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I think it's still running. He seems to be actively replying to this thread.
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decentralization is not the utilitarian value of Bitcoin, it's a side-effect of its utility, though. No, the utilitarian value of Bitcoin is in everyone having enough to support a market for goods and services (we'll ignore legality of any particular good or service for the moment, but that is important as well). Their value is in if there are people willing to take them for goods and services. If neither condition exists, it doesn't matter if they are decentralized or not, they completely lose their utility and hence, their value.
On the contrary, the decentralization of Bitcoin is what has allowed it to grow and flourish on its own merits (as people come and go in its development, as it's initial founder Satoshi demonstrates themself(/ves) ) and in turn encourage a market to also grow on it's own merits. Were this not the case than other fiat currencies like the USD would have sank on those same merits in the Great Depression of the 1930s (Bullion being the equivalent of Bitcoins in the days before the Internet) as opposed to being what it is today thanks to the Centralization of it by the US <again not Federal> Reserve bank (even outright confiscating Gold to keep demand in place for said currency). Without that value, people would not trust in Bitcoin and it would have died a premature death (or be boxed out by other interests, see the Liberty Dollar as an example of that). TL/DR: To call the Bitcoin community a side-effect is simple ignorance. That isn't what I said at all. I said that decentralization is not Bitcoins main value, it's value from that is a side effect of it's value as a currency that is widely accepted. If it is not widely accepted, irregardless of miners and faucets, it has no value. Maybe I didn't say it clear enough before, but to take anything else away from that is silly and illogical. |
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Presently, it's just that it seems like it's easier for frozen molasses to run uphill in winter than it is to sell a digital product with a bitcoin payment gateway.
CoinDL makes selling or bitcoins and delivering digital goods very easy. It would be if they were actively approving new applications for sellers and affiliates. |
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hey boss, did I do mine wrong?
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decentralization is not the utilitarian value of Bitcoin, it's a side-effect of its utility, though. No, the utilitarian value of Bitcoin is in everyone having enough to support a market for goods and services (we'll ignore legality of any particular good or service for the moment, but that is important as well). Their value is in if there are people willing to take them for goods and services. If neither condition exists, it doesn't matter if they are decentralized or not, they completely lose their utility and hence, their value.
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Thanks chipug for standing with us against the NSA. (:
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Alright. Time to delete all my posts in this thread. It should have died days ago, but now it is getting ridiculous, and I'm tired of getting notified every time someone posts something.
Or you could just unwatch the topic. |
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To be honest, I wouldn't mind having my own ASIC miner, if for nothing else then grins and giggles.
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Just started an ad campaign, bought ~1 million impressions. We will see.
1 million? Sounds like you spend more then the first prize is worth, hehe. Let's just say that I'll be in some deep -EV if I don't win a prize  Here's hoping you at least place, then. (: |
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But, where I live, I take the money and live freely, not being a servant to anyone... so, your statement dosent make much sense...
If you're allowing the banks/government to monitor your purchases of BTC so they can track who has them and where they go just so you can make a few bucks, you're in service to the government. It's also a waste of a perfectly good P2P, decentralized, pseudonymous currency. I don't care if a bitcoin is worth 1 cent if govt/banks keep their greasy mitts off of it. US dudes hate their government so much. Why the hell do you happily run to vote for it every 4 years? I don't hate my government, I hate what it's become. I hate what a minority of people and corporate interests are making it, and I hate that not enough people care to see it changed. I don't hate my government, but I surely do not trust it (nor any others, especially any EU countries). I live no where near the E.U. No one said you did. |
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But, where I live, I take the money and live freely, not being a servant to anyone... so, your statement dosent make much sense...
If you're allowing the banks/government to monitor your purchases of BTC so they can track who has them and where they go just so you can make a few bucks, you're in service to the government. It's also a waste of a perfectly good P2P, decentralized, pseudonymous currency. I don't care if a bitcoin is worth 1 cent if govt/banks keep their greasy mitts off of it. US dudes hate their government so much. Why the hell do you happily run to vote for it every 4 years? I don't hate my government, I hate what it's become. I hate what a minority of people and corporate interests are making it, and I hate that not enough people care to see it changed. I don't hate my government, but I surely do not trust it (nor any others, especially any EU countries). |
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I have lived in over a dozen countries, and visited many more.
The U.S. is one of the least free countries in the world. But, what do I know, it comes from experience, and actually being outside the U.S. looking in.
Really? I'm sorry, but you've got it wrong. |
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But, where I live, I take the money and live freely, not being a servant to anyone... so, your statement dosent make much sense...
If you're allowing the banks/government to monitor your purchases of BTC so they can track who has them and where they go just so you can make a few bucks, you're in service to the government. It's also a waste of a perfectly good P2P, decentralized, pseudonymous currency. I don't care if a bitcoin is worth 1 cent if govt/banks keep their greasy mitts off of it. Like I said, you must live in the U.S. Not all countries hate their government, and not all governments are "Nazi Germany" like the U.S. is. Which one exactly? As far as I know, the US is the most free country. If you want Nazi type countries, go to Europe, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, etc, all those are way more Nazi than the US ever was. They even spy their Internet users looking at supposed extremist websites, this is nothing more than political censorship if you think about it. At least the US does not hide the fact when they are discovered and you would amaze how worst it is in other places. But the point is that its not the government that im afraid with bitcoins, its banks. If banks where controlling bitcoin, they would say who can use them and who canīt, and sending bitcoins, to one place to another would a % of the amount, not to mention micropayments would be impossible like they are today on the Internet. Its impossible to send 1 dollar cent to one part of the world to another. That's what is the big consideration should be. ASIC miners are going to put themselves out of business eventually as the amount of bitcoins is fixed, so once they are all circulating, nothing left to mine. again, though, if banks do that they'll effectively kill off Bitcoin and lose money themselves. It's not in their best interests to mess with BTC in any way. |
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But, where I live, I take the money and live freely, not being a servant to anyone... so, your statement dosent make much sense...
If you're allowing the banks/government to monitor your purchases of BTC so they can track who has them and where they go just so you can make a few bucks, you're in service to the government. It's also a waste of a perfectly good P2P, decentralized, pseudonymous currency. I don't care if a bitcoin is worth 1 cent if govt/banks keep their greasy mitts off of it. Like I said, you must live in the U.S. Not all countries hate their government, and not all governments are "Nazi Germany" like the U.S. is. I don't know where you live, but I bet you see rainbows and unicorns on a daily basis, don't ya? Every. Last. Government. That's how many spy on their own people. Some are just better at hiding it. |
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Well honestly, would you rather : Better a free pauper than a rich servant. YMMV. I wish I could +1 your post. |
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A couple of things. First of all, ASIC's are shipping out. Butterfly Labs is irrelevant because they made themselves irrelevant. Avalon and others have already shipped. Secondly, the Winklevoss twins aren't irrelevant to this discussion. If BTC trading takes off on NASDAQ it still becomes unprofitable to keep BTC in so few wallets. Without the utility of Bitcoin, there is no value in Bitcoin. It's that simple. If you don't think so, look at fiat currencies. Virtually worthless on their own, but because each fiat currency is legal tender in it's region of dominance (in other words, it has utility) it has value. Finally, if BTC gets to be like regular currency (as seems to be the suggestion in BitCoin Magazine in this article), then yes, it will be useless to those who saw it as a way to move away from prying eyes. Our financial affairs are our own. The government has no business in them. This will make the issue of ASICs even more irrelevant if this idea flourishes. |
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I kind of have to agree with you on that, ASIC miners will eventually completely out-perform Joe Miner just doing it for whatever reason (personally I'd like to make some BTC but can't because my rig would explode). It won't kill BTC, and it certainly won't centralize it. It's worth is in its utility and if it's holed up in only 2-3 wallets, it has no utility at all thus no worth. It's in everyone's best interests to use BTC more and more, otherwise the scenario you speak of will happen (with few wallets holding most of the coin). On the other hand, having many competing cryptocurrencies would also help keep BTC from becoming irrelevant.
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