roughly 1400 people have to have their client running at the same time. That's like waiting for some special stellar constellation  Not to mention that a huge chunk of stakeholders only drop by once a month so it would have to be at least 1 month after the announcement which even if the announcement was made right now would be later than what we hope to be launch. Not running at the same time. Launching it one day before and leaving it working. Why you can't postpone the launch a little?I think there are about 500 people that would kill us if we postponed because of anything other than technical reasons. If people were like "Well that's worth it let's postpone for that" then I'd personally consider it (no idea what the rest thinks) but I don't think that's the case at all. |
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That would basically be another round of redemption and that takes months. I don't think we have the time for that. You could have suggested that half a year ago The proposed method doesn't need months. Majority of nemsters are waiting for the launch, so they will read an announcement and install the software. The rest will take a week. Why do you think about months here? roughly 1400 people have to have their client running at the same time. That's like waiting for some special stellar constellation Not to mention that a huge chunk of stakeholders only drop by once a month so it would have to be at least 1 month after the announcement which even if the announcement was made right now would be later than what we hope to be launch. |
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When the distribution is complete and I have my NEM.
Is the Private key I own right now the most important access to it?
So, there is no way I can lose it when my laptop crashes or something.
AFTER LAUNCH: Ideally you should remove all traces of that private key in cleartext after you've imported it into a password protected wallet. After that your wallet is the most important thing and you should have multiple backups of it on different drives. All NEM wallets are encrypted and password protected by default which is why it's a much safer way to keep your private key than to have the cleartext lying around. |
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What exactly do you have in mind ? What would that look like ?
Everyone who controls private keys to a set of stakes that need to be investigated (excluding those from Nxt AE I think) launches NEM wallet and leave it open. At some moment (triggered by Bitcoin block N, data can be gotten from Blockchain.Info easily) all the wallets start solving cryptographical puzzles depending on Bitcoin block hash and NEM account id. In 15 minutes these puzzles are sent to a server controlled by NEM devs and the hash of received puzzles is published and copied by a lot of people who have to wait these 15 minutes. After that we can make a good assessment how many computers "controlled" by a particular NEM stake and we can verify the puzzles because their hash is publicly known. Someone owning 100 stakes have to find 100 computers. That would basically be another round of redemption and that takes months. I don't think we have the time for that. You could have suggested that half a year ago |
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We don't want to publish a list of names because of privacy reasons.
I can compile a chart of the registration dates, ranks, and post counts of NEM stakeholders. Or do you have other suggestions?
At this point, I'm fairly comfortable that there are no major sockmasters.
Is there time to do an extra round of sockpuppet hunt that would affect a potential insider?Look at the situation from point of view of a guy from outside: Mr.X owns 100 sockpuppet stakes. He does a great analysis and finds 400 sockpuppet stakes belonging to someone else. He comes to NEM devs and shows the analysis that reveals only those stakes that are not controlled by him. NEM devs get rid of those 400 sockpuppets. NEM devs are happy = they removed 400 rogue stakes. Mr.X is happy = he has 100 his stakes safe (noone will do an extra round after such the great analysis). Some guys who know double agent tricks are not happy. What exactly do you have in mind ? What would that look like ? |
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May I ask where you sudden interrest in NEM comes from ?
Don't get me wrong, I welcome it but i don't think I've seen you in this thread before last week and now you're quite active in this thread.
Before last week everything was going pretty smoothly, there was only 1 red flag (absence of PoI tech details). But suddenly more red flags popped up. Time before the launch is the only opportunity to find out real motives behind NEM devs deeds, after the launch you could just say "Sorry, it's too late to change anything". PS: Do you ask because my questions make you feel uncomfortable? I ask because I wanted to know. You're asking questions in a zivilized and rational manner. Nothing that makes me feel uncomfortable at all. |
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In this case, post count is a fair approximation for a proof of work There is a big difference between real PoW and your "PoW". The latter can't be verified and statement "NEM devs excluded part of the participants to avoid dilution of their own stake" still remains. People who have only 1 post in the past year are not likely to be real people. And if they are, then they are even less likely to be able to contribute anything to NEM.
Does this mean that it's you who decides if someone deserves a stake? May I ask where you sudden interrest in NEM comes from ? Don't get me wrong, I welcome it but i don't think I've seen you in this thread before last week and now you're quite active in this thread. |
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PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM JUST YET. WE'RE DISCUSSING THE MATTER INTERNALLY AND WILL ANNOUNCE HOW WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED SOON ENOUGH. FOR NOW IT'S POINTLESS TO CONTACT ME
And what the fuck is wrong with you for threatning us with legal actions? We working our asses of for a year and this is what we get?
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Are the 4000 stakes being reduced inline with the number of socks taken out? Or do the devs/marketing/bounties etc. just keep more of the stakes (2433.5/4000)?
Just me being ignored then  The latter. And you can believe that everyone involved hates the fuck out of that. wait a minute, your saying that the developers will be holding 60% of total NEM?  They will be holding whatever is left after extended redemption. Emphasis is on holding. They don't own it and in fact it's all going to be in funds that have a specific purpose. A huge chunk will be in a community led fund and of course it will also be used to ditribute NEM further through bounties and what not. I don't like it either but it's not like there was much of a choice. And plz don't say we should have burned it. |
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Are the 4000 stakes being reduced inline with the number of socks taken out? Or do the devs/marketing/bounties etc. just keep more of the stakes (2433.5/4000)?
Just me being ignored then The latter. And you can believe that everyone involved hates the fuck out of that. |
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I think we are being ignored mrvegad. I don't see the point of that post. You ask the question and then you post the thread were the answer is being discussed ? |
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Alright I'll be off for a while. I'm not hiding just can't sit here 24h.
I'll address as many question as possible tomorrow allthough I'm sure others will be around to answer many of them.
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People were allowed to have 2 stakes and if someone have 20stakes he should be kicked out, its simple as that.
That restriction was lifted, I checked before buying multiple stakes on Nxt AE. i am not talking about AE, it was before that when NEM first launched. No one was allowed to claim NEM stake from more than 2 BTT accounts. Incorrect. When I registered it was allowed to claim stakes for family and friends. so it was allowed to claim stake for mother,brother,sister,grandma,dogs,cats etc ? as far i know it was allowed to have just two stakes, can someone from Devs confirm this? no.. one stake for yourself. and one for a family member. total 2 stakes max. that was always the rules. Oh got it, if someone is "claiming" multiple stakes for a friend, that's BS. I'm helping them to claim it. They are non techies. I'm glad I used their PC's so I can probably prove that they are not puppets. IF they are on the list ofcourse. Very curious. If you have used their PCs they shouldn't have been on the list in the first place. Pretty sure you'll get your stake during extended period if the data confirm that (not a promise just an assumption). |
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People were allowed to have 2 stakes and if someone have 20stakes he should be kicked out, its simple as that.
That restriction was lifted, I checked before buying multiple stakes on Nxt AE. i am not talking about AE, it was before that when NEM first launched. No one was allowed to claim NEM stake from more than 2 BTT accounts. Incorrect. When I registered it was allowed to claim stakes for family and friends. so it was allowed to claim stake for mother,brother,sister,grandma,dogs,cats etc ? as far i know it was allowed to have just two stakes, can someone from Devs confirm this? 2 stakes per btt account. No 1 stake for each family member. |
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I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ?
"Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?"
"Yes, please kick us all"
Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming.
This! Please, at least TRY to understand this. The socks HAD TO think the stakeholder list was final, otherwise they would have been really careful with further steps.  I really understand this. The thing that the process was kept secret from as many as possible is the only way to do it. But something is wrong with the account analyze because my address is on the list. I didn't know that it is a requirement to post frequently. I just wanted to invest to something I believed and follow the progress. I didn't know that you have to register months before NEM was announced to be credible investor. I just have this one account just for following NEM, so in other words, just this thread. I just wanted be part of something game changing. I'll try to make my case after launch. I'm just dissapointed that I can't be there working for the economy when it really begins. Other than this, great work all the devs and active nemsters. NEM is amazing. Few posts and registering after a certain date or whatever can NOT get you kicked. These data were only taken into account to avoid legit people being kicked. So while acitivity can save you (because it just make you look more legit) lack of activity can not get you kicked. |
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I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".
Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead.
It's not what NEM did. But how they did it. In silence. Anonymous. Not transparent. Bad timing etc. Ofcourse it's good that a puppet with 200 accounts get deleted. But like I said; not the result, but the road to it is really wrong. I can't say I wholeheartedly dissagree but I will say that we're doing the best we can with the best intentions in mind. |
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I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off.
So the whole core team did nothing to involve the community because they were afraid of their reaction? Thats's the point? So the better choice is to ignore them, i got it. Thats centralized as hell and has absolutely nothing to do with freedom and other principles NEM stands for. I think you got that wrong. We didn't want the socks to know. If I was afraid of the communities reaction i wouldn't have published those results (well tbh I was reluctant). |
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I'll go a ahead and say that the biggest found cluster consisted of over 200 accounts.
Now imagine someone comes to you with plausible data that indicate such clusters ? What would you have done ?
I'm pretty sure noone would have said "Well we said we wouldn't do another investigation. So no, let em have it".
Regarding the question of whom to contact - Just contact me. Prefferably only with questions but sure if you need to blow of some steam go ahead.
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I guess the name of the person conducting the investigation will be kept a secret. I'm not going to give away that name.
1) Who gave the assignment to mr.x? 2) You know the name so you're involved? 3) When was mr.x hired? I didn't see any post about that here or on the official forum. And now you combine: There is no central authority.
Thats REALLY bad at all. And with actions like this NEM loses a lot of reliability. I am awaiting your answer, thank you. 1) mr. himself did. He's one of those people that just do things instead of just talking 2) I knew about it and I posted the results. That's pretty much all my involvement. 3) See 1). Can't tell you a date as I have no idea when exactly he started. He showed everyone the data. They were showing some extreme clusters which caused another round of removal. Noone was hired, No money was spent. Hope that answers your questions. So Mr.X came - showed - and there was the final decission. Community involvement zero. Very transparent. I'm sorry but what would that have looked like ? "Hello all you sockpuppets. Shall we kick sockpuppet?" "Yes, please kick us all" Also the sockmasters were getting lazier during the 2nd round and we needed them to be unaware so they wouldn't start to cover their tracks when redeeming. I get where you're coming from but in all honest I don't know how we should have included the whole community without tipping everyone off. The final list was final. There are way enough posts on the official forum. Community decided also - no more investigation. Another question; "...He showed everyone the data..." Who is everyone? As is said, i didnt see anything. everyone in this case is core team + me. He is an active nemster so he might have showed more people. I can't be sure about that. Appearantly not many though. |
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