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7861  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: infinite increasing of the chain size on: December 13, 2010, 03:04:14 AM
So how much data does the chain contain right now ?

- 97,289 blocks
- 56,806,614 bytes
- 206,775 transactions
- 248,937 outputs
- 278,362 inputs
- 162,871 addresses
7862  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining cartel attack on: December 13, 2010, 12:29:23 AM
What happens when two people both transmit a different valid next block? How does the network determine which chain to keep growing?

You build onto whichever one you saw first.
7863  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: BTC "Not Connected" on: December 12, 2010, 08:00:19 PM
Are you running Microsoft Security Essentials? You need to add an exception for Bitcoin in that case.
7864  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: infinite increasing of the chain size on: December 12, 2010, 11:19:53 AM
Only generators need to store the entire block chain. Non-generators only need to store the tiny block headers. This is already mostly implemented (see fClient in the source).
7865  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Lack of privacy in transactions? on: December 12, 2010, 05:58:06 AM
Am I understanding the mechanism for transactions properly or is it possible for someone who knows what they are doing and has a lot of computer power to spare (say the US Govt..) to build a mostly complete database of all transactions?

No supercomputer is needed. I've already done it:
http://blockexplorer.com/

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How hard would it be to scour the net for these and match them up to the public keys we have so conveniently handed over?

Pretty easy to get a list of addresses<->people. Then by following transactions you can get many more addresses owned by the same person. It's harder to see how they got coins, or how they spent them, because Bitcoin tries to mix coins around to some degree. Certainly not impossible, though.

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I wonder if perhaps some Chaum-ian blinding scheme might be in order - thoughts?

How do you do this in a decentralized way?
7866  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Android Bitcoin Client Bounty (1740 BTC pledged) on: December 12, 2010, 01:12:44 AM
Easy?  Really?

Yes. If you don't have an Internet connection and the person you're receiving BTC from does, they can double-spend without even modifying the Bitcoin code (by switching out wallets and carefully controlling their Internet connection).
7867  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Generated 0.00 on: December 12, 2010, 01:08:54 AM
The pool mining service just happens to run on the same machine.  But the payment address did not come from the client in question.

And besides, I wouldn't expect the pool mining service to cause any "Generated" message in anyone's client.  Wouldn't it just come in as a regular payment?

It does show up as "generated". I'm sure that you did use an address from that client for pool mining

Did you use an address from that computer for just a few minutes? That would also explain the low amount.
7868  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Android Bitcoin Client Bounty (1740 BTC pledged) on: December 11, 2010, 11:12:01 PM
Is it possible to modify the original client to have a "lightweight" mobile-friendly mode and support for offline transactions? Something to ponder before digging into a new bitcoin implementation.

A lightweight mode is already partially implemented. In this mode, you only need to download a few megabytes instead of the entire block chain.

Offline transactions would make double-spending attacks easy.
7869  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bounty for Bitcoin Animated Movie [13622.05 BTC ($2520) and growing] on: December 11, 2010, 07:44:12 AM
and I heard the guest talking about some of the economists etc that worked on the project- I wonder if there are some names we could drop (with their permission) to help bring confidence that this isn't some scam etc.

Bruce was "exaggerating" about that. Satoshi created nearly everything by himself, and he is known for nothing other than Bitcoin. His professional qualifications are not known.

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No fees required for transactions (free)

This will change in the future. Once people start actively attacking Bitcoin, free transactions will be extremely slow. Fees should always be reasonably low, though.

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more secure encryption system than online banking (Security)

Bitcoin uses no encryption. All of your transactions are transmitted in plaintext. "Cryptography" would be a better word -- Bitcoin uses digital signing and cryptographic hashing.

Whether this is stronger than banks depends on your threat model. If no one will get your wallet.dat, then it's basically impossible for someone to steal your money. But if you want protection from wiretapping, Bitcoin offers you nothing, whereas banks have HTTPS.

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It's as anonymous as you want it to be (privacy)

Unless you're really careful, Bitcoin has poor anonymity. See http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=anonymity
7870  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.3.18 on: December 11, 2010, 12:00:52 AM
For those who wish to remove the restriction on inclusion and relaying of non-standard transactions, here is a patch on 0.3.18 to do so:
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Z0DVga74

It does these things:
- IsStandard is not checked when including transactions or relaying them.
- An older, similar restriction on transactions with an unusual size or number of scriptSig OPs is also removed.
- Non-standard transactions become ineligible for free space. You will not accept non-standard transactions if they don't include at least a fee of 0.01. You will relay such transactions, however.

Generators that apply this patch will potentially receive more fees. However, I doubt anyone will actually produce any non-standard transactions for a while.

You are still Bitcoin-compliant by applying this patch. You will not end up on a separate network (unless Bitcoin is changed to make these restrictions network-enforced).

Edit: Modified version for SVN 200:
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=6aQiEJDz
7871  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin on: December 10, 2010, 12:18:00 AM
Satoshi's idea eliminates the need for BitX. Alternative chains can be made without splitting CPU power.

Our version of BitDNS would never use its own chain, though, because creating domains should not be tied to a proof-of-work, and we therefore have no generation incentive.

120 bytes with an OP_CHECKSIG is enough for our proposal, I think.
7872  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.3.18 on: December 09, 2010, 08:17:19 AM
by default disallow non-standard transactions that exceed 128 bytes (or whatever threshold is agreeable)?

I would be happy with 128 bytes of arbitrary data. But it seems pointless for the official Bitcoin client to attempt to "legislate" any restrictions of this type when all miners have an interest in including any and all fee-carrying transactions. As long as these restrictions exist, miners are incentivized to:
- Remove the restrictions to get more fees
- Connect to as many peers as possible to get a higher chance of catching any non-standard transactions that would be produced, further increasing the load on those few nodes accepting incoming connections.

The restriction on relaying these transactions should be removed, at the very least.
7873  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin on: December 09, 2010, 01:38:56 AM
So what would prevent me from registering the domain jackass.theymos.btc? 

Nothing. But hopefully servers will ignore tricks like that.

How are the miners going to get these transactions?  I don't think the transactions are even being broadcast from one node to the next if they fail to meet the IsStandard() algorithm, but rather they must be put in directly by a miner.

Right. You can send directly to artforz.ath.cx or any of doublec's pool addresses. I will relay non-standard transactions at theymos.ath.cx.
7874  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.3.18 on: December 09, 2010, 12:26:50 AM
ArtForz (15+% of the network), tcatm (2Ghash/s), and doublec (pool maintainer) have stated that they will not use IsStandard. Non-standard transactions will therefore still be possible.

When I have time, I will produce a patch for Bitcoin that will remove all non-network-enforced restrictions on transactions, so that other miners can easily also be configured to include these transactions.
7875  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.3.18 on: December 08, 2010, 11:41:42 PM
At the very least I wish that Satoshi would at least express his view on what he thinks about putting extra data into transactions beyond pure financial data into transactions, and I think this is only going to start an arms race for those who want to play with scripts and those who are trying to keep scripts "pure".  All that has happened here is to simply lay the gauntlet down to get past the "IsStandard()" check and find transactions which can pass that test but still contain other data.

Yeah; it's pretty pointless. Why on Earth would any miner adopt this change, when it means that they will be getting fewer transaction fees due to the lost non-standard transactions?
7876  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin on: December 08, 2010, 11:36:46 PM

It appears this can support several top level domains, such as .anon, .sex, .p2p, or whatever. Other proposals envisioned a single new TLD like .bitdns.

This is like that, too. In this system, you're always registering a TLD. Even if I register "theymos.btc", I'm actually getting "theymos.". For better usability, though, BitDNS servers will make this a second-level domain by attaching a TLD like .bitdns or .btc to the registered name. The TLD in the registration is a suggestion for this: in this case, I'm suggesting that "theymos." be followed by "btc" (though the server is free to ignore my suggestion).

The idea is to allow maximum market adaptability. Probably all servers will just use ".btc" or whatever, and totally ignore the suggested value. As an example of something servers could do:
- If your suggested domain suffix is com/org/etc., then your domain will actually overrule .com domains of the same domain for those few users who have configured BitDNS to do so.
- Otherwise, ".btc" is used.

It's a bad idea to hardcode any TLD into the spec. What if ICANN allocates .btc?

A later version might also look at the entire name+TLD for uniqueness. It might be possible in that case to switch from old-style names to new-style names with namechange.

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As long as they see that the domain name was registered with a large enough transaction fee to the miner, they will pass it through to the DNS. Is it possible that this is what was intended?

Yes. The idea is not to compensate the servers (usually), but to eliminate spam registrations. The BTC is the "proof-of-work".

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The proposal seems to envision a relatively small set of DNS servers that would be authorities for these new domain names and be the ones who bring the names from the block chain into DNS. These would be somewhat analogous to registrars today.

The servers are analogous to DNS root servers. There may also be registrars, which will interface with several BitDNS servers (as current registrars interface with gtld-servers.net, for example).

In other words, this isn't really a distributed or P2P DNS system, or perhaps I'm missing something else here too.  Each "TLD" would have its own central server where you would have to "pay" to get onto that server?

Certainly not. You pay and everyone recognizes you at whatever TLDs they have chosen to see BitDNS domains at.

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Any additional fees being thrown with the "registration" is not going to anybody actually putting effort in terms of running the domain server or doing registrations.

Almost all of the load is carried by the Bitcoin miners, which is why they get most of the money. Some BitDNS servers will provide public lookup services, which demands some payment. I'm thinking that the registrants will pay these to list them, but maybe the people looking up BitDNS domains will pay them instead.

Over 10 years, the theymos/nanotube design might store anywhere between 600 bytes and 120,000 bytes per domain name.

The average Bitcoin transaction size is 216 bytes. Why does anyone care if BitDNS names are worth 3-500 Bitcoin transactions over 10 years? If miners are taking the transactions, then there is no supply problem. If there is a supply problem, then whoever pays more gets space in blocks. This is fair.

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I'm starting to think that an everlasting registration really is the way to go.

Without an expiration, you need to download the entire block chain to get a current DNS database. Domains must expire if you want to allow end-users to run their own server.

It also destroys unique resources. The pricing scheme would have to control the use of these unique resources appropriately, which requires some market mechanism.

7877  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin on: December 08, 2010, 03:28:19 AM
Lastly, and this could be due to my lack of intimate knowledge of DNS, but will this work seamlessly with more secure DNS protocols as well? Also, is this designed to ultimately replace existing registrars or will this always be a "DomainShadow" system that is only used in the event of crisis (like wikileaks attack, etc)?

DNSSEC will work fine. And if you run your own server, you don't need to trust anyone!

I can't see any of this becoming mainstream any time soon. You have to at least change your nameservers, and to get all of the security benefits you have to run a bunch of extra software all the time.

It should scale well, though, if it did go mainstream.
7878  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin on: December 08, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
I guess I'm missing the point of the fee other than as a way to provide an incentive for miners, and to put a little pain on the registrants involved here.

That is the point.

A handful of servers will be public DNS servers running with "authority" over those BitDNS TLDs that they support. To get in one of these, you'll have to pay them directly in addition to the fees that go to whoever generates the block. This can be done with additional outputs, or you can pay on their site in the traditional Bitcoin way. This is where a registrar is especially useful, since they will know all of the current fee requirements of the various servers, and they can pay them all at once automatically.

People who run their own servers will not get a fee like this, but will rely only on the block fee. Configure your server to require the fee that you think is best, and you will see only those domains that have paid that fee or above.

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Is this basically "filtering out spamsites"

Exactly.

What if the consensus is that the Bitcoin network should not be used to support DNS (as I expect)? Then the only alternative is to go forward with a parallel but independent block chain, creating a second currency. Are we ok with that?

Bitcoin already supports it technically, though recently a change was made that causes non-standard transactions such as the ones used by BitDNS to be skipped in blocks created by the official Bitcoin client. However, BitDNS transactions produce quite a lot of fees for generators, so if an implementation is created, I expect it will be easy to get a reasonable percentage of miners to ignore this new rule (only like 5% is really necessary).

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Are you allowing name changes of the main part of the domain? Like elephantfood.bitdns can change to dogfood.bitdns (if it is available)? Or is this disallowed, in which case, exactly which kinds of name changes are allowed?

The left-most part has to stay the same. "theymos.btc" can be changed to "theymos.bc". Everything but the left-most part is advisory: "theymos.btc" can actually appear as "theymos.btcdns". In particular, if someone registers a top-level domain such as "theymos.", most servers will probably map it to "theymos.btc" or something.

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Would anyone who wants be able to run one of these special DNS servers, or do you envision there being relatively few of these?

Anyone can run them. I think the expiry time should be lowered to like 5,000, though, to make it easier to run a server.
7879  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: using synfig for an animated movie on: December 07, 2010, 09:28:23 PM
Looks great!
7880  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: svn r197: IsStandard check for transactions on: December 07, 2010, 09:22:49 PM
This will have the effect of raising the cost of bitcoin transactions for everyone.

Why? If I am interested in hurting the network, I can more easily send some 0.01 transactions and never spend them.

OP_DROP transactions can be ineligible for free space in blocks.
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