally I wouldn't support it. I too would run VPS anyway and am donating 4 to test net. Do I see this ending up as owning and running H/W - "No" - never seen it that way. |
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No. This committee is only going to exist for months. NXT is supposed to be decentralized, not have a "official committee" for years to come. Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long
Hmmm I hadn't thought of that one - it is quite simple - when the coins run out the committees shutdown... Therefore the only reason people will do this is to spend the unclaimed coins and then stop... So by then NXT is strong enough to have a life of its own... So No one needs to represent it to the outside world... at conferences etc at their own cost. If someone does represent NXT as an individual because they decide to this will still work... Development will be finished... No more investment in the core needed. Individuals/Businesses can just take the public code, change it, get it on lots of nodes and then it becomes the standard. Individuals/Businesses will individually decide to run reliable nodes, able to forge at multiple hundred TPS. Individuals/Businesses will be able to access NXT simply and easily and it will be so prominent its an obvious thing for them to do. NXT will continue to achieve growth by the decentralised actions of individuals doing their own thing but the sum of these actions. I would like to mention NXT itself is decentralised, the community of people that support NXT have an opportunity to decide if they are 'decentralised' - not sure what that means but to decide how they want to organise - if its not committees then we still need to be organised - this is an important point you have helped to raise because you are right the committees are not forever! |
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I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it? And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity... That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution. If you want to be a niche product go for it... we don't need a thousand TPS or any infrastructure a few nodes with mixing will probably do it ... if you want volume you need B2C / C2B transactions i.e. between customers and businesses, legitimate businesses have to comply with AML laws whether they are in the finance industry or not. |
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Sorry guys - another one from me.... I circulated this to the Infrastructure guys ... Ricky has correctly identified this 'unfinished business' should be commented on by the community and the committees should then coordinate, ratify and publish hopefully a commonly agreed charter. This below is my personal view at the moment and should not be taken as agreed or representative of any committee Ian Some thoughts on committee basics which don't seem to have covered and perhaps can be aligned across all... I don't remember any of this being stated but below is kind of my expectations - what do you think?
Its not inf stuff but general - how do we demonstrate that we are doing this well and honestly.
Not sure if its been stated 'tenure' - 1 year - all committees? - re-election all at same time with a non-candidate election officer every 12 months.
Election officer for committee should be known 3 months before election is due to take place and start candidacy process.
If a committee member stands down or is inactive (to be agreed) - invite 6th candidate from previous vote to join.
If committee has less than 6 months to election then it can run with 4 members, committee is not quorate with less than 4 members.
No funds to be paid directly to committee members for committee work.
For projects - members can apply/be part of an application but cannot vote on own project or a project they are part of, whether as investor or contributor.
Removal of a committee member requires N-1 votes - i.e. unanimous by all remaining members with a public statement of why.
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Is the issue all about the speed of tx? If we want higher speed we have to use less nodes or hubs with better equipments. If we want lower speed we can have more small nodes running with cheaper equipments. How about security? Which one has more security for the network?
This could be more interesting when we consider the "parallel chains" idea. Perhaps we can "have our cake and eat it to" by having say an NHS (NXT high speed) parallel chain that is only being forged by powerful hubs capable of handling huge amounts of TPM whilst the main part of the network could be forging standard NXT on low-grade hardware.  This is a very good approach - transaction segmentation, i know of finance platforms that already use it if they know the transaction context which can be determined. There are a lot of transaction cases where a few seconds or minutes do not matter. In a number of cases where there is a physical or RL context e.g. paying in a shop - time is critical - and I would use the term Time Critical not 'Real Time' Every transaction has a time criticality - there don't need to be many classes - if we can implement this and use it to prioritise block content and nodes certified to accept these TX, also possibly with a fee relationship i.e. faster means bigger %age fee then we can implement a TX service level. |
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... the community/early adopters should find a way to cover his (and the other core devs) expenses.
My personal opinion is that 1/3 of unclaimed funds should go for audit/whitepaper, 1/3 for core devs and 1/3 for marketing.
- agree 100% ! No infrastructure committee needed.If you have no reliable network then you have no product. At the moment the NXT network is unknown in capacity and performance. Decentralisation is not a magic bullet guaranteeing performance. People who commit to NXT in volume expect to know about the performance and capacity of what they are going to use. Without this you will still get the unwary/foolish, but when they become aware & wise you will get a lot of bad publicity. Without infrastructure what you will end up with is a prototype with lots of features and some funky websites... Don't get me wrong we need the features and the marketing but the implementation needs to be industrialised and hardened. Do you think that bitcoin is reliant on small miners everywhere with the amount of money it transacts? ... those miners are now an annoyance and big money has already gone into infrastructure to safeguard the mining of that coin to ensure transactions progress. With NXT if we get it right we can still have a fast, reliant, resilient network for transactions AND people getting a return on their stakes. |
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What if we only can lease a maximum of 50% of our nxt forging power (or x% amount)? This would help get a low standard deviation for forging fee while if someone want its full forging power for all his nxt, he would still have to run a node.
You are assuming it was "part of the plan" to have a very large number of people running nodes. The "plan" as far I as understand it now was to have a relatively small number of "super nodes" controlling the network. The vision of Nxt is/was really to compete with Ripple rather than with anything else. Been thinking.... how different is this for NXT compared to Ripple or Bitcoin, Ripple has its servers, Bitcoin now has its pools and its really the pools that control the network. NXT has a huge advantage here - the pool is the node, you don't need thousands of computers providing mining power to the pool..... your stake is the equivalent of GHs but all you need to do is loan it to an entry to forge with and wait to receive the returns. The people who run the nodes supporting a community of forgers who have leased their stake to it will have to invest in a reliable network kit, do this efficiently and provide a return - to me its like putting your stake in a bank and waiting for some interest. People who have a large investment in NXT would run a node to secure the network as would others, I think CIYAM is right, they will buy their own stakes or like exchanges use their NXT working capital to forge with, and there is nothing wrong with this....\ Clearly in the case of an exchange I hope an enlightened exchange owner will eventually offer a return on the forging to customers so they also store their NXT there and earn 'interest' on it. Other people will set up services like NXT IO (i have 60k in there - call me a fool if you like but I will trust them) because we need something, unfortunately NXTPool already folded because of lack of support, which I can understand when you have to send your NXT to them, which is why we need leasing. and at the moment all we have is debate.People are also bitching and moaning about forging/fee's not being viable etc... I have stated before that there are platforms which do this for less than 1 euro cent per TX today, no they are not decentralised (well they are clustered) they provide full transaction confirmation in real time (<10s) between 2 parties, run at over 300 tps and plans are in place for 1000tps+ NXT has the opportunity to deliver at this cost base or less, but if people want to make money with NXT, we have to get this FORGING! sorted so platforms like NXT-io, and hopefully many others can be in place in a way that people can trust, because if we have the network the transactions will come.. |
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I agree, if its real the military will steal it.. If its real people will kill to get one (literally probably). but watching it made my day so thanks for posting.... and I SOOOO WANT ONE !!!!! |
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** Ridiculous **
All I've done is volunteer time over the last few months trying to assist Nxt. I've had quite a bit of experience in other communities and wanted to help move Nxt forward, nothing more. During this committee election, I received a PM from someone in the community letting me know about some of the dirty tactics being used:
"Two members from CoinTropolis are ahead of me, what does that say about NXT? Are we going to let another Charity site hijack our marketing plans? Seems like a fix, and with two of them we'd be stacking NXT for giving coins to one specialized charity. "
Relax. Nobody can make everybody happy. There will be friction all the time. Do not be discouraged by such statements. As long as you do it for the community, such statements do not matter. Chill, some people when they really want something step to far... if it was posted on here and every started bitching and agreeing then ok... but don't ditch this community because someone is trying too hard in the wrong way... This ballot aint fixed,,,,, we have our electoral officer to thank for that. |
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Then we are more like Ripple than people think... but with lower Transaction performance :/
Ripple's tx performance will drop with the number of nodes - and with TF and forge leasing Nxt's performance will improve. Understand what isn't relevant is "little people forging on their little computers" and I'm guessing it was never part of the plan (thus the penalty thing as much as anything is to discourage people who "don't belong to the club"). Yep... I think you are right... unfortunately... to lots of this discussion is irrelevant.. |
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We need an idea that keeps more nodes on the network, doesn't drive a centralisation of structure and gives people more chances of winning even if they have to divide those winnings, and does not magnify the impact of the TF Penalty.
A quote from CfB that I think is pertinent: [7:58:15 PM] Come-from-Beyond: the idea is to let good guys to "conspire"
[7:58:17 PM] Come-from-Beyond: coz good guys will form a single group
[7:58:23 PM] Come-from-Beyond: while bad ones - a lot of groups
So just having "more nodes on the network" is not what he nor BCNext seem to be really concerned with (nor in limiting forging power). My guess is that what they really want is just a few small large players working as a tight group to control the network (it would explain the reason why so few were included in the IPO also - things like 21 BTC are just red herrings to my thinking). Then we are more like Ripple than people think... but with lower Transaction performance :/ |
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If you are offline and not forging you don't get a share
if you are offline for 1440 blocks you get removed from the Co-Op
How would you determine if someone is offline? sorry wording... its not them its a node forging with their account |
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One reason is that TF is supposed to not favour one single "best forger" for one block but instead that there should always be x equivalent "best forgers" for any given block. So if you are wanting to "skip your turn" you don't need to "pretend your asleep" but perhaps you just send out your block *after* the others that are equally qualified to forge already have.
This situation becomes quite tricky when you think about network topology and is going to result in some nodes "penalising you" and some nodes "not" depending upon whether or not they think you broadcast your block "on time" (i.e. a race condition) and I am concerned it could result in more people "ending up on a fork" than not "penalising" at all (because if you are a large stake holder then you are likely to be forging more than once per day).
The idea was to penalize if ur block wasn't included. Not if u didn't send it. Both - this is build on an earlier idea... I know this is not exactly right but its how I want to try to get this idea across.. Forging is like a lottery. Every node gets a ticket with a number of winning lines There is a lottery every minute A node can enter its ticket once every 24hrs - if it uses it and it doesn't win it can't play again for 24h Ideas which centralise NXT, result in NXT being concentrated in nodes etc are bad for the network potentially. We need an idea that keeps more nodes on the network, doesn't drive a centralisation of structure and gives people more chances of winning even if they have to divide those winnings, and does not magnify the impact of the TF Penalty. Forging Co-OperativesI keep my node online, forging with my NXT. I agree to join the "NXT Cat lovers" CO-Operative (name created when first person registered it) By joining I have agreed to share any winnings from the lines on my ticket with all others in the Co-Op and vice versa The potential to win is equal to the total NXT in the cooperative forging. The returns are divided proportionally to the NXT in the Co-Operative. Nodes still enter their tickets but only the tickets entered by the nodes in the Co-Op get deducted from the Co-op ability for forge. There are no 'Owners' or Fees for 'Owners' as people are using their own Nodes. I would make joining a co-op like moving NXT so 1440 blocks to become an effective member No benefits until you do become and effective member Co-Op can't kick you out i.e. if your node/account gets a penalty. If you are offline and not forging you don't get a share if you are offline for 1440 blocks you get removed from the Co-Op How you enforce the fee share from the forged block I don't know how to do but if you like this I was hoping you might |
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Nxt is still there - if you put in this url its individual graph comes up http://coinmarketcap.com/nxt_30.htmlWhile I was looking at coin market - this was aurora coin... If you were a buyer on that pointy bit - that is gonna hurt... 
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