NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[ChuckOne]

This testcase succeeded!
We should do some additional similar testcases

Great to see people creating test cases - but it would also help if people created "extreme test cases" that "purposely try to break AE".

Devs unfortunately have a habit of only testing the "expected use cases" themselves (so generally you'd expect that you won't find a bug that way). It is when you do something "only an idiot would do" that you are more likely to uncover any flaws.

Simple examples of such "idiotic" ideas might be things like "0 value" bids/asks or other "out of range values" as well as edge cases to do with zero or potentially negative balances.

Don't just "test that it works" try and "test that you can't screw it no matter how hard you try".

Some bounties for "breaking things" might be in order also (hint to technical funding committee).

Send me your tescases and I will log them in the test management tool during the weekend. I will also communicate how to access it, once I find some time to do it. (I will do it today or tomorrow)

I am on a meeting today the whole day with only limited access to the forum.

Can you specify load tests there? That is test with huge amounts of transactions involved.

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[ChuckOne]

i was thinking about the issue of forging too... to be specific, forging pools.. i dont know if this could work or be beneficial but here goes,

(if leasing forging power is posible) people lease their forging power to pools! pools generally use one acc to and pool the funds to increase forging power.. there fore there's only one large acc forging.

i suggest pools are rewarded if they run multiple nodes.. so say 100 people lease their power to a pool the pool uses one acc to forge as normal but the more nodes the pool has the more it increases there forging power.

imagine it like the pools running the nodes for the people they are renting forging power from. so their is an incentive to run loads and loads of nodes,, proof of node! ha iv no idea if that can work or not or if its just stupid.. just throwing it out their! some one else might get an idea from it!

How do you prove that you run different nodes?

[verymuchso]

If you are offline and not forging you don't get a share
if you are offline for 1440 blocks you get removed from the Co-Op

How would you determine if someone is offline?

[ChuckOne]

Has somebody thought about the Decentralized App Store written by BCNext:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317607.0 ?

Or could we have decentralized buying and selling of files (with any content)?

How about this:

1. Seller generates a random key and encrypts the file to be sold.
2. Seller stores the file somewhere on the net, and announces what he is selling (either on the blockchain or outside the blockchain).
3. Buyer sends NXT to seller.
4. Seller sends a message to the buyer with a download link and the key generated in step one.
5. Buyer downloads the file and decrypts it.


Would somebody like to work on this for a bounty?

Well, good to have people remembering all the ideas. Could you create a thread for that and tell Damelon to include it to its NXT threads website?

[gs02xzz]

Hello,Nxters,
BTC38 has updated the discussion,they need help to add Nxt.
Come here and give as more help as possible.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=501963.0

Email sent to our devs that offered help with Cryptsy.

Alright Thanks!

Don't forget that we have to describe what NXT is in English and Chinese. We have to do that better when we did it with Cryptsy.

I have sent them a copy of NXT description in both Chinese and English based on NxtMinnow's version.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ZN4tQbO_XF-kYaOu5-YS1_tCf_KLoTqLXuZDyX11eQ/mobilebasic?pli=1&hl=en

[cc001]

Great idea.

We need to have performance tests and boundary tests, too.

Could you write a script for that? I would like to see how AE performs in extreme conditions. Especially, when the underlying NXT infrastructure make transition to the next block.

I'm in talk with l8orrie, maybe we could use the base of his FreeRider to create a tool that performs some automatic tests, including "special cases" and performance tests. Maybe even use it for continuous regression tests of the complete NXT core?

[CIYAM]

We need an idea that keeps more nodes on the network, doesn't drive a centralisation of structure and gives people more chances of winning even if they have to divide those winnings, and does not magnify the impact of the TF Penalty.

A quote from CfB that I think is pertinent:

[7:58:15 PM] Come-from-Beyond: the idea is to let good guys to "conspire"
[7:58:17 PM] Come-from-Beyond: coz good guys will form a single group
[7:58:23 PM] Come-from-Beyond: while bad ones - a lot of groups

So just having "more nodes on the network" is not what he nor BCNext seem to be really concerned with (nor in limiting forging power).

My guess is that what they really want is just a few large players working as a tight group to control the network (it would explain the reason why so few were included in the IPO also - things like 21 BTC are just red herrings to my thinking).

[chanc3r]

If you are offline and not forging you don't get a share
if you are offline for 1440 blocks you get removed from the Co-Op

How would you determine if someone is offline?

sorry wording... its not them its a node forging with their account

[chanc3r]

We need an idea that keeps more nodes on the network, doesn't drive a centralisation of structure and gives people more chances of winning even if they have to divide those winnings, and does not magnify the impact of the TF Penalty.

A quote from CfB that I think is pertinent:

[7:58:15 PM] Come-from-Beyond: the idea is to let good guys to "conspire"
[7:58:17 PM] Come-from-Beyond: coz good guys will form a single group
[7:58:23 PM] Come-from-Beyond: while bad ones - a lot of groups

So just having "more nodes on the network" is not what he nor BCNext seem to be really concerned with (nor in limiting forging power).

My guess is that what they really want is just a few small large players working as a tight group to control the network (it would explain the reason why so few were included in the IPO also - things like 21 BTC are just red herrings to my thinking).

Then we are more like Ripple than people think... but with lower Transaction performance :/

[CIYAM]

Then we are more like Ripple than people think... but with lower Transaction performance :/

Ripple's tx performance will drop with the number of nodes (or federated servers or gateways) - and with TF and forge leasing Nxt's performance will improve.

Understand what isn't relevant is "little people forging on their little computers" and I'm guessing it was never part of the plan (thus the penalty thing as much as anything is to discourage people who "don't belong to the club").

But otherwise *yes* it would appear the plan was always to try and be more like Ripple than Bitcoin (and BCNext's comment that he didn't want NXT to really be worth anything is very reminiscent of Ripple's earlier statements about XRP being like "stamps").

[w4llace]

Here is version 2.2 of my Windows/Mac OSX NXT client "NXT Solaris".

Hei Marcus,

your client is crashing after the start! If I go through the way with NXTSolarisStarter.exe some seconds later the Start-Window appears again where I have to choose the open- or closed-source-edition.

[chanc3r]

Then we are more like Ripple than people think... but with lower Transaction performance :/

Ripple's tx performance will drop with the number of nodes - and with TF and forge leasing Nxt's performance will improve.

Understand what isn't relevant is "little people forging on their little computers" and I'm guessing it was never part of the plan (thus the penalty thing as much as anything is to discourage people who "don't belong to the club").

Yep... I think you are right... unfortunately... to lots of this discussion is irrelevant..

[CIYAM]

Yep... I think you are right... unfortunately... to lots of this discussion is irrelevant..

Quite likely BCNext studied Ripple closely (maybe even worked on it) and thought PoS could be a less "centralised looking" method of consensus than the "federated servers" model.

Anyway - at least I now have a much better understanding about "what the plan" is (or at least was) - I guess it is now up to the community to decide whether to follow this plan or create a different one.

[btc2nxt]

Great idea.

We need to have performance tests and boundary tests, too.

Could you write a script for that? I would like to see how AE performs in extreme conditions. Especially, when the underlying NXT infrastructure make transition to the next block.

I'm in talk with l8orrie, maybe we could use the base of his FreeRider to create a tool that performs some automatic tests, including "special cases" and performance tests. Maybe even use it for continuous regression tests of the complete NXT core?

Here are  7 test cases, i posted again.

 a) a ask order match multi bid orders(1-1,1-3 have tested ,1-100+ haven't tested
    e.g.   bid orders:
           quantity 1,price 1
           quantity 1,price 2
           quantity 1,price 3
           ...
           quantity 1,price 100
        ask order
         quantity 1000,price 100 
  b) reverse case a ,1 bid order match 100+ haven't tested
  c) more bid orders(100+,1K+,10K+) want only a ask order at the same time
   e.g.
    e.g.   bid orders:
          user a:  quantity 10,price 100
          user b:  quantity 10,price 100
          user b:  quantity 10,price 101
           ...
          user zz:  quantity 10,price 100
        ask order
         quantity 10,price 100 
     in this case, b should win, if b.price=100,whose.chain long would be win.
  d) reverse case c
  e) 100+ user Issue same asset at the same time
      i think whose.chain long would be win. 
  f)in case a-e, some of them cacel orders:ask orders,bid orders, and check balance is ok or not.(NRS balance is ok or not)
  g) after  order match ,check hold asset qty is right or not.


btw l launched a extremely test, place 10 orders at same in 10 threads.

[ChuckOne]

Great idea.

We need to have performance tests and boundary tests, too.

Could you write a script for that? I would like to see how AE performs in extreme conditions. Especially, when the underlying NXT infrastructure make transition to the next block.

I'm in talk with l8orrie, maybe we could use the base of his FreeRider to create a tool that performs some automatic tests, including "special cases" and performance tests. Maybe even use it for continuous regression tests of the complete NXT core?

The former: +1440

The latter: have a talk with Jean-Luc

[bitcoinpaul]

Yep... I think you are right... unfortunately... to lots of this discussion is irrelevant..

Quite likely BCNext studied Ripple closely (maybe even worked on it) and thought PoS could be a less "centralised looking" method of consensus than the "federated servers" model.

Anyway - at least I now have a much better understanding about "what the plan" is (or at least was) - I guess it is now up to the community to decide whether to follow this plan or create a different one.

Why are ripple stamps worth something?

[CIYAM]

Why are ripple stamps worth something?

Basically because they decided to "pay themselves" with them in their "launch" (giving their employees an incentive to try and get people to "speculate" on them).

[btc2nxt]

to cc001
Would you rewrite the 7 cases i posted

i've just placed 100 bid orders on the same asset
time is 4 minutes .

if 100 tester bid  for a same asset at same time ,we would have a 10K bids

[gimre]

I have made the current source code repository public:

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/

Master branch is still 0.7.6, develop is 0.8.3 plus latest unreleased changes.

I need to say this:

What you've made with NXT code since 0.4.x is amazing, your work on NXT is invaluable.

KUDOS TO YOU, SIR!

[cc001]

to cc001
Would you rewrite the 7 cases i posted

i've just placed 100 bid orders on the same asset
time is 4 minutes .

if 100 tester bid  for a same asset at same time ,we would have a 10K bids

I will try to implement/use/test some scripts or tools to perform such tests during the weekend. I guess you are the "tulip"-guy on the testnet?
did you use a script to place these 100 orders?