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81  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Economics on Yacoin YAC on: November 20, 2013, 03:06:15 PM
1.1 What is a currency:

In my opinion just PoW or PoS rewards alone have fundamental economical flaws that make a crypto with just one of them unuseable as currency. A currency is used to transfer wealth and doesn't necessary have to be a good storage of wealth. As long as it has at least some value and doesn't change that too rapidly it's fine to use for exchanging goods and services.


The USD is still the best currency of the world although it's a terrible storage for wealth. Untill 1968 one troy ounce gold was fixed at 35USD. Todays price was at 1300USD so it has lost 97% of it's value vs gold since then. Considering the great ammounts of paper gold now in existance it's right to say that one USD has almost lost all of it's real value in the last 50 years. Interest on saving accounts make this less dramatic, but saving acc are still very bad in comparison with real investing.

No mather what investment asset you could have bought in 1968 nearly all of them had increased dramatically in value by now. Inflationrates on consumer and investment goods are 2 different things. Official rates (even if they wouldn't be faked) are based exlusively on consumtion goods and so have no meaningful message for savers.


1.2 Supply and Demand:

Changes in supply or demand result in changes of the price. Usually increasing prices also increase production since it is more lucrative to produce now for higher prices than it was before. This mechanism stabilizes prices if production can be adjusted fast enough.

Price bubbles and their burst only occur when production can't be adjusted fast enough. Every market has limitations on adjusting production, but in fiat currencies that is virtually instant and virtually unlimited. That's what makes fiat so convenient.


1.3 Supply of Bitcoins (and any other PoW only coin)
Bitcoin mining will always produce the same amount of bitcoins it's supposed to. More problematic than no adjustment on the production it also the decrease of production over time. In fact coins mined on yesterday are just a very small fraction of coins traded today.

For someone to buy bitcoins someone else has to give some away. Fast increasing prices also increase the prices a seller would accept as minimum price. This leads to many price bubbles and bursts and make it very hard to use as currency. If bitcoin wouldn't be used as currency it would be worthless ...

POS cryptos face the same problem here, but this problem goes to extreme for them. Without new coins mined independently of coins someone already has there is no objective method for price disvovery. This makes them by far more volatil so even more useless as currency. PoS is a better storage for wealth since it doesn't burn that much energy like f.e. bitcoin does.


1.4 Why PoS/PoW hybrids are different:
A PoW coin with increasing blockrewards would be ideal for price discovery, but who would buy into such. Only additional PoS rewards could compensate for the loss. Otherwise every new mined coin would reduce the wealth of all coins already in existance and people wouldn't choose such currency.
82  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Economics on Yacoin YAC on: November 20, 2013, 03:05:09 PM
I didn't want to bload the dev thread on YAC with economics so I post it here. The following are some of my thoughts on YAC and it's economical features and why it could be huge one time. It could also die, but who knows for sure ... Wink

1. First of all "What is Yacoin":

Yacoin is a POW/POS hybrid with 5% interrest per year. Blockrewards for POW depend on the current hashrate of the network. Unlike other cryptos the hashrate depends not only on the miners currently mining. The so called n-factor increases over time and reduces the hashrates of the network. The same GPU will have less kh/s than it had previously. Once 1Mh/s on YAC was equal to 1Mh/s on LTC, but that's not the case anymore.

This thread is about economics, for tec stuff go to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.1400
Free coins can be found f.e. : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336574.0;topicseen

Been away for a while and still holding YAC! Can anyone give me an honest opinion on the future of this coin and how widespread its use currently is?

Thanks

It's damm hard to predict how the future of this coin will be, I don't think anyone can predict it. YAC still has the best economical features of any cryptocurrency (that I'm aware of), but that of course doesn't mean it will succeed. Current use for purchases is somewhat non existent besides small gambling and stuff you can do with almost every other crypto.
I think the chart on coinmarketcap.com speaks for the current adaption of it, but I hope this will change.


The following are some of my thoughts on YAC and economics in general.
83  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC Raffle Giveaway on: November 17, 2013, 09:33:09 PM
YKFBKeZ5ucybHG69FvGNyN46zLZtHCXjBU

Thank you
txt sent.
cf9368ab6d6c3b85878b4ab715d8de20f1bf9f917feaa9567af636fff6566f30
84  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Gimme some YAC on: November 17, 2013, 04:37:57 PM
Gimme some YAC
YHWdoiQG4LL1T7zQiwfjgNLFELPmkYGHw8
H8ZEZH/rJ44ebNdngJ/fq3+wGF8EFFFADrp5CISf5WfH86Dgcccngrk9uw7qlt9pLmg7SHYyX5k6fW7vCt+pr0I=

Thanks a lot.
6th transaction sent:
2c9b90255f1c698add44f052d455a6c1074e93e74e125b2ba86115c4e5b4ec74
85  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: 30,000 IFC giveaway ~ 300 lucky persons welcome! 100 IFC per preson ! on: November 17, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
iKvWn4KwvsEq8GhjXQ4CfxZQoEVByzeWqz

TY
86  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC Raffle Giveaway on: November 17, 2013, 03:01:38 PM
Thanks St.Bit!

I'll give this a go Smiley

YECG9n3ZQCbXZDiy5RjmBuijLDZc8SbuJ2

txt send
fdde685c230040aa42172e8be20713726678a0e1e2e957941a5335821636a336

Good luck.
87  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Gimme some YAC on: November 17, 2013, 02:55:41 PM
RntkddVUzeaNwdH6VEJKtbmX8dAcEmbczT

TQ, gimme some YAC.

You haven't signed the message as required.
No signed message, no coins. For the next correct message I'll even pledge 50YACs, it ain't that hard ...
88  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC Raffle Giveaway on: November 17, 2013, 02:41:49 PM
If I just send them all to the address above, I'll get 50 tickets?
I assume you would only get 49 due to txt fees, but yes.
If you were lucky to win (your odds now would be 3:1!) it will automatically send you the whole pot.

Enjoy.
89  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: YAC Raffle Giveaway on: November 17, 2013, 02:29:47 PM
YDyKSJuWSE9AXse4Cs2zMrzfqr8NQRgxRR

Thanks Smiley

K.

First coins send.
http://yacexplorer.tk/tx/91d5671fd3d458a56c653abd1fd9e6f85d9c08284a2fe0599476b357e3ee5d7f

Hope you won't forget to buy some tickets Smiley
90  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / YAC Raffle Giveaway on: November 17, 2013, 01:54:47 PM
If you want to spend some YACs, you should take a look at:

http://yacexplorer.tk/raffle.html

This is a proveably fair lottery with no house edge run by Sairon. At the moment there are just 100tickets (1YAC each) sold, but more than 1000YAC* in the pool for the winner. Don't miss this chance to play lotto with an edge for yourself!

Adresses to play (send 1YAC for a ticket)
YLuckyhUaDkKWFDGNhCRRkfwZAQgThWzge

The pot consists of ticket sales plus donations to
YD8Noesszn4RJdepB6xzVyxMe2htsdTE7J


Drawing will be held every day at midnight UTC.




If you want some YACs to enter the lottery post your adress below and I will send you some YACs to play with.
Limited to 50YACs for the first 10 entries, 25YACs for the next 10 entries and 5YAC untill I have given away more than 1200YACs.





*)1YAC = 0.0025$, so don't expect to get rich.
91  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [YAC] YACoin GIVEAWAY (3.1415926 YAC each) on: November 17, 2013, 01:29:32 PM
If you don't know what to do with your 3YAC maby this could help:

http://yacexplorer.tk/raffle.html

Buy 3 tickets(1YAC each) and you could win more than 1000YAC today.

To buy a ticket send 1YAC to:
YLuckyhUaDkKWFDGNhCRRkfwZAQgThWzge

The prize pool also consists of the donations on YD8Noesszn4RJdepB6xzVyxMe2htsdTE7J.
That's currently more than 1150YAC for just 100 tickets playing.
You won't find better odds anywhere else.
92  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 17, 2013, 01:10:24 PM
If you want to spend some YACs, you should take a look at:

http://yacexplorer.tk/raffle.html

This is a proveably fair lottery with no house edge run by Sairon. At the moment there are just 100tickets (1YAC each) sold, but more than 1000YAC in the pool for the winner. Don't miss this chance to play lotto with an edge for yourself!

Adresses to play (send 1YAC for a ticket)
YLuckyhUaDkKWFDGNhCRRkfwZAQgThWzge

The pot consists of ticket sales plus donations to
YD8Noesszn4RJdepB6xzVyxMe2htsdTE7J


Drawing will be held every day at midnight UTC.
Don't miss your chance to gamble with an edge and make some YAC!
93  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 17, 2013, 12:59:24 PM
Well, in all fairness, I stepped in to take up development after the "quick buck" phase of YAC was pretty much done.

It seems YACoin has been in good hands with Joe_Bauers and my choice to turn development over to him was probably the best choice for the coin.

-WM

It takes courage to step forward and take over development over an abandoned coin. It's an ungrateful job since somehow people always expect open source deveopers to devote their whole life to software they wouldn't even pay for. No matter how much you could have done alone there would be still people not satisfied and complaining.

I think it takes even more courage to step away once you realized that you couldn't spend the time it would need. A lot of people would rather destroy a project than to admit that they should hand it over to someone else.

My 2 YACs.

94  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 17, 2013, 12:05:07 AM
EDIT: Right now there's one participant with 99 tickets and a 25 YAC bonus to the winner (total reward 124 YAC!). Don't let him win, get some tickets!
LET M... ehm HIM WIN, U BETTER SELL ALL YOUR COINS ON CRYPTSY INSTEAD.
Hehe Cheesy
Only 45 minutes left and still just one participant. The bonus has also raised to 34.95 YAC!
Only 1 day left and still just one participant.The bonus has also raised to 54.95 YAC!
95  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Gimme some YAC on: November 16, 2013, 10:40:03 PM
5th transaction sent.

98035110f289ecb2c7706a01acb243929b2f88bf64436efbd2c304774d7818de

You have to sign the message to get coins here. No valid signature, no coins!


YDXJBiEmcxa2W8L6YJD88mWcAR5siqWVtg
IAlhhssR9le0fVTaiPQJw1cBOfQPu8dFNjM0Jb8gZJ9gvtdqFWMzz5UcusKgH5dzZdJ4JNYlK4V6nJn/18AzK+4=
You didn't actually sign anything. Or better said just an emty message. 15 YAC sent. I'm really surprised that less than 50% of people were capable to sign a simple message of their choice. Nevertheless did I send them 1.01YAC each as reminder.
8c30c9d0f1e85c468062583d7cf07b7109ba4047ccb4280974a4d5f8284f4d74

Take a look at http://yacexplorer.tk/raffle.html if you don't know how to spend your new coins. Odds are actually favouring the player at the moment.
96  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 16, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
EDIT: Right now there's one participant with 99 tickets and a 25 YAC bonus to the winner (total reward 124 YAC!). Don't let him win, get some tickets!
LET M... ehm HIM WIN, U BETTER SELL ALL YOUR COINS ON CRYPTSY INSTEAD.
97  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 15, 2013, 03:08:16 PM
YAC has never been a CPU coin, if there is someone still mining YAC with CPU he is plain STUPID.
...
Not everyone sees mining as a fulltime profession that has to be profitable.

I don't think a CPU on idle is smarter than a CPU mining YAC. Calling someone stupid without considering his circumstances and motivations is just beeing stupid aswell. Mining on CPU can be smart for some and stupid for the others...

Maybe Yacoin was too GPU friendly before, but since GPU miners are dropping out with each N increment, coins are now beginning to be more evenly distributed among plain PC users.
I have extracted daily reports from my account at http://yac.ltcoin.net/ and made a chart of "income" (1 bar = 1 day):
A n-change is an occasion to stop mining ...
Prices in May were by far higher than they are now so your chart has no real significance without taking prices(USD) somehow into consideration. That effect is probably magnitudes stronger than any n-change could possibily have done.


Last N-factor change on September, 30th really made a difference ( source: http://yacexplorer.tk/graphs.htm ):
I really hope so.
CPU POW is a great way to distribute new coins to a lot of different people.
98  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 14, 2013, 05:43:28 PM
OK guys, I still have some YACs, make them be worth 1$ each and I say you're right  Grin
For that huge prices YAC would have to be among the biggest 3 cryptos ...
Remember how many coins will be generated each year and how many are already existing and will POS.

This isn't like PPC where most coins are already owned by someone. PPCoins price depends on what people are willing to sell while YACurrency's depends on what people are willing to buy. That's a huge benefit for something used as currency, but that won't make you soo extreme rich if it get's established like bitcoin has/would.

The dev thread seems to be a bad place to discuss this so maby we should start an "Economics on YAC" thread.
I could write some thoughts on this, but not sure if people interrested. Interrested?
99  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development on: November 12, 2013, 09:34:53 PM
How long did it take for Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Novacoin to 'catch-on.'  I think we sometimes forget the coin is only 6 months old.


EDIT:  I emailed Cryptsy - YAC trading has been resumed.  Smiley

That's something I always tend to forget, but damm these few months were painfull.
Never saw it coming that such a great crypto could loose so fast so much ...
100  Economy / Economics / Re: The Problem With Altcoins on: November 12, 2013, 05:14:02 PM
Bitcoin was clearly designed to fail around 2033 or so when ...

The first problem for us here is what to consider failure to go further.
Or better what we 2 both would consider failure to be precise.

I don't think we would (obvious extremes excluded) agree on fail/win on many outcomes that could happen. Not many people in bitcoin here would agree with me on this either, but I don't arguing to win an argumentation or to change any opinions exept my own.


Myself, and most people outside bitcoin, don't see centralisation and gov controlled fiat as the devil. Once people make their first thoughts about fiat some begin to see just the nasty sides of it, but first impressions aren't always right. Someone smart can also spend his whole life thinking about economics and still get it worse and worse. That's the problem with economics as science, two people can devote their life to it and still won't end at the same viewpoint if they are just equally smart enough.


I like the dept system, fiat and capitalism, although I know their flaws all to well. IMHO they are NOT fundamentally fucked up (like communism is), but there are some parameters you are not supposed to mess with. Unfortunately we can't leave our fingers from exactly these parameters. Printing new money for no rational reason is one of them.

Bitcoin can't be abused by "generate 10MBTC because it's too expensive for exports now" or any other bullshit justification from a few hundred to make them even wealthier by screwing the rest. Miners don't generate new bitcoins, they are allowed to compete for ones already known by the market and exactly when . I think that's too restrictive than necessary, but far better than the current interpretation of fiat by central banks which will destroy USD,EUR,... and the wealth of billions of people.


I see crypto currencies as the first way mankind discoverd to prevent us to change our decisions made on how to handle these parameters. Real changes in a way that actually changes something to a cryptoprotocoll are extreme hard to make and every crypto is more likely to fail than to change. Once a set of rules has been agreed on we are most likely to stick to it since changes here are extreme expensive for an economy. It will be very extreme hard to decide on one valid set of rules to handle these parameters. The last time we faced a similiar decisition was capitalism vs communism. That was damm nasty back then and nearly ended in a draw. Both dead, or better said all dead.

Bitcoin has the first non changeable set of rules we could choose money to be. I belive it's among the most fucked up sets possible and it's (not technical or code whise) implementation sucks, f.e. rewarding early adopters like us all so extreme.


Wow, can't belive I got there just from the quote above.
Sorry for long post in wrong thread, but I don't want to start a new topic.


Btw, if you see a new altcoin that is being attacked with words by those who have a lot invested in Bitcoin, that should be an indication that the new altcoin is very good and a serious threat to Bitcoin. They won't bother to attack it otherwise. They will find all sorts of things to make you afraid to adopt it, such as how immature the implementation is, etc.. And everyone who doesn't adopt it, will be kicking themselves later.
It's wrong to conclude anything from the amount of negative feedback without considering quality of feedback at all.

People bashing altcoins because they are biased ("those who have a lot invested in Bitcoin") should be ignored only, they mislead.
Idiotic or biased feedback is sort of alike, but you wouldn't be whise to do always the oposite of an idiot. He could sometimes be right too.

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