Bitcoin Forum
May 26, 2024, 07:47:22 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 [39] 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 ... 207 »
761  Economy / Speculation / Re: Whats causing the price to go high to ATH? on: May 02, 2017, 01:34:49 AM
Finex, feels like a goxing.....

Just like it, that spilt say only one thing.


srsly wait until the wash out as to what must be happening over there, so crash recover repeat.

That said the Japan ruling is important.
762  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitfinex Price Spreads & Bitcoin Bubble on: May 02, 2017, 01:15:18 AM
so every one is madly converting fiat they have in bitfinex and then withdrawing coins then going to other exchanges....

what are the limits of withdrawal of coins/day on bitfinex?

this really does not look good.

Going to see a goxing soon especially if the they are calling in the lawyers.

It doesn't matter how solvent you are in FIAT, if the bank is freezing your funds.



The question is whether they will have sufficient funds to deal with all withdrawals in BTC or ETH. In theory it should be so because after all the people who are buying BTC to withdraw are buying the BTC that another user has put on sale. The question is who is selling BTC for fiat in Bitfinex right now? Must be people very confident that the exchange fixes their banking problems.

You know that's a really good question....essentially the FIAT holders are trapped....I for one would be not buying fiat on their exchange.....

In one way, look upon this as a prelude to what happens when the gen pop realize how worthless their state fiat is and want to get BTC....
763  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ethereum’s Proof of Stake is 75% complete on: May 01, 2017, 11:49:56 AM
What will happen to the miners of Ethereum after the switch to proof of stake? I have asked this question before and I have received a lot of answers that say they will mine other coins.

The real answer is the miners after supporting the ETH network will have been screwed over by the Ethereum Team. Anyone who  suggests they will just mine other coins doesn't have a basic understanding of mining at all.

As soon as all that mining power attempts to move to other coins, the difficulty level will sky rocket and mining the coin becomes unprofitable. In general the quantity of hashpower following a coin mirrors price. If price goes up making it more profitable to mine new hashrate comes in to support the coin. If price drops eventually miners start loosing money and hashrate drops. This creates an equilibrium between price and hashrate. This equilibrium means that in most cases coins already have a hashrate in proportion to the value of the coin. It's because of this balance that the hashrate of the ETH network has no where to go.



yeah nah, your hooked on hashing. Anything that can provide security sufficiently with less drag will be just as good if not better than minning.

Do you have any examples of a pos chain that has been successfully double spent hacked or forked? I am sure there are some?
764  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are we makeing up time for the lost years between 2013 and now or pump & D on: May 01, 2017, 10:50:29 AM
Not true at all.  The amount of liquidity on exchanges is mind-boggling small and the vast majority of Bitcoin isn't even in circulation.  It wouldn't even take a quarter of that to pump up the price that far unless loads of hodlers give up and start dumping their old Bitcoin on exchanges.

Yeah. People tend to forget that it's just a fraction of all bitcoins mined which are actually "alive" and circulating. In reality, numbers we should be considering in practical sense of market cap are definitely a lot smaller.
Market cap is a meaningless number anyway when referring to currencies.  Bitcoin is very unusual and it shouldn't be treated like the shares of a company - it's different and it's impossible to tell how much is in use or how much is lost or so many other factors.  Some people just like their soundbites.

good points all BTC is sui generis, and market cap does not really capture its value.

Also the amount in circulation is so much smaller than the supply. I mean 1 mill seem to be gone via satoshi, and everyone else with any sense, has most of thier BTC locked in cold storage, or they will lose it on an exchange eventually. Then there is the natural attrition via lost HD's, deaths etc.

The more I think about it the more I think BTC is going 5K or 10K sooner that later, but there will be a few shakeout on the way.

765  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitfinex Price Spreads & Bitcoin Bubble on: May 01, 2017, 08:18:19 AM
so every one is madly converting fiat they have in bitfinex and then withdrawing coins then going to other exchanges....

what are the limits of withdrawal of coins/day on bitfinex?

this really does not look good.

Going to see a goxing soon especially if the they are calling in the lawyers.

It doesn't matter how solvent you are in FIAT, if the bank is freezing your funds.

766  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are we makeing up time for the lost years between 2013 and now or pump & D on: May 01, 2017, 05:17:25 AM
Nobody here knows for sure, just lots of uninformed speculation.  Hitting a new ATH definitely bodes well for bitcoin, and I think the price gains we've seen can be sustained.  And I must tell you, it is nice to see old timers such as yourself chiming in.

heh old timer......

I was giving lectures in my specialty electives of banking law back in 2006 about FIAT currencies and how it all worked, FIAT is not bad per se, as it allows capital and labour to come together and produce something where otherwise it would not be able to be done by creating a consensus in about and availability in the right time frame

but fiat does cause exponential inverted pyramid of debt issuance by the banks [money printing] as the only way to pay debt off is to issue more debt. Again not to bad because you can just keep printing.

However the bad comes in where most people loose access to the proportion of the money printing, and so become disenfranchised as thier buying power become less.

It discounts labour capital and innovation. This seems to occur by the structural nature of the banking system, land ownership, and barriers to entry to various licenses and appreciating assets.

The Banking system without competition endlessly increases its % of the buying power of Banks and friends.

When I was lecturing on this, you could see the eyes glazing over, the actual sections of the banking act would have probably meant more to the audience.

Its amazing how un~prepared people are to even grasp the nature of money itself, it just beyond their comprehension. Almost every accountant I have talked about BTC outright states they do not understand it and are generally hostile.

One banker was very very hostile acting insulted that this thing could have value.

Most people are so chained by the non information surrounding FIAT that is endlessly propagated ie action x costs $Y billion as if means anything anymore.

Even my self with the the precise background to embrace BTC, both legal and technical, came across it in 2011 and still did not buy in. I tried but it was too hard from where I was in the world to get hold of BTC at least 3 days solid trying to get money through.

When it went from about $25? back to $2 I was wow I am so glad I missed out on buying that. Because I still had not grasped the implications!

It was only in 2013 when I heard on you tube video about mining that people were fabing asics the penny dropped.....because I knew from my engineering you needed serious money to get a foundry to fab up chips for you. This was not short term.

You almost have to have an epiphany to understand BTC and even then have a mind prepared by some rather unique circumstances to understand it.

Fortunately nothing educates people like seeing other people make money, and this $30B market cap makes people look on and learn.

Partly because BTC tech itself is sui generis, and so unable to be described adequately by anything before it. Its sort like only seeing the edges of something in 3D poking through, but the thing actually exists in 4D. You mind has to be able to imply the consequences, shape and impact of the thing.

Satoshi also struggled to describe the implications of the tech....its so encompassing

Then you sort of go wow, I see.

A few important aspects of BTC tech as I see it;

[1] Much of Govt rendered redundant,
[2] New form of ad hoc corporation,
[3] records system done
[4] generate trust without trust
[5] no censorship,
[6] atomized decision makeing (well not some much with the network issues atm).
[7] For the first time in the history of man, you can get wealth by a pure idea.
[8] Before this you had to go to a venture capitalist/bank and be issued money, ultimately or physically take wealth by force. For the first time in history by the power a pure idea, released, in code, an anonymous person/entity accrued $1+ Billion. They never went to Banks, VC's anyone.
[9] Another aspect of this is you can now hold wealth and only give it up if another party can convince you on the merits of their ideas. This will force rational tax policy.
[10] Nations can now have their inefficiencies and un economic decisions on a global scale by an independent actor.
[11] Aspects of legal systems may be replaced
[12] No off switch
[13] Transparent proof of wealth held.
[14] The inversion where only open source code will be trusted, which locks out most of the closed propriety models of software and ideas, and the patent system, this make it near impossible for say Facebook, Google, or any govt entity to act in the sphere maliciously
[15] The difference being you can not alienate the capital of BTC. By this I mean Apple say can make a bad decision and misspend all its capital and go bankrupt. BTC the value can not be alienated from BTC on transferred. No other company acts in this way (though banks kind of do). BTC value can de diminished by poor dev or lack of appropriate dev though.
[16] immutable ledger by which to arrange your actions
[17] You cannot buy it out, a govt or private actor and not just buy out BTC all they can do is increase its value if they choose to print money to try and buy it all.


Overall it forces trust in a trust in a trust less system it tends to minimize entropy so will win out.

When I say BTC tech I refer not to just BTC but the 1000's of alts all clamoring to be No.1, which I believe is the biggest deterrent any state actor could face in shutting down BTC itslef, there are literally so many more alts which will be exponentially harder to control, it makes BTC look rather tame.

I also suspect some government agencies are likely to launch their own coins or buy into BTC, in attempt to become a little more independent, and will see it withing their remit or lessening costs and being self funding, which will be very interesting overtime

Now a tiny fraction of a Fraction hold BTC or alts, Alot have heard about BTC, but in means almost nothing to them. The room for growth is in the trillions. As the market cap goes up its more likely to go up because it becomes more useful to larger value allocation. When you can dump it x billion and not move the market.









767  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bobby Lee - price target in 2020; after block halving: USD $5k-$11k on: May 01, 2017, 03:51:43 AM
Bobby Lee seems very conservative and measured in his opinions from what I have read, it speaks well he was able to get such segwit onto LTC
768  Economy / Speculation / Are we makeing up time for the lost years between 2013 and now or pump & D on: May 01, 2017, 03:42:02 AM
I kinda feel on a weekly time frame, we are pumping a bit hard, but on a macro scale BTC seems to go above critical amounts such over 1 c, 1$, 100$, 1K, etc.

Are we catching up for the lost years, eg due for a 5 ~10K pump then fall back to 3K or something?

769  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Discussion (Altcoins) / Re: Alt ICO calander on: April 30, 2017, 02:49:54 AM
Thanks
770  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IOTA on: April 30, 2017, 12:22:45 AM
How do you claim your IOTA's?
771  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Discussion (Altcoins) / Alt ICO calander on: April 30, 2017, 12:08:31 AM
Does anyone know where a good ICO launch calendar or list is?
772  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who wants these Bitcoin scaling wars to end? on: April 29, 2017, 09:04:32 AM
The fall out from this scaling *war* is the accelerated ascendancy of the Alts. Eth particularly shows how strong dev can make up for a litany of sins including the DAO roll back . The promise going forward that there will be room for dev to progress appears to be a major factor of value in a blockchain.

BTC maybe an exemplar of how the first mover effect can be squandered.

Ultimately it may be a function of how mining has panned out in the division of power.

I *feel* that pos and pos like is a better solution to some extent with correctly incentivized nodes, (this can be quite a task to get right of course).

On this note has any pos chain ever been double spent, forked or attacked?
773  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ethereum’s Proof of Stake is 75% complete on: April 27, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
1. ETC won't go POS. In ETH, POS isn't simply POS, like what other projects have. But in ethereum, POS also means scaling and a shit ton of different projects and development.
ETC devs aren't capable of providing this kind of development, therefore this is the reason they hardforked, removed the ice age and set the coin cap to 210-230mil tokens. They can barely copy some updates the Ethereum foundation does. But weren't even capable to copy the update to remove the blockchain bloat caused by the spamers ( they could implement it when they removed the ice age if they were capable ).

2. Nobody cares about PPC. If you want to succeed post bitcoin era in crypto scene, you gotta do so much more than simply aiming to become a currency. Atleast, if you really want to be only currency, you'll have, at minimum, to have privacy and be able to scale onchain. No project can currently really scale onchain, despite what they claim. Ofcourse, i'm talking about public and decentralized projects. Projects owned by private companies that are centralized databases don't count.

3. I don't think BTC has a future. It is supposed to be peer electronic cash system as written in here https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf . The excuse with "store of value" is made by people who wanted to attract greater fools and by the people who came late into BTC ponzi game. It can't scale, fees are huge, and it's not working/used as what it was programmed to do. Eventually it will run out of greater fools, and in the future because of the halvings the reward will be so small miners won't be profitable and it's security will decrease. Because nobody will pay 50$ fees to support the miners.


in relation [2] PPC is aimed at being a backbone "currency". This is something most still don't understand. Its the opposite to a retail currency
774  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ethereum’s Proof of Stake is 75% complete on: April 27, 2017, 03:25:47 AM
[1] would not ETC go POS as well?

[2] PPC the original POS coin will be proven correct and become one of the backbone high value coins as its designed to do exactly one thing well, be the Backbone. No other coins even (seem) to understand or tried to be this. The are all be a swiss army knife of everything, which means compromise on many things.

[3] BTC is realistically faceing problems due to dev issues, and the mining head wind that is always against it.
775  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / BU boosters shorting LTC now segwit confirmed? on: April 27, 2017, 03:16:58 AM
What do you think?, I think they must be, but will run out of BTC/$$$ as the market moves against them.
776  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Altcoins price can be manipulate? on: April 26, 2017, 11:56:40 PM
There's no such thing as manipulation,  just market price people can and are willing to pay, buy and sell at, [unless an exchange is faking its data]
777  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Insanely high miner fees on: April 24, 2017, 10:22:26 AM
The fees are really painful.

Been seeing some 2BTC transactions having to pay 0.0006BTC fees, and 5BTC transactions were 0.002+BTC fees.

No wonder Jihad & Roger want this to last as long as possible, the mining farms are making a bomb.

but this does not make sense increase block size increase adoption, get way more even at lower fees?
778  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: I hold no view seeking information: 4 to 8 MB now. Technical Objections? on: April 23, 2017, 08:41:48 AM
You need to use very precise language for technical discussions. Not only is your language not very precise, but you're also repeating the broad points you already made (without taking the counter-points into account), and providing no reasoning, either

Perhaps if I was having a pure codebase discussion as in is the specific function and the best implementation of that. Eg which call to which library may best serve.

However this  is a meta discussion about the development pathways could find the highest accord.

If I cast my language to tightly to early it may exclude prematurely, relevant views. So it's by design I leave the language open. As the discussion develops then it can be come more nuanced and precision can be effected.

I *think* I did largely address your views by withdrawing from an implementation (eg segwit), that you viewed as already encompassing solutions that forced the adoption of one camp, fair call.

I thus expanded my definitions and compass, which I think neatly demonstrates why you do not want precision as this stage, or the type of precision you refer too is orthogonal to what this thread is about, or a combination of the two.
779  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: I hold no view seeking information: 4 to 8 MB now. Technical Objections? on: April 23, 2017, 05:34:13 AM
ok to draw this together

It seems
[1] a 2MB block

No.

[2] quadratic solution of some type and :: [segwit and flex trans seem to have some options]


Yes.


[3] maybe compression ::  [segwit and flex trans seem to have some options]


No, Segwit does not change space efficiency, and flextrans is not even a serious proposal


may be a dialogue that most parties could agree on::

Could this form a backbone to the discussion going forward?

Stripping away the emotive which may be justified but deleterious, reaching a compromise and consensus, where cooler heads prevail.

The miners, the devs, the userbase, exchanges, etc, all these parties can show now if you wish the way forward/

Sure there will be testing and things at the margins that due to unseen issues or tech requirements need to fall one way or the other.

Can we have this accord?


No.


You're not listening, and you're mis-representing the case for improving space usage (which is the only form of scaling possible) so badly, that it's not easy to take your assessment seriously as a compromise proposal. You're also advocating a 2MB base blocksize hardfork, it's been rejected twice already (XT & Classic), and would involve an 8MB total blocksize when one factors in the corresponding witness blocksize. No.


Remember: Segwit is already a significant compromise between big blocks and 1MB forever. I'm somewhere in between big blocks and perma-1MB, and I am willing to accept Segwit, despite it's 4MB total blocksize being a concern to me.


What's happened is that the big blocks proponents just will not accept the 4MB Segwit blocksize increase, and keep pushing and pushing and pushing for as big a blocksize as they can, and never compromise anywhere (and also never hardfork the blockchain as they have constantly threatened for 2+ years). Your "compromise" just falls into the same category of rhetoric, and it's unpalatable for well grounded and argued technical reasons.
Firstly I genuinely appreciate the time you took for your input.

I am unaligned excepting as to detrimental stagnation (if this exists). I am doing this as an exercise in the search of truth.

I perhaps should not have said segwit or flextrans, so I withdraw them.

Lets take them out of the argument as they are clearly anchored to a lot of baggage.

I should say or rather recast as this a code solution that is acceptable to most parties,

Part of this seems to be to show on major part of the argument we are willing to look as an implement

[1] blocksize change,
[2] quadratic solutions, and compression of data if this can be achieved.
[3] +/-  compression [if it make it easier to agree throw it out]

The 2MB is to say we are willing to the concerned party we as community are prepared to increase the block size and sets the precedent for the future, its just shifts to a matter of degree, in the circumstances and cost of the tech of the day and the risks of over centralization, that is what  I was trying to get across.

780  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: I hold no view seeking information: 4 to 8 MB now. Technical Objections? on: April 23, 2017, 03:32:21 AM
ok to draw this together

It seems
[1] a 2MB block
[2] quadratic solution of some type and :: [segwit and flex trans seem to have some options]
[3] maybe compression ::  [segwit and flex trans seem to have some options]

may be a dialogue that most parties could agree on::

Could this form a backbone to the discussion going forward?

Stripping away the emotive which may be justified but deleterious, reaching a compromise and consensus, where cooler heads prevail.

The miners, the devs, the userbase, exchanges, etc, all these parties can show now if you wish the way forward/

Sure there will be testing and things at the margins that due to unseen issues or tech requirements need to fall one way or the other.

Can we have this accord?

I think the self selecting nature of people in BTC, and realizing what it is, I think we can.







Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 [39] 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 ... 207 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!